^ Grave robbing is a crime. Memory problems affect a lot of people. Me included (short term memory that is. My long term memory is unaffected). Fyr, My computer won't let me access the link.

LoL @ Heroine. Hardly, Sharmarkee. It's nothing but light joshing. ZU/Khayr/AF... :cool: :cool: PUCCA, there it is again, the urge to stomp! Must...Resist... Qurux, lol..no comment.

I don't really care where I will be in 15 years time.

Baashi, That's more than clear, thank you. In terms of Islamic condoning of circumcision, I have not read any hadith that specifies female 'sunnah' circumcision to be compulsory. Femme, interesting link.

Originally posted by Baashi: quote: In Conclusion, Gudidda as done in Somalia should be banned, no girl should go through that life threatening ritual , if on the other hand a consensus is reached by a competent Medical Professionals and Religious Scholars of the safety of a Sunnah compliant Gudid surgery , that will help a minor cope with sexual pressure without compromising her marital sentiments, then I am emboldened more than ever to say that I am all for it, and I stand by my statement until proven wrong. Crystal clear. This clarification should be on the record. I'm sure almost all of the readers who objected the Gudnin as we know it in Somalia (phroanic custom where female genitals are disfigured) can find this paragraph acceptable. On this score I do agree with you. Hi Baashe, could you please clarify what you find acceptable? I know there is a significant difference between Somali Female infibulation and the 'Sunnah' circumcision some people advocate. When you say 'acceptable', do mean that the 'sunnah' circumcision is acceptable, or the concept that either type of circumcision will prevent pre-marital sexual shenanigans? Female circumcision in all it's forms will never be acceptable to me. But I recognise that the Sunnah version is more palatable. However, the topic isn't about which type of circumcision is more palatable, it is about whether circumcision will prevent abortions or not. So, could you clarify which point it is you agree with? Khayr, Yes. It was designed to show the flaw in that type of thought process.

^ I thought the 'cowboyish' aspect of Firefly was its charm! I mean, how incongruous that they are in the future and far from earth yet they wouldn't look amiss strolling out of a Texan tavern in the 1800s. I enjoyed Serenity. It carried on from where Firefly left off, explained certain things a bit more and tried to wrap it up nicely at the end. It was a little long in some places, a little over the top in others, but they did well overall. It was just like watching a longer version of a new episode. River Tam's tale took precedence and as always, she was a revelation. I was a little disappointed in the climax of the story. But revealing anything more would be spoiling the film for you. I definitely enjoyed it, simply because it gave me another chance to watch the crew at their best. I really missed the show since it was cancelled. What's the likelihood that it will be recommissioned now that they have gone all holywood on us? Go and see it. Muhammed, You completely forgot that you had already registered once before? LoL.

Originally posted by Mutakalim: The whole argument is predicated on two unsubstantiated assumptions and premises, viz., there is a correlation between abortions and circumcsion, and the female is the cardinal culprit in these matters. There it is. Nur, No one promoted you to the post of papacy. You appointed yourself as an authority on Religious matters through your Enuri articles and mission. You can't blame the members of this site who not only look up at you, but who also take everything you say for granted for you are the one who actively encouraged and built that trust. The crux of your argument is that FGM can be used to cure abortions, is it not? You are under the impression that if a young girl is circumcised she will not be engaging in sexual activies before marriage. Ergo Female Circumcision is the cure to this particular social problem. Following this thought process, one can argue that FGM is a potential panacea for every social ill we are likely to encounter. And why not? If it is a cure for something like abortions which it has no links with, then why not other issues? Could not FGM stop so many of our younger men committing petty crimes? Could it not prevent them from going to jail at such young ages and completely destroying their lives and future? Could it not force irresponsible and absentee fathers to look after their families and raise their children? Could it not even stop young Somali children underperforming in schools? So what if FGM plays no part in any of these scenarios? If it can work for abortions, why not every other problem we have? After all, women are the crux of every ill, are they not? Ideas can be discussed, but they have to have elements worth discussing. Abortion is a diabolical thing. We hate it. It is murder. FGM is as diabolical. It means mutilation and life-long suffering for a woman (I would also like to point out that male and female circumcision are not even close to being similar. Female circumcision is so much more dangerous to a woman's health that it is not even comparable. I point it out because you mentioned your own 'genital mutilation' at a young age. You could hardly term male circumcision as 'mutilation' since the organ is left completely intact. Perhaps if they took off half of it, it may begin to be classed as 'mutilation'). How does one go about linking female circumcision to what drives a young woman to engage in sex or have an abortion? How does one think that removing a woman's genital parts will stop said woman from contemplating killing her unborn child? How are the two related? What effect could the lack of that particular part, have on the thinking of somebody who is so confused, or so uncaring that they would actually take the life of their unborn baby? Abortion needs solutions and so does FGM. But one can not be a solution to the other. They are two entirely different problems. So, as far as I am concerned, you have no point. Your argument is invalid. I am willing to discuss the issue of abortions and fornication, but not the idea that FGM is the cure. That is not worth a discussion to me. But perhaps other people feel differently. Ramadan Kariim. Quruxley, You have hit on probably one of the only few measures that can make a difference to the problem of pre-marital sex and subsequent abortions. So many people have already mentioned it as an important solution. But it is easily overlooked because it places such heavy blame on parents (and therefore fathers). If they are not doing their jobs, who will do it for them? If all they contribute to their daughters and sons is the attitude of 'ceeb, waxaa lagama hadlo' or physical abuse, then what good are they? But that is the critical issue within the Somali community. For many mothers, parenting is just feeding, clothing and providing a shelter for their children, and I know that's hard enough, but there is more to raising strong, responsible and morally astute children than that (also how are they to know any differently when they were raised like that as well? When they were not educated?). For a significant number of the fathers, parenting begins and ends with impregnating the woman. But why tackle those issues? Why pursue such difficult solutions as educating a whole society, when you can just mutilate young girls? Why try to get to the heart of the problem when cosmetic surgery would be so much easier to dish out? What I am reading here is an attitude of 'as long as the solution directly affects only one gender, and as long I'm not that gender, then by heck, why not?'. Educating today's girls/boys, will mean that tomorrow's parents are well equiped to educate their children. I must also say that the amount of clear-thinking, educated and socially-aware people on this site makes me think that it is doable. Perhaps things are not as black as they look?

^ I am really starting to like you, Rachel.

^ Ohoho...ROTFLMAO! 16 Days, G...not 16 hours. Castro is on a sabbatical until the end of Ramadan. You can give him the microscope when he gets back. Well, aren't you all a bunch of sweeties...implying that I am an octogenarian as well as a post wh0re. :mad: I will have you know that I have been providing a critical public service during my time on SOL. No single faarax has gotten away with insulting, degrading or misinforming women since my arrival. I have done so much whipping, that my leather strap is in tatters! All you little xaliimos should be grateful to me. I spent the last three years protecting you! Ciyaar mooda caano boodhaha. :rolleyes: On to more cheery matters.. Naku penda...over my dead body is Mark Morrison going to be played. Over my DEAD body! :mad: Ducaqabe, thank you. Caqday? Midh aan hore u maqlay maaha. What does it mean? Qurux, Super heavyweight on Snet, were you? Gabadh, that's really scary! :eek: Khaalid, hello. Haven't seen hide nor hair of you for a good while. There's no secret, I have a habit of posting nonstop when am procrastinating or bored. PUCCA, every time I see that little ugly girl in your avatar, I feel like donning my platform Doc Martens and stomping all over her and you. But thanks.

^ Congrats! Beware the morally reckless ones tho. It is said they have yellow eyes and furry tails! *Shivers*

I saw Joss Wheddon's SERENITY the other day. Loved it (possibly because I was already a fan of the TV series). Tony Scott's DOMINO also looks good. I'm hoping to catch it sometime this weekend I'A. Originally posted by Salahuddin: I just discovered I'm actually one of the oldest members of SOL. lol whoa - M u h a m m a d So, what happened? Did you lose ur password and then re-register a year later? And do you know that having two user accounts is, erm, against the rules?

Are you still upset about my post-count? Waxba ha warwarin, I'm sure you'll reach my level one day.

^ Ah...I forgot how nice you could be sometimes ( ). Mucho mucho thanks, but I don't want to see you posting on here before July 2006 (I'A), do you hear? I want to see a First-Class degree, Athena. Nothing less will do. Best luck with the FYP. Mac mac. :cool: Rahima, Oh, you mean the Cubano? It was love at first post for me as well. LST, Barwaaqo is in the witness protection program. I don't know how easy it will be to dig her up. SKY, Thanks. Consider them brushed off.

LoL Rahima...do you think? How is it you have held this from me for so long? Don't you know it could endanger my life?! :mad: Spill it. Sheh

I know someone who needs to quit. Good luck Liiban. Smoking is a notoriously difficult habit to quit. But it needn't be hell with Nicottinell. I think I may have just committed copyright infringement.

Yeah, I can see this is a real Somali party. Just as things are getting into the swing, someone poops on the dance floor. *Shrugs* Well, at least all my favourite people are present and accounted for. Brown, my gallant knight, thank you for your effort. I think it is sad that Alle-Ubaahne doesn't appreciate shining beacons of womanhood. After all that's what I am. What can you do, eh? *Sigh* Foxy, Thank you my love. STOIC, Ramadan kareem to you as well. Castro, No way are you going near those nuts! I forbid it. You might catch something! And then where would I be without you? *Shudders* Baashi, What, you still don't like Aeronwen? I mean...how many times have I changed nicks, and you've never liked ANY of them! What's so special about barwaaqo anyway? Thanks for the kind words. I will give some consideration to dragging her back. UD, Castro, here's a napkin...you have some brown stuff on your nose. Recognise the smell, do you? Caano Geel, I hope your afro catches on fire. Rahima...mucho gracias. Oh and I want to apologise to the first lot who arrived at the party. I'm sorry I was in a such a horrid mood. But I feel better now. So thanks to Femme, MMA, Qurux, Sheh, Liiban, Muhammed and NGONGE. And of course Waterfall as well (altho I hate her for inviting the pooper) . I'm indeed loved. But I know that's only because I am so lovable.

NG, um...exactly where did you get that cake from? I don't like preservative-laden, supermarket-bought cakes. I dont know why the Watery-One put u in charge of the food. It is not like you are acquainted with kitchens. Now, if you want to do me right, you'll order a freshly-made Almond and Cream cake from one of those exclusive French bakeries in Central London. Libaan, Yes, you are right. That's not a strong enough thanks. I think I can do a better job with a blow-torch. Iyara sug intaan soo raadinayo. Muhammed, faraskaygii weli 12 talaabo ma qaadin. Faras, aa? Seems more like a lame donkey than a 'faras'. Waterfall, Nay, you lie. I'm far too important to be moved. The curator and I are close allies. Alle-Ubaahne, Sii carar intaanay dooni kaa tagin. The destination is Guantánamo Bay. I think you'll enjoy the solitude and cago-garaac. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: No wonder with all these diseases, starvation, war, drought, poverty, expired medicines sold at markets, lack of clean water and other calamities, neverthelees, we are still a nation that grows, the nation as recently as 2002 being rated having the highest birth rate. Highest birth rate, yes. Somalia also has one of the highest infant mortality rate. A significant number of those children never make it to their 5th birthday let alone adulthood. Divine checks and balances. You'll find that countries with high infant mortality rates also have correspondingly high birth rates. What else can mothers do to ensure their children's survival? Have as many as possible and see how many make it to adulthood, I guess. Heartbreaking.

Heh. This is just another underhanded attempt to brand me as old. I won't fall for it, you hear? You can all take your congrats and superlatives and rightly stuff it up where the sun refuses to shine. *Shakes fist* Oh and Alle-Ubaahne, I have no doubt that your post count would have surpassed mine a long while ago had you no had your two previous usernames banned. I think they call it Infestation Control.

Are you going to kill the unborn for the crime of your daughter? what a justice,(In Christiany we have a God who kills his only son so he can forgive sinners, here we have somoene who wants to kill an innocent unborn for the crime of her deviant teen girl), and if you are not capable instilling Islamic values in your daughter, wouldnt it be better to send heroff to kurtunwaarrey (ood ku soo gudid) to reduce her appetite? after all, both choices are bad and unIslamic, but, the lesser evil is (in la gudo)? OK, I am not suggesting this as a practice, but a its a better choice than coat hangers, or loss of faith and a teen running to the streets after an abortion to become " Cheap n Clean" street worker. How many other kids have we lost to haggling over how to best face this issue, while kids are fighting hormones ( I think they get it from Kentucky Fried Chicken growth hormones) in an omnipresense of sexual advertisments all over the place? From ancients such as the Pharoahs of Egypt, female circumsition was seen as a way of controlling female sexual drives, the europeans used to have chastity belts, the assumption was by taking away part of her sensuality, she would easily fend off advances of men, men were not seen as the culprits, just women. However, when it comes the trade offs, one must seriously consider the unthinkable ( at least for foreign raised geel Jirto) that (Gudidda), at times may be preferable to serious aftermaths such as a runaway kid and abortion, just see your own mom, she is likely (waa la guday) and she brought you up the way you are, thats is the worse case and i do not condone the practice when we have a working system, unfortunately, we dont, thus the need to prioritize options, to select the best of the worst of two choices. You are mistaken, Nur. Female cirumcision is as unIslamic as abortion. To kill or to mutilate...neither is a feasible or a logical solution. It is staggeringly irresponsible to imply that circumcision is the cure. The fundamental flaw in your argument/view/opinion is the fact that a very high percentage of Somali girls are ALREADY circumcised, even those born in the last two decades outside of Somalia, and yet that has not proved a deterrent to pre-marital sex OR abortions. I'm also unclear as to what circumcision, or lack thereof, has to do with runaways. How does it prevent young people from running away? What role if any does/would it play in family dynamics/politics (which is often behind why young people run away from their homes and families)? As Somalis, I thought the ONE thing we had FINALLY come to understand was that female circumcision in no way prevents ANYONE from having sex. What it does is affect a woman's fertility, her menstrual cycle and her ability to give birth naturally and safely (do you have any idea how many Somali women undergo C-Section everyday because they cannot give birth naturally due to complications brought about by circumcision? ). Simply put, circumcision will only cause the next generations of mothers to suffer from the same severe gyno-health problems as the previous generations. Promiscuity, abortions, runaways...all societal ills. They need societal solutions, not biological interference with women. I cannot express just how dumbfounded I feel that somebody who comes across not just as intelligent but also highly knowledgable about matters of religion would pen down something so gravely and grossly misleading as your post. In light of all we know about human behaviour and sexuality, in light of all the research out there, how can one still come to the conclusion that circumcision is the answer to young girls having abortions? I'm at a loss. How does one join the dots? Subxaan Allah.

Interesting articles, NG. I was talking about this with someone yesterday. Having been off from work since the beginning of Ramadan (today is my first day back at the office and it sucks), I have been on sole cooking and food-shopping duty for the last two weeks. Would you believe it that the larger Tesco supermarkets now sell Halal meat as well as huge packs of dates during the month of Ramadan? Not only that, but they also stock big, fresh bunches of coriander leaves (like u would get in local markets) when all you could get before were packets of four puny leaves originating from Israel. And why not? A huge number of Muslims live in London and it wouldn't hurt big chains to start catering for them. Yet at the same time, increased competition from the larger superstores would drive all the little Muslim Butchers/grocery shops out of the market. What to do? Support your small local shops or settle for the convenience of getting ALL your shopping from one place?

Originally posted by Sky: Aeronwen, actually your opinion is very valuable to me. I am a jerk sometimes, but consider it an emotional handicap and feel sorry for me. Sure. They cure emotional handicaps these days, u know. In case you want to have it seen to.

LoL. Definitely because I love myself. :cool:

Congrats and wlc to nomadhood.

Originally posted by Taqwa: If you find a post or a reply where I personally started a quarrel with you regarding a reply you made or a thread you posted I will leave SOL permanently. Deal? IF you don't find anything then I suggest you don't respond to me during my stay in this forum. No better way to settle this. Start your search. Yes, I can see just how much you dislike muranka iyo sheekada dumarka. I'm trying to figure out when I gave you the impression that I care about your comings or goings. Leave permanently or set up house here, it matters little to me. But I am curious about something. Scroll back up to page 3 and tell me cidaad qudbada u jeedineysay in your first post? Who else, other than me and Athena, was giving Alle-Ubaahne a hard time over his habaar? Ma cirkaad la hadleysay, mise Casper the Friendly Ghost? Your problem Taqwa, is you don't have the decency to address people directly. Waxaad jeceshay inaad ku dhagahadasho. Such a petty tactic isn't going to save you from my whip, I am afraid. Uh uh. Now, as much as I enjoy poking fun at you, I don't fancy breaking out in a rash. Waad fasaxantahay. I might say hello again in 6 months' time, Allah Willing. Ramadan kariim.