Abtigiis;887473 wrote: Chimera, what would constutute "a clear evidence"? And why do you make assertions based on assumptions, when we are offering opinions based on information? News articles? Press-releases? Photographic corroboration? We heard lots of tales about that sick bast@rd Mr. White Eyes being part of the delegation, and not a single picture to support this claim despite half of the country's media being in that same city on the same day.

Abtigiis;887467 wrote: Chimera!!!!!! Which Prime Minister?! The one in the side pocket of Hassan?! The condom?! LOL, and here I thought Duke had vindicated the PM based on his new cabinet with almost no 'dumb-jadiids'.

xiinfaniin;887452 wrote: Chimera, you are not a tribal person. We know you long enough in these boards to know that. I have not given up on this president yet. But it is my opinion that he is not only wrong on Kismayo , but he is also bordering becoming a tribal leader based on his attitude toward the pending new admin, which has been in the works well before president Hassan come to office. It is also astonishing Abwaan, walaalkiis , Eng. Cadde, whom I assume are more supportive of the president than most, do not see president's folly on display with respect to Kismayo. To be honest Xiin, I think this situation goes beyond mere 'Kismayo politics', there is something much bigger at stake here behind the scenes. Until there is clear-cut evidence of his 'clannist pedigree' then I will stay the course and support the new government. Its the only one we have, there is no alternative. The international community knows this and the president knows this. He would not risk his reputation if something big wasn't at stake.

Abtigiis;887446 wrote: Chimera, I never doubt your integrity and sincerity. You are one of the most sensible people in this forum and I think you are right in not taking our words and in giving the President the benefit of the doubt. I just feel you are too dignified to imagine a president of a nation, a big man, could think so low. I think this 'can't be' disbelief blinds you to real possibilities. With the information we hear from Villa Somalia - thanks to our position which allows us to get these information, I fear we will soon go back to the 1990s civil war. As you know, I don't care about who owns Kismayo, I don't care who rules it. I am criticizing President Hassan because the way he is handling Kismayo is not helping national reconcilliation. What is the need to plan to change all commanders in Kismayo and to send 800 soldiers fom mogadishu, as he plans to do? That is what he is telling donors! Is that not igniting war when he knows the armed groups in Kismayo will not accept it?! What is the urgency? Why can't he wait and see the admin the people of the region establish and then gradually engage them the same way he is expected to engage other regions? Isn't the ungoverned central regions an issue that needs his attention? I'm absolutely aware of what Somalis are capable of in high places both positively and negatively, my respect for the offices doesn't equal worshipping the men. However I have yet to see anything that could be construed as clannist. With a cobweb of clans, competing agendas and diva-like chieftains, it would be impossible for him not to step on 'someone's' toes. The objective is for a revived strong Somalia, this can't happen with a character that neither respects the sovereignty of Somalia nor the highest offices. Jubbaland would become another Somaliland, and while there was no legitimate government in the 90s to influence the latter, there is one today that will have a foot in the door to steer the new administration in Kismayo on the right path, the pro-Somalia direction. It means the next government won't have to engage another region with 'talks'. While we focus solely on the president, why is everyone ignoring the fact that the Prime-Minister, the speaker and Parliament all firmly stand behind the president? Are they all HAG members, are they puppets of the president? Neither explanation would make sense. I see alot of unsubstantiated claims, but nothing to back them up.

Apophis;887441 wrote: Note to self: when in a corner, calacaal to Abtigiis to approve you as a non tribalist but day dreaming is permanent condition. Now that's amusing coming from the character who in every debate he engaged with me got his arguments obliterated only to then run away with his tail between his legs with promises of a better argument tomorrow LOL. People would actually respect you now had you stand your ground in the past, now your just a simple one-liner, no need to waste my time on a Kenyan agent, at least Xiin and Abtiigiis are my fellow countrymen.

Xiin and Abtigiis, if what you guys are claiming were to be the truth, I would distance myself from this president in a nano-second. My continued support for him is not based on clan as some Kenyan agent above me would like you to believe, you guys know me longer than this newbie, I might have my 'dreamer' episodes every once and while but in the end I'm consistent. The President is watched with intense scrutiny by both the international community and the Somali world. There is absolutely nothing visible about his policies that would warrant the HAG boogeyman claims we have been hearing so much about the last couple of weeks from tribalist warriors and Kenyan agents. Yes, Kismayo is a potential powderkeg, but its a Somali city, that in the end comes under the mandate of the Federal Government headed by the President and the Prime-Minister. All of the city's major economic and infrastructural assets were build by a Somali government not clan-administrations. The Federal government of today is the legal successor, and it will play a MAJOR part in the construction of a new state in that region. A single rebel leader cannot play emperor, because the president is backed by the PM, the speaker and the parliament. If you bet against the new government, you will lose, for this is a different kind of fish. It will trample on a lot of inner-regional toes and hurt the pride of many clan-chieftains, but that's exactly what is needed.

President Hassan is even savvier than I initially thought. He got the seccessionist admin in the North worried with the new foreign minister that essentially discredits the notion that seperation is the only answer a seccessionist will accept. (She is just as much an opportunist as those who sought to break away in the midst of state collapse) Now his media/political delegation to Kismayo caused the Kenyans under the AMISOM mandate centred in Mogadishu to shoot themselves and their hidden agenda in the foot when they denied entry and protection for a high level government delegation at the behest of a rebel leader. He will be deemed a spoiler in the coming weeks with the help of the international media, the Kenyans will get the memo from the powers that pay their salaries to tow the line of the federal government, and a more inclusive admin will be set up with the supervision of the government. Things are going faster than I could hope for. Uganda's spat with the Americans and Europeans is beginning to tip the scale in favour of lifting the arms embargo, and uncharacteristically the peacekeeping mandate has only been extended for another four months. This combined with the growth of diciplined Somali soldiers and the Turkish military deal means the federal government will soon have a monopoly in projecting power. One of the main issues that the opponents of the new Government have used to discredit it with, soon they will have nothing. Yes its sad that the president has lost the support of respectable individuals like Abtigiis and Xiin, but considering the camp they currently find themselves in filled with anti-Somalia tribal warriors and Kenyan agents foaming at the mouth, the president is landing his stick on the right issues. God bless the president and long live the republic!

- Ibtisam - 5 - Aaliyah Based on their personalities and interests, but dating wa haraam.

Nice!

LOL, so now Somalia is a Federal Republic whose sovereignty must be respected by members from the Northwest, but when it comes to other regions, its hands off Mr President! Gartey!

^Good movie, the name says it all. Throughout the movie I was thinking why didn't the Rainmaker kill the Older version in the future before sending him back to younger version in the past but then I saw the end. That would have been a paradox. I liked the part where the friend didn't close his loop, and how the Older version, now on the run, disappeared bit by bit.

Timur;885510 wrote: The figure you posted is in GEARY-KHAMIS dollars, which is a hypothetical unit of currency The Geary-Khamis dollar, more commonly known as the international dollar, is a hypothetical unit of currency that has the same purchasing power parity that the U.S. dollar had in the United States at a given point in time. It is widely used in economics. -- Source used to measure standard of living. And what the hell are we discussing in this topic if not 'standards of living'? Life in Somalia was cheaper than life in Burundi or Kenya, obviously, and that's why it ranks well for the Geary-Khamis ranking. However, in actual production, Somalia was worse off than Burundi and far worse off than Kenya. We produced nothing, but we also imported very little, which made things balance out. It STILL doesn't excuse the fact that Somalia produced less than Burundi per capita. Now I am 100% sure that the only reason your still in this discussion is to save face, unsuccessfully I might add. No need to move the goal posts, we are discussing per capita income and standards of living, these aren't necessarily determined by nationwide industrial production only, but I will entertain your silly attempt at a red-herring nonetheless. Clearly you have no idea about the size of the economies in question. Modern Burundi 20 years later still doesn't have the same export volume as 80s Somalia. Yet you want to sell us the hilarious lie that in 'actual production' it produced and exported more than Somalia when 90% of Burundi's exports constitutes coffee? Compare this to Somalia, where agriculture made up 60% and the rest consisted of textiles, frankincense & Myrrh, dairy products, bananas, fruits, fisheries, sorghum, tobacco, processed meat, sugar, and pharmaceuticals. Burundi's population is slightly smaller than that of Somalia, yet even today its exports are 5 times smaller than the supposed figures of war-torn Somalia, the latter's export volume in reality is actually 20 times higher. It's pathetic that you brush off the World Bank stats in favor of your own imagination. You are either a troll, or you refuse to believe anything other than your own myths. The fact that you went this far into the topic running on your own assumptions and beliefs tells me you are not serious at all. You come into my topic, and dare call me a troll? Now that's amusing. Just admit it, you came in thinking I had all these figures made up and thought you had me in a corner only to be trashed by world renowned economists who completely obliterated your argument for me. The per capita figures aren't my imagination. I couldn't care less if you agree with them, your protestations are irrelevant in the end, If you can bring facts relating to direct production per capita, do so. Otherwise, none of what you say has merit without a credible source, unless of course you want to make up conspiracies for why you don't trust them. Fact is; the table from a peer-reviewed economic study clearly shows the per capita income of Somalia was the highest in the region for the entire prewar period. This regional status would no doubt be a fact today had the war not regressed the country to such a state, but at the same this economic status will be attained by Somalia by the end of this decade for the following reasons: - Sizable population - Abundance of resources - High value crops - Massive livestock populations - Multiple Panamax Ports - Strategic Location - Skilled diaspora Now if that bothers you and your inferiority complex, TOUGH LUCK!

Watched Predator at a friend's 80s marathon yesterday, this film used to scare the hell out of me in the 90s, but I thoroughly enjoyed it now, some highlights. Man can this guy act!! lol deforestation

*Ibtisam;885134 wrote: Adam; This is not admiring- it is degrading (bunch of men posting pictures of young teenagers- regardless of what race/ Somali or Ajaanabiis. it is all the same. As for those big head Xalimos. People (mainly guys and old ladies) always valued them for their a*ss and chest, and the sad part is that they now also value themselves based on looks. The number of blond bimbos in our society is astonishing. All this pouting lips and sticking out a*ss and life has left them a long ago. I agree, the boys have taken it too far.

The figure I posted wasn't something I made it up, its from the 'Better Off Stateless' study by Peter Leeson, a simple google search should have redirected you there. There are other economic studies that corroborate my above figures, and actually place the GDP per capita higher than what I initially stated. Here is a comprehensive table from the Development Centre Studies The World Economy Historical Statistics by Angus Maddison The World Economy: Historical Statistics is a book by Angus Maddison. Published in 2004 by the OECD Development Centre, it studies the growth of populations and economies across the centuries: not just the World Economy as it is now, but how it was in the past. Among other things, it showed that Europe's GDP per capita was faster progressing than the leading Asian economies since 1000 AD, reaching again a higher level than elsewhere from the 15th century,[1] while Asian GDP per capita remained static until 1800, when it even began to shrink in absolute terms, as Maddison demonstrated in a subsequent book.[2] At the same time, Maddison showed them recovering lost ground from the 1950s, and documents the much faster rise of Japan and East Asia and the economic shrinkage of Russia in the 1990s. The book is a mass of statistical tables, mostly on a decade-by-decade basis, along with notes explaining the methods employed in arriving at particular figures. -- Source Burundi was never on Somalia's level, what an absurd claim, even today its per capita income is lower than the 'supposed figure' of war-torn Somalia, yet we are to believe these generalised World Bank figures? Drawn from nothing? Completely contradicting multiple sources including government publications? I rather not! At least Angus Maddisson draws his figures from a myriad of studies, economists, and specialises in the historical timeline of economic statistics, compared to an International Bank more concerned with extending high-interest loans, and the poorer the country, the more influence they have. Therefore they have a clear bias in promoting African countries as basket-cases with 'bad credit'. Somalia was certainly destined to go somewhere, you can tell from the high GDP per capita figures in the 1970s when factories and businesses were in full swing, when farms and livestock turned the country self-sufficient and when trade was bustling. The numerous conventional wars and internal instability clearly contributed to the decline. If Somali politicians could have ensured the military didn't eat all the government funds, banned food-aid and initiated better economic plans, the country would easily have the highest GDP per capita in the region today, as it did for decades in the prewar era, largely to do with its sizable population, strategic location, multiple panamax ports and high-value crops. Spare me the clap-trap about prewar Somalia. I don't need that from a regionalist, your a self-proclaimed Puntlander, if prewar Somalia and the aforementioned entity were two seperate places, prewar Somalia would outshine it in every way possible, from military, to economics, to cultural clout, to education and healthcare. All of the major infrastructure in Puntland comes from that era. If Somalia was what your trying to portray it as, what the hell is modern day Puntland? It can't be good! Sorry if that's too unprofessional of me, but you attempted a dose of realistic persepective, and I replied in kind. We however both know the words in the above post aren't really yours.

Alpha Blondy;884036 wrote: do i look or sound funny to you? am i some type of amusement? are you taking the p!ss Apo? for our cordial relations, respect your size and place.

This is a case of indoctrination. Narniah doesn't really feel attracted to Chris Brown for his 'looks' but is enamoured by the hype that surrounds him, and the music he produces, same with Neyo, otherwise Narniah would have simply passed them on the street if they were your average joes. This is the problem Somali men face today, in the grand of scheme of things they have been reduced to average joes. There are no straight pathways for them to reach global fame, most don't have the connections and those that do, are emotionally blackmailed by the community to give up their singing ways like that rising artist Q. Here comes my point, when sisters are bombarded with J-coles, Chris Browns and Lilly Waynes, instead of J-Jama, Guled Warsame and Lil'Farah, their standard of 'handsomeness and beauty' changes as well. I'm not gay, but even I know the Somali guys in this video are better looking than 99% of the male-artists in the music-industry today, the difference is one group has the hype, the other is demonised, emotionally blackmailed and isn't given a chance to strike big. The likes of K'naan are rare. [/end rant]

1. Self-sabotaging societal attitudes. 2. Hypocrisy 3. Myopia

Yasmin :cool:

^I don't get it Ibti, are Somali men not allowed to admire their better halves? There are countless topics around the internet world started by Ajanabis, and nobody is bothered, in-fact I have seen sisters with inflated heads posting more pics than the Ajanabis themselves. Yet we get shot down.

^Its just banter, we do this every blue moon, when Alpha's real inner demons surface lol.

Alpha Blondy;883814 wrote: lol@adams, you pathetic, paternalistic, nanny-state socio-economic gigolo. you're a contortionist who'll say whatever to appease people. are you saying i'm like that greyjoy? he is a traitor no doubt and but at least its reassuring to know his policies on minorities are more sound than yours. LOL Women will soon be ruling your part of the world, whether you like or not, cave man. Must ignore verbal diarrhea from a degenerate reject flip-flopping on steriods lol, I have important history to make!

Mario B;883818 wrote: I believe the President and the PM have put every fadhi khudir and non-fadhi khudir to sleep by moving at a snail's pace. LOL, as long as they have a plan, its all good. I just hope we find out governments agenda, timeline and evaluation of it's programme for next 12 months. Indeed, 2013 will be another important year, the make-or-break era.

Alpha Blondy;883802 wrote: those who accept the pity of humble SOLers are not worthy of mention in the annals of history as they pat themselves on the back for their anti-clan mantra! waar, where is your backbones and clan honour! if you don't value yourself and what you are, none will value you. fight my minority bros and sistas. embrace, accept, organise yourselves for indeed history is on your side.