Summer time

I'm going to meet him soon.

Abtigiis;953157 wrote: Isn't this the central argument I have been advancing through the course of this thread? Maxaad ii daalinaysay kolkaa? Lmao, go back to my first post sxb, I agreed with you from the start but had to defend that same political opinion from being heckled, and after that was forced to defend the SFG from blatant political bias, otherwise there is no disagreement here, and my original intention was to welcome you back and do a drive-by post, nothing more nothing less. @Xiin - When has Madoobe and his team ever visited the capital of Somalia? The Federal government has send several delegations, even a high-ranking one in the form of the Prime-minister, but nothing similar has come from the other side, despite invitations from Mogadishu. However Madoobe and his team have visited Nairobi on numerous occassions. Now if they were a seccessionist group like Somaliland, I understand that they would prefer foreign capitals over the national one, but Jubbaland is supposed to be a federal state of Somalia, yet its leaders can't even muster the courage to visit their own capital. There is no way the President could place him under house-arrest without facing a major backlash, so please don't entertain that train of thought.

Hello.

I'm leaving for outside brother, rain-check, (though I already highlighted a few of the things Madoobe could do in good faith, in reply to the measures the government could do to entice the former into its fold presented by Abtigiis).

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Baashi;953125 wrote: Now what Chimera? Compromise; A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions. Haye, I'm dreaming.

I almost did then stumbled upon a road-block with regards to the system of shares.

Baashi;953110 wrote: ^ Nah! Abtigiis waa la habaabay Let's find out what makes Chimera tik! Here we go..Is Chimera loyal to Somalia the country or is he loyal to President Hassan and his government? Somalia. Where does he stand on dissent? There are some folks who believe deep down that dissent is the highest form of patriostism? If what Hassan is doing -- irrespective of the clan he hails or the party he belongs to -- seems to some (let say Madoobe or Faroole or Jawaari or other significant political figure in the current crop of high wheeler-Dealer class) practically unattainable or wrongheaded what are they supposed to do? Sing hail to the chief? Dissent if the government is corrupt, dissent if the government launches a degenerate conventional war, dissent if a government is non-inclusive, dissent if a government uses brutal force to impose its vision upon any specific region without the consent of the locals, but don't dissent because it has a clear national stabilization plan( which is its mandated right), don't dissent just because the PM and the President see eye to eye, don't dissent just because of perceived clan-hegemonies of which there is no substantiating evidence, other neat acronyms. If that line of inquiry does not make sense let me shoot it from different angle: If the very social contract that brought all the competing sides together is gradually modified (unilaterally) or its edicts ignored by one branch of government and corrective and constructive action is in order how does one go about this? Somali leaders lack of close communication, and political decorum pisses me off.

Abtigiis;953091 wrote: Oh! Chimera! what are statistics without a timeframe or a baseline! These supposed achievements are for which duration? Since September 2012 when the new Government was elected or since last five years? Remember, we are juding the role this current administration has or had in the rise of donor funding, not whether donor funding per se is important or not! No, that is you moving the goal-post, this is what you said in a previous reply: Of course, your assertion that progress in these key areas will come or have came from donor money (international) is erroneous and not supported by evidence. -- Abtigiis I provided evidence on the contrary, though you rejected it, which is fine, but it still stands. I deal with figures and I can tell you up front what you quoted is trash! But you have the right to disagree with me and you are entitled to your maudlin gullibility. We all know about the Nairobi Maffia and their inflating figures, this doesn't mean a whole lot of our people aren't in dire need, or helped by these same agencies. My point was Somalia in its current predicament needs the international community, be it the donors or the humanitarian agencies. You're constructing a debate where your form of "evidence" is legitimate, but the ones I provide are false. A strawman festival if I ever saw one. We are only giving opinions on what they have done so far and the outlook. We are not writing the government off. So, calm down. As to whether the recognition of the Somali Government is actually for the "first time", I am not sure. Abdullahi Yusuf's government was recognized internationally. Sheikh Sharif was recognized internationally. That meeting with Obama and the wording that came out was not correct! No one cared to correct it, and the Hassan government actually printed the statement and posted on the walls of Mogadishu streets. So, again, I don't think it is a game-changer. Its a game-changer, and the wording was intentional and significant: "We have moved into a normal sovereign-nation-to-sovereign-nation position and we have moved into an era where we are going to be a good partner, a steadfast partner, to Somalia as Somalia makes the decisions for its own future." -- Hillary Clinton Cheers! What is a game-changer is the defeat of Alshabab and progress in setting up governance structures. That would be a victory, not a game-changer. No, I am not surprised by anything. But I will not congratulate the current government for achievements they have done nothing to contribute to. Not because I don't like the Government, but because it is wrong to give credit where there is none. Now your doing the same thing as NGONGE, and ignore all of the achievements that I had listed in the previous page, delivered in only 8 months. To pretend that it's nothing, is a biased exaggeration to the least. Good news. But financial reforms in Mogadishu, while good, are not game-changers, as I outlined above. Changing the unfavorable geo-politics exemplified by Ethiopia's and Kenya's meddling and bringing the feuding clans together is the game-changer. Financial reforms in the capital of Somalia is another building block to get the country out of its current state of dependency be it economically or military. You did not show any evidence for your assertion, but I am fine with it. The Federal government has maintained and gained more land under its control than the previous admin, unless there is a parallel world where Al-Shabaab has regained the capital and other cities such as Merka, Barawa and Baidoa? In any case, security is really in the hands of others and the government is a follower in that front! Hahahahaha, this made laugh sxb, you know why? You dismiss all of my examples where the government is reasserting itself economically, internationally and military through reforms, funds, diplomatic relations and defense, but then with the same breath demean that government for being in the current position it finds itself in because of the legacy of previous administrations. You refuse to give credit for their achievements because the seeds were laid by previous governments, but want them to take full responsibility for their current status regardless of the mess that came before them, a strawman festival indeed. I was talking about Sheikh Sharif's Government, not him as a person, the same way I am talking about the Hassan government when I refer it President Hassan, and not the man himself! At least use -administration behind their names, or nobody but you will know. It is vital but if you visit Hargeisa and Garowe, the growth and development you immediately feel is what the locals built! Agree about most of the infrastructure being from previous central government, but then where did I say regions should go by themselves? I did not argue that if regions are fine, we don't need a national government! I realize that the return of the central Somalia state is indispensable, but that it may return in different shape and format! at least for now! I don't reject the concept of Jubbaland, I simply don't like how the situation is being handled. That Old Somalia is dead is something I have accepted years back, but this doesn't mean a better one can't be shaped. However if there is no compromise, and only mistrust, then forget about it. Straw man fallacy! He who made that argument should step forward and defend it. Poor Abtigiis has nothing to do with it. Poor Abtigiis must have amnesia: Second, Somaliland and Puntland, have registered much more progress with lesser international backing. So, if peace returns to the Jubbaland, economic progress and socio-economic developments will be achieved. - Abtigiis This is you comparing the economic and developmental potential of a post-established Jubbaland with the decades old Somaliland and Puntland. Therefore it is YOU who must come forward and answer my previous reply. Ahlu sunna is not a region That much is clear, but they did dislogde Al-Shabaab from important areas, and still joined the Federal military, despite having the opportunity to create nacnac land. If Madoobe allowed his Ras Kamboni forces to come under the same jurisdiction, that's a step in the right direction. , and actually their man in Jubba is fine with the Jubbaland thing. Jubbaland leaders seem to be more conciliatory than Puntland vis-à-vis their relationship with the national government. The return of this or that delegation from the airport is the same as the daily humiliation government decrees face inside Mogadishu with District Chairman's refusing to accept it! Terrible analogy, makes no sense at all, please have another try. Why is it different to Galmudug? You know the answer! Refer to Ngonge's 'it is the clan ******' jingo! Bloody clan-system. This is true! it is shameful Ahmed Madoobe is running to Nairobi days after his election, validating that he is a stooge of foreigners! But in history, stooges shaped the destiny of countries. Sadly. Had Moses Tshombe not conspired with Belgian's to kill Lumumba, Congo's current predicament may have been averted! The import of this being that we need solutions to thwart this threat not curses! If assuaging the ego of Ahmed Madoobe can undermine Kenya's grand schemes, why not try it? I'm perfectly fine with Madoobe running the place if it means peace, I'm perfectly fine with Barre running the place if it means peace. I care not for these shady characters, but again it takes two to tango. If Madoobe had allowed the government a more visible and direct role in the election, what makes you think the same "majority" that voted him to win, would not do so under Federally sponsored election? You explain that to me. But one thing you should know is that had it been the case that it is only Ahmed Madoobe running to Nairobi with his community denouncing him as a traitor, it would have been easy. Definitely, the country is still crawling with selfish interests. The majority of SAHAL community will be cheering Ahmed Madoobe for running to the cocoon of Kenyatta. if this doesn't tell you, how deep the divisions in our community are, I don't know what else will help you see that predicament! The majority of SAHAL including nearly all of their representatives in the same National Government in Mogadishu, which you support! The same national government that tried to depose our excellent PM because of the Jubbaland project? Its only another sign that this government is all-inclusive, if various power-blocks are contesting their interests in the capital, peacefully and legitimately. Wake up! Here, I see you are dreaming. Very original. :cool: P.S. please don't mind the delivery of my message. It is not civil, I know it. But then if we all act in civil way in this forum, this place will be too serious and we will die of ennui. :D I saw nothing rude about it, and I agree.

Anyone ever set up a company with actual shares and everything? Please give your experiences and reference good books for info if possible. Much appreciated.

On both fronts, security and national healing, the performance of the national government so far is wanting! I reject this! Why are the leaders of Jubbaland so different from the leaders of Ahlu Sunnah with regards to the Federal government? Why are the leaders of Jubbaland so different from the leaders of Galmudug with regards to the Federal government? Why are the leaders of Jubbaland so different from the leaders of Puntland with regards to the Federal government? I see respect for the highest offices there, I see acceptance of the government's national and international status there. Each time a federal delegate was send from the capital they were turned back in a humiliating fashion, and when finally the PM tried to convince them to give the Federal government a more prominent role it was rejected. Why? The government never said at the time that the likes of Ahmed Madoobe could never be elected, so why the secrecy, the media-black out, the discussions with a foreign president when you pose as a regional admin, the sudden election? Its all too shady for me. Also, more than a million people have been liberated in the South since August in the form of urban hubs, towns and villages, while vital roads have been re-opened, piracy is down and nationwide security is much better today than it was in previous years, despite the few cowardice car-bombings here and there. That this was achieved with foreign muscle is irrelevant(a reality that was already there before the current admin), if the latter were to lose all of these gains to a resurgent Al-Shabaab, there would be only one entity blamed for this, not Amisom, not Al-Shabaab, not the regional states, not the international community, but the Federal government! I will do the same. But it seems as if you are confusing centralized government with national government! I want Somalia to have a solid and unified national government. But if the current reality is that regional states will continue to exist, then I am of the opinion that what you call a government is the sum total of these regional states! by the way, I am a centralist when it comes to the centralist-Federalist debate. But I think we should move in phases. Right now, the national mood is allergic to centralized system of governance. I'm referring to the Somali superstructure, the only one that can been seen on a international platform, and fight for our interests that are beyond individuals such as Ahmed Madoobe or Hassan Sheikh. The skeleton of this superstructure is now there, and recognized as such by the established superstructures of the world, but if we untangle it like we did the last one in 1991, expect twenty more years of this degenerate fate. How many times did I say Ethiopia, Kenya and foreigners are messing Somalia in this forum? So, you are preaching to the converted here. But that our main ailment is domestic and not foreigners meddling is also not a conspiracy theory or my flimsy concoction! So, tell me how we can sort out our mess, while we stand against foreigners at the same time. I will follow you. The Federal government is already asserting itself and defending our interests through independent stabilization plans, the reshuffle of governors and administrators, the reconstruction of Somali institutions such as the military, the police and the justice system, the alignment with important allies such as Turkey, and Qatar, etc Any of the previous administrations would have collapsed already, and engaging in political infighting, but this government stands strong and united as a diverse block of skilled politicians. I trust the intention of the national government too. I DON'T trust its competency to deal with the issues at hand. I don't trust what is happening in Kismaayo, but I don't think trust should be an issue in this matter. I want solutions. And I proposed one. President Hassan must accept the reality that is called Jubbaland and Ahmed Madoobe and his henchmen must adhere to the national constitution and give the national government the respect and the role it deserves. ONLY then, will we be able to stand up to Kenyan meddling. A house divided... I would accept Ahmed Madoobe's Jubbaland project on those terms, but unfortunately, the kind of respect you are referencing is only shown to Uhurro Kenyatta, a president of a foreign country and for that reason I am firmly behind the Federal government and trust their judgment on this issue, who through their policies and actions will deliver a scenario that's beneficial to the Somali people in the long term.

Abtigiis;952916 wrote: Chimera, you are equally if not more disingenuous because you are putting words into my mouth. No where in this debate did I imply that health, education and economic developments will not benefit ordinary Somalis. I got that impression when you picked the 'reclaiming of the airspace' point I made and ignored the rest, because those other points are and will affect(ing) Somalis in a positive way. Of course, your assertion that progress in these key areas will come or have came from donor money (international) is erroneous and not supported by evidence. One example, the UK: - Functioning health facilities supported by UKaid increased from 15 to 60 - Proportion of under-five children fully vaccinated increased from 45% to 65% - Use of contraception increased from 1% to 10% - At least 45,000 sustainable jobs created, of which 15,000 will be for women - £6 million in private investments mobilised, and the business environment improved through infrastructure projects - 16 districts supported to expand access to basic services, and the number of people accessing security and justice increased by 50% - 500,000 people a year provided with basic humanitarian assistance --- UKGov That is real progress, and through donor money. First, Somalia has enough resources, which if marshaled responsibly, can transform its people. Primarily, it needs peace and the creation of an enabling environment for growth and investment, over and above donor money. Oh, don't entice me with what Somalia is capable off, or I'll find myself in a perpetual state of daydreaming, and the wax-fahan crew would protest. But I do not dispute international support will help, although no major changes from the international donors really happened after the formation of the Federal Government. We are discussing the Federal government as if this is its second term, its only been in power for less than a year. However the absolute vital recognition of the Somali government for the first time in decades is a serious game-changer, and now we are in a period where the government is signing deals and attending conventions for reconstruction and development funds. Only when those have been green-lit and spend for the benefit of the average Farah or Halimo in a transparent manner can we say whether the government or international donors put their money where their mouth was. 99% of donor money is still channeled through humanitarian and development non-governmental agencies! Are you really surprised by that after the decades of shameless tuugnimo eminating from Villa Somalia? This Federal Government did not start with a clean slate in their eyes, it had to contend with the fact that the highest offices and the whole Somali political scene in the country was utterly tarnished by the corruption of previous administrations. Through reforms and other measures it has managed to regain the trust of donors, and now they are waiting in line to support the government. So, I do not know why you imply the little progress in Mogadishu has to do with the current government. Security improvements -largely due to international support - allowed for Somalis to invest in their country and if you are giving that credit to Hassan Sheikh, so be it. Maintaining security and progress is just as important as establishing security and progress. The Federal government is improving and expanding upon the work of previous admins, as a national government should, Somalia is more important than any single administration. I would have thought Sheikh Sharif laid the foundations for the serious engagement of the international community! Truthfully Sheikh Sharif was going nowhere during his period with Nur, but he was lucky to have two Prime-ministers that were both competent and skilled managers to take vital steps forward. Second, Somaliland and Puntland, have registered much more progress with lesser international backing. Actually the EU, UK and US support in terms of development for these regions is absolutely vital, and contributes in major way to their progress. However neither Somaliland nor Puntland can match the capabilities of a national government recognized by the world and with access to funds that could transform those regions. In fact all of their heavy infrastructure, be it roads or deepsea ports date back to the previous central governments. So, if peace returns to the Jubbaland, economic progress and socio-economic developments will be achieved. It would be erroneous to assume that Jubbaland can immediately be compared to regions like Somaliland or Puntland, the latter are decades old and went through a lot to get to where they are today. Do the people of the Jubbas have another decade or two to spare before actual concrete development is ushered in? You need the Federal government for that, and having your regional president ignoring that same entity is not wise. I am in no way belittling the very crucial role a fully-functioning national government plays to speed up economic recovery, growth and transformation, but I am alerting you to the fact that economic development and health and education are not a factor of the typology of government that exists (regional/national), they are a factor of the quality of governance! Be it at national level or regional level. I agree to a certain extent. Third, my point was that without security and national healing, any progress be it economic or diplomatic is prone to reversals and is not sustainable. Absolutely!

Mustafe;952205 wrote: I have not read any of your comments lest some of you spoil something. And I'm not looking forward to watching the series unless I have finished reading all the books, its just not worth it, even though people are telling me the adaptation is really good. I read the first two books in 3 weeks, and I have to say I feel really sorry for those people who had to wait 5 years in between each book lol. After A Dance With Dragons, prepare for a 5 year wait.

Tallaabo;952564 wrote: You are right about that. Chimera's enthusiasm is well placed but the truth is the Somali Republic of the 1980s had all that he listed and much more yet disappeared into the dustbin of history because of internal problems. There is a huge difference, the Federal government is using legitimate means to further its interests. Today it announced guns would not decide the fate of that region, and that's nothing like the militaristic bravado and actions of the regime in the 1980s.

Abtigiis;952483 wrote: But his list of achievement of the government is selective and exaggerated. I deal with some of the things he ascribed for the government and the government's role is pathetic. These are milestones any previous administration would have died for, and to consider them pathetic is an exaggeration. I replied to NGONGE's statement that this government is "incompetent", because this list contradicts that statement. Furthermore, all of the things he listed are the least that worry me now. The main political issues that can make or break Somalia are not in Chimera's list. I agree with you about the criticality of addressing the internal problems rather than exaggerate the international gains, which in the real sense amount to nothing and do not change the living conditions of Somalis. Giving Somalia's airspace from UNDP to government is an inconsequential and symbolic victory, whose lustre will fade in few weeks. It means little to the millions of Somalis suffering from war and hunger. The healthcare, education and economic reforms will positively benefit millions of Somalis, in the form of schools, hospitals/immunization campaigns, trade and agriculture, investment funds and reconstruction projects. A new state in the Jubbas would not be capable of providing such drastic changes that the Federal Government through its international gains and reconstructed institutions will be capable of delivering. That you chose the "control of airspace" out of that long list of achievements is disingeneous Abtigiis, and you know it. Also, if I have to choose between the total absence of government or a government that has political issues with a certain region(still largely under the yoke of Al-Shabaab), but at the same time is making serious progress, I will always choose the latter option, 10 out of 10 times. That there are foreign interests in Somalia undermining the Federal government, be it Ethiopian or Kenyan interests is not a conspiracy theory, unless we consider Siad Barre's hand in Ethiopia's past misery as a fairy tale, we passed on to the next generation. I trust this government, I don't trust what's happening in Kismayo, that's my position.

NGONGE;952481 wrote: Chimera, War don't give me a full defence of your person dee. I am not too bothered about your noble positions regarding clans, uncles or countries. I only deal with the words you write and how I preceive these words. If you choose to discuss politics (which you have done there and repeated by making the Democrat/Republican analogy above), dee don't get all worked up and you're pulled up on it, saaxib. I'm defending my right to express an opinion in a political discussion without being heckled with red-herrings. I expect that from the many one-dimensional trolls roaming here, not you. p.s. The government are doing well but the house of cards they're building will come tumbling down unless they do something about the internal problems. Wax fahan. I disagree, otherwise the ICU or Al-Shabaab would still reign in Somalia, but they don't, precisely because they failed to establish an international presence compatible with the rest of the world, unlike the Federal government.

NGONGE;952359 wrote: ^^ Err..you claimed that Somalia has the right government when all facts show this government to be nothing but incompetent. Thus, yours must be a daydream. Don't worry about my latent anger issues or whatever new visions that appear in your head about me, adeer. I am simply giving you my understanding of your positions and words. Finally, puff and substance? From YOU? I'm starting to think you're nothing but a troll warya. Rubbish, if a Democrat says the Obama administration is the right government for America, that is a political opinion, regardless of the so-called "facts" a Republican would pull out of his pants. Your attempt at morphing my political opinion into a day-dream is a clear sign of your intellectual bankrupt argument in reference to me. I support the Federal Government for very important concrete reasons and principles that aren't based on whether the man at the top is my petty uncle, or whether my crappy clan holds the PM seat. All of those day-dreams I displayed from 2006 onwards are coming to fruition slowly but surely, and that is all that matters to me. This Federal government is far from incompetent, 1) It regained our national airspace, which means more funding for the Federal budget that in turn will result in better delivery of services. 2) It regained our overseas assets. 3) Its the first government with the widest political reach in 22 years, and its capacity is growing with an impressive National Stabilization plan. 4)It established and maintains a amicable dialogue with Somaliland, instead of degenerate war-talk so characteristic of Somali political discourse. 5)Its building its military, with an established road map, in the form of 28 thousand professional Somali soldiers, and a established finish date. 6)It has secured funding to double the Somali police force to 12 thousand men. 7) It has convinced the Security Council for the first time in 22 years to lift the arms-embargo. 8) It is the first government in 22 years to re-establish formal relations with all of the major powers of the world, such as the US and the UK, and several dozen others. 9)It has initiated an ambitious health-care reform, that will transform the healthcare sector, including innovative immunization projects. 10) It has put into motion a education plan that will put the majority of Somali children back into class-rooms, 40 state-sponsored schools have already been re-opened. 11) An important Independent Task Force on Human Rights was introduced by the government, which will be followed by a permanent Human Rights Commission. 12) It twarted Kenya's bid at receiving funding for a naval component at the expense of Somalia's reconstituted navy. 13) It rejected IGAD's Stabilization plan and won international support for the independent Somali devised plan for national stabilization. 14) Its the first Somali government that successfully co-hosted a major conference on Somalia attended by 50 countries. 15) The Federal Government's FM Fawzia H. Adam convinced multiple countries to re-establish their embassies in Mogadishu, and has reopened Somali embassies abroad. 16) It has re-energized and equipped the Central Bank of Somalia with competent individuals at the helm, and is in the process of a major overhaul that will not only for the first time give an accurate picture of the Somali Economy since the 1980s, but will also result in the stabilization of the increasingly strong Somali currency. 17) A new Public Finance Management Policy was introduced and passed for adoption, to keep Somalia's national spending transparent and devoid of corruption 18) The Federal Government's PM initiated a successful listening tour across the volatile South, central and northeastern parts of the country which was well received despite the political forks in the road at certain places that remain. 19) It re-established ties with the World Banc, IMF and the African Development Bank. 20) It signed an important "New Deal" with the G-7 countries which will allow the country to receive funds for reconstruction and development. 21) A major tree-planting program was initiated by the government, 22) The first government in two decades to address and devising plans to return and uplift the refugees in foreign countries, and the IDPs inside the country. 23) It re-established the Somali Post Company for the first time in two decades. 24 - The UN Mission to Somalia was relocated directly to Mogadishu after years of operating as the Nairobi Maffia in Kenya. 25 - No infighting between the top leaders of the government, be it the president, the prime-minister, the foreign minister or the speaker of the house. This is a MAJOR difference, and perfect example of why this government is both competent, and well suited to lead Somalia out of this darkness. There are many more points, but a non-biased individual can clearly see that my support for the Federal Government is well-rooted and based on actually substance, with not a single point based on a day-dream, this is reality. These points are exactly what I have been praying for since 2006, and finally its materializing. This is a government that has only been in power for less than 9 months, and its already delivering concrete results that is changing the way the world is addressing and engaging Somalia. Does that mean the government is perfect? No government in the history of mankind was, nor in the present, or the future will ever be. The Jubba situation is complex but it takes two to tango, and one cannot just place the blame on the government, or engage in silly conspiracy theories about a single clan domination. I do not entertain such theories, I focus on what's actually happening on the ground. The Jubba situation will not untangle the momentum or the reconstruction drive both in the capital and other parts of the country. There will be a compromise one way or another, both sides have too much at stake to degenerate into a deadly conflict, with Al-Shabaab still lurking around, and one or two egos will surely be wounded, but the country will be the better for it. While you will deny it, but this is the best time to be someone that once dreamed of a better Somalia, because its actually happening: - You have countries re-embracing Somalia as a long lost friend in the form of dozens of accredited ambassadors. - You have billion dollar companies itching to invest in the country. - You have hundreds of thousands of Somalis from the diaspora returning for HOLIDAYS! - You have the capital of the country transforming into one big construction zone. - You have festivals, sports and other social-events happening across the country that depict a better aspect of Somali society. - You have the extremists on the run, and piracy all but wiped out. - You have admirable healthcare and education plans in motion. - You have Somali military and police-force that is becoming stronger, potent and more professional with each passing month. - You have roads and farms reopening, and a increasingly more food-secure country. - You have the Somali Basket Ball team winning games in Africa, and the Somali Taekwondo team winning games in Europe - You have children going back to school. - You have families sojourning at the beach and shopping at new malls. etc. Its clear NGONGE that it is you who is living in a self-imposed nightmare where all of the above is non-existent. Since we are being truthful with eachother, aren't you the one who confessed that you dumped your blue flag under the bed for a different one? Why should I believe anything you contribute with regards to the Federal Government that represents that same blue flag? Should be as simplistic in my reasoning as you by pidgeon holing you, the way you stereotype me as a day-dreaming, by depicting you as a simple spoiler bathing in the nightmares of utter schadenfreude? That would actually make more sense than the non-sequitur you threw at me in the previous post.

NGONGE;952352 wrote: Chimera, this is a political discussion and your dreams don't fit into such a discussion. You rephrased a political point I made, and then threw a little jab at me for dreaming, you don't see the logical fallacy in this? Of course, I can play the A&T game and stroke your ego with empty words about your amazing nationalism and what not. But I chose to tell you the truth, saaxib. Yours are nothing but daydreams. This is amusing, it seems NGONGE has latent anger issues with me, even in a topic where I displayed nothing close to a day-dream he attacks me with a knee-jerk reaction about dreams and what not. p.s. Your reply that you quote above is new to me (can you share the link of the thread so that I can at least see the context). Still, it is neither here nor there, saaxib. Even when you attempt to do an analogy between me and you, it is still a daydream of yours about pregnant women and how I would approach them. For the record, I neither will waste my time with the past nor the future, adeer. My main concern (and any normal person who is neither Somali nor a daydreamer) would be with the PRESENT. Wax fahan. What a pathetic reply, your all puff but no substance adeer.

Let's get something clear brother, 1) You don't know me. 2) You don't know what i'm doing. 3) You don't know what I have planned. In any case, I said what I wanted to say on this issue.

Waranle_Warrior;952312 wrote: What is the point of keeping the land and saying 'DHULKEENA' 'Anaga/Reerkeena baa dega dhulkaan' if you are not utilizing the land and are dying out of hunger. We should give it away and at least get some money for it or get ready learn how to plough and cultivate the land. Very simplistic sxb, the lack of cultivation of our arable land is due to war, otherwise the planned dams and modernization of the agricultural sector owned and driven by the Somali people would have yielded major harvests annually. What you're promoting is a continuation of war through the land-grabbing schemes witnessed in other parts of Africa, where the natives were uprooted violently, and this equals civil-strife. What you should be demanding is joint-ventures between foreign and Somali companies. What you should be demanding is the establishment of a commodities/futures exchange where prices are set, so that the markets remain stable for the farmers, traders and customers. What you should be demanding is the establishment of Somali trade-unions, and Federal agricultural subsidies to protect the average Farah or Halimo from predatory interests from abroad, and domestically. Your approach is reactionary, and short-term, you need to go back to the drawing board brother, because years and decades pass in an instance, and you don't want to be in a situation where you are sold back your own produce at a higher rate than you would've, had you protected the agricultural sector as a national security issue, and subsequently invested in it accordingly.

Great stuff, Aaliyah!

Taleexi;952261 wrote: Quite contrary if Somalia stays as fractured nation as it is, it is not that far of up until each clan cosign venture foreign nationals. Nuune, the above post by Taleexi is another side of the flawed "Somali character" we must not forget. Deepak, with his billion dollar fund could spare a few suitcases filled with dollars to buy up the petty illiterate chieftains for his end goals. I count on the Federal Government and organisations such as EAEF (or its future agricultural equivalent) to block any such deal.

^The strange part is that I displayed no sign of "dreaming" in this topic, and NGONGE actually rephrased my point that there is more involved than just the leadership. (i.e getting historically proven leaders like Washington, Churchill or Mutsuhito instead of Mohamud wouldn't change the situation), hence I resented that jab. When I dream its quite clear, and I own up to it with pride.

nuune;952237 wrote: Chimera, don't worry brother, I don't think any sane Somali living around Afgooye, Jamaame, Jilib and Bu'aale will allow this to happen even if the Somali government agrees to give land to the mentioned companies, kulahaa supply food, and the food will be farmed in Somalia, this is the motherr of all tuugnimo. Indeed, the below must never happen in Somalia: