Burahadeer, please note I was writing in the future tense. Somalia after this civil war will be a world apart from what it was pre 1991. Like many other Muslim countries, ours has become much more conservative over the last 20 years.

Somalia will never be a secular country. However that does not of course mean that we cannot live side by side with peoples of other faiths. Tolerance was once a value we muslims were proud of. Christians and Jews who come to settle and live amongst us should be able to build churches and synagogues. However as it is a Muslim country, their numbers should be limited to what is appropriate for the sizes of these communities. Also overt proselytizing should be banned to maintain community cohesion. Somalis who profess other faiths will naturally cause much hoo haa, but they should be able to live in their own country. Qofna xoog lagu ma laha.

Horta hore marna ma aha wax lugu faano Somali u socota inay Somali kale weeraraan. Secondly, If the de facto state of Somaliland (whose argument for international recognition is based on the rights of a people to self-determination) wages war on the people of SCC it not only discredits the basis of its own existance but also exposes the Somaliland establishment as a glorified clan based regime with its own militia- so the years of cultivating european and western good will towards Somaliland (in the pitiful hope of somehow getting international recognition) and building an image of a secular and peaceful state will have gone to waste. You cannot claim you have the right to secede and simultaneously refuse the peoples of Awdal or SCC to themselves determine their own futures. And please spare us the mention of 'territorial integrity', the irony would be overwhelming.

Carafaat;766453 wrote: Saxiib, Somali's(institutions) coming together and consulting within Somalia without any foreign leader or goverment hosting them is a positive step. Go Garowe! After 21 years of civil war that is hardly something to be ecstatic about.

As ever the likelihood something constructive coming out of yet another conference are extremely low. Until there is a president, prime minister, parliamentary speaker and parliament who are united and who's priority is to return a semblance of peace and normality to wadanka (and not their individual gain- materialistic or otherwise) nothing of real significance will appear from their efforts and they sure as hell won't beat the Shabaab. Perhaps we will be lucky in the summer, and "elect" a president with some genuine credibility, who will designate a speaker who won't try to abuse his position at every opportunity.

Samatar & his brother were always opportunists and no more. Even in Minneapolis the Somali population have realized what these men are. This is exactly the sort of negative attitude many somalis have towards our intellectuals which has led to many avoiding getting drawn into the wreckage that is our country. There is no doubt that the Samatar brothers are genuine Somali intellectuals who have been calling for Somali unity for decades. They are both working as competent academics in American universities and have recently created a political party which for all intents and purposes is seeking to find a solution to our atrocious predicament. Tell me,what gives you the right to belittle and question the motives of those who would seek to find a way forward sxb? He certainly has done more for Somali unity than you ever will.

^^ Though I was an erstwhile aficionado of fantasy fiction and science fiction novels, I shunted it aside for less fictive pursuits. But old habits die hard. I must confess that I recently picked up the Song of Ice and Fire series-- Game of Thrones, Clash of Kings, Storm of Swords, Feast of Crows-- and found myself dangerously engrossed. It certainly exceeded expectations, both stylistically and substantively. I just might read the latest installation, A Dance with Dragons, if time permits. Unfortunately, I have yet to see any of the HBO series of this epic novel. George R.R. Martin is a master story teller. And as adaptations go, "A Game of Thrones" is one of the best- mainly because HBO has really invested in the series...and is now reaping the rewards.

Val,if you enjoyed the Game of Thrones series, i strongly recommend reading the books- you won't regret it (especially if it is an escape you're after!).

Gaas should have told the interviewer off and changed the subject That would have been music to ears of secessionists no doubt. If the prime minister of a corrupt and weak TFG is bold enough to make this statement, do you think that when peace comes to the South, a legitimate government will shy away from addressing the issue of our wayward Northern enclave?

Like many people have already mentioned, although the idea behind these meetings is a good one ie. a road map to legitimate elections, the whole process could be futile because of the non inclusion of important players in the political mess that is Somalia. Firstly I'd be very interested to know if anyone has made overtures to (the saner factions within) Al-shabaab, and if so what their reply has been. They are without doubt casting a huge shadow over this whole process as they are still an existential threat to the TFG and still have a strangle hold over much of the country. Also i cannot see elections that will be acceptable to the majority of Somalis happening without a real discussion within and between clans to agree on: 1) The constitution (to be written up by TFG:rolleyes:) 2) A smaller parliament ( most likely based on 4.5). With each clan family providing a list of candidates who satisfy the required criteria. Also road map needs to address how (or if) factions like Ahl-sunnah will be represented in parliament as they will skew a system based on 4.5 and will result in another bloated parliament 3) A fair election to be held in Mogadishu, with external observers 4) If the elections go ahead in a transparent and fair manner, that they will all publicly back the president and support his efforts to form a representative, but most importantly able cabinet. For all this to happen we need unity between clans, political factions and other stakeholders like we've never seen it before AND neutralise the menace of Al-shabaab. So i'm not holding my breath. Most likely the TFG and co. will fail to write a constitution or make a hash of it, and the pathetic political manoeuvering for next year will begin in earnest before long whilst the Shabaab continue to drag the country further into the abyss.

I suggest you look at any of Mo Farah's old races, he almost always does sujood.

I can envisage the political input of clan elders limited largely to an upper house in a future bicameral Somali political system -not unlike the 'House of Elders' of Somaliland- where they are responsible for ensuring legislation drafted is within religious and cultural norms and interests of the nation. Clan elders, and clan politics full stop - should have no place in government; the Somali consititution should stipulate clearly that clan politics within government establishments is unnaceptable and unconstitutional.

However the so call international community and enemy neighbouring countries want to keep somalia in a coma andkeep its people the divided and weak. Every somali peace and reconciliation process held abroad and the goverments formed in those metings are specifically designed to fail. Somalia is nothing more an aid project and a modern day colony with foreign governors. I don't for a second buy this argument that foreign machinations are to blame for our seemingly perpetual failure to achieve peace and form a functioning government. I lay the blame solely and squarely on the shoulder of the political calooshood u-shaqaysteyaasha who's only interest is personal gain, the narrowminded zealots with the AK-47s and RPGs who's only interest is to emulate the taliban, but also to a certain extent the indifferent somali diaspora. Of course one would have to be blind not to see the negative influences of the USA, Ethiopia, Eritrea and other entities like the UN, EU and AU (the Arab league doesn't give a fig) have had over the years, but at the end of the day, we can only blame ourselves. Somalis in the country and in the diaspora are still too divided to recognise we will stay the most failed country in the world unless we unite , put the nation's interests before our own and learn to compromise.

He makes a lot of sense, he gives a solid argument for the 'bottom up' approach, and i agree with him about reconciliation- there are no real clan-clan animosities, the chaos (including al shabaab) is all political- somalis just need to find and agree on a way to govern that is all inclusive and fair.

Congratulations to Amina Mohamed Whether we like it or not, the NFD and the ****** -both lands where Somalis have lived for centuries- are not in our hands, nor will they be anytime soon. Somaliweyn is our collective dream, but we are in a 20 year old nightmare which has seen our country dismembered and destroyed by us. This is why we respect the status of Somaliland as a de facto state-most people from this clan enclave rightly support their statehood because they want no part of the chaos and bloodshed which is plaguing the rest of Somalia. There is of course a minority which vehemently campaigns for permanent independence, a desire borne of utter greed (emphasised by the fact they wish to control regions not dominated by their clans and that are still loyal to a united Somalia), which they try to legitimise with a preposterous claim of s previous life as a full blown independent country. They know full well this "Independence" was a mere formality which lasted a few days and which was designed from the start to be followed by a non reversible union (The 1960 resolution called for independence of the protectorate from Britain AND unification with the rest of Somalia)- yet they insist on trying to deceive the rest of the world with it. There is no historical or legal case for permanent independence, nor will there ever be. Once we achieve a stable Somalia, one in which qabiil plays no part in its politics and cannot divide us, there will be no place for secessionist voices, because any somali knows that unity is in our best interest. With regards to Mogadishu- It was founded and built up by Somalis long before the Italians and i dare say that we built a fair few buildings in the 51 years since independence. It is sadly true that all the destruction is our own doing.

Dank je wel Adam! It is good also to see you active again, dont pay any heed to the short-sighted comments that some aim at you and your unfailingly interesting and engaging contributions to SOL- most of them have much less to offer.

Some of the posts in here have been very distasteful. From both sides. I agree with Chimera that some professional Somali women are more likely to marry non Somalis partly because of a lack of equal numbers of professsional Somali men within their social/working environments. However i do not think it a sign of sophistication, nor one of social advancement on her part or on the Somali community's part. It is not something to be proud of, but neither is it something to get worked up about. If anything it is something to ignore, because A) As a competent adult it is her decison whom she chooses to have a relationship with, and eventually hers will be the consequences. B) Unfortunately, it is inevitable that in a western society where Somali men are incredibly outnumbered, some of our young women will find themselves in relationships with non Somalis and non Muslims. Contrary to Prometheus' post (who interestingly presents neither verse nor quote to support the supposed ambigious nature of Islam's position on female interfaith marriage), Islamic scriptures make it clear that a muslim woman marrying a non muslim is not permissible, so we may not approve of it (certainly i do not approve of it) but our approval hardly matters to her or other young somali women in her situation. As with many things in life, it is down to the family to imbue their young men and women with sufficient knowledge, appreciation and respect for their Islamic and Somali heritage for them to favour relationships with muslims, and it is in our best interest that the overwhelming majority of these relationships are with other Somalis. We can learn a lot from Western liberal culture, but a blasé attittude towards whom our young men and women marry is not conducive to a strong, unified Somali diaspora, and more importantly is incongruous with our religion.

One thing that is making me very optimistic about our future, is the growing sense of Somalinimo amongst young somalis (particularly in the Diaspora), something which can only bode well for our hopes to see a functional nation in our lifetimes. We are an extremely long way away from realising peace in our country, let alone prosperity. Prosperity is something that for now will need to be placed on the back burner. It will insha'llah soon follow peace because as Chimera has mentioned, we have much and more in terms of economic and social potential: We have a manageable population size, many of whom (if we can get them back to their country that is) will have a Western education, we are in a geographically strategic position, possess Africa's longest coast line , we have potential for a booming tourism sector, we are gifted with significant amounts of mineral resources (incl. oil), and have an innovative and extremely entrepeneurial business community within the country and in the Diaspora. What we are lacking is not so much desire for peace, but IDEAS for peace. We need to be working towards political solutions for our Gordian knot: Clannism It was during Siad Barre's reign that clan affiliation really came to prominence as the political currency, in those days it was very much about individual clans vying for power and economic advantage (particularly towards the end of his time in power)- an atmosphere that lead to obscene levels of corruption, nepotism and paved the way for the atricious acts of violence that riddled his downfall and the bloody chaos that followed. In the 20 years this civil war has been raging on for, clannism has firmly established itself as our preferred tool of perpetual self-torment. It has lead to an endemic atmosphere of distrust amongs the older generations, and foiled all attempts to rescue us from our stagnation (as demonstrated by nearly 20 years of failed peace initiatives and feeble attempts at inclusive governments). It has made it impossible for our "politicians" to work together for a common good (something which involves empathy, compromise and acceptance of authority- concepts incompatible with clannism) in order to reach a political solution that can lead to even a semblance of peace and unity. It has also opened the back door for unhinged (don't mind the pun!) groups like the Al-Shabaab. Clannism is not something we can rid ourselves of; we will never be able to completely remove it from our politics- it is too deeply rooted an aspect of of our society. The only thing we can do and should be doing, is coming up with ways to marginalise its influence on government, in medieval Europe it was the seperation of church and state, its about time that in 21st century Somalia we see seperation of clan and state. We need to nurture this growing sense of Somalinimo in our youth, and hopefully it will bear fruit and result in something along the line of the Arab awakening we are witnessing at the moment; a popular uprising lead by our younger generations to kick start genuine attempts at reconciliation and the creation of a constitution which severely contrains the impact of clannism. These are the pre-requisites for peace and prosperity, and the kind of Somalia Chimera and the rest of us dream about.

body of a heptathlete isn't too much to ask for, surely oh and a sense of humour

Your cousin needs to get in contact with GP practices, hospital volunteering services, care agencies and nursing homes. He should try to get some help from his sixth form or start by asking at his own GP practice. He doesn't have to obtain his experience of healthcare from a hospital per se, and if he's planning to apply during this academic year, time is running out.

Not so long ago, one couple in my city hired a horse-drawn carriage. Don't know whether that's OTT but it certainly was a first for the Somali community!

Almost identical scenario to a particular Dave Chappelle joke 2:16

It seems those narrow-minded enough to pledge allegiance to qabiil (that is what it boils down to) would be of little use to Somalia anyway. But as the Roman poet Lucan once said : Alta sedent civilis vulnera dextrae (Deep are the wounds that civil strife inflicts) So there are many issues that need to be addressed before a large proportion of Somalis have real pride in their country.

Well boys, your days are numbered ...Of course all men will need to do is enslave a herd of surrogate mothers, and grow their own children from Oocytes derived from embryonic stem cells.

So it's true that she's a local here at SOL. No, i mean in real life, i'm certain she's related to a family friend