LOL, I don't work for Hiiraan.com, they made it smaller. He's still a tall brother though, only I wish he dressed in the classic white attire of the old presidential guards:

Never seen that one either, are you o.k Che?

SOMALI SELF-SABOTAGE, WE ARE OUR OWN BIGGEST OBSTACLES IN LIFE! http://allafrica.com/stories/201210090821.html

Che -Guevara;878447 wrote: Chimera.....I watched Elite Squid II over the weekend, it was good.....good choice mate. Ya? I have never seen such a movie, what is it about, government programmed super-squids? LOL.

The unprovoked attacks on Bluelicious from newbies are pretty creepy. Nin-Yaaban;878400 wrote: It's all steroids dude. I use to know this one guy in Minnesota who use to be skinny AF but some how put on at least good 50 - 70lbs of pure muscle in a short period of time. You can't tell me its' all from hard work and going to the gym. From what i remember, he didn't even like going to the Gym. Most people are starting to take stuff nowadays. Juicing. He's a professional bodybuilder, and even with steriods you have to train super hard and eat lots of food, just taking them won't make you that big. Everyday you have to go through the same routine of training and eating, it takes a lot of mind-power to sustain that physique and condition. Steriods only allow a person to recover faster after an intense work-out, and since he wants to compete with the world's best, then it makes sense that he would use them. For me I can only train chest once a week, but a person that uses performance-enhancements could easily train that body part twice a week, and make twice as many gains because the muscles recover faster.

Apophis;878201 wrote: ^^ Obama has utterly failed those who bought into the hype but that's not something I'm interested in debating. Neither am I, but the achievements speak for themselves. Yes, I call myself a realist in comparison to you; you seem to have decided already everything is back to normal and the Somali government and the country as a whole is back to it's feet and as strong, if not more so, than the kacaan government. That's insane. Don't twist my words, I didn't say today's Somalia is stronger than prewar Somalia, I said the Somalia currently in the making will be more 'robust' than the one during the Kacaan period, from politics, to economics, to society. Nothing insane about that. Didn't concede anything. You raised a point which we were in agreement with. I'm aware of Barre's government efforts in increasing women participation in all sectors of Somali life and it was commendable. I hope we go back to that. But remember, the military government forced that legislation through, I wonder if the current leaders will do the same without cowering to religious zealots. Not just the Barre period, the civilian governments were just as commendable, and considering the current President has several female activists as his advisers, and the parliament is filled with educated men and women, that came from equal opportunity countries I don't see why new legislations raising the profile of women and minorities wouldn't be passed in parliament. Just because Russia and America has devolved power structures doesn't mean they're comparable to Somalia; their history and society is utterly different. That's way the comparison is a bit stretched. Your not getting it, the concept of devolution doesn't necessarily equal 'weak governance' in any country. I disagree. Where does your 'Greater Somalia is interferring' claim come from? The Raskambooni militia is filled with recruits from outside Somalia proper, what do you call that? We're going in circles. Round and round yay! There could be a trillion barrels of oil under Somalia but until we see it flowing it's just speculation. What's wrong with reserving judgement until the evidence is flowing, so to speak? Be that is may, it still influences the policies of foreign countries towards Somalia, including America. You think the London Conference and BP being interested in Somali oil is a coincidence? LOL I see no exclusion but if you have evidence please show and I'll change my mind. Exhibit A The military threat is always much more dangerous to a nation than a political one. We should re-focus on Ethiopia; the Rome to our Carthage. No military caused the collapse of the Somali State or Somali Armed Forces, it was politics. Ethiopia has come under the guise of fighting terrorism, the faster we have politically intergrated all the regions of Somalia into the new Federal administration the faster the new armed forces will be able to recruit and maintain a diverse army capable of defending the borders and give Ethiopian leaders sleepless nights. Political intergration has to be inclusive first. No, might isn't right (though realistically speaking, it is) and anybody who can proof they're being cheated should be heard. Where this meeting happens though is irrelevant. After all, wasn't the TFG set up in foreign lands. TFG is old news, the FGS was elected inside Somalia, this is a new era, and the time of doing stuff in other people's countries is obsolete. Because of the double standards I mentioned in earlier posts.The FG should deal with the Jubba initiative in the same way they deal with other regions. All I'm saying is lets be fair and treat all equally. None of the other regions have entire communities complaining about exclusion. The more I read about this issue the more I agree with the FG's stance on the situation. We finally have a competent team at the top positions of Somalia's government.

I meant Obama but it's good you mentioned the second failure too. Both were trusted by idealistic simpletons and both utterly failed but then again the majority of the planet is made up of people who can be feed simple slogans and unrealistic promises so I don't blame both leaders. It's like fishing with a grenade. lol. LMAO Obama has literally saved America from the worst recession in recent history and the mess Bush jr left behind. He achieved more in the last three years than Bush did in two terms: 1. Passed Health Care Reform: After five presidents over a century failed to create universal health insurance, signed the Affordable Care Act (2010). It will cover 32 million uninsured Americans beginning in 2014 and mandates a suite of experimental measures to cut health care cost growth, the number one cause of America’s long-term fiscal problems. 2. Passed the Stimulus: Signed $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act in 2009 to spur economic growth amid greatest recession since the Great Depression. Weeks after stimulus went into effect, unemployment claims began to subside. Twelve months later, the private sector began producing more jobs than it was losing, and it has continued to do so for twenty-three straight months, creating a total of nearly 3.7 million new private-sector jobs. 3. Passed Wall Street Reform: Signed the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2010) to re-regulate the financial sector after its practices caused the Great Recession. The new law tightens capital requirements on large banks and other financial institutions, requires derivatives to be sold on clearinghouses and exchanges, mandates that large banks provide “living wills” to avoid chaotic bankruptcies, limits their ability to trade with customers’ money for their own profit, and creates the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (now headed by Richard Cordray) to crack down on abusive lending products and companies. 4. Ended the War in Iraq: Ordered all U.S. military forces out of the country. Last troops left on December 18, 2011. 5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan: From a peak of 101,000 troops in June 2011, U.S. forces are now down to 91,000, with 23,000 slated to leave by the end of summer 2012. According to Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, the combat mission there will be over by next year. 6. Eliminated Osama bin laden: In 2011, ordered special forces raid of secret compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, in which the terrorist leader was killed and a trove of al-Qaeda documents was discovered. 7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry: In 2009, injected $62 billion in federal money (on top of $13.4 billion in loans from the Bush administration) into ailing GM and Chrysler in return for equity stakes and agreements for massive restructuring. Since bottoming out in 2009, the auto industry has added more than 100,000 jobs. In 2011, the Big Three automakers all gained market share for the first time in two decades. The government expects to lose $16 billion of its investment, less if the price of the GM stock it still owns increases. 8. Expanded Stem Cell Research: In 2009, eliminated the Bush-era restrictions on embryonic stem cell research, which shows promise in treating spinal injuries, among many other areas. 9. Created Conditions to Begin Closing Dirtiest Power Plants: New EPA restrictions on mercury and toxic pollution, issued in December 2011, likely to lead to the closing of between sixty-eight and 231 of the nation’s oldest and dirtiest coal-fired power plants. Estimated cost to utilities: at least $11 billion by 2016. Estimated health benefits: $59 billion to $140 billion. Will also significantly reduce carbon emissions and, with other regulations, comprises what’s been called Obama’s “stealth climate policy.” 10. Achieved New START Treaty: Signed with Russia (2010) and won ratification in Congress (2011) of treaty that limits each country to 1,550 strategic warheads (down from 2,200) and 700 launchers (down from more than 1,400), and reestablished and strengthened a monitoring and transparency program that had lapsed in 2009, through which each country can monitor the other. 11. Invested Heavily in Renewable Technology: As part of the 2009 stimulus, invested $90 billion, more than any previous administration, in research on smart grids, energy efficiency, electric cars, renewable electricity generation, cleaner coal, and biofuels. -- Source

Apophis;878191 wrote: I guess our definitions and standards are different. I don't call the process which lead to the current government democratic, to me it is clan-tocracy and it's nothing to be proud of. And Africa's parliaments are full of graduates and PHD holders of all kinds and the continent is, still, the way it is. I will judge them on their delivery not the papers they hold. You want Somalia to fly before it can walk, your standards are far to high, and yet you call yourself a 'realist'? Laughable, the major seismic shift in Somalia is a positive one, and I am in my right to conclude that we are on the right track to a strong Somali republic, one that is accountable and responsible. It wasn't an easy feat (or even what the "clan elders" wanted) but I support and I'm happy that we have as many women as we have in parliament. This is an example of a real progress. I'm glad you conceed this point. We regressed in the last twenty years and are finally heading the right direction. Remember Somali women voted before Swiss women did, and we were the first muslim country to enact laws that deemed men and women equal in the republic on all matters. This one of the historic patterns I mentioned earlier that shows when there are responsible people at the helm we can make alot of progress. You keep confusing potential for re-re-emergence with an actual re-emergence. I've said it before and I'll repeat, we have potential but whether that will bear out is entirely another matter. A stable Somalia is a regional power by default, this has nothing to do with 'potential', unless you think we are a perpetual warlike people who 'potentially could be peaceful'? Compare like with like, America and Russia cannot be compared to Somalia. Nothing in Africa can be compared to America and Russia, only a handful in the world can in terms of power-projection and economics. However my analogy was about governmental 'devolution' and how this doesn't necessarily mean a country is 'weak' as a result, hence the comparison is justified. The potential to do something doesn't always = actually doing it. The previous two cabinets were technocrats and they most definitely delivered upon their promises. It will take another year for us to be able to assess the new technocrats, but seeing as educated Somali men and women have made a significant mark already in reviving the country, I see no reason why this trend won't continue, unless the country is struck by a major disaster that kills off all educated technocrats. Not likely. Only if the rest of Somaliweyne decides to unjustly interfere. This is about locals feeling left out, it has nothing to do with Somaliweyne. Not that simple. It is. My point still stands; the west lost interest in Somalia after the Cold War ended because the country wasn't, strategically, as valuable as before. It doesn't stand, because Somali-American military programs were still ongoing after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Somali pilots were being trained to fly F-16s, you don't make that kind of major technological commitment with an African country (Somalia being one of two, the other being Egypt) unless its long-term. Somalia can never lose its strategic value, 50% of the world sea-trade passes Somalia's coast every year. The fact remains none of our leaders rose to the challenge and filled the vacuum, and we suffered horrendously as a result, our fault alone. Nothing to do with America. Oil companies speculate all the time; it's nothing new. What's a billion dollars to an oil company (even in the 80s)? Pocket change. This is becoming tedious, sure you're in your right to contradict numerous geological studies spanning a century, but American strategists won't and haven't! Maybe instead of complaining they should get involved or are they afraid their "complaints" will turn out to be BS? They have been excluded, and its amusing to see your 'tone' towards these communities, its clear that you have an issue with them because they will derail a shady political process. I disagree; on the one hand you have a ruthless enemy who violates the country at will and who invaded and killed thousands not to long ago, while on the other you have a country which has kept, with UN aid, hundreds of thousands of Somali refugees. There's a big difference. I'll trust a docile Kenyans over blood thirsty Ethios any day. The case of Ethiopia requires a strong Somali military which is currently being built, the case of Kenya is political, and this is a platform in Somalia that recently saw a seismic shift from a warlord infested entity to one filled with technocrats and fresh faces. We own the political platform now and therefore the Federal government is absolutely in its right to thwart an attack on our sovereignty 'politically' and deal with the Ethiopian factor with a rebuild Somali Armed Forces 'militarily'. The onus is on them, the complainers, to proof their claim, not the other way round. As I said, I can claim any piece of land I want on the planet but I have to proof ownership before people take me seriously. This is everyday common sense. Why because one group has a gun and the other doesn't? Might is right, how silly, we still haven't learned a thing from the civl-war. These 'complainers' might be a sore to you, but nobody can deny their right, and they will prove their claim at an all-inclusive conference inside the country, not some foreign capital. The FG has done nothing but interfere and complain. Everyone complains and interferes in your eyes. The region is under the Federal government's jurisdiction, it has a right to 'interfere' if its sidestepped and make sure the process is fair and inclusive.

Good first trip, he'll be rubbing shoulders with 14 other presidents. We missed our own jubilee, but I hope we can make the 55th celebrations in 2015 a major event, and Insha'allah I will be part of it.

Apophis;878095 wrote: All these are welcome steps in the right direction but it doesn't suggest a trend or a the rise of a strong state. I, like you, live in hope that our troubles are behind us but my expectation is more pragmatic. How convenient of you to dismiss real democratic progress on the ground that is missing in 90% of the countries in Africa. Somalia has set and achieved more landmarks in this year alone than any other country in the region has in the last decade. The parliament is the most educated with 60% constituting of graduates from top universities in the diaspora. We had a fair election where the incumbent acknowledged defeat, instead of dragging it on and turning it into a fiasco that would result in one of those 'coalition-government' charades that is plaguing the continent, we had fresh faces for the country's top 3 positions. The percentage of women in parliament in Somalia - that will continue to grow - is higher than in Kenya, and I'm comparing it to the latter because that's the only country with a parliament that actually has some sort of credibility or power. Its easy to dismiss the major landmarks I mentioned earlier when you compare it with a western country, but when you look at the region Somalia is in, with dictators and stubborn incumbents galore, then it puts things into persepective. We successfully ended the transition and are in the transformation stage. It is clear that Somalia is coming back fast, and more robust than the prewar state. We are wealthier, we have more companies, we have more educated politicians, we have more urban hubs, we have more trade-links, we have regional states, we have a very involved diaspora. All ingredients for a serious comeback! Your examples have little resemblances with what we're discussing. Find more relevant examples. Devolution of power doesn't equal 'weakness', hence my examples were spot on! Again, only potential nothing actual. Potential and actual what? Its a fact that Somalia now has a very educated parliament. They'll probably not be seeing it the way your're seeing it. What you see as a violation maybe seen as "encouraging the right attitude". The puppet master can pull whichever string he wishes. Indeed, and he will string Kenya to sync its policy with that of Somalia, because that little plan being hatched in the South has all the hallmarks of a prolonged conflict. Exactly what I said. Not really Concentrate on what I said; I was speaking of diplomatic clout not library membership. Those library cards is all Somalia needs to defend its sovereignty in International Law. If it was as strategic as you say, the US wouldn't have pulled out after losing 18 soldiers even with a bad press. The monitoring station were vital during the cold war but when it finished the game changed and we were thrown away like a used handkerchief. International relations at its most cut-throat. It wasn't the Americans responsibility to keep Somalia together, it was ours! Yet long after the collapse of the Soviet Union the Americans send in a massive rescue mission to salvage what was still a barely functioning state. Secondly there was no-one on the political scene wise enough to grab the opportunity to quickly fill the vacuum with American help, the way Meles Zenawi did in Ethiopia. Also, don't downplay the major disaster that was the Black Hawk Down fiasco and the psychological impact it had in America. It was the first time American soldiers were in close combat since the Vietnam War and to make it worse, the images of American soldiers being dragged on national tv made sure no American president in his right mind could justify a continued presence. When they actually find some, I'll concede the point. Sure, and we can safely say then that the American companies that invested the equivalance of a billion dollars in today's exchange rate during the 1980s was just them throwing away their money on a phantom guess! I don't think you yourself wish anybody harm and your post history suggests benevolence but you seem to be ignorant of the influence of clan politics on national politics. Just because you don't see me engage in this neolithic clan-talk and backwards supremacy, do not for a moment think I don't have my 'eye on the situation'. There are already clans complaining about the Nairobi initiative, calling it ''illegal' and to ignore them is to invite more bloodshed. Yes, sweep the Ethiopians (our oldest and most ruthless enemy) under the carpet and lets focus on Kenya which, compared to Ethiopia, has been a saint to the Somali people. Also, do you not think the Ethios are setting a buffer zone of their own? What of the un-demarcated border? What of the Somali lands they hold hostage? Get real. I disagree; Hiiraan faces an enemy who violates and has been violating our borders at will for the last twenty years. It's a gaping national security hole which should concern the government more than the Jubbas. Kenya is not our enemy (in the same way as Ethiopia) and I do not envision a threat to national security emanating from their side (barring the minor, in my opinion, sea dispute which should be settled in Somalia's favour). Don't get it twisted, Ethiopians and Kenyans are same sh.t to me, two countries that have gained from the colonialist presence during the 20th century, two countries that have gained from the collapse of the Somali state and armed forces, and don't bring that 'dadaab' card, they are funded by the UN. Ethiopia can be handled by a strong Somali army, that has always been their achilles heel, however Kenya is doing something that could be irreversible through diplomatic means, such as shady MOU's and buffer-zones. It makes them a bigger priority. I've never been to Hargeisa but me saying " I own it" means nothing especially when I and all know who really owns Hargeisa. In the same sense just because the whole of Somaliweyne decided they want a piece of the Jubbas doesn't mean they own it. Now, there won't be any "hot contest" as the locals will share power amongst themselves. This is a good thing. So now you dispute the legitimate grievances of certain sections of 'the locals' because you believe they are just 'claiming' land instead of actually being from there. What evidence do you have to dispute their claim? The locals will consult the government after finishing their own deliberations. It's the new government which jumped the gun and started to criticise the effort of the locals. The government has to earn the trust of the locals. Interesting there are currently locals discussing the issue of Kismayo with the Federal government and claiming they have been left out of the Nairobi initiative. The situation is clearly not as monolithic as you make it out to be. Lets focus on Somalia. Spot on analogies are a common feature in debates, we are focusing on Somalia The only element doing the sidestepping is the government. Patriotism clouds the mind; I have no interest in it. No, the Federal government is being inclusive. Your tone. I resent that. A realist. Remember '08 and "hope" and "change" nonsense? I called BS on that. What? Obama or Sharif? The first has made more progress than any Republican government in the last decade, and the latter did help usher in this positive period we are enjoying today in the form of the end of the transition and a legitimate government. Hope was justified and major change has been delivered.

I am 'euro-trash' then. Almost entered the thread with a thousand positive videos, studies and articles about the greatness of British Somalis, but........meh...

Watched Cosmopolis, about a billionaire playboy facing an existential crisis. The cinematography is slick, and what a surprise to see K'naan in the film as well, I wasn't aware he would feature. His funeral on the streets of NYC made him look like an Emperor lol

DoctorKenney;877767 wrote: Don't you think this is a little unrealistic? Nation building takes decades my friend. Somalia is in serious need of it. To paraphrase Mary Harper; Somalia was a failed 'state', not a failed 'country'. What your referring to is 'state-building', not 'nation-building', because we already have a single language, a single ethnic identity, and a single religion. Nothing about my 'expectation' is unrealistic, the infrastructure is in place and needs to upgraded. There is a vibrant private sector ready to invest. The schools only need to be 'reopened' and the attendancy rates will rocket. Cleaner hospitals and better care will see death-rates fall. A good taxation system will generate billions for the national budget. The distribution lines of the agricultural sector to the ports only need to be re-established and there will be a boom. Plenty of Somali shipping companies based in East Africa and Dubai that could lease or buy that many ships to give us a substantial merchant marine. FDI can be attracted by aggressive teams of Somali lobbyists speaking Mandarin and Arabic. The only thing that is needed to kick-start all of this is stability

Hideous uniforms, the old Somali female military and police uniforms that you can see in these stamps were more professional and efficient.

I expect from the new administration: - Countrywide stability by 2014 - Infant and maternal mortality rates plummeting through a better healthcare system. - Literacy rate to be raised to at least 60% by the end of the term - 2000 km of new paved roads by 2016 - Reconstruction of the capital, and spread out development to other urban hubs. - The 3 Panamax ports to be expanded, and the port of Bosaso to be turned into the country's 4th deepwater port. - $5 billion in FDI, this means stronger ties with China, and drawing in the Gulf Corporation Countries. . - Debt-cancellation - Arms embargo lifted and the Somali Armed Forces equipped with professional hardware. - Multiple reconciliation conferences inside the country to permanently sort out differences. - Agriculture booming, aquaculture booming. - Taxation system in place by the end of 2013 - Infant tourism industry flourishing by 2015 - Merchant marine of at-least 50 ships by 2016 - Statistics Bureau - collecting everything from economics to demographics. Statistics = knowledge = power. If they manage to achieve the above, then they deserve another term, and that's when the exciting stuff really begins.

Anarchists unite, its time to bring down villa Somalia and destroy everything in sight because adeer didn't get the seat. We must drag the country back to oblivion, grab the children, grab the women, grab the elders and throw them all into the sea. Adeer didn't get the seat. who cares about roads, hospitals and investment, only the seat was important and we didn't get it, how dare you mr President, how dare you! Lolz

Anarchists unite, its time to bring down villa Somalia and destroy everything in sight because adeer didn't get the seat. We must drag the country back to oblivion, grab the children, grab the women, grab the elders and throw them all into the sea. Adeer didn't get the seat. who cares about roads, hospitals and investment, only the seat was important and we didn't get it, how dare you mr President, how dare you!

Is inside this box, just flown in from Qurbaha

Apophis;877139 wrote: Nothing realistic about anything you've said here; I don't know what evidence you have which isn't open to everyone else but I would like to see what supports your assertion of " the current trend is a fast resurgent Somalia, one that is more robust than the prewar state . - A new constitution - A new Parliament filled with educated men and women. - A new responsible Speaker. - A new President, with a good track-record. - A new Prime-minister. All in a single year, that's a bloody good trend for any African country my friend and all these institutions are more inclusive than the prewar government set up, hence its more robust. A realistic observer would clearly see the federal republic will be much weaker and fragmented than the Socialist government. I bet you would call the governments of Russia and the United States weak because of their governmental structure? Its clear that you misunderstood my point, a robust new Somalia is not how much power the President can wield, but how much power is vested in the hands of the citizens. I have seen no evidence of this but I would be happy to review my position if you provide some. See parliament, Phds galore. You had to insert "in their own eyes" bit otherwise you know your statement is utter nonsense don't you? Why would the west violate the sovereignty of a country that has ''in their eyes' a legitimately elected government, one which they support, and one that isn't hostile to them? Logical fallacy on your part! But still the statement is weak. If it's in the national interest of western governments to support Somalia over Kenya natural they will, but the opposite is also true. In my opinion the balance currently favours Kenya more than us. It's not a nice thing to hear but it's the truth. As the country settles and gets better this balance will likely shift but for now it is what it is. In a country versus country scenario, even the thousand times smaller, Seychelles has a more favourable balance compared to Somalia in its current predicament. It would be hilarious however to suggest as the country comes back with a roar, that this will be the case forever. We have historic patterns on our side, which clearly show the opposite. Yeah sure, the Turks will save the day (it's not like they're busy with other stuff near home). You seem to think Somalia has diplomatic clout similar to the pre-war levels and you call yourself a realist? International relations is much more complicated than you think. Excuse me but was Somalia kicked out of all the organisations it helped found and joined, and I somehow didn't get the memo? Somalis are a force to be reckoned with when their minds are synchronised, and capacity building is currently in motion. Cold war politics and posturing; doesn't apply any-more. This century will be characterised by the Sino-US rivalry, both of which have vested interests in Somalia, that the Federal government can use to its own advantage. If it did Somalia would not have been left to rot as soon as the Cold War came to a stop.A bit of humility wouldn't hurt. Nonsense, the US still scrambled the largest UN mission in the early 1990s to rescue Somalia from the clutches of warlords. We F'd up by not using that opportunity.There is only so much a superpower can do without suffering a backlash at home. I see no current "major interests" coming from the Americans and we'll have to wait and see about your second assertion. You don't see it, or 'don't want to see it?' The Americans have been in this political game from the start, and for a good reason that is black and liquidy. "Must be managed" in "fairness" the same words, no doubt, told to the people of the Niger Delta before being pasted into the oil highways direct to Lagos. Are you insinuating I wish the people of Kismayo to be exploited? If not, are you insinuating that this is the Federal government's plan for the region? What evidence do you have from my posting history or the policies of the government to support that? Sxb there's no difference only idiotic excuses. To me what's offensive is the whole idea of one region being dictated to while others are left to themselves. It is utterly unacceptable. Why the double standards?. Why do you oppose the locals choosing their own destiny? I really do not understand your objections. I don't see any double-standards. - One the hand you have a region supported by a neighbouring country(Kenya) which was exposed by Wiki-leaks as having the intention to set up a 'buffer-state' and you have another region (Hiiraan) which is also supported by a neighbour(Ethiopia) but whose support is strictly military and not political. - On the one hand you have one region that for more than two decades was hotly contested between rival clans, and you have another region that was dragged into instability only in last 6 years, and one that is ideological in nature at that. The former case is far more complex and much more of a potential powderkeg for the future. - One the one hand you have a region that will be involved in a major sea-dispute with a neighbour, and on the other you have a region where there is no such dispute. - On the one hand you have a region that hosts the biggest southernmost urban hub and Port-city of the republic, and the former HQ of the Somali Navy and on the other hand you have a region that is not as strategically important as the former. As I said before there is absolutely nothing the locals lose from consulting with the Federal government, whose 'blessing' they need to legitimize any administration erected there. We can only wish Somalia is in the same state as post war Europe for our problems wouldn't be half as bad as they're now. LMAO, you clearly have no idea of the sheer destruction that post-war Europe had to deal with, on multiple levels, from demographics, to infrastructure, to politics. It took the Marshal-plan to raise them from the brink. At least we have multiple stable regions, major countries backing us today, and most of our most important infrastructure such as the road-network, panamax port, airports and cities need only a face-lift, rather than a total reconstruction -- which is only necessary in Mogadishu. The Jubba initiative doesn't violate Somalia's sovereignty. If the Federal government is sidestepped in favour of a foreign state, then that must be patriotism in your opinion! What makes you think the people of the region love the country any less than you do? What makes you think I think that? You seem to be infatuated with the current troop of leaders Which African or Earthling wouldn't be infatuated with a bright crop of educated men and women leading their country? which can make you appear less objective. I fear you're invested too much to see clearly. Ah, spare me the emotional attachment nonsense, I have been one of the most consistent individuals on this forum and outside of it. I stated the only logical thing to say- we don't know. You on the other hand are making wild predictions left right and centre. No that was an illogical thinking process on your part, just because China has the largest army in the world doesn't mean it will seek to control the world. You ask how do you know that? Well, I look at its ancient. medieval and recent history to conclude that China has never imposed its jurisdiction across the whole planet, despite having had the military and economic power to do so at the multiple times in history. That's a pattern, which allows me to superimpose it upon the future. There is nothing to suggest in President Hassan's history and term so far that would allow you to characterise him as a potential 'warmonger' or 'dictator', otherwise he wouldn't be inviting Somalia's traditional elders from all clans, and former politicians for a luncheon!

Apophis;877118 wrote: Ok, you're an idealist and not a dreamer. Since when is agreeing with a legitimate government stance towards a region internationally recognised as part of its jurisdiction as 'idealist'. I'm a 'realist', I observe patterns on the ground, and the current trend is a fast resurgent Somalia, one that is more robust than the prewar state. Let them return then we can talk about it. Until then lets stick with what's happening on the ground Not really, the government already has a good team, and they are sufficient for now, if our sovereignty is not respected. My point was, international law and sovereignty are not set in stone. They can and have been sidestepped in favour of special interests. They are not as concrete as you think. Somalia is gaining friends but diplomatically speaking, it is nowhere near Kenya. Please understand that. In this case, Kenya stands alone, nobody in their right mind in the international community will support one country over another with regards to the latter's domestic affairs, especially a government that is legitimate in their own eyes. This is not the situation of the NFD where the principle of upholding 'colonial borders' is unanimously agreed upon, this is a case where the Federal government does not want to be sidestepped in favour of a foreign state who recently was rehatted under a specific mandate of providing 'security' and not engage in 'state building'. Western governments want the present Somali government to succeed but to think they'll sanction Kenya is....for the lack of a more diplomatic word, idealist. If it disrupts the political process, then they will be deemed a 'spoiler' by the federal government. The latter only needs the weight of Turkey to give the complaint teeth, and Nairobi will sync its policy with that of Mogadishu. However Nairobi has advisers, and they aren't dumb. Good relations with the Federal government overrides any militia, or clan relationship. The stakes held by western governments in Somalia are far outweighed by those in Kenya. This is plain and clear. Outside of the Britain-Kenya relationship, Somalia was always the darling of the superpowers. Which country signed the first Soviet friendship treaty in Africa? ---> Somalia. Which country hosted the largest US embassy in the world? ----> Somalia. Which country became the first non-Arab country to join the Arab League? -----> Somalia. Which country enjoyed the biggest Chinese investment projects in Africa post-independence? -----> Somalia. We are more strategically located, have many important diaspora communities growing in political/lobbying influence, and the country is loaded with resources. If you think Western or Eastern governments that want a piece of the pie will side with Kenya over a 'buffer zone' then your highly misinformed. The Iran situation is clearly understandable (it's super powers posturing) and the other example is of minor significance. US has major interests in Somalia, its no coincidence that the new government is giving 'priority' to the old American companies at the licencing fair for oil-concessions next year. The US will put its political weight behind Somalia in a scenario where the latter's sovereignty is undermined in this post-transition era. To me the city is irrelevant, let it burn to the ground for all I care (it may actually be a blessing), I'm concerned with the region not just a dusty city. Its an ancient city, with the only panamax port in the Indian Ocean south of Mogadishu until Tanzania. Kismayo has huge potential and must be managed carefully and with fairness. The president gave the blessings for Hiiraan region to sort their own affairs, all I'm saying is let him extend the same courtesy to the war weary people in the Jubba. He knows not better than them. Apples and oranges, and I have explained the difference between the two situations several times. The stake-holders would lose nothing from the Federal government's proposal, absolutely nothing. The people electing their own governor would still be the locals. I'm aware of the "ulterior motives" ascribed to Kenya. But it doesn't seem very ulterior as they have stated clearly their intention to open negotiations with the national government. What you and every Somali has to understand is the hubris and madax adag of the 70s is long gone. We're on our knees and we should be looking for allies not making enemies everywhere. I'm sorry, that's a non-sequitur; just because the Netherlands and France in the 1940s were on their knees, doesn't mean matters of sovereignty went suddenly out of the window when the allies landed on the beaches of Normandy. The matters of state were still firmly in the hands of their governments, regardless of the size of their destroyed militaries and eroded infrastructure. This won't always be the reality for Somalia, for it isn't the reality for either France or Netherlands today. I can use any word I like to describe the president, some will be positive, others will be negative (and likely expletive laden), so what? And yes, there's a lot of hate expressed in this forum for the KDF and praises for Uganda and the others. I'm just bringing balance. Besides, the KDF has a sizeable Somali elements and thus deserve our thanks for helping free their brothers. I see friends everywhere, you see enemies everywhere. I was just highlighting the hypocrisy, however you're in your right to use the most profane terms in reference to the President, Pm, Speaker and the republic in general, but i'll be damned that I will accept your suggestion 'of being more objective' a moment latter Not only do you predict the future but you can also read minds huh? What he will or won't do we don't know. The onus is on you to provide evidence that he's a warmongering President, all I see is calls for dialogue, consultation and inclusive meetings on his part. That's a pattern, which allows a person to superimpose that on the future, and it gives you a view of what will most likely be his modus operandi for the rest of his term. What exactly do you have to counter this?

Miyir;877103 wrote: For some reason the west wants the piracy to continua? why? no idea! Countries need theaters of action to create stronger political relationships. If the PMPF were to be funded for another two years, piracy would be completely cleaned from the coast of Somalia, and Western and Eastern governments would lose a MAJOR 'reason' to initiate join-operations and closer ties. BEIJING: Chinese and US navy vessels conducted a joint military exercise on Monday as part of an anti-piracy drill in the Gulf of Aden, state media reported. The five-hour drill involved a Chinese missile frigate and a US guided missile destroyer, the ministry said, according to China's Xinhua news agency. Beijing lauded the drill as being "conducive to increasing mutual understanding and trust between the two navies and deepening bilateral cooperation in non-conventional security fields, " Xinhua said. -- Source Still wondering?

Apophis;877105 wrote: Here comes the paranoia and insults. To call someone a 'dreamer' when his argument is firmly rooted in reality is an insult my friend, albeit an underhanded one. Yes, yes, we'll all "see soon" (sounds almost like a threat lol). If the current reconstruction of Somalia's legal capacity in the form of returning lawyers is a 'threat', then I guess it is. Really? International Law? Sovereignty? Those are your arguments? Because they worked so well for Libya, Iraq, Congo, Panama.......right? Maybe take your head out of the books and look around at reality. Just a tip. What a red herring, the current internationally recognised government of Somalia is not a rogue state, and the President was elected legitimately through a indigeneous democratic process. The weight of the international law will fall on the federal government side, when it highlights how its own sovereignty is being undermined by another state. And LOL@ Kenya government being sanctioned. There are many cards for the Federal government to invoke if Nairobi's policy were to contradict that of Mogadishu. There are still several investigations ongoing with regards to potential 'war-crimes' on the part of Kenyan forces, not to mention a sea-dispute, which would give Kenya in the eyes of the international community 'motive' to derail progress in Somalia. Do not for a moment think that Kenya is squiky clean, or that Western governments with immense stakes in a stable Somalia will allow this new government to be discredited just because of clan-supremacy and discontent in a particular region. A man can dream. The same Kenya sanctioned by Congress for its military conduct inside its own borders? The same Kenya threatened with sanctions if it were to import oil from Iran? If someone is dreaming, then its clearly you. Because contrary to your pessimistic view of those complaining, they actually like the president and did in fact vote for him hoping the hostility of the Sharif era would be a thing of the past. My hope is that he will still come through for the people of the region but he has reduced his credibility slightly due to his gaffes. He can be forgiven but he must come with the right attitude. The president hasn't said a single disrespectful comment towards that city and surrounding regions. His stance is logical considering the recent history there. If Kismayo was the capital of the country, the same careful stance would be projected towards another hotly contested city like Mogadishu. Nothing unfair about this. You seem to hate Kenya which is odd because they just liberated a huge chunk of the motherland. Typical red-herring, to state that Kenya has a potential powderkeg election is not 'hating' considering the last one was pretty bloody. Secondly Kenya has ulterior motives that are well known, and which you seem to sweep under rug out of an innate sense of loyalty. Be more objective. Says the guy who called members respectfully 'criticising' the operation and aftermath in Kismayo as 'KDF bashing' on a different topic, while in this one uses expletive terms in reference to the President of Somalia. Objective indeed. The president already wants to sidestep the locals so with a huge army behind him it's not unrealistic to imagine he may do more than sidestep. All I'm saying is lets trust the locals and leave them to decide their future. It's a local issue not one of sovereignty. He wouldn't do that, otherwise you could argue he would invade Somaliland with that huge army as well, but that's an illogical argument, considering he is well aware of the ills that brought down the last legitimate government, and he has no interest in repeating those mistakes. He and the coming PM, as well the government in general have jurisdiction over that region and city internationally recognised as part of the Federal Republic of Somalia. Somalia belongs to me as much as it does to you so just grow up. Well, your from Garissa, if we were to use the backwards logic maintained by several members on this forum, you have 'no right' to involve yourself in the political game of Somalia. Thankfully, I do not share that sentiment, and will retract the previous statement.

Apophis;877097 wrote: Dreams are great but one must still wake up and face reality. Your a Kenyan proxy my friend, your entire stand is based on Kenyan interests, not Somali. I therefore take your underhanded insult as a compliment. The president has shown himself to be undiplomatic and naive. He's right on the money, and Nairobi will make their policy in sync with that of the government. This a long-term matter and you will see soon. He should have sent a delegation to the forces which captured Kismayo, offered any help he can offer and consulted with those meeting in Nairobi. Instead, he and his Generals have been obtuse and rude to the forces who gave blood and coin to kick Shabab's teeth's in and dismissive of the Nairobi gatherings. And worse, he does this knowing full well he has no iota of power to forestall the Jubba initiative . You clearly haven't got the slighest clue about international law and sovereignty do you? In the era of the transitional government the question of Somali sovereignty might have been in doubt, but that's over today. A single complaint to the UN Security Council by the Federal government would roadblock any initiative made in the Kenyan Capital, and the Kenyan government could risk being sanctioned if its policies are going against a legitimate government in Somalia. If the FGS has no power, why all this fuss about the president's comments? The stakeholders in Kismayo and the Kenyan government are well aware of the seismic shift that occured on the political landscape of Somalia, 10 september 2012, its only you and a few others pretending we are still in the TFG era. No, that's not how it works. First at least pay the wages of the Somali forces in the Jubbas then the central government maybe, just maybe, taken seriously. All of the wages of the forces in the South are paid by Western entities, even your Kenyan superheroes. Secondly if your entire argument is based on how weak the current Federal Government - that inherited not a single penny- is, then you're in for a rude awakening when the funds for the Reconstruction of the Somali Armed Forces flood in, and all of the 'foreign forces' become obsolete. Would that give the President and the FGS the right to sidestep the locals, just because they now have the military might to do so? HELL NO!! The same way today in the era of a legitimate post-transition government, nobody can sidestep the Somali government in establishing a new regional state while allowing a foreign state total access and consultation rights. Stick to Garissa, if you don't respect Somali sovereignty.