So to conclude -The Somali genome has a significant Eurasian influence not significant enough to change the Somali Phenotype The haplogroup K2 was found in 10.4% of Somali males. Haplogroup K2 was suggested to have arisen in Eurasia., K2 has a patchy distribution in Cameroon (18.0%), Egypt (8.2%), Ethiopia (4.8%), Tanzania (3.8%) and Morocco (3.6%), probably due to back looool Cameroonians have a higher frequency than Somalis lolololololololol - Somalis are genetically significantly different to Amxaaro Somalis are closer to Amhara's than to any non African group and vastly different to Sub saharan Africans, ok first Somalia is in Sub Saharan Africa which would make them sub saharan africans second Somalis are connected with west Africans through the PN2 clade but are close cousins with Oromos. yep

research has shown that the average Somali is genetically only 15% Caucasian, which includes Arabs, North Africans, as well as Europeans. The rest of the Somali genome consists of 5% Sub-Saharan African genes, and the remaining 80% consists of Cushitic genes. I wrote this person doesn't know the difference between Paternal lineages and Maternal lineages, if he did he would know that Paternal(Father)(Y) is 50% of your Dna structure and Maternal(Mother)(MtDNA) is the other 50% so when he picks little pieces from the Paternal lineages study and says Somalis are 20% something else and 80% cushitic he bassicly in others words simply said Somalis are 130% Cushitic (Hoyoo's side's contribution remember? 50%) because of his misinterpretation of the study you wrote You have misinterpereted the study. A genome is a whole set of DNA of a homogeneous group. no you need to read my replies more carefully cause you continue to make the same mistake, we were discussing a study about Paternal lineages calling it a complete set is oxymoronic if the study was discussing Paternal and Maternal then it would make sense but it didn't!! the guy from your first link copied info from the study and then typed it the wrong way in his own words because he didn't understand the study( are you him? ) In conclusion, the data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population – closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya (Boranas) – with predominant E3b1 cluster DYS392-12 lineages that probably were introduced into the Somali population 4000–5000 years ago, approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia of ever 100 Somali males = 85 males who have no Eurasian Paternal lineages the 15 males who do.. might only have 5 to 10 % Eurasian lineages wich is simply insignificant to change the person's phenotype a Somali male doing a DNA test will have a 85% chance of having no Paternal Eurasian lineages how did those 85 males get their phenotype? Hence if a genome has for example 15% eurasian content, it means that 15% of the genes are from Eurasian origin. It doesnt mean that 15% of the samples were european which you are implying. i never said that i said.. the east Africans you see today are direct descendants of the Ancients ones,therefore it's not East Africans who look like Europeans or Arabs it's Europeans and Arabs who look like East Africans since it was you who implied that Somali have to thank Non Somalis for their looks these are your own words The Somali genotype is not indigenous, because our genome contains 15% eurasian genes My point was that Somalis are different from Amxaaro/oromo/tigray, genomically and significantly enough in phenotype to allow them to be indentified. Your refute the 'lame myth' of Arab/Asian influence in the Somali genome? it must be the other 20% which causes the subtle differences in physical appearance or phenotype. let me repeat myself a Somali male doing a DNA test will have a 85% chance of having no Paternal Eurasian lineages how did those 85 males get their phenotype? Untill you can answer this question the burden of proof rests on your side let us continue you said The average Somali for example is taller than his East African counterparts, i'm not saying that is the cause of 15% eurasian genes, but height is certainly something Somalis are better known for than our neighbours. I gave you measurements done by Hiernaux and you suddenly came with red herrings why?

Originally posted by Centurion: Dave, East Africans are more related to Eurasians than to other African populations. 1, 2, 3 Investigations of Y chromosome markers have shown that the East African populations were not significantly affected by the east bound Bantu expansion that took place approximately 3500 years ago, that's nonsense E3a is what West Africans carry E3b is what East Africans carry, both of them connect through the PN2-clade how are lineages like K2 or Rb1 closer to East Africans than E3a a direct descendant of E3? there talking about the Intermediate position Intermediate position In general, populations cluster by geographic origin. The most distinct separation is between African and non-African populations. The northeastern-African -- that is, the Ethiopian and Somali -- populations are located centrally between sub-Saharan African and non-African populations." These studies suggest a recent and primary subdivision between African and non-African populations, high levels of divergence among African populations, and a recent shared common ancestry of non-African populations, from a population originating in Africa. The intermediate position, between African and non-African populations, that the Ethiopians and Somalis occupy in the PCA plot also has been observed in other genetic studies (Ritte et al. 1993; Passarino et al. 1998) and could be due either to shared common ancestry or to recent gene flow. The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-African populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis makes simple-admixture models less likely; rather, these observations support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies (Tishkoff et al. 1996a, 1998a, 1998b; Kidd et al. 1998) that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of sub-Saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the globe. These conclusions are supported by recent mtDNA analysis (Quintana-Murci et al. 1999). while a significant contact to Arab and Middle East populations can be deduced from the present distribution of the Y chromosomes in these areas. not significant enough to change the Somali people's phenotype and this was the only reason why i provided all these peer reviewed Date which refutes that claim the majority of Y chromosomes found in populations in Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia and Oromos in Somalia and North Kenya (Boranas) belong to haplogroup E3b1 defined by the Y chromosome marker M78.9, 10 A special branch of E3b1, cluster , which was defined by the presence of the otherwise rare Y STR allele 11 in DYS19, was observed in high frequencies in small samples of male Boranas (Oromos) in , while the E3b1 cluster was found in low frequencies in non-Oromos from Ethiopia Just stop it brother please.. the fact that you highlighted that part to support your claim again shows clearly you know nothing about E3b lineages e3b1 underived lineage is found almost solely in East Africa, especially among Somali. It is not found outside of East Africa E3b1 delta is the oldest defined cluster, it's present in the horn and most commonly in the Nile Valley and also spread through the Levantine in the East,This tells us how Levantines and Southern Europeans received African ancestry, and why Arabs, Jews and Greeks in particular retain significant E3b lineages E3b1 gamma is the signature cluster of many/most Cushitic speakers in the horn - the Somali, Borana, and Oromo have this cluster. then you have E3b2 E3b3 etc etc with the oromo case they were talking about 1 lineage which they don't have at a high frequency compared to other groups they were not talking about the multiple other E3b lineages

Originally posted by General Duke: There is no obsession with the North West, its not our fault it has failed to get recognised. Its not our fault it failed to even convince the clans which it claims to be its citizens. Allthough i don't support Somaliland as a seperate state i do recognise the great progress some of these leaders have made for their people without foreigners unlike the Dirty traitors your supporting Its not our fault its a millitarily weak, and corrupt and has no jurisdiction outside the Burco-Berbera-Traingle, which is the hot bed of the clans, from Oodweyne, Tone, Ayoub, Mujahid-SNM, all are from the traingle area. Somaliland is a good idea, thats all. no i won't it's to 2 easy

Originally posted by peacenow: A second tier meeting party for a fifth tier 'president'. You can just look at the distate the British have for this warlord group.

Centurion my fellow Kaaskop let me again show you the fallacy of your argument, case in point you give me a link who's topic starter commits the same error your making example: from the link research has shown that the average Somali is genetically only 15% Caucasian, which includes Arabs, North Africans, as well as Europeans. The rest of the Somali genome consists of 5% Sub-Saharan African genes, and the remaining 80% consists of Cushitic genes. this person doesn't know the difference between Paternal lineages and Maternal lineages, if he did he would know that Paternal(Father)(Y) is 50% of your Dna structure and Maternal(Mother)(MtDNA) is the other 50% so when he picks little pieces from the Paternal lineages study and says Somalis are 20% something else and 80% cushitic he bassicly in others words simply said Somalis are 130% Cushitic (Hoyoo's side's contribution remember? 50%) because of his misinterpretation of the study this same person also doesn't know that this test was a group test and not individual cases wich explains his error on the Y(Abo)+X(Hoyoo)= baby math when you understand these studies then you will realize for yourself Islam is indeed the only thing they left us with ( and a lot of myths that evolved in to a disgusting system ) when i have spread this new Truth to the new generation these young patriots will drop the neolithic system and have loyalty only for ''Somali'' yep yep regarding the Somali looks i can only speak for myself but if those ladies in the images i provided started talking english to me instead of their native tongues i would definitly mistake them for a diasporic compatriot Khalaf sorry brother i get static when i see disunity, many times have i seen Somalis say these things in front of Ajenabi which is very shamefull and i need to put them straight directly

Originally posted by raadamiir: I want the US-Africa command in Somalia. South Somalia may I add. Kismayo or Mogdishu they can chose. We need the money more than Djibouti. Anywhere but P-land typical :rolleyes:

ik woonde vroeger in Veenendaal the groenste stad of Europa peacefull man nu auto's dubbeldekkers hoofdpijn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_literature

Ik miss holland and de mooie boederijen bedankt voor de links

it irritates me that nobody has picture of such an important and influential man why do we love neglecting our scholars and heroes?

nr 17 munich sxb i found it thanks! the dude in the beginning tried to steal something sneaky dude

Originally posted by Centurion: You sure do litter the place with a lot of scientific 'data' for a non-scientist. Okay, let me start with your use of Hiernaux, whose research dates back from 1975. Hardly modern, and on top of that, oh i see the Somalis of today are taller than the ones from the 70's right?? the table you have added is very crude, there are distinct genomic differences between West/Sudanese and Cushitic Africans. Hence tabling them in the same category of 'long Africans' isnt acceptable. you didn't understand the table did you? no problem brother neither did i in the beginning, what you see on the Table has nothing to do with Genetic lineages it illustrates the height and crania measurements of various african groups so therefore if a group has similarities with another ''it is acceptable'' to put them in the same category We need to understand what we are discussing first. You are too keen to highlight indigenousness of Somalis, and miss other things. what is there to miss? the studies speak for themselves if your looking for a disambigious origin for Somalis than of course what i have presented will not satisfy you since they contradict this It is irrefutable that 90% of the time one can tell a Somali from a non-Somali. it's simply hearsay, the images i gave you of other East Africans would confuse any Somali Hence, there must be a significant phenotypic difference between Somalis and other Cushitic branches. any Germanic subgroup member(belgian in this case) will claim he/she can spot their belgian compatriot from a German but a Somali would not know the difference between them just like a Non East African would not know wether those people in the images are either Afar or Oromo or Somali so phenotypic difference? no! simple patriotism yes! Somalis are predominantly Cushitic, there is no doubt about that, you CAN argue that Cushites are the first people ever to walk the earth, and therefore we are as indigenous as indigeous can be. That would be a valid argument. In fact it is even believed that the ancient egyptians were ancient Somalis who migrated to Egypt! There was no such thing as Egyptians or Somalis or any other name of a modern group during that era My point however is that, we are different from other East Africans, due to generations of interbreeding with Arabs and other races, Ad nauseum! have you even taken the time to read my previous posts? quite disrepectfull! i allready refuted these lame myths the primary factor contributing to this being the Sea which has for hundreds of years exposed us to other ethnic groups, Oromos, Amxaaro and Rwandese have always lived in landlocked areas. yet Amhara's carry J lineages at a frequency of 30% My point was that Somalis are different from Amxaaro/oromo/tigray, genomically and significantly enough in phenotype to allow them to be indentified. I did not imply that they are the only ones who have external influences in their genome. iskadaaf sxb it's futile to continue since.. 1 No matter how much info i provide, you will not be satisfied with it since your on a quest to B-astardize Somali people kinda like Shariff Seliyci and his Hashimite/Mahdi craze 2 your Patriotism for your own people in a strange way blinds you from the obvious truth that Somali people resembles Oromo's and Afars to the point when one changes it traditional clothing an outsider would not be able to recognise who is who I think it would be good if you visited East Africa, places like Djibouti or D-ir Dhaba and see for yourself

K'naan in Australia 06 Sydney 029 Be Free 030 The Naturopath 031 Xavier 032 Backstage Inspirations 033 Onstage 034 The Conditions 05 Brisbane 024 Catching Up 025 Mean & Vicious 026 We Like Shitting On 027 My Mothers Pearls 028 Making Fire 04 Chillin 020 Rayzak. A Contemplation 021 Babylon 022 Sunset 023 Listening to Lupe 03 Byron Bay 012 Blues Festival 013 Smile 014 Hardcore 015 Love 016 Freedom 017Lion 018 Soobax 019 Zion 02 Newcastle 006 K'naan's Down 007 K'naan's Back 008 Goomblar 009 The Show 010 More Show 011 Goomblar's Fix 01 Australia 001 Australia 002 Vanity 003 Reconnect 004 An Introduction 005 Cell Phone Soundclash where?

Originally posted by me: Dusty foot album never leaves my CD player, but have you listened to the one before that, the fly 13 one? no sxb i don't think i knew the brother back then Man I used to play that album although I hated it, just to support the dude. Thank god he made the Dusty album,that whole gangster thing on fly 13 wasn't working for him. For me Until the lion learns to speak. especially this bit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz2UZuSk5EU video cracks me up especially the beginning

our beja cousins http://lost-oasis.org/bw2.html beautiful sista

Originally posted by Khalaf: Brothers keep it going, very informative. david u say Somalis, east Africans are indengious period....what exactly does that mean sxb? as in they are not recent migrants to East Africa and the enlongated phenotype is homegrown the east Africans you see today are direct descendants of the Ancients ones,therefore it's not East Africans who look like Europeans or Arabs it's Europeans and Arabs who look like East Africans it's like saying to a father you look like your son! It is said the most ancient genes are traced to Africa too humanity started out looking like the bantus i guess not neccessary the oldest fossils were found in Ethiopia but you know they go to far back for me i stop at 60 kya everything after that feels to blasphemous for me (monkey talk) ...also why the difference between mainland chustic Somalis, Bantus Climate Adaptation Somalis and Ethiopians are also known as Tropical Africans http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercAFRICA.html ...if u say its indengenious? EP73 stuff I don’t get lol .... N Somalis generally vs. Ethiopians vs. oroma one can tell the difference majority of the times. why do you say N. Somalis as if there is a big difference between Northern Somalis and Southern Somalis? (that's ridicilious) and see my earlier analogy of the Dutch girl and the German boy (it's all about the environment) you would have a much harder time spotting a Somali in Oromia evendo they could be passing you one by one without you noticing it this is why the Oromo's taking shelter in Somalia intergrated so easily in Somali society for the last 2 generations I dislike to use pics of sisters but this girl looks exactly like my eritrean friend.......from my friends Ethiopians n Eritreans.....we Somalis and Eritrean look more similar: Lol Eritrean = Beja, Afar, Tigre, Tigrayan, Rashaida, etc etc

I bought Dusty P. on Ebay 4 months ago just for the sake of supporting a fellow Somali a month ago i began listening to it and Damnn i didn't expect it to be so good Smile is my favourite track

Any Somali can more often than not tell a Somali from a non-Somali. A German boy born in Holland, raised in Holland will not see the difference between him and the Dutch girl who was born in Germany and raised in Germany neither would she! if he or she started talking in their adopted language he would mistake her for a german and she would mistake him for a dutch despite him being a German and her being a Dutch A Somali from the Twin Cities will have a harder time spotting another Somali on first sight in Djibouti than he would in MN where there are no Afars xaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaax About the Cameronese, what evidence do you have to make that assertion? In human genetics, Haplogroup R is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup, a subgroup of haplogroup P, associated with the M207 mutation. It is believed to have occurred somewhere in Northwest Asia between 30,000 and 35,000 years ago. However, most of the rare forms of Haplogroup R chromosomes, as well as most cases of the closely related Haplogroup Q, are found among populations of Central Asia, South Asia, Australia, Siberia, Native Americans, and Cameroon (where haplogroup clade RxR1 approaches 40% of the male population). Wikipedia Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)(it's not allowing me to post the link) And anyway, there are dozens of ethnic groups in Cameroon, so you'll have to be more specific. it's found in Northern Cameroon among the Fulbe

80% percent of our genes are certainly indigenous no wrong of every 100 Somali males 80 of them have no Eurasian lineages and the other 20 will have a small amount of J in them as well is E3a but let's not forget these could easily be Somali bendadirs and Somali bantu's these studies were done as a yardstick to examine the amount of foreign lineages in the Somali population as a group not individu. but my point is, Nobody on this planet is pure that is my point so one should not isolate Somali people as being mixed and others as not cause Genetics destroys these myths that we are not wholly indigenous like for example the amxaaro is, see my earlier part of this post about the lineages there carrying we have distinct differences in appearance, height, and hair. burden of proof is on your turf i have allready provided corroborating evidence both in examples(images) of the groups you claim we are so different from and crania data of Somali and it's neighbours which refutes your stand on this matter

From your own quotes, evidence shows we are significantly unlike our neighbours the Oromos and the Amxaaro, so how do you prove we are 100% indigenous? no you need to understand wich type of haplotype were adressing my source was talking about E3b1 wich has it's origin with Somali males( e3b1 is a descendant of E3b) the percentages you saw in Oromo's and Amhara's is the amount of e3b1 there carrying Oromo = Haplogroup E 80% J 3.8% Amhara = Haplotype E 46% J 35% e3b1 underived lineage is found almost solely in East Africa, especially among Somali. It is not found outside of East Africa E3b1 delta is the oldest defined cluster, it's present in the horn and most commonly in the Nile Valley and also spread through the Levantine in the East,This tells us how Levantines and Southern Europeans received African ancestry, and why Arabs, Jews and Greeks in particular retain significant E3b lineages E3b1 gamma is the signature cluster of many/most Cushitic speakers in the horn - the Somali, Borana, and Oromo have this cluster. you should read The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations J. R. Luis,1,2,* D. J. Rowold,1,* M. Regueiro,2 B. Caeiro,2 C. Cinnioğlu,3 C. Roseman,3 P. A. Underhill,3 L. L. Cavalli-Sforza,3 and R. J. Herrera1 wich adresses all the migrations of E3B

Somalis and Ethiopians were called by various 19th century Eurocentric scholars Caucasiods because of their phenotype the reason they said this is because they know fully well that this phenotype is indiginous to the Horn and therefore poses a threat to the fake belief of their own phenotype being indiginous and ''rare'' instead of being a simple subset of the East African group that left East Africa to inhabit the globe thousands of years ago example Carleton S. Coon. The Races of Europe. MacMillan, 1939 A Somali from British Somaliland. This Somali represents the closest approximation to a white man found among his people. The extreme narrowness of his head and face, the straight nasal profile, and the prominence of his chin, mark him as less negroid than many of his fellows. At the same time his skin is nearly black, his hair curly but not frizzy. The type to which this Somali belongs is ancient in East Africa, as shown by the excavations of Leakey in Kenya. It is a specialized, locally differentiated Mediterranean racial form." Note - among his people = Africans - many of his fellows = again Africans in general Coon is just one of the many Eurocentric racist scholars who studies have been debunked and refuted

i'm not saying that is the cause of 15% eurasian genes, Arabs or other muslim groups Somalis intermixed with are not known for their tallness but height is certainly something Somalis are better known for than our neighbours. speculations aside..from Hiernaux Tutsi of Rwanda: Stature: 176 cm Head length: 198 mm Head breadth: 147 mm Face height: 125 mm Face breadth: 134 mm Nose height: 56 mm Nose breadth: 39 mm Relative trunk length: 49.7 Cephalic Index: 74.5 Facial Index: 92.8 Nasal Index: 69.5 Masai: Stature: 173 cm Head length: 194 mm Head Breadth: 140 mm Face Height: 121 mm Face Breadth: 137 mm Nose Height: 54 mm Nose Breadth: 39 mm Relative Trunk length: 47.7 Cephalic Index: 72.8 Facial Index: 89.0 Nasal Index: 72.0 Oromo: Stature: 171 cm Head length: 190 mm Head Breadth: 147 mm Face Height: 122 mm Face Breadth: 133 mm Nose Height: 53 mm Nose Breadth: 37 mm Relative Trunk length: 50.3 Cephalic Index: 77.6 Facial Index: 91.5 Nasal Index: 69.0 Somali: Stature: 168 cm Head length: 192 mm Head Breadth: 143 mm Face Height: 123 mm Face Breadth: 131 mm Nose Height: 52 mm Nose Breadth: 34 mm Relative Trunk length: 50.7 Cephalic Index: 74.5 Facial Index: 94.1 Nasal Index: 66.0 Jean Hiernaux The People of Africa pg 142

Originally posted by Centurion: Thats were you are wrong, distinct differences are seen between Somalis and Oromos, no not really there is no real difference between us and them as i have been approached many times myself by Afars in London speaking to me in their native tongues thinking i'm one of them or Somalis and Tigrays. Since all of them have at least 80% Cushitic genes, it must be the other 20% which causes the subtle differences in physical appearance or phenotype. wrong Tigre's and Amhara's carry J lineages at a frequency of 30% ( this makes sense since they ruled the Arabian peninsula for 50 years) this however did not alter or change their phenotype therefore your wrong The average Somali for example is taller than his East African counterparts, I'm normal (or tall?-180cm) but the next 3 Somali brothers i know are not same with other populations on this planet

Originally posted by Centurion: quote: incorrect! our phenotype is indigineous If you're a scientist you should understand that the phenotype is what appears visually,I am not a scientist but i do know DNA is what determines what particular phenotype a child is born with a Somali mixed with a Chinese sista or brotha will look different than a Somali brotha + Somali sista natural mix (both of them have Somali parents and Grand parents) the phenotype you see today in Somalia is not due to foreign contributions and therefore i'm correct to call it indiginous our genome however is different to that of the Ethiopians, who have a greater percentage of Cushitic genes than the 80% in Somalis. no they carry their own unique type of E3b lineages just the way Somalis carry their own unique lineages, in the end they all connect back to E3B (wich is East African) "The frequency of haplogroup E3b1* in Somali males is the highest observed in any populations to date, and we suggest that the Somali male population is the origin of this haplogroup" (Sanchez et al. 2005). Geographic distribution of the Y chromosome haplogroup E3b1 To examine the relationship between the Y chromosome haplogroups in the Somali, other African and non-African populations, we compared our data with the data from literature (Table 2). The high frequency (77.6%) of haplogroup E3b1 was characteristic of male Somalis. The frequency of E3b1 was significantly lower in Ethiopian Oromos (35.9%), Ethiopian Amharas (22.9%), Egyptians (20.0%), Sudanese (17.5%), Kenyans (15.1%),10 Iraqis (6.3%), Northern Africans (6.1%), Southern Europeans (0.5–5.1%) and sub-Saharan populations (below 1%). Should Egyptians or Sudanese call themselves Somalis just because they carry Somali male lineages at a frequency of above 15%? The Somali genotype is not indigenous, Somalis live in East Africa, E3b and it's descendants e3b1 e3b2 e3b3 lineages have their origin in East Africa there is no current population in East Africa that can claim it was there before the Somali people since the Ancestors of modern East Africans when they split off from each other were not known by the names of the current groups inhabiting East Africa so it's definitly Indiginous!! because our genome contains 15% eurasian genes. Cameroonians carry Eurasian lineages at a frequency of 18% (what's your point?) i bet you would never call them mixed or anything close to that since there is no difference between them and Ghanians