Yes brother MMA that topic sparked my interest a few months ago Somali Sultanate: the Geledi city-state over 150 years by Virginia Luling. Chapter Fourteen examines the role of the annual stick fight known as istun. Luling argues that this ritual combat acts not simply as an outlet for social tensions within the Afgooye community but also serves as a model for broader socio-political relations. In more recent years in particular, rather than a simple ritual conflict between well defined elements of the town, she notes, the annual fights take place between various teams fighting as loose coalitions representing traditional alliances

Mali Hoyooy Mali darandarandara Mali deyoo kadarakara kuli wahaa oohh yeaahhh I love the Female vocals

Originally posted by KEYNAN22: You do know that the southern half of somalia was a swahili entity Swahili was not a centralized polity and Swahili people were not a homogeneous stock of people. The horn of Africa was also know as Al Habash or Zanji, it was a geographic name not a Kingdom or an Empire just like bilad Al Sudan ment the land of the blacks and Ethiopia in ancient times ment everything South of Egypt and wasn't inhabitated by somali nomads before the 15th century? Nonsense stop being so submissive to these colonial writers Ibn Battuta identified the Sultan as a Berberi Somalia was known as the land of the Berber north of Zanji. Ajuuranites were there since the 14th century, the people claiming we weren't there are the same people claiming we are a hybrid race because of their own sinister reasons The somali expansion south and east came very quickly and recently. The swahilis however have been in this region way before the 6th century AD. but Somalis not? So let me get this straight; remains of Ancient Somalis are found in NFD, ruins of Ancient graves and tombs are found in Northern Somalia with the same phenotypes as Somali people,explorers differentiate between the Berberi's and others and call it the Land of the Berbers, yet you want to claim we weren't there despite the area on the far South of Southern Somalia and on the North of Southern Somalia were inhabited by Somali people and tottally surrounded Mogadishu? Based on what? on geographic names? on 19th century racist Eurocentric scholarship? please give me a break PS. those greek names from the peripulas of the Aerythrean sea are from the first century AD ow i see those trading communities sprung up a day before they arrived didn't they? and it doesn't name the ethnicity in this region of somalia, so we can't be for certain that these people who inhabitated the land were the same as modern somalis who today live there. Somalis are a ancient people The Somalis form a subgroup of the Omo-Tana called Sam. Having split from the main stream of Cushite peoples about the first half of the first millennium B.C., the proto-Sam appear to have spread to the grazing plains of northern Kenya, where proto Sam communities seem to have followed the Tana River and to have reached the Indian Ocean coast well before the first century A.D. On the coast, the proto-Sam splintered further; one group (the Boni) remained on the Lamu Archipelago, and the other moved northward to populate southern Somalia. There the group's members eventually developed a mixed economy based on farming and animal husbandry, a mode of life still common in southern Somalia. Members of the proto-Sam who came to occupy the Somali Peninsula were known as the so-called Samaale, or Somaal, a clear reference to the mythical father figure of the main Somali clan-families, whose name gave rise to the term Somali. The Samaale again moved farther north in search of water and pasturelands. They swept into the vast O-gaden plains, reaching the southern shore of the Red Sea by the first century A.D. German scholar Bernard Heine, who wrote in the 1970s on early Somali history, observed that the Samaale had occupied the entire Horn of Africa by approximately 100 A.D before the civil war they were just getting warmed to do some explorations on proven archeological sites like Las Khorey and Ras Xafuun truth will come out one way or another, i piety you if you don't question the motives of those that tried to link everything great with foreigners and exclude the natives

Thanks taako

How could they be the founders of a Trading Empire that predates their existance as a polity? “Opone” and “Essina” were “emporia”, “Niki” had become a “metropolis”and “Serapion” emerged as the new center in the northern coast.-Potelmy let's continue Beyond Opone, the shore trending more towards the south, first there are the smaller and greater bluffs of Azania; this coast is destitute of harbors, but there are places where ships can lie at anchor, the shore being abrupt; and this course is of six days, the direction being south-west. Then come the small and great beach for another six days course and after that in order, the course of Azania, the first being called Serapion (Mogadishu) -Ariano di Nicomedia (60 A. D.) Mogadishu's Trading Empire at it's height “We sailed on from there (Zeila) for fifteen nights, and came to Magadashaw, which is a town of enormous size. It's inhabitants are merchants, possessors of vast resources; they own large numbers of camels, of which slaughter hundreds everyday (for food), and also have quantities of sheep. In this place are manufactured the woven fabrics called after it which are unequalled and exported from it to Egypt and elsewhere. The Sultan is, called only by the title of the Sheikh. His name is Abu-Bakr, son of the Sheikh Omar; he is by the origin of the Berbers, and he speaks in Maqdishi -Ibn Battuta 1333 AD What do we process from this info? A Mogadishu as a Trading community dates back to B.C so attributing people from A.D as the founders of something from B.C is oxymoronic B At it's height it was controlled by Berbers ( Somalis and fellow cushites were known as Black berbers or Berberi's) C the language that was spoken was a native language -not Arabic -Not Persian Said S. Samatar, writing with David Laitin, notes that the Ajuuran sultanate "represents one of the rare occasions in Somali history when a pastoral state achieved large-scale centralization", and notes that it grew larger and more powerful than coastal city-states of Mogadishu, Merka and Baraawe combined. from the 14th century till the 17/18th century Mogadishu came under the influence of the A-juuraan Empire the fact that the Imamaate that eventually caused the collapse of A-juuraan rebelled from Mogadishu speaks for itself A-juuraan Hegemony was over multiple different clans from Hargeisa to Mogadishu is my land i will counter all of this garbage, just because todays Somali intellectuals and historians are to busy with other stuff don't mean they can get away with this :cool:

after 40+ years

-Somali clothing -Somali Dance -Somali festivals * I want to know more about the famous Macawiis and the dirac and other clothing, as well as those female necklaces * I want to know more Buraanbuur,Dhaanto and Jaandheer and other Somali cultural dances * I want to know more about Istunka and Dhabshid anything you have on these subjects like pictures video's websites please post it

There coming to rape us both male and female and take us back to Uganda we out the game...

best SOL duo(couple) Lol@ Jaceylbaro & Hungari aren't both of them males?

Somali women i have noticed are less myopic and see the bigger picture, they are more patriotic and if i had a 1 million man army standing right now i would put in place a system that excludes males from ever becoming a leader of the Somali nation and the females will continue to rule for a thousand years... think about it if Siyaad just stepped down and a woman came in power in 86' or Aideed and Mahdi who continued the destruction of our state had put their ego's aside and allowed a woman to come to power we would not be in this situation and this situation from diasporic destruction of the youth to the destruction of our nation and dignity by outside powers is literally making me sick imagine..just imagine it mayne

No!

Violet what's a cushitic look?

Originally posted by Violet: quote: What would they say if the "Bantu" Rwanda president walked through a Muqdisho cafe? Adeer iska waran shah ma donaysa? The Tutsis aren't of Bantu origin. it's a language category not a Lineage The Hutu, Tutsi, and Twa all speak a Central Bantu language. It is called Kinyarwanda in Rwanda, and Kirundi in Burundi. Both are dialects of the same language. Like other Bantu languages, both use nouns with prefixes. For example, the word Banyamulenge ("Ba-nya-mulenge") can be divided into parts. The prefix "banya" means "people"; "Mulenge" is the name of a region. The whole word means "people of Mulenge." http://www.everyculture.com/wc/Brazil-to-Congo-Republic-of/Tutsi.html

Captain R.E Salkeld -1905 The Waboni are the hunters of Jubaland; they live in no settled habitations but follow game. They are capable of extrodinary feats of endurance. From a Governments point of view they are the only Elephant killers and if they could be communicated with and their confidence gained they would form the best scouts in the country. They are however very shy, and much afraid of their Somali masters They have three divisions (a}Bon Dhurey (b} Bon Aleyli (c} Bon Boran In Kenya

Originally posted by Taliban: How can a clan president and a known war criminal be a hero? :confused: To a clannist he might be even more than just that...

can someone delete this topic? it really lowers the standard of this forum

^so true so true

Originally posted by Taliban: quote:Originally posted by David_Letterman: this is the classic mistake many people make they have this mindset that the eurocentric coined ''true negro'' + Caucasian = Somalis or Ethiopians Are the ''true negro'' the true Africans? Eurocentrics like Coon claimed that africans with broad facial features were the True negro's or true africans and Somali/Ethiopians and Egyptians were called super Negriods because of their phenotype which they tried to paint off as being a foreign contribution but they and many other have been debunked and refuted because of recent genetic data and fossil findings that contradict all these claims

Originally posted by Centurion: The purpose wasn't to deny the undeniable African heritage, but to discuss the other influences in the somali genome which make us just that bit different to the average bantu African. Bantu African you said i said we said he said she said haaaaaa sxb your correct we mullatoe's

Originally posted by N/AA: To summarize , Centurian is advocating Somalis are merely a mix between bantus and non-Africans, whereas David is arguing Somalis are not merely a simple mix but are part of a complex ancient population that might have even fathered the rest of the non-African populations. correct as this is being supported by multiple Geneticists like Sanchez and Tiskhoff Intermediate position In general, populations cluster by geographic origin. The most distinct separation is between African and non-African populations. The northeastern-African -- that is, the Ethiopian and Somali -- populations are located centrally between sub-Saharan African and non-African populations." These studies suggest a recent and primary subdivision between African and non-African populations, high levels of divergence among African populations, and a recent shared common ancestry of non-African populations, from a population originating in Africa. The intermediate position, between African and non-African populations, that the Ethiopians and Somalis occupy in the PCA plot also has been observed in other genetic studies (Ritte et al. 1993; Passarino et al. 1998) and could be due either to shared common ancestry or to recent gene flow. The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-African populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis makes simple-admixture models less likely; rather, these observations support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies (Tishkoff et al. 1996a, 1998a, 1998b; Kidd et al. 1998) that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of sub-Saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the globe. These conclusions are supported by recent mtDNA analysis (Quintana-Murci et al. 1999). Originally posted by N/AA: Very interesting quote that caught my eye. I guess David is on the ball? But David also said: Originally posted by David_Letterman: quote: Originally posted by Centurion: Dave, East Africans are more related to Eurasians than to other African populations. 1, 2, 3 Investigations of Y chromosome markers have shown that the East African populations were not significantly affected by the east bound Bantu expansion that took place approximately 3500 years ago, that's nonsense E3a is what West Africans carry E3b is what East Africans carry, both of them connect through the PN2-clade how are lineages like K2 or Rb1 closer to East Africans than E3a a direct descendant of E3? According to this information, as E3b is carried by by East Africans and Eurasians although it has origins in East Africa. correct Originally posted by N/AA: How can you David argue that Somalis are not a mix but part of an ancient race who might also have fathered Eurasians and at the same instance argue Somalis are more related to sub-Saharan African populations then Eurasians at the expense of your own position that Somalis branched from sub-Saharan African populations early on in the game and fathered Eurasians according to the research you brought. That is one contradiction that garnered my attention. the Elongated ancient east African groups fathered todays Elongated Eurasians the Somali/Ethiopians are the direct descendants of the group that stayed in East Africa while there brothers and sister went on a trip they lost there melanin pigmentation when they adapted to the climate in Europe Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, December 16, 2005; Page A01 Scientists said yesterday that they have discovered a tiny genetic mutation that largely explains the first appearance of white skin in humans tens of thousands of years ago, a finding that helps solve one of biology's most enduring mysteries and illuminates one of humanity's greatest sources of strife. The work suggests that the skin-whitening mutation occurred by chance in a single individual after the first human exodus from Africa, when all people were brown-skinned. That person's offspring apparently thrived as humans moved northward into what is now Europe, helping to give rise to the lightest of the world's races. Source the ancient african ancestors of those with Broad facial features fathered todays Broad facial featured Eurasians (Adaman Islanders etc etc) Melenasians Aborigenes they came from the Same Ancestors as todays Broad facial featured Africans in Africa and both of those Ancient African groups(Elongated and Broad) carried L3 L3 is the African group that gave rise to the two non-African groups, M and N, which are two of the three major Eurasian founder groups. N gave rise to the third. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050509/outofafrica.html

Originally posted by Caamir: I encountered THE PEOPLE OF AFRICA, by Jean Hiernaux. P. 144-145. You omitted the Sab Somali, among the several samples of his experiment. In this case, there is a big difference between the Somali and the Sab. Hiernaux in 1970's did not have the same genetical information todays geneticists and antropologists have so his measurements on these different populations are relevant but his opinion in terms of genetics is irrelevant and outdated the fact that i ommitted Sab was because Centurion was adressing physical measurements of the Somali from the so-called noble clans compared to their neighbours If you read the recent Genetical information you will understand it's a fallacy to call Somalis arabized since 1 we speak our own native tongue 2 we carry our own native genes

Originally posted by Centurion: Dave, tell me, has Cushites>Bantu's and Caucasoids been scientifically proven? with cushites>Bantu you mean Cushite fathered Bantu right? if you do, all i can say i never said that, cause 1 when the groups splitted 24kya or 100kya ago to different regions in Africa and abroad you allready had the proto-Elongated groups and those with broad features inhabiting East Africa (cause that's the place all humans originate from, according to experts and therefore it shouldn't come as a suprise that there is even till today a diverse stock of indiginous Africans living there) but putting a bantu tag on them or a cushite tag on them is incorrect since Bantu's like the Tutsi's also originate from the proto-elongated groups and those groups were black E3b the lineage originating with the Proto-Somali/Ethiopian groups and E3a originating with Proto-bantu groups connects back to E3(East African in origin hence a Tutsi and a Somali are related through the PN2-clade) And if Cushitis>Eurasians, why do Eurasians not have a significant Cushitic influence? The E3b haplogroup is common in Mediterranean countries such as Italy and Greece, and is also found at lower frequencies in northern and central Europe. The ancestors of the E3b haplogroup probably lived in the horn of Africa (present-day Somalia) during the last Ice Age and moved into Europe via the Middle East during the Neolithic migration around 9,000 years ago. Some believe that Roman settlers brought the E3b haplogroup to northern Europe, although it may have arrived far earlier, with Neolithic farmers, or later, with Medieval traders or other immigrants from the Mediterranean region. The frequency of E3b in England is between 0%-6% depending on the location. By contrast, E3b is present in about 25% of Silicians and Greeks, and 50%-80% of North Africans. either the Romans had East African male slaves( historically incorrect) who then became concubines of Roman and Greek women or this genetic male influence goes back long before the Roman Empire and all other Empires (9-16 kya) Again, how am i saying that? I'm actually saying that Bantu's must've reached (and sure have) Somalia. We have observed only a few individuals with the E3a haplogroup in our Somali population, thus, supporting the view that the Bantu migration did not reach Somalia -Newman JL. The Peopling of Africa: A Geographic Interpretation New Haven, USA: Yale University Press 1995 And you said Somalis are indigneous :rolleyes: That was exactely my initial point, Somalis aren't 100% Cushitic, there's a Eurasian influence. that was not your point don't play me for a fool brother you said because of this insignificant influence our phenotype changed and that was the only reason why i kept coming back Anyway, since it seems you are the better Anthropologist, perhaps you can sum up your position on this in your next post. I'm not a Antropologist but i do like reading this stuff, Somali/Ethiopians are a big threat to Europeans in terms of looks and the fact that in the past they would classify Ancient Egyptians with Elongated features as non African wich is not the truth

brother this is my last reply to you cause you argue for the sake of arguing and i aint got time for that, i'm not here to win neither do i see this discussion as a contest but more like a waste of time Originally posted by Centurion: Classic mistake? I think thats THE theory antropologists agree on, unless you are aware of Cushitic > Bantu studies, agree on? no recent peer reviewed Antropologist or Geneticist support that claim, but who was talking about antropologists or geneticists?? i was talking about the average person with no knowlegde of lineages or language distribution in Africa who might see an East african with the so-called ''caucasian facial features'' and think ''Bantu'' + Arab or European = ''East African'' and thats the classic mistake i was referring to. if the Bantu expansion never reached the Horn of Africa (Somalia,Ethiopia,Eritrea,Djibouti) explain this to me, who were the people living there? and why do the Hieroglyphs from Hapsehut's tomb of Punt from the 25th century B.C (no such thing as Arabs or European back then nor did they have any influence in east africa) resemble todays East Africans? Somali people do not resemble half Bantu half Arab/Portuguese mix like the people living in Zanzibar or Kilwa or Mombassa the E3b1 lineage that orginated with Somali males has a higher frequency in Sudanese and Egyptian population than Somali people have Eurasian Lineages this contribution which you continue to hold on to is insignificant and did not alter the Somali indiginous Enlongated Phenotype which prove that Bantu's are descendents of a forefather of current Cushites? neither of them is the father, the time the ancestors of todays Africans splitted into groups and adapted to their climate like the tropical Africans predates any of todays languages or Lineages but we do know that Fossils that were found in Kenya close to NFD from the pleistocene era resemble todays East Africans Jean Hiernaux, "The People of Africa", 1974, 1975, p.140 The skeletons of hunter-fisher-gatherers of the Stone Age all belong to populations characterized by tall stature, generally with a long and narrow head, high and narrow face and nose, and frequently showing subnasal prognathism - features which are all displayed by the living Elongated Africans. Such skeletons include those associated with Gamble's Cave, Naivasha and Olduvai, who may date to about 4,000 B.C.; the makers of the ensuing Mesolithic Elmenteita culture of Bromhead's Site; the remains associated with neolithic stone bowl culture at Hyrax Hill and Njoro River Cave(dated by carbon 14 to 960 B.C.), and with more recent stone bowl culture at Willey's Kopje, Makalia and Nakuru, which almost certainly date from the Iron Age." Meh, i believe i've said before that of course Somalis are predominantly Cushitic, i included to that, that there's a significant Eurasian influence, Somalis are NOT 100% Cushitic. nobody is 100% anything you wrote -The Somali Genome has been influenced significantly by the eurasian genome. i wrote not significant enough to change the Somali populations phenotype you wrote Of course not , since we are predominantly Cushitic our phenotype will be predominantly that of Cushitic people, finally Poww but one can still tell Somalis apart from other Cushites. again i'm not so sure about that claim Explain to me how you managed to deduce this from my sentence. Did i not say that Somalia is one of the places where Bantu and Eurasians mixed? from your post Did i not say that Somalia is one of the places where Bantu and Eurasians mixed what i deduce from this post and the one before is.. 1 the Bantu's are the natural heirs of Somalia or the Horn of Africa (where are the Horn Africans during this so-called mix between these two groups who's genes don't even predominate Somali/Ethiopian genes? on the contrary it's insignificant!) 2 The bantu + Eurasian mix = Somali people i've refuted this ad nauseam a Pleistocene era Fossils of the Somali and Ethiopian Ancestors with the same Enlongated Phenotype were found in East Africa(kenya) b Bantu expansion never reached the Horn of Africa making Horn of Africans the true heirs of their own native countries c East Africans carry East African male and Female genes therefore Bantu + this or that = a non sequitur And while your doing that, elaborate on the Chinese part of that badly written sentence.. by your logic the looks of todays Han chinese should be the result of an ancient melting pot (silk road [[Persians,Indians,Romans]]) wich is not the case despite them having a vast Trading Empire and coming in contact with multiple groups Prove it, i believe Non-Somalis can. A chinese will claim he can differentiate his compatriot from a Japanese would i be able to differentiate between them even if they started talking in their native tongues? i don't think so.. Lol, i googled furiously after i saw that map of yours, and alas my knowledge of Africa will never quite be the same told ya :cool: take care brother

Originally posted by Centurion: Dave, old horse, your thorough, i give you that! OK, let me begin Regarding the samples,and the significance of 15 Eurasian genes, it seems i was wrong, having backtracked to the article from which it was derived, i know understand it to mean that 15% of samples had significant Eurasian lineages. I've decided to accept your plea, and actually read your posts, lol. And you said this quote: no i reject it i'm not a mixed product i'm a Cushtite and my facial features are indiginious Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't Cushites a product of Caucasian and Negroid intermixing?this is the classic mistake many people make they have this mindset that the eurocentric coined ''true negro'' + Caucasian = Somalis or Ethiopians this is wrong cause Somalis and Ethiopians don't carry West African lineages or speak Bantu languages so if there were no so-called True negro's you have an empty seat, my point was East Africans carry Predominantly East African male genes so it would be foolish to say that they are a mix when the beforementioned groups don't even have Paternal or Maternal lineages predominating the so-called mixing groups Somali people are not hybrids simple as that! So we are hardly indigenous Africans. We are of course, indigineous Cushites. that was an Oxymoron do European or Asian cushites exist anywhere on this planet where they have been inhabiting that part of the globe for millenia's?? The whole northern broad extension of the African continent, reaching from Cape Verde in Senegambia to Cape Guardafui in Somalia,has been a contact area between the Caucasians and Negroid races. the Bantu Expansion never reached Somalia by your logic the Han Chinese because of the Silk road should be one big mixing pot and a hybrid race wich is not true same goes for Somali people It is irrefutable that Somalis/Cushitics located in relative close proximity to the sea/ocean were exposed to and influenced by Eurasian genes. see above.. Somalis have always lived closer to the Sea than Oromos/Amxaaro, so has that perhaps lead to a more influenced genome? And if so, does that make the Somali phenotype distinguishably different? I believe so, and so am sure does almost everybody else. Like i said an average Somali can be picked out from amongst Oromos and Tigrays. would a Non Somali be able to differeniate between these groups? no! and that's the only thing that matters you still after all the info i provided try to attribute our indiginous phenotype to Europeans and arabs that shows you have an agenda and it doesn't matter how much info i give you will reject it We agree on -the fact that Amxaaro and oromos(more so) by far a Somalis closest cousin correct including the Beja's of Egypt and Sudan and the Afars of Djibouti -The Somali Genome has been influenced significantly by the eurasian genome. not significant enough to change the Somali populations phenotype Oh, and Somalia isnt part of Sub-Saharan Africa. So what exactely is je probleem? Sub Saharan Africa :cool:

Originally posted by KEYNAN22: And what alternatives do you have? Sitting in the west and spewing diarrhea through the internet will not change the reality on the ground.Either you come up with a feasible alternative which could break the political stalement in somalia and then go down to implement it, or you keep quite and enjoy the spectator seat while these men are doing their jobs. i couldn't care less if we had 20000 different states within Somalia but NEVER EVER would i become a buttlicker and support foreign aggression from disgusting planes and tanks on my people no matter which region they reside the only cyber diarrhea i see here being spewed is from individuals like you who try to justify this inhumane agression by saying the ends justify the means Never!!!