Hmm...surprisingly interesting things in the archives. Who knew? Insomnia is a mutha f***** as Afro would say.

4. i know that Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings -- Aint that the truth. I can't believe the amount of useless meetings I'm forced to take part in each week. Rudy, I like your attitude, but what if you get laid off? Wait and see ayaan ku odhan lahaa (those Swiss peeps ma naxaan).

^ No, am not joking. JL, LoL..exactly. You are always supposed to be aware of your surroundings when out and about. Memorizing features and clothes is a good idea as well, but even if I try, I am sure I won't be able to recall much due to my terrible short-term memory. Infinite, I suppose some people just don't understand 'personal space'. Ibtisam, Good luck, luv. Bishaaro, Never hurts to have some protection.

Sound advice, FF. It is also recommended that you keep the equivalent of at least 3 months pay in an easy-access savings account for those rainy days. I have always been rather pathetic when it comes to money. I either don't have any, or I spend whatever comes in. Savings? Rainy days? 'Will they pay for pretty shoes?' Steady on... I have been forced to start thinking of the future though (I want my shoe-purchasing power to stay strong) and have been attempting to put my finances in order. Budgets, Spending Schedules and monitoring forms have all been devised and monthly standing orders have been set up for extra loan repayments and regular saving...suffice to say, I have been a very good girl. But the most difficult bit is of course still to come - sustaining this good habit. As I have never been one for rigid discipline, it's going to be a mighty struggle to keep up the good fight (and stay away from the shops) which will need to last into 2006 and beyond, Insha'Allah. Oi, to those madly irresponsible people advocating pissing-off-to-Somalia-with-a-mountain-of-debt-and-your-tail-between-your-legs: what on earth is wrong with you? It's an Islamic requirement that you pay off your debts! It would be tragic to die while you're in debt (it will fall on your family to pay it then), and as Kat mentioned, you can't make the pilgrimage to Hajj while you're still in debt. Is it any wonder that Mortgage means 'Grip of Death' in latin?

Xiin, I think you have made a valiant effort, but I'm afraid your evidence would not apply to this case as it's out of context. As I have stated numerous times the premise of my argument hinges on the verity of that the jalbaab is a form of Hijaab. Hence , if you mock it you’re actually mocking at the Hijaab Jilbaab is a form of hijab, yes. However, the 'hence' is from YOU and how YOU see it. My argument is that mocking the jilbaab is NOT mocking the hijab, because the Jilbaab is only a subset of the hijab. If u negate it, you are not negating the whole concept of hijab. Do you see where I'm coming from? The premise of your entire argument is misleading. Since Hijaab is an act of worship and a symbol of obedience of Allah, mocking it, it follows, is tantamount to a Mockery of Allah and His verses This again is your own deduction. The proof you provided doesn’t justify the main point. It only justifies the conclusion you arrived at on your own. Secondly, mocking somebody because they choose to be Muslims cannot compare in any way, shape or form to mocking a ‘style’ of hijab! My God. I’m not making a case for the mocking of the jilbaab or for that matter any application of Allah’s laws. However, I do believe that people should not be accused of something they are clearly not guilty off (i.e. being sacrilegious, in this case). Nothing more and nothing less. The wicked laugh at the righteous in this world in many ways: (1) They inwardly laugh at their Faith, because they feel themselves so superior. (2) In public places, when the righteous pass, they wink at each other and insult them. (3) In their own houses they run them down. (4) Whenever and wherever they see them, they reproach them with being fools who have lost their way, when the boot is really on the other leg. In the Hereafter all these tricks and falsehoods will be shown for what they are, and the tables will be reversed. But the wicked critics of the Righteous have no call in any case to sit in judgment over them. Who set them as Keepers or guardians over the Righteous? Let them look to their own condition and future first. Just one more thing, Xiin, do you believe any of those who have taken part in this discussion so far are guilty of the above? Surely not! I think it is about time I departed from this thread. Eid mubarak!

Ciid wacan oo wanaagsan. :cool:

Look at you sad tossers. I'm sure the guy had his 'special night' by now. I am rather interested in the details. Did Jawaazay score by any chance? Socod Badne, OMG. You weren't kidding about liking chinese music, were you? How...interesting.

MMA, I already told them it isn't you. It doesn't even look like you! *Ahem*

^ I kinda do the same on trains, i.e. check other people's wrists for the time. But I never ask, and I never tell. Ibtisam, Procrastination is becoming epidemic ma istidhi? My sister and friend are doing their dissertations too and both would rather keep themselves busy doing everything but their work. So, should I ask how many words you have written so far?

Ducaqabe, WoW. The misinformation in here is proving lethal. Walaalo, the Salah and Zakat together with the Shahada, Saum and Hajj are the foundations of Islam. “They are the framework of the Muslim life: faith, prayer, concern for the needy, self-purification, and the pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.†The hijab in contrast is a mere dress code (as well as an attitude to some). So, in a manner of speaking, the Hijab is the last lick of paint on the wall after the foundations have been laid and the construction completed. Ergo, they don't compare. Please don’t confuse yourself (and us) unnecessarily. I’m not asking anybody to accept arbitrary mocking of the Diin nor am I stopping anyone from being offended by what is said in this or other threads (I thought I had reiterated this point over and over again). I just pointed out that disapproving of, criticising or, in this case, ‘mocking’ something like the jilbaab may be unpleasant to you, but it is not sacrilegious as far as I’m aware.

Perfume is bad. It tortures me on the train every morning. Must people swim in the stuff before they leave their house? Modesty, I recently got Amour Amour (Cacharel) and Pure Poison (Dior) as gifts. They sit on my dresser pretty as anything. But I can't use them. I'm sort of allergic to Perfumes...A small sniff and it's sinus lockdown, skin breakout, teary eyes and a sneezing fit.

Mmmm...Maldives...aaah!

LoOoL. Poor Smith. Erm..maybe we shouldn't laugh. It could be sacrilegious. Ok..ok...I'll stop. Reminds me of a story I once heard about an Imam in Somalia. Apparently, his congregation didn't like siduu dadka u tujinayey or uu umaamulayey masaajidka. So during one Friday prayer, the poor people got fed up and decided to walk out and have someone else lead the prayers outside. The Imam followed them outside and asked them to get back in the mosque. They told him to get lost. He stood on the step and said 'War dadkani waxbey ujeedaane wixii reer hebela ha soo noqdaan'. A third of the protesters went back into the mosque.

^ Quite the troll, ain't ya? Am impressed. Yeah, the man may have been harmless, but there's something really sinister about men who ask women for the time (especially in isolated areas where their approach could be taken otherwise). I may also be a bit paranoid, just a bit mind. I was probably feeling vulnerable because I had taken a different bag this morning and my knife was in my other bag. I wouldn't advice any girl to stop and give the time to a man. He can go and ask someone else.

Xiin, Like I said, the Jilbaab is a simple garment. You can't make it into something it isn't, i.e. divine and sacred. If hebel and Co have an animosity towards it, that's their own issue, and it hardly impacts on you or I. If you can't change their minds by debate, you're not going to change it by intimidation or insults. That's all. I await your evidence.

Legend, I'm glad to hear it. Ah...young love! *Sigh*

^ Yeah. It's kinda cold today...which is why am going home early. Toodles.

Can you think of a more chilling question? I was walking to work this morning when a man tapped me on the shoulder and asked for the time. Perhaps an innocent enough question to anybody but me. As soon as I heard those words, I froze. Alarm bells…alarm bells. Who asks strangers for the time anymore? Doesn’t everyone have a mobile phone at least, if not a watch? So why ask? I’m certain that only muggers and rapists ever do, anyone else would be in too much of a hurry if they are really worried about the time. Even more importantly, who sneaks up on a lone female and taps her on the shoulder? Eh? Eh? Anyway, I backed off, calmly told him -from a safe distance- that I didn’t have the time (of course I did, but I wasn't going to get my mobile out. As if!), then I sprinted all the way to the office. Surely, I’m not the only one disturbed when a strange man asks for the time? I’m either super paranoid, or I have a finely tuned internal danger-sensing system in place. I’m hoping for the latter.

^ LoL...Sure sure. I will pretend I didn't see the drooling. My offer to chaperone is open anytime you wanna take advantage.

^ I sense an attraction between the two of you. Haye, shall I chaperone? I will need to have my refreshments and expenses covered, mind. Legend, There are slightly different dialects but the Somali language is one and the same. She has a northern accent, you have a southern accent. How is that a problem? Surely neither of your accents are so heavy or strange that you can't understand a word the other says. If your Somali is so bad that neither of you like to speak it, iska sheeg. Laakiin if it's just a matter of accents, well I don't see much of a problem. Unless a wholly different language lagu hadlayo, like say Barawaani, most accents waa la fahmaa if you have a good enough grasp of Somali.

^ Who? Kashanre? Ain't he a strapping fella? Confusion galore.

Xiin, Hello. And off we go again. I take especial pride in defending the jalbaab. It is a Hijaab to me, and for that it deserves respect as it represents the application of Allahs command. That isn't an issue for me as I respect the hijab as well. You are more than welcome to defend the jilbaab. It may be your preferred choice of Hijab on a woman, but it isn't everyone's preferred choice. To state that mocking the jilbaab is tantamount to mocking God's Law is rather absurd. Allah's Law says be modest and cover your hair and bossom, and Muslim scolars went one further and drew up a list of requirements that a garment will need to satisfy to be considered a hijab. So far so good. How can saying anything about the jilbaab be sacrilegious when the jilbaab is not sacred? When no single type of Hijab has been specified in either the Qur'an or hadith? There's no universal hijab (even in today's globalised world, where cultural styles are available to all, there still remain distinct differences in how Muslim women cover up). Each culture and geography have their own hijab (the point Castro & MMA were trying to make). So in this regard, it isn't a stretch of the mind to imagine that the Hijab could and probably has taken any shape, form, size or style. Small or large, stylish or frumpy, beautiful or ugly, comical or ridiculous, THEY ALL EXIST! And most of us have seen (and laughed at) enough varieties. So yes, Xiin, I would like to see you back you claim up with clear unambiguous evidence. Now in regard to the issue of discourtesy, you know what I was talking about dear. Do you think being passionate about your diin and respecting the Hijab amounts to insulting people and accusing them of being anti-Islam? From my observation, individuals wrote their disapproval of the jilbaab, they did not insult the women who wear it (in fact they seemed more concerned about whether these women were feeling forced into wearing the jilbaab by society). As I see it, their issue was with the jilbaab, not Muslim women, because I would have been offended if I thought otherwise. Perceptions, I guess. The type of Hijab women take up is influenced by any number of factors. Moreso, if a certain group really like a particular style of Hijab, it's only natural that another group will find that style totally inappropriate or completely deteste it. And of course, it's open to them to do that. Because someone dislikes a certain style of Hijab, does not mean that person is against the Hijab or that they are anti-Islamic (the usual accusations on SOL). Let me give you a hypothetical example now. A jilbaabi woman may find the khimaar/cabaaya outfit completely silly. She may look down on women who wear it because she feels they are taking the easy way out, that they are not fully serious about their hijab. Now this woman's opinion would probably offend me and I would disagree with her, BUT I wouldn't presume that she was against the hijab or that she was being Anti-Islam just because she dislikes those garments. And I'm certain neither would you! So why do people engage in that behaviour on SOL? Why do they insist on lashing out and elienating anybody who asks difficult questions or who has a different view? From my perspective, since the majority of SOL members are Muslim, I usually take it for granted that discussions are taking place within an Islamic framework. There's nothing wrong with discussing the internal workings of the diin, because no one is born with the knowledge they need to function Islamically. We're all learning as we go along. It's a natural human instinct to question and doubt, especially if something doesn't make sense to you. But as soon as someone brings up a certain issue that they may have a personal problem with, or they state something they dislike about Muslims (note: Islam isn't usually the problem, it's Muslims - the people who practice Islam and who are by no means angels. But the distinction is usually thrown out), suddenly their faith and principles are being questioned. Suddenly they are being accused of a whole hog of crimes against Islam. Suddenly they are being spoken to like they are not Muslims and that they have no right to discuss Islamic issues. How could you be certain that in your vehement defence of Islam, you are not pushing someone out of Islam? That in dropping courtesy, you are not putting someone off permanently? I am not against setting people straight or informing them if you think they have the wrong end of the stick. But the vilifying and the intimidation tactics used by you guys is hard to swallow. So, yes, dear Xiin, I do have a sense of right and wrong. Indeed, I have a very strong sense of right and wrong. I may disagree with my 'foes' as you put it, I may debate with them and attempt to show what, in my eyes, is wrong with their views. But, I would never presume to bring their faith into question, and I would certainly never question whether they are Muslim or not. I usually work from the premise that they are, unless they specifically say they aren't. Unfortunately, I find that the opposite is prevalent here. I suppose this, more than anything else, is what concerns me the most. It is also the reason I always get involved in these sorts of tussles. I never even get the chance to write my take on the topic, because I am always responding to throw-away accusations against others. It's almost funny....Yous: He/she is Un-Islamic, sacrilegious, sinful, blasphemous, etcetra etcetra. Me: Not exactly. What he/she actually said was.... Kinda tiring. I don't know why I do it, but suffice to say, I will probably be back again tomorrow, arguing about the same thing. Eid mubarak and all. *Slinks off*

I really shouldn't be surprised, but I can't fail to be saddened by the behaviour of some nomads. Apparently the self-appointed 'defenders' of the Diin believe that the way to engage with those they disagree with is to holler hell and damnation, intimidate and insult, and worse cast aspersions on others' faith. They behave as though Islam belongs to them alone and act as though they make the decision as to who will go to hell or heaven. Worse, these attitudes seem to be condoned by the rest. What a disgrace. No one questioned the validity of Hijab in this thread. The topic under discussion was the jilbaab, but rather than debating it's merits/problems in a civilised manner, some of the brothers resorted to base insinuations and direct character attacks. For shame. By all means, debate and debate well. Rebuke and correct. Inform and learn. But do not be so arrogant as to think that you know it all or even a fraction of all. Do not be so vile as to look down on others, especially when you don't know what is in their hearts. Lastly, do not act as though you own Islam because you don't. Diintu belongs to Allah and is open to every human alive. Cidna kama xigtaan diinta markaa dadka amaan siiya, for God's sake. Rahima: Ahura, Tent as a description is not hurtful or sacrilegious. Like I said the square hijab does look like a napkin, laakiin it is the form and tone in which it is said which makes it sacrilegious. To say such taunts, be it ‘tent’ or ‘napkin’ in a tone of yasid (which Castro seemingly did- I still have not been corrected in case I am wrong) is sacrilegious. You are a hijabi Ahura, and you know how degrading and hurtful taunts such as ‘napkin’ and ‘tent’ in a tone of yasid can be. That is the point of contention here, at least as far as I’m concerned anyway. Hello. Reading your post, it occurs to me that it all comes down to interpretation. We both read Castro's posts, but clearly understood it differently. You feel he is being sacrilegious because of his 'tent' comment which came across as 'yasid', a 'put down' of jilbaabis, so to speak. I guess that's a perfectly reasonable deduction to make. Now, whether Castro meant his 'Tent' comment as a simple description or a put down, I cannot say (only he can answer that - but I am more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and take it as a description). However, what I disagree with is the assertion that it's sacrilegious to call the jilbaab a 'tent' in whatever tone. The jilbaab is no way or form sacred (it's simply a garment one wears). Just as some brothers feel that wearing shortened trousers is better than wearing longer versions, the jilbaab may be taken as a superior form of hijab, but that does not make it sacred. It remains a simple over-garment. Of course, it should be respected and mocking it should certainly be discouraged. But sacrilegious, it isn't. We know Allah's Word/directive is sacred, we know the Qur'an is Sacred, but clothes cannot be sacred. Muslim women often choose to wear skirts because they feel it's more modest that trousers, that does not make skirts sacred. Going to Hajj is a sacred experience, but the 2/3 pieces of white cotton that the pilgrims wear is not sacred. Simply put, clothes can never be sacred. I hope I have explained myself well because there's simply nothing else I can add. You may disagree with Castro's arguements, you may believe his points are invalid, but you can't accuse him of being sacrilegious. That's all I have been trying to clarify all along. Nabadey. PS: Rahima, I understand where you're coming from in regard to the quote below. As a Hijabed Muslimah who has bore the brunt of similar taunts from the gaalo, this insistence to receive the same from your own brethren is on one hand saddening and the other absolutely disgusting. With that I leave this thread, but for any person who insists on using that word, I’d advise you to re-think it especially with regards to its impact.

^^ Dadka qaarkood walee waa lagu khasaaray. Being called the name of a woman is by no means an insult. Afka xun dhinac dumarka uga leexi oo hadaad odayga rabtid inaad caydid wax kale ku cay.