The Zack;877089 wrote: Some people are just out of touch! Or some are simply not myopic. Some thing Somalia is the UK . A flourishing civilization driven by a strong national identity? I would never confuse the two. Clan is everything in Somalia. Which is why Somalia is not a flourishing civilization driven by a strong national identity, and instead is a basket-case. Like it or not. Who the F would like the current situation outside of clan-cheerleaders and their chieftains? One can claim Xasan is a clanist, Not without tangible proof. why is Hiiraan any different from Kismayo? Kismayo has been the most hotly contested city in Somalia, only Mogadishu could come close to the almost non-stop power-struggles that happened there. Logic dictates that for there to be long-term stability in that city and surrounding regions, some areas of the country need to be treated with more care than others. Adeer the "president " is human and will be criticized and spoken against when he does wrong. The so call That is your right, people seem to confuse my respect for the office with thinking President Hassan as a person is untouchable. Not at all, if he messes up in the next four years, people will be harsh on him, and fair enough to that. However this is a matter of sovereignty, and this is a city under his jurisdiction, Mogadishu is the seat of the government, not Nairobi, and Kismayo is not Garissa. Kenya will be gone before their potential powderkeg general election arrives, and the Federal army is going to grow in strength, My advise is to consult with the Federal government on this issue, and have the conference inside Somalia. This is a solution put forward by analysts covering the situation for a long time. We cannot tolerate two to three years down the line people taking up arms again because one group strong-armed all others only because they had a neighbour supporting them. That is unacceptable.

This topic really shows how skin-deep the disease of qabiil is, you will have grown men cloaking a national flag whenever they seek to criticise Somaliland or Puntland for disloyalty or disrepect, but once their own regions are in the spot-light, the President and all the symbols of the state are corrupt fools and institutions who need to stay out of their affairs, bloody clan-anarchists! They can be found in every section of the country. An autopsy of their bodies would reveal a complete undiscovered organ fuelling this backwards mentality. Kismayo could be one of the greatest cities in Africa, but this animalistic territorial crap keeps dragging it further into the abyss. Kenya will be gone before their general election, if you putting all your cards on 'military force', you might end up losing everything.

I think I saw those planes in the movie Red Tails, set in World War Two. The Chopper and uniforms are sweet though. Their operations should be documented on film.

Haatu;876861 wrote: Somalia, war no way. You should change yours too. Desert-men are trying to take our city Chimera, the Government has the jurisdiction, Ras Kambooni is just confused when it comes to this, but the wishes of the people have to be respected as well . The policy of the government towards that region and its new governance structure should be entirely based on their wishes. I'm however against ignoring the most important offices in the republic, such as the President, PM and the parliament. All three should be consulted with, they are there for a reason, and they should not be discredited. Remember, that's the whole reason why we are in this mess in the first place.

Kenya and IGAD reportedly sought to ensure that the new city administration be broad-based and devoid of warlords. This was an excellent move, but the deal was brokered at a time when Somalia's national transitional process appeared to be headed toward delays, impasse, and crisis. This situation arguably justified outside powers taking it upon themselves to negotiate a local power-sharing deal in advance of the city's liberation. But the political context in Somalia has changed dramatically since September, when an appointed parliament elected a new president, Mohamud, and ended an eight-year transitional government. Somalia is now technically in the hands of a sovereign, post-transition government. Under these new circumstances, IGAD and the Kenyan forces should seek the guidance of Mohamud's administration regarding who governs Kismayo. - Ken Menkhaus, FP Kismayo and Jubboyinka are under the Federal government's mandate, and jurisdiction, it could seriously derail any plans on the ground if its not consulted with beforehand, again the FGS is not the TFG, and you will understand the difference of the two entities in the near future.

The whole area in the red circle including the yellow building should be demolished And be replaced by a city square. A smaller version of the Jinan's Spring square could really transform Hargeisa because it lacks a proper 'heart' at the moment.

A Somali man in his 40s asked where could find a marfish. I said 'over there at that house', then walked away and watched from a distance. He walked straight into a hagbad session haha, a real lolocaust!

RedSea;876661 wrote: One q. How would be the cost in your estimate both in terms of man power and money that something like this would require? Professional check-point. I estimate a professional check point with two rectangular buildings to cost no more than $200000, especially if a local company is employed to set up the gates and buildings. Professional soldiers. Thirty disciplined Somali soldiers at each check point. In Mogadishu's case, there are two main roads and a minor one that lead into the city. That would mean ninety soldiers manning the first line of defense for the city. Their salaries should be between $500 to $1000 to keep them content, and capable of supporting their own families while doing a national duty. 90 X $500/1000 = $45000/$90000 a month = $540000/1080000 a year. That's pocket change and could easily be funded through port revenues and taxes, Instead of overstretching the few manpower we have at the moment, maintaining a monopoly on the most important routes into a city would be a far more efficient way of using the little resources we have. if this were to happen at every city and town in the country, with a system of taxation paying for the construction of the check-points and salaries of the soldiers, we would be owning our own destiny. Armoured vehicles at the every check-point. Al-Shabaab's kryptonite has always been heavy hardware and armour, because each time the 'peacekeepers' patrolled without it, they were horribly massacred. When the Somali military purchases serious military hardware for the future army next year, small divisions of Somali soldiers with armoured vehicles should hold the fort at the check-points until enough Somali men and women have been trained to project power countrywide. The fund for the reconstruction of the Somali Armed Forces would cover this. Monitoring systems to cover an established perimeter, This could be funded with the taxation from Telecommunication companies, which owe the government around $50 to $100 million a year. This system of motion sensors, CCTV and patrol teams of ten Somali police officers would need only a fraction of that sum to get that security program up and running. Once they detect a specific movement outside of the main roads and minor ones, they would be send out to check. If the ones using unconventional ways to get into city are herders, they would be checked quickly then allowed to proceed, if these are more sinister groups, these patrol teams would sound the alarm and engage them. In total, in the case of Mogadishu, this system would cost around two million in the first year, and 1.5 million annually in the following years. The Port of Mogadishu in its current state makes more than that on a monthly basis and its not even touching its real potential. This is not a unrealistic proposal, unless professionalism and organisation are traits that Somalis lack? Well, I refuse to believe that for I don't suffer from an inferiority complex, or believe only foreigners can provide security. When Somalis are guided in the right direction, receive proper training, salaries and fight for a good cause, they are a force to be reckoned with. This is the most cost-effective way to deal with the interregnum period of a professional Somali military. Stability and security is expensive, countries world-wide spend tens of billions annually to make sure their citizens are safe. I'm proposing that we redirect the most disciplined Somali soldiers to protect the main urban hubs and agricultural centers so we can safely generate serious wealth and allow the government to purchase all it needs to project power nationwide, and provide services. Day in, day out, you see individuals on this forum mocking the state-apparatus for relying on foreigners for help, a schadenfreude for its current dependency out of clan or political reasons, should I then be surprised that my proposal is mocked as well? Not really, I actually anticipated it, next!

Apophis;876632 wrote: Since when has ego stroking ever been referred to as "theoretical exercise"? I created a topic to discuss an idea, since when is that 'ego-stroking'?. Oh wait, I must have accidently added a picture of myself alongside my personal accomplishments and then had a case of amnesia. Thank you for reminding me. The shell is impressive (as evidenced by the fawning from other SOLrs on this thread) It seems your issue is with the reception extended to the original post of mine by the other members, rather than the content itself, take it out on them. but it's hollow. Latent anger much? You speak with such authority, its amusing. You're stating the obvious. Of course there should be checkpoints, especially the situation the country is in but in no way would this be referred to as a "closed city". A sealed off city, is a closed city. Its our version of the concept, it is us who will refer to it as such. Think outside of the box, and be independent in making a new definition of the concept, instead of having to seek approval and recognition from a Western source. Besides, even if your idea was implemented it would offer no more security than now. Shabab, converting to insurgency tactics, would still be able to infiltrate any "closed" city and cause havoc. They would be severely limited in their operations, far greater than they are today. If we achieved even 1% more security through this measure, then its one worth taking. The country needs to build it forces and, through extensive education programs, "unwash" the Wahabi brainwashing of the last 20yrs. This is how you kill Shabab or their type. What about the 60 thousand + gunmen who drink, watch porn, don't pray and care little about education. How would you 're-educate' them in a unsecured conflict zone? You can't! This is where a secured city comes into play, where a safe environment for our real culture, and traditions can flourish, and education can thrive. These gunmen could make a new life in this secured city, when they leave behind their weapons at the check-points. (all of the arms-markets btw would be shut down in a closed city) India has a dozen liberations armies roaming its country, but you don't know it, because all of the cities are well protected.

Jacpher;876618 wrote: Somalia does not need physical barriers to achieve peace and security. Nicely twisting the idea behind the concept, well done. A thief or a murderer might see a neighbourhood with a manned gate as a 'barrier', but I can assure you to the residents its the direct opposite. We already have clan barriers and that doesn't seem to be helping. I don't think we hate each other to the point of requiring closed cities to live together. Our problem is not hatred or animosity. Regardless of clan differences, Somalis are one people with same culture, religion and language. The problem is political instability and walling off each city isn't gonna fix that. This will work in places like Israel/Palestine or Nigeria where they are burning down a mosque or church every few weeks. Jacpher, what the hell? These professional check-points would be implemented as protection against Al-Shabaab/offshoots and roaming gunmen. What's all this 'Somalis are one people' coming from? Al-Shabaab doesn't care about politics, clans or Somali interests, they are pure destructive force, and they need to be kept out permanently. My whole idea behind this concept was that this policy would ensure investment was safe, and Somalis from all walks of life could prosper in a stable environment.

Apophis;876625 wrote: I see a lot of fancy rhetoric but nothing of substance. As opposed to the dismissive rhetoric with no substance from you? Mine is a theoretic excercise, yours is a lazy form of contributing to a discussion. You're devising a very complicated system to solve a simple problem of insecurity. We do not need to wall off cities so as to protect them. Nothing complicated about having all the major roads into every city manned by a professional check-point, I don't know why you make it seem that way. The country needs to build up it's police and military capability and this should be enough to help reduce the threat of Shabab and their ilk. Sierra Leone, Angola, Rwanda Liberia have experiences similar to ours. We should follow their examples. Somalia isn't unique and neither does it have the resources to implement what you're suggesting. Lets stay in reality. You have taken the Soviet analogy way too far, nobody is asking for massive walls and watch-towers. Instead thirty professional soldiers for each check-point would be enough. This is a temporary solution until the army and police forces are back to prewar levels. However this 'let's watch the situation and do nothing' attitude your promoting is backwards and something we endured the last two decades. Somalia's issues are unique in Africa, and are paralled only in Afghanistan and Iraq in complexity. The concept of closed cities would result in all the intermediary towns becoming 'closed towns' and the surrounding regions 'closed regions' until you have a fully secured and flourishing province.

Apophis;876608 wrote: This is a nutty idea. First you'll be alienating the population from each other. Wake up, they are already alienated, in-fact they have been pushed into other countries. A closed city that is a strong economic hub with stability could have absorbed those populations if this policy had been put into place five years ago. It will take about four to five years before Somalia has trained all the necessary manpower to provide countrywide security, but for now the main revenue generating national assets should be given priority. Al-Shabaab is assymetrical, and their hit-and-run tactics in the capital not only are devastating, they are demoralizing, no matter how much hope and optimism thrives, if car-bombs go off on a weekly basis, nobody will invest and nobody will feel safe, they will only be desensitized. You may create security but at the expense of giving the mayor (who can choose who to let in according to you) extensive powers which can be open to abuse ( Mayor from clan A may choose to let in more As than Bs). Don't be silly. your clan is not written on your forehead, how could he even allow or refuse thousands of people in or out based on their clan, when its government soldiers answering to Villa Somalia manning the checkpoints? You think I would propose such a corrupt system if a mayor serving the diverse inhabitants of our cities could play clan-politics? I was clearly referring to armed groups, such as the clan-militias currently still in the capital undercover and worrying Tarzan and the civilians. They would be disarmed or escorted out and wouldn't be allowed back in. Economically it's also not viable. You will essentially be blocking roving nomadic business from the city (time spent going through your heavy checkpoints means money lost). Why do you pretend as if the current set-up is economically viable? Not only is this 'roving nomadic business'' destructive to the city surroundings, they are a serious burden on a unsecured city, and make pocket-change compared to what they could really make with investment and a good economic plan. However if stability is assured in the form of a closed city/region, lots of investment would flow in, more live-stock treatment facilities would spring up, and sustainable wells could be drilled providing water and grazing pastures all year long. And finally, for a major city such as Mogadishu, it would be impractical. The population is too huge to be boxed in. The whole city doesn't pack its bags in the evening and returns in the morning, the vast majority is pretty much static, and the check-points would easily be capable of handling trade- trucks, travelling groups and individuals. The closed city was a Russian idea of the '40s, thought up by a paranoid state and leader. It was meant for cities whose purpose was entirely linked to the defence of the state (such as cities manufacturing war-planes, tanks etc) it wasn't meant for major urban centres. This cities weren't even on maps as they were classified. Yeah I read that too on wikipedia, tell me something new. The idea in the case of Somalia is sound. Do we have the manpower to provide total security across the whole country? No! However we could devise a plan where specific cities and areas of the country are completely protected so as to generate the necessary wealth to not only stand on our own two feet, but in the case of the government exert a monopoly of military force and ensure security/stability.

Closed cities were specially designed urban hubs in the Soviet Union protecting important national assets and individuals. It was a bulwark against potential foreign attacks and spies. In Somalia today, where we are plagued by demonic creatures like Al-Shabaab and khat-induced gunmen, the solution for optimum security for civilians, businesses and investment would be closed cities. Imagine all the major urban hubs like Mogadishu, Bosaso, Hargeisa, Garowe, Berbera, Kismayo and Galkacyo completely sealed off on all sides, and the entire populations of those cities disarmed. Not only would the mayors of those cities dictate who could come in or go out, and prevent the influx of sinister groups, the unchecked flow of arms would be a thing of the past through rigorous searching sessions. You might say, but Chimera, this would only result in large scale isbaaros, but I say; not really. If every check-point is manned by Alpha Group soldiers, you would have a very disciplined force securing these cities. They're already responsible for total security of the capital during major events. Secondly these same soldiers when relieved of their shift would be thoroughly searched as well so that their is no doubt that they are clean and have not enriched themselves with the wealth of citizens. If we could maintain this for at least five years, especially in the Southern and central cities, we would have vibrant urban hubs where investment is welcomed, where culture is flourishing and tourists can flock to in big numbers. A similar solution could be implement in the fertile regions of the country, with plantations completely cordoned off and their supply routes heavily protected all the way to the panamax ports of Somalia. All the check-points would be professional ones, not the rag-tag we see today. Compare them to border-control points, with high-tech hardware that can detect bombs, weapons and other potentially harmful materials. Each road leading into the city should have something like this at the start, the first line of defense and prevention: Car-scan

General Duke;876526 wrote: ^^^ There were four gunmen, three were killed and one wounded was captured. I don't thi k this will halt any development project. The man is actually being treated in a Turkish build clinic and recovering well.. Insha Allah Khair. These are paid gunmen, they always are, and they are carrying out an agenda. If these were Germans or Americans, all developmental projects would be cancelled and all staff flown out, but luckily these are the Turks. Please check my new topic for the solution.

^Add another 20 exploration wells and you'll have a commercial discovery in Puntland mid 2013. The likes of Range, Emperor and AfricaOil should be given priority at the licencing round, they invested tens of millions of dollars when most of the world wrote Somalia off as a no-go zone.

Ah f.ck, TIKA is a major construction company, with serious real-estate plans for Somali cities, this is a major setback. These gunmen have masters, and they are first class saboteurs, they need to be hunted down.

Need to make time to get a heartscan, you can look healthy from the outside but might be dying on the inside, Reminds me of Zyzz.

MMA, remember the historic Central Bank, it was completely destroyed, but then it was restored to its former beauty in a single year, albeit in a turqiouse colour rather than white. Many of the beautiful old buildings were located in conflict areas, and were only freed a year ago. Now we have to wait for the owners to returned, or for the government to generate the necessary funds to initiate a total reconstruction. DoctorKenney, one can walk and talk at the same time, you don't have to stop everytime you want to say something, nor do you have to be silent everytime you walk, the positives in your two options aren't mutually exclusive. Let the politicians focus on nation-building, I and many others will rather focus on making Somali cities the envy of the region fit for sobriquetes like the 'Jewel', and the 'Pearl' once again. There is more to nation-building than political conferences, it has to be accompanied by a 'strong culture', one that captures all of the age-groups of the state, from the old to the young, and this comes in the form of cinema, tv, radio, sports, etc, all of which are derelict today. You can't say put a hold on all of this just because two politicians have mistrust for one another, the larger populace is more important, and they respond better to clean and orderly cities, and a lively culture.

Sayid*Somal;876359 wrote: ^Are you saying Alpha's clan is minority? I don't even know what clan he's from, are they in your opinion? I am not the who said the president is from 'my somali clan' (it was you in case you forgot) The words are still there and that's clearly not what I said: Chimera;871722 wrote: I officially endorse the new president hailing from my clan called SOMALI . Seems like your clutching at straws sxb, my clan is the Somali people, all 20 million of them.

Me and the President from a crappy clan-perspective are hundreds of miles apart, I'm not tied to an outdated system, I rose above it. Secondly, I would welcome minorities in the top positions for that very same reason, for as long as they have the country's interest at heart. In-fact I would welcome a dynasty of Afars - our distant cousins - ruling the Kingdom of Somalia if that assured long-term peace. The world is talking about space-explorations, super-highways and gangnam style, while some of us are stuck in the Age of Istupidity.

Neither Hawa nor Nuruddin will ever win a Nobel prize, they will only be nominated as symbolic tokens. There is serious politics behind the selection process.

A Female Prime-minister, god bless her!

Mario B;876262 wrote: Kenya has no business creating Maamul Goboleeds in Somalia given that we have a territorial water dispute with them. [that is the business of Federal Gov in consultation with it's Citizens.] AMISON is here to provide security and not to meddle with internal politics. P.s Any Sijui/kenyan agent who disagrees with me can do this! LOL, people act like AMISOM are the Avengers and therefore have the right to dictate matters of politics that will have long-term ramifications on the country, how absurd. The only advantage they have over the Somali soldier is heavy armour green-lit by the Security Council. The transitional government couldn't lift the arms-embargo but the new government will and security will be a Somali business soon. For now we have reclaimed our political platform with the fresh faces, and it will be another milestone if a new regional state is erected between Somali stakeholders in the capital, and not a foreign city.

Maarodi;872206 wrote: I don't know if you can call this a meme but ... ( Source ) LMAO That's Abdi Osman the male model right? Dude's crazy.

The Zack;875929 wrote: Chimera, you are way too optimistic bro. You think that Hassan can build 40K Somali troops overnight. Any sane Somali would love to see that. Not really, ten thousand are currently trained and disciplined, another 30 thousand could easily be recruited in a single month from every corner in Somalia. If they were to be given training on a rotary basis in various Turkish academies, we would have a secure country in no time. The South needs around 10-15000 Somali soldiers supplied with tanks and helicopters to keep the peace. The other regional states are already sufficient for those areas, though the rotary program would benefit them in terms of upgrading discipline, and hardware. Al-Shabaab would be permanently defeated, and Piracy would be a thing of the past. Building an army is easy, but maintaining one is a different fish. However the president is correct to put his fist down on a regional administration that could potentially prove troublesome in the near future, in terms of loyalty, oil-rights and stability. The planned provincial administration is the way to go.