Its interesting how you take from the scholars of Saudi or anyone for that matter as long as they agree with your view! If it is not in accordance with your view they are wrong as far as your concerned! if Bin Baaz defends Salman and Safar you jump on his his banwagen! if he praises His government, This is a no no he is clearily wrong! If Uthaymin praises Hasan Albana, you will quote him at will, because here it suits your needs, but God forbid if he praises his government! you wil never quote him for this! I do not know your personaly, but this is only from what i witness from your post, as long as they agree with you opinions it all good, you will quote them, but if they dont they somehow made a mistake! You're accusing others what you're practisaing almost in every article. This is exactly what you're doing, any Fatwa they defend other ULUMA you dismissed as OLD or stolen from the Sheikh's office etc. and when they praise the kingdom this is GOOD fatwa. Ayoup wrote: I've heard of Salafi who tell Palestinians to stop the Jihaad and emigrate, are you one of them? Ayoub Bro. he doesn't answer such questions since he doesn't want to show the reality of his group and their contradictions, in addition he has some elder and more experienced advisors and suppliers of Copy & Paste articles. I think they advised him not to answer many questions which I asked him. If he didn't answer I will give you the origin of this Fatwa and how whole UMMAH rejected it.

Jamal 11, Sxb., ha la yaabin Soomaalida, kuwaani askari dhintay bayba cayrsanayaane, mid caalimkii waynaa ee ABUL A'alal Mawduudi Qabriga kala soo baxay baan haynaa, waxaana taas ka sii daran Salafi-on-line buu la baxay oo wuxuu yiri Salafka jidkiisaan ku taagnahay, marka Aakhiru samanka waxkatsa waa la arki doonaa. SOOMAALI ARAGTAYAABA YAAB ARAGTAY.

Salafi wrote Allah's messenger said khalifaship(if thats even a word) would end, the rule of Kingship would begin, and then after that Oppressive kingship and then back Khalifah upon the way of the prophethood and this also will end! can an islamic state be establish without a Khalifah, but rather with amirs, Or (waliyul Amr)? so lets say, i lived during the first Kingship phase! and i know oppressive kingship is on its way ,what then shall i do? shall i still work on establish a khalifah? wouldnt this task be pointless? This is why many Ulumas call your group QADARIYAH JADIDAH. Do you think that when our Rasuul (S.A.W) telling us what future hold for us meant don't do anything about it? Our beloved prophet (S.A.W) told us many things coming but Sahaba and taabiciin never understood that we shouldn't do anything about it. I think i told u b4 but didn't listen; your group's wrong understand focus on (KHABAR) NEWS and not the (AMAR) ORDER. ALLAH (S.W.T) and his PROPHET (S.A.W) order us to be one UMMAH under one KHALIFAH however, our prophet told us some unseen (QAYB) situations coming, so what should we concentrate on it? the NEWS or ORDER? of course the ORDER, just like all the QADAR issues we shouldn't give much care about what will happen, our aim is to achieve what we're ordered by ALLAH (S.W.T) and his PROPHET (S.A.W) without giving much attention to the results. this is the understand of our SALAF and KHALAF alike. Here is a an example. He (S.A.W) told us the coming of KHAWARIJ, did ALI (R.A) sit and say this is what our prophet S.A.W. told us so we can't do anything about it or he (R.A) treated this problem any possible solution i.e negotiation, treaty, and whaen they broke the treaty fight. So, whay Ali (R.A) not waited and say we can't do anything about it as you're saying now, we ahve to wait until this kingship ends enz. and yet you're claiming that you're following the Salaf's path. Therefore your group want to misguide the MUSLIM by claiming that they're followers of SALAF or you know the fact but you do all this to prevent a revolt against Saudi Royals .

I wonder why Salafi-on-line don't spend such time and effort to defend who deserve to be defended and protected? Salafi defend who you want but keep your tongue off from our Scholars and Mujahidiin (Salaf & Khlaf). If you return I will return. :rolleyes:

Og-girl the only one who knows the intentions is ALLAH. For me, my purpose was to expose the contradictions and decieves of this cult and i did ALXAMDULILAH. I hope that everyone is clear now about this group, where they come from who funded and their purpose etc.

This contradiction is a Tip of the iceberg of contradictions of this Cult. These contradictions include that they refused other muslims to have their own name, leader enz. while they are not only have their own name and leader but also are very proud to them. their claim that they follow the SALAF but the reality is that they follow KHALAF. Their claim that SALAF were slaves to the oppresive rulers while the reality was totally different from their claim. their claim that Muslims should leave from Kufr countries while most of them live in EU, US and Canada etc. their claims that it's forbidden to establish communities in the western countries while they have their own communities in these countries. and last but not least their claim that the photograph is forbidden and not allowed muslims to have or to use any kind of photograph (including passaport photograph) and

J11 Thank you very much sxb. I knew the answer but i wanted to come from his mouth. Have you ever seen contradiction like these? “Firstly: That it is contrary to the guidance of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), since he never entered into such a thing with the disbelievers . Secondly: That anybody who enters into the parliamentary system will surely deviate from Islaam, little by little.†compare the above quotes from salafi-on-line to these below. the Saudi government are not doing Shirk, they are not Kufar but Muslims , and its not permissible to overthrow them, even if they are Unjust! The fact that they seem oppressive does not give the youth or other then them the license to overthrow them or even speak ill of them,( backbiting is Haram and Allah did not sanction these such actions) Unless you have dalil of course! Abdullah Yusef is now a ruler, and all the conditions that apply to the saudis also apply to him, until he shows clear kufr(disbelieve)! obeying and hearing him is obligatory since its foundation of islam! Backbitting Abdullah Yusef and speaking ill of him him not being present is haram, its similar to eating his dead flesh! if you have nothing good to say about the man, i suggest everyone to remain silent about is faults, unless he is an innovator or a kafir! and neither of these titles apply to him as far as i know! on one hand they're disbelievers and other hand they're not kufar but muslims and it's haram to overthrow them and even to criticise them. :rolleyes: Funny in'it?

I really don't know what Al-saud gave this cult untill they become blind to their crimes while they see the little faults of our noble ULUMA both SALAF & KHALAF. What do you think guys is that money, liquid, gas or what? I'm really confused about the fact that one can't see the crimes of Al-saud and can see the very little faults of IMAM NAWAWI and IBN XAJAR AL-CASQALANI & anyone who opposes Al-saud or Jamal Abdul-nasir enz. I'm serious guys tell me if you know more about this cult. I was observing this cult during past 10 years and I realised that beside the funding there is something else :rolleyes: so could anyone give me any clue?

J11 You too, otherwise I will tell their astonishing stand , since I know more his groups methodology than him.

Og Girl could you please make WASTA to ask Salafi-on-line to answer my last question. If i repeat my last question was: His groups stand on joining to oppresssive/corrupt rulers parliaments? It seems Ngone is busy

Ngone Sxb. If you're still insisting that the arguement is not simple as i am illustrating, could you please do one favour: Could you please ask Salafi-on-line (on behalf of me since he will not answer my questions) His group's stand on joining the parliaments of the oppresive muslim rulers like Kuwait, Jordan and by the way new Somalia enz.? Hope he will give you an answer since you're impartial on this issue.

Abdullah Yusef is now a ruler, and all the conditions that apply to the saudis also apply to him, until he shows clear kufr(disbelieve)! obeying and hearing him is obligatory since its foundation of islam! Backbitting Abdullah Yusef and speaking ill of him him not being present is haram, its similar to eating his dead flesh! if you have nothing good to say about the man, i suggest everyone to remain silent about is faults, unless he is an innovator or a kafir! and neither of these titles apply to him as far as i know! first of all i'm happy that my uncle came the same position as FAHAD, :cool: Just joking ! But why don't you treat these noble Uluma and Mujahidin at least same treatment as Fahad and Abdullah Yusuf? Osama actions are not synonyms with the teachings of the Quran and sunnah nor does it correspond with the path of the Salaf. You can orate as much as you want on how Osama is muslim , but this does not quench the fact that his activities are evil, corrupt and utter misguidance. We hate him for what he preaches and what he does and what he calls to! He is misguided and misguides others; however, this does not diminish the misguidance of Osama! he is more harmful to me then Bush ! while bush can kill me and hurt me physically, Osama can corrupt my heart and distort my Aqeeda! There is not difference between Bin Laden and the khawarij during the time of Ali Bin Talib(RA)? Salman A-awda, Safar Al-xawali,Saruuri's, Are not Salafies....Salma A-awda and safar al-xawali vilify The Kibar Ulaama of our time and past. Sakina i also refuse to follow Qardawi and his hanchmans! But i love Bin Baaz May Allah perserve him! What BRother nur is doing is what we call "Taymee'" to have softness and tolerance for ahlul bi'ah, taking the good and leaving the bad of these groups and parties! The good that is found in their da'wah is found in the Salafi manhaj, everything we need to know about this religion has been explained to the companions, they are the Jamaca, and these groups and parties do not uphold the manhaj of the Jamaca! If it is in the akhlaaq of the Salaf ul Saalih, to point fingers and make tajriix of other groups who we differ in some of the aqeedah issues or Fiqh? like puting down the Tabligh, ikhwan and the Saruuri?

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Ngone, Sxb what I am talking about is there are two group of people First group are: IMAM NAWAW, IBN XAJAR CASQALANI, SAYID QUTUB, QARADADAWI, SALMAN AL-AWDA, SAFAR AL-XAWALI and many other ULUMAS Second group are; FAHAD, MUSHARRAF, HUSNI MUBARAK, AYAD ALLAWI, KARAZAI etc. Who should we defend and who should we attack, if I ask you?

This is the way I see and treat such issues. Some might regard it as a form of fence sitting, however, if trying to avoid falling into sinful arguments over things I know nothing about is fence sitting then may I never get up. When the things are disbuteable FIQH matters you can treat such way but when it comes defending Fahad and his alikes and attacking Sayid Qutub and his alikes or issuing this FATWA on Iraq http://www.salafipublications.com It is Black and White.

So, do you want me to keep queit and let Salafi-on-line to insult and backbite those noble uluma nd to defend Al-saud regime? You say that his “cult†attacks the scholars but you go on and attack them too. What if they’re right? can you show where I attcked to any Scholar? I agree with them when they were defending their counterpartors like what he called "the old fataws" and disagree with them when they let this Cult to attack them. is the disagreement same as attacking? I can disagree for example one fatwa from sheikh without insulting him, but dose salafi-on-line follow same path or he called them INNOVATORS or similar names?

I might be wrong, saaxib. But, the way I understood their argument was in the style of “ The king is dead, long live the king†et cetera. Sxb. this debate is not about long live the king , it's about religion. as you may have seen this guy and his group are attacking our noble Uluma including Imam NWAWI and IBN HAJAR (the authors of SAHIH BUKHARI & SAHIH MUSLIM and many other very usefull books like RIYAADUL SALIHIIN) as well as many contemporay scholars like Sayid Qutub, Qaradawi, Salman al-awda, Safar al-xawali and many others while they, on the other hand, defending the corrubted, oppresive and american backed regimes in the Muslim countries like Fahad, Mubarak and their alikes. All these in the name of ISLAM. You've just seen his controversial proofs to attack the ULUMAS or as he called INNOVATORS (as the innovators are only those who disobbey FAHAD and his alike)and to defend the oppresive rulers or as he called the Leaders or Wulaatul ummuur as they always call. All what i'm doing here is to dismiss all his claims that our beloved religion orders us to defend oppressive rulers and to attck our noble Ulumas. Therefore the question here is weather you agree with Salafi-on-line or not? I don't mind weather you agree with him or not but you never made clear your position as everybody else did.

You're very clever indeed, you're answering only questions suitsyou and the rest . All these copy & paste is to defend Al-saud and to attack our beloved scholars. even if we assume all these ULUMA to be innovators what about Al-saud? are they better than these ULUMA. I mentioned b4 that last part of this hadith (there is a hadith about this, its says obey those who are in power unless you see clear kufr which you have prove from Allah and you have the power to overthrow them!) is from someone's pocket and not from our PROPHET (S.A.W). Fortunately you admitted in one of your copy & paste quotes that this extra doesn't exist: ...and you have the power to overthrow them! You wrote; ‘‘Except if you were to see clear disbelief (kufran bawaahan) about which you have a proof from Allaah.’’ Related by Muslim (6/17) So, where the extra comes from? and my last question is; I wonder weather all these controversial proofs are valid for all Muslim leaders including Ayad alawi, Hamid karazai enz. or only for FAHAD? :confused:

This is very important point. AbdulWahhab and Al Sa'ood fought against and people we were committing clear kufr, so in this case its permissable to overthrow the ruling party if you have the power to due so! there is a hadith about this, its says obey those who are in power unless you see clear kufr which you have prove from Allah and you have the power to overthrow them! so AbdulWahab was following the Sunnah and the Shariyah! thats why the salafi Scholars love him, praise him, and Call him one of the greatest muhajid and scholars that lived! ....and you have the power to overthrow them! This part of the hadith dosn't exist it's from your pocket or your groups pockets to justify some actions and to dismiss other actions. I would also like to hear from you the clear KUFR that OTHMAN KHILAFAH (I'm not saying OTHMAN EMPIRE sine this is Western name) committed that justified to overthrow it.

the Saudi government are not doing Shirk, they are not Kufar but Muslims, and its not permissible to overthrow them, even if they are Unjust! The fact that they seem oppressive does not give the youth or other then them the license to overthrow them or even speak ill of them,( backbiting is Haram and Allah did not sanction these such actions) Unless you have dalil of course! So, It's haram to backbite Al-saud but its permissible to backbite Noble ULUMA and Mujaahidiin Ayoub Sheikh wrote: In the 1980's Osama and every Saudi scholar agreed it was correct to fight against the then ruler of Afghanistan when he called in troops from the USSR to protect him, what is the difference between that and the invitation of American troops to the holy lands by the monarchs of Saud? waiting your response as you were good last days :cool:

I am very happy to see Salafi-on-line had finally responded and exposed himself. I think he told us what if i would say you may not have believed it. They're lot but these are the most important exposes. Look this is getting ridiculous, for the sake of Allah sister listen, the author called Osama a "Shaykh", (a form of praising) By Allah he is not a shaykh, And Ibn jibreen does not even come close to the status of Albani! Anyways as far as I know this fatwah is concerning those kids, and youth who call people "misguided" upon whims, without dalil or a scholar preceding them! MOst people think its an interesting point, and I too thought it was an interesting point, until I read The scholars reply and refutation of Ibn Jibreen to such extend that they used harsh words!As far as I know to this day he has not responded to one single of these refutation from the kibar Ulama! Shaikh Zaid makes mention at the very beginning that he was saddened to see a Shaikh like Ibn Jibreen being associated with the CDLR of al-Mis'ary, being taken unawares, and then he was made to think that the likes of Qutb was just like the great scholars of the past, who had great knowledge, but who erred in some areas. Sister there is certain fundamentals of the deen, Allah does not accept the deeds of a Kafir and nor does he accept the deeds of Innovator until he relinquishes that innovation and his innovation earnes him a ticket straight to the fire if he does not relinquishes before death! These are basic principals! These Quotes and many others show us that these Cult are the only people who know who is right who is wrong? what is right what is wrong? who is high who is low? whose deeds have been accepted by ALLAH whose not enz. and don't forget even if you're real SHEIKH like Qaradawai, Ibn jabireen, Salman al-awda, safar al-xawali, C/raxman C/khaliq and many others, they have another way to criticise them. Did they confined the contemporary scholars? BIG NO and this is the most dangerous issue since this led that some youngesters burn SAHIH BUKHARI and SAHIH MUSLIM in MADINAH when they heard fatwas like this. As for those who were mentioned along with him, like an-Nawawee and ibn Hajar, it is wrong and oppressive to refer to them as being “among the people of innovationâ€. I know that they were amongst the Ash‘arites, but they did not intend to contradict the Qur’aan and the Sunnah. It is only that they mistakenly thought two things regarding the ‘aqeedah which they had inherited from the Ash‘arites! When these youngesters heard that IAMAM NAWAWI and IBN XAJAR AL-CASQALAANI's AQEEDA were not correct they burned their EXPLANATIONS of SAHIH BUKHARI and MUSLIM. and my question here is; Who told the Sheikh Albani that Sayid Qutub and Hassan al-banna intend to contradict the Qur’aan and the Sunnah and Imaam Nawawi and Casqalaani did not intend? and i heard similar remarks from the sheikh in the past like; we know some of those who entered parlimment, they didn't enter except to gain some of the wealth enz. This is the way of this Cult, to destroy all the efforts of Muslims except what their desires liked it. Furthermore, do you think that they're even real followers of the Sheikh's that they're claiming to be their followers if they give the Fatwas that contradict their desire? BIG NO. the best example is this: I thank you sister I knew of these fatwah, and these Qutubies have not cease( not saying u are one, but im sure u got it from there websites) attacking the salafi brothers, and they quote and old fatwa’s of the noble MayShaykh and purposely hind the truth! what's is more evil is that they promote and praise the people of innovations under the name of Salafi, I know this because my beloved Sister I was a devoted followers of these Qutubies Harakiyyeen, until Allah guided me from their deception! For example u posted three fatwahs by the scholars, these fatwahs are the trophy of the Qutubies! the innocent and new salafi who love these scholars usually fall for these deceptions, much like myself, however Alhamdulillah there is always people out there who allah uses to rebut their faleshood, (again ukti FilLah is this is directed towards you) just an observation i made when I was an avid adheer to their so called Salafi Manhaj and webpages! Salafi-on-line whether you call Trophy or not I stick on this OLD FATWAS from those Sheikhs; So tell me whether i am wrong now or they were wrong that time? I remember many years ago i listened one of the highest Sheikhs of this group critizising IBN TAYMIYAH, the strange is that his criticism is a praise to IBN TAYMIYAH while he don't know. Finally, Do you want to be save from this group's criticism? it's very easy! just have a PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE (BAYCA) with Saudi Kingdom and do whatever you like, yu'll be untouchable. but as long as you're against this kingdom every speech, book, work from you will be observed and criticised by this group.

In conclusion this cult are: Khawarij with regards to the du'at (preachers); Look how they hate manu Du'at as well as Uluma Murji’a with regards to the rulers; Look how they defend the corrupt rurels in islamic countries, particullarly Saudi Kingdom and all its allies. Rafida with regards to the jamaa'at (Islamic groups); Look how they hate all Ilamic Da'wah groups such as Tabligh, Ikhwan, Taxriir and all others without exception. and Qadariya with regards to the Jews, Christians, infidels and Seculars. Look how they're patient and lean when it comes; what Israels are doing in Palestine and Americans are doing in Iraq and afghanistan and what seculars are doing in muslim countries and how they're strong and hard against their (supposed) muslim brothers particullary D'AT and ULUMA.

Ngone and Rahima don't misunderstand me, I asked as amny as tens of questions to Salafi-on-line and whenever he can't answer my question he change the subject. The strange is i never saw any Bros/Sis (except one) asking him to answer my questions, rather everybody accusing me to be harsh. Would you believe that i asked his ideas about the same Ftawas that Rahima asked and he failed to answer. Therefore i was waiting his response at this time. Regarding this word "Stolen from the Sheikhs OFFICE" he replied me when i showed him one noble Sheikh defending some scholars, he claimed that the sheikh said that this Fatwa was stolen from his office, so there is no wonder that he will say again. Finally, it's not obligatory to defend our Noble ULUMA weather they're Saudis, Egypts Pakistans, Somalis without saying that they're infallible?

I was busy these days, but b4 i contribute i'm waiting the reply from Salafi-on-line for the above Fatwas ! (from Rahima). Would he say this Fatwas were stolen from the Sheikh's office or something else? :confused: . However, we have to wait his reponse !

The Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said: "Allaah said: Whosoever shows enmity to a friend of Mine, I shall be at war with him. Salafi Sxb. Did you understand the meaning of this HADITH QUDSI? I'm afraid you didn't :confused:

I don't know how you were taught the ISLAMIC LAW, but we're taught as follow: The ULUMA divided the MUSLIM population into 3 categories. 1. Mass population (CAAMATA NAAS) who do not have dep knowldege in FIQH and AXKAAM LAWS, and they're the majority of MUSLIM population this category could simply say i'm shafici, xanafi, xanbali, maliki etc. since they will confuse if you teached them new FIQH rules . 2. The students of knowldege (TULAABUL ILM) can compare and contrast between the 4 MADAHIBS and the rest of ULUMA'S opinion in a disputed areas. 3. ULUMA and MUJTAHIDIIN could issue FATWAS about the FIQH and disputed areas. This is what we've learned and this is the way that can keep the UNITY of MUSLIMUUN not to force others to your MADHAB in the areas where even our SALAF were disputed. To return your answer: Following one of the 4 imams is absurd, how can you take you whole religion from ONe man?!? you may call them ONE man but they were UMMAH (NATION), and you'll recognize this if you read their SEERAH. The Salafi REJECT Taqleed(BLIND FOLLOWING), this Saying "im Haneefi", as long as you salafi and not say salaf it's internal affair. HOWEVER MR SAHAL THE MUSLIM SHOULD FOLLOW ALL OF THE 4 IMAMS, THEY SHOULD NOT BE SELECTIVE, SAYING" IM A SHAF'EEE" OR IM A "HANBALI" Who would say this; a simple MUSLIM like me or Student of knowldege or Scholar or all of them? are we more educated than many big scholars whose Surnames were SHAAFICI, XANBALI. MAALIKI, XANAFI. NO RATHER they should SAY "IM A SALAFI", meaning " I FOLLOW ALL OF THEM,AND THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE THEM, AND THOSE WHO CAME AFTER THEM" Do BUKHARI, MUSLIM, CASQALAANI, NAWAWI, IBN-RAJAB, IBN-RUSHDI, IBN KATHIIR, SUBKI, IBN QAYIM, IBN TAYMIYAH and many other noble ULUMA called themselves as SALAFI or this word was innovated in the 15th century? FUTHER MORE WE TAKE FROM THE IMAMS THAT WHICH IS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE QURAN AND THE SUNNAH, AND WHEN IN TERMS OF IJTIHAD, OR A DIFFERENCES OF OPINION, YOU MUST LOOK AT THE PROVES PROVIDED BY THE 4 IMAMS, NOT ONLY THAT, BUT YOU MUST ALSO LOOK AT THE OTHER SALAF, AND THEIR PROVES, AND WHEN IT COMES TO DIFFERENCE OF OPINION DUE TO IJTIHAD, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE MOST LEARNED OF THE SALAF, SO WE LOOK AT THE WORKS OF THE COMPANIONS FIRST, THEN THOSE WHO FOLLOWED SECOND, THEN THOSE WHO CAME AFTER THEM! HOWEVER PEOPLE NOW A DAYS JUST SAY IM SHAF'EE AND THEY HAVE NEVER READ A SIGNLE BOOK OF IMAM SHAFE'EE, NOR HAVE THEY EVEN LOOKED AT WHAT THE OTHER IMAM'S OPINIONS ARE! Who can look all these evidences simple MUSLIM or ULUMA? PLUS THERE'S MORE THEN 4 MADHABS, WHY DO U LIMITED TO 4? WHAT ABOUT SUFYAN ATHARI, OR ABDURRAMAN AL'AWZA'EE, OR ABU LAYTH...ECT I haven't limited but all the MUSLIMS are agreed upon these 4 madhabas and I never heard there are more than 4 MADHABS in ISLAM. Do you want to create more differences than we're now? :confused: