The Point: Motherhood is much much more than being confined to a house. It is also not directly in conflict with the 'wondrous world of work', not if you're smart. Inverted thinking is assuming one negates the other. Originally posted by Baashi: Yaa valenteenah look home stay mom is not a lifetime commitment. I have a hunch that many assume that is the case with home stay moms. Not true! When kids hit the magic number many stay home mom find something useful to do be business-related or community related work. This much has to be said at the outset. You also seem to be equating woman who has left paid workforce to take care for their family to woman who wasted their talents for something less-fulfilling or something that is not worth the sacrifice! Not true! With stable and functioning family, this is perhaps most fullfilling time for many women. Likewise you seem to be of the opinion that father is not doing his part if stay home mom accept that role. Not true! Assuming he is responsible and fair man, he is probably working his behind off to provide for his family and the same time helping her raising kids. You just have to realize that the best interest of the child is to spend “quality time†with mom at least in early childhood years! Fathers can help but they can not replace mothers **Now it seems to me that you put “paid work†on a pedestal and a high one at that! Paid work is an economic necessity for many. Not a spiritual one! What that means is if one can get by without paid 8-5 work shift it is all better. There are activities that home stay mom might choose to pursue (given she has enough spare time) such as community work, teaching, writing, home-based business, and what not! Paid work is overrated qallanjo. Baashi, please don't flip the coin on me. I didn't make any assumptions that you didn't present in your souped up, emotional-blackmail-masquerading-as-a-case-study post. Unless I have it wrong, you painted the picture of a married couple with two young kids. You presented the mother as a well-educated and fairly high flying career woman. You listed out a number of problems and obstacles facing them (well her really, but I won't split hairs) in terms of their children's schooling, child-care and quality time. You presented the only possible solution as the woman quitting her job and staying at home full-time. My response was completely in line with this scenario. I listed out possible alternatives to giving up work completely, choices in schooling, options for working more smartly..etc..etc. I didn't explicitly mention that 'work' had to be paid employment. That was implicit in your post and therefore in mine too. What you didn't do was mention the father's input in this case (if there is any at all), the other possible options that are available to the woman, whether or not she would be able to maintain her career and skills while at home, whether she could find another source of income and how long she would be staying at home for. Now if you had touched on any of these in your previous post, I would have taken them into consideration. I'm not a mind reader, so the fault isn't really mine, it's yours. Your next misty piece should pack more emotional hand-wringing power. Finally let me say this much to you: **I know you are big on your career or paid workforce. Evidently that’s priority to you! Understood! But it is high opportune for you to at least concede to the premise that home stay mother is a natural and fulfilling role for women. By women I do mean educated and sophisticated women that are contributing to their community in so many ways. It might not work for you but this is a role that works for many many women. But you see staying at home isn't natural or fulfulling for all women. Your mistake is assuming that it should be. However, as you stated, there are many women who find pleasure in being a homemaker and regard it as an ambition. Your post was not targeted at those types of women though. It was specifically targetting working women with established careers who are resistant to becoming full-time housewives. **: I have chosen to ignore some of the more personal remarks you made, as I don't believe you have the necessary information to reach such conclusions.

Hello you!! Aren't you a bit early? Four whole years...amazing, huh? Congrats dear.

LoL…very emotive scenario. The only answer your question seeks is ‘Yes, I will stay at home for my kids and flush my career down the toilet’. Hey, parents need to sacrifice for their kids, of course they do, but why should the woman be the only one actually sacrificing anything? Taking your hypothetical scenario, Why is it they didn’t talk about this while they were having their two kids? Isn’t a marriage a partnership? Aside from his salary, what exactly is the dad’s practical input in this situation, other than suggesting she stays home? In terms of schooling, a 5 year old starts school full-time, in the UK at least. That means she will be occupied between 8.30 and 3pm. Most schools also have extended school activities running throughout the year, e.g. breakfast and after-school clubs. My 5 year-old nephew loves going to his after-school and holiday clubs even though they cost money and his mum is a house-mum. He gets to learn and play with his friends. He also loves his teachers (they are quite lovely). Despite the scaremongering that takes place in the media, it’s statistically very unlikely that anything would happen to your kids while they are at school. The important thing, as always, is to find a really good school for your children. Everything else is negotiable. The daughter will eventually gain confidence and settle down once she makes friends, and so will the son once he begins to socialise and play with other kids. Most kids seem to only have a ‘temper’ when their mum is around, and at other times they are perfectly behaved and really pleasant (prolly because they are spoiled). As for homework, both parents can help with that in the evening. It’s probably the only daily time the kids would have with their father anyway (since inta kale uu shaqeeyo ama hurdo *spit*) In terms of work, the job market is a lot more flexible these days. Many employers recognise the need for a work/life balance and offer flexible-working schemes, such as home-working, Job-share, 10-3pm core hours, flexi-time, increased unpaid leave…etc. There are some benefits for fathers as well, although not as many as for mothers. For example, our assistant director works from home on Mondays and goes home early on Fridays to look after his daughter. There is no reason why a woman should not work, not when she can look after her kids with the support of her husband. There are also so many other options out there; finding work closer to your home, moving closer to your work or a really good school, husband reducing his hours and/or doing his share of child-care, getting a full-time nanny…etc. Even if you want to or have to stay at home, there’s no reason why you can’t keep working. Many women opt to start up their own businesses from home while their children are young. And why not? Why should you throw away everything you have worked for when you can have your cake and damn well eat it too? A reasonable and practical woman does the best for her family and herself . Unnecessary self-sacrifice isn't very useful.

^ LoL...nice car. Now, is it going to be coming out of your pocket (or credit-rating) or his?

That's nice. I wish them well.

LoL.

Originally posted by Maf Kees: Well tenacious girl is disqualified from the competition. Raison d'être. And unless she is Auntie P and is a middle aged white woman, she is DQed. There is always one, isn't there? Tut tut...

That has to be one of the most atrocious things I have read in a while. Walaahi there are far too many mentally unstable people walking around like normal; bombs about to go off at any time. Tahliil: 3/4 of Somali marriages are not registered, which makes for some confusion when it comes to legal statuses. I also doubt very much if every man [and woman to be PC] is a potential psychopath with hidden talents in the art of mutilation. :rolleyes:

Are you talking about sexual molestation? In childhood? Adulthood?? At work? All of the above? None of the above? It's probably not relevant but I get molested frequently on the Tube. And so does one of my male colleagues. We think it's because we are awfully passive (me) or attractive (him) people that it happens to us. Avoid both the Northern and Victoria lines during rush hour. Jokes aside, molestation of any kind is a horrible thing. Anyone who it happens to should report it to the police. Modesty, you contemplate very dark issues these days. Tone, LoL...it will be mentioned, don't you worry.

Yum yum.

^ LoL...is you cruising for a smacking? How can you even think of saying nay to Thailand and Singapore? Don't you want to stock up on state of the art gadgets? You must! When I see Indonesia, I will see Papua New Guinea, inshallah. Sheh, if I start saving up now, will you take me along? Your practical travelling experience coupled with my uncanny ability to invite all manner of mini disasters on us would make it a unique and interesting trip at the very least. Also, I'm an expert map-reader/navigator (went to a military camp in high school) and I have a great sense of direction. What say you?

^ LoL...Aw. There is something to be said for an open mind and heart. What say you about Papua New Guinea?

Originally posted by Socod_badne: The show is gay. I'd go further and say much of what's on the Tube these days are laden subliminal gay messages. Really? I hadn't noticed. How long have you been hearing these 'subliminal gay messages' then?

Loo0ooL @ SB! Originally posted by underdog: *Total cost of 4 year education = 58920 pounds * 6 years of working at 21,500 per year = 129,000 pounds *Total after deduction of education cost = 70080 pounds. The other guy worked straight thru 10,296 for ten years = 102,960 pounds. UD, I was with you until I got to the '6 years' bit. I know, caveman mathematics and all, but 6 years at the same salary level? C'mon! Each added year's experience should increase the pay. Within 6 years, they should be earning over £30k if they know what's good for them.

* What your degree has done is broaden your horizons. It's shaped you and you are proud of your accomplishment. I'm sure you would have done it again even if you have no interest in using it, the only difference is, you might have picked a more interesting degree to read. I don't have a need to prove myself. I have a need to improve myself. *[Edit] Fine, I'll be nice! But you know, I was referring to your "p.s. What my degree has got me is a mentality that I need to work for some1 else to make a living!" comment. A fib, that it was. It's given you the skills to work for yourself as well.

Yes, discourage her, why don’t you? After all you already have your degree; you can afford to be disappointed in it. Of course a degree alone doesn’t guarantee a good job (these days you need an advanced qualification to compete, although even an MSc alone isn’t enough for some jobs), however, imagine the difficulties you would be having if you didn’t even have that lousy first degree. You would be truly shafted. It’s a tough world out there, and that’s why your main objective should be to aim for more, rather than less. Qualifications, experience, skills… you should be adding to them constantly, expanding your capacity and improving your chances. Stagnation isn't a good thing. The main advantage of institutional education is accreditation. No one cares whether you can remember or apply what you were taught; the important thing is to have that piece of paper that says you have done it. You can ‘self-teach’ all you want, but unless you have some documentation to back up your knowledge first and foremost, you won’t even get the chance to demonstrate your skills. Inanta jar ha ka tuurin, you mean cow.

I'm guessing you are in or about to start your final year? Hey, it's not just you, everyone struggles with it. Depression and doubts are part and parcel of the student experience. Ask anyone who’s been to uni (well, anyone but those weird geeks that got all their work done on time and actually enjoyed the experience). The important thing is to keep your eye on the finishing line. Surely, you don't have that much longer to go? (You know how quickly time flies). And then once it's behind you, you can move on to the next struggle. Don't fool yourself into believing that there is an easier route out there (in this case finding a faarax and becoming a housewife) for you. Nothing valuable is easy. Whatever you end up doing, it will be a struggle (that much you can be certain of). It's just how life is. Now, what makes it worth your time is achieving something you really want (whatever it may be). Curiously, I had this very same conversation with my younger sister some months ago. She was adamant that she couldn't handle the stress and pressure and that it was making her chronically sick (this much is true...she's been ill with poverty for some time now). Basically, she wanted to drop out of Uni although she only had one more semester to go. As you can imagine, I was all ready to get on the train to her city and strangle her with my bare hands before bludgeoning her to death with my mobile phone but, alas, my selfish parents wouldn't let me! They wanted to do it themselves. There were tears (mum), threats (me), more tears (dad), even more threats (me again)...waxaan ku idhi there hasn't been a bigger crisis in our household (well there has, but that's neither here nor there). Where was I? Oh yes. I can't quite understand why young people still think getting an education is a choice. It is not. It's a real necessity. At the most basic level, a degree is the difference between earning less than £10,296pa (Minimum wage is £5.50ph now, isn't it? I'm multiplying it by 36 core hours per week for 52 weeks, not counting any overtime, holidays or A/L) for back-breaking work in a shop, supermarket, restaurant or warehouse and earning £21,500pa (see here and here for info on graduate salaries) for sitting in an air-conditioned office doing little to jack. A degree is also the difference between securing a promotion once you are in a good enough position and being stuck at the same level for eons. For example, say you and your colleague are doing the exact same job and are as good as each other, except she has a degree and you don’t. Even if you have more experience, you can bet your last banana that should an opportunity for a promotion arise, she’ll get it. Why? Because the company will feel that your colleague is more of an asset, she has the potential to succeed in the higher echelons of the organisation due to her educational background than you would. Of course, it might not always be like that. Some people succeed without much of an education, but when you consider the fact that you are female, black and Muslim... Well, let's just say every little advantage helps, eh? To end this long, rambling shame of a post, your education is an investment in your future (whether that future is in paid [job] or unpaid [home] employment). Don’t play with it.

^ There are plenty of shows about family life and stuff. Am just not interested in watching them. A home is no longer viewed as a place to raise a family but rather, a place to make Money and more Money and more Money. What's wrong with doing both? Properties are commodities, an investment into your (and your children's) future. So why not raise your children while making money out of your home also? It makes perfect sense to me. SubhanAllah, we live in a world full of empty shells. If only that was so, I would be able to find one to live in. There really should be more empty shells out there.

Move over BB... Hello [Celebrity] Love Island! Trash TV..err, sorry, I mean reality shows are popular everywhere, aren't they? It's akin to viewing a horrific roadside crash. Nothing beats property and gardening shows. My evenings and weekends are spent watching programmes like Location, Location, Location; Property Ladder; Put Your Money Where Your House Is; Weed it and Reap; Would You Buy a House With a Stranger?; Increase Your House Price By £10K... etc., etc. Educational and entertaining. Thank God for E4 & UKTV!

^^

^ Where do you think it eventually vanishes to? Valenteenah. Sad! So having a job is more pleasing and important to you then having a stable family? Oooh, wouldn't that be just shocking? Extra Extra..read all about it! Assumptions are terrible things. I am not going to lie to you, it's very important for me to have a well-paying job I really enjoy, but it isn't more important than having a stable family. They are equally necessary to me. And, no, they don't cancel each other out either. My family has quite a few high-flying career women who've managed to maintain and advance their careers through marriages, kids, divorces, second marriages, more kids, menopauses, illnesses...etc. Nobody deserves to be stuck in a single role for life. Now that would be the epitome of sadness.

Congrats to Mobb Deep.

Zii, Olol isn't the author. He just forgot to include the source of the flaptickle.

Originally posted by Xoogsade: What is there to be upset about for being confused with a man if you were a woman? they have too many issues to deal with be it biological, emotional or some other burdens, It is a man's world saxib, lol, I think some if not many wouldn't mind being a male They would call that the definition of provocation. *Must resist*

LoL...which law school did you go to, ME?