Duke your a posterchild qabiilist don't expect me to honor you with a reply similar to the one i gave Qalbi-Adeyg, shaydaanka iska naar sxb

Originally posted by Qalbi-Adeyg: quote:Originally posted by Adam-Zayla: [qb] Nothing concrete about them and i don't recall reading anything like that in my books, more like your version of history. Seriously let's stop the verbal acrobatics and be straight forward, with ''those who reside in the triangle'' you mean the I-clan, well here is some info for you to digest on: It is difficult to see how thousands upon thousands of nomadic tribesmen, spread of over a area of some hundred miles, could have been sufficiently intimidated for a long period of time in any way that could make them useful to the Sayyid. They could be attacked, of course and in some cases were, but the Sayyid was after support, not dead men. The fact that in the major campaigns he was supported by so many followers drawn from a wide range of tribes, and that his armies included not only men from **** tribes but often from the **** as well, seems now to indicate that his uprising represented a grassroots movement of considerable proportions - Heart of a Stranger pg 52 by Margeret Laurence There were leaders who alligned themselves with the Sayyid and there were leaders who sided with the British(this happened elsewhere aswell with different clans) but i don't give a toss about leaders much the same i couldn't care less about modern day Somali leaders, it's the people that matter and their actions clearly contradict your version of ''history Sayyid besides the standing Dervish military had a para-military/militia consisting of 50 thousand people and these were not always the most kind of people and caused the Sayyid considerable damage in terms of his reputation with their thirst for looting, he eventually disbanded this militia, but to many the damage was allready done. Let's be realistic, the sayid's army was mostly from the **** tribe especially his own the **** tribe and that of his mother, the **** tribe. What's this need to repaint history as if all somali's were fully behind the sayid's campaign? The fact is although a few somalilanders were part of the sayid's army, mostly those **** tribe.The two clans you mentioned were very important and their troop contribution to Sayyid's army would be around 30-35 thousand soldiers(it's ridicilous to claim they were capable of more than that). Sayyid at his peak had around 70/80 thousand troops and a large militia force. All through his alliances with leaders from across Somalia all the way to NFD. So indeed Sayyid's quest to defeat the European empires was a Somali quest 'through and through' and one that cannot be turned into a petty clan project The sayid and his dervish movements were notorious for looting and killing somali people of certain tribes(somaliland tribes), As if he was 'kind' to his father's or his mother's clans, please brother he was ruthless to all those who stood in his way of victory,and there is even a letter where the Sayyid confirms he never ordered the looting and pillaging of non-combatants and confirmed that the militia's were out of his control(don't confuse them with his standing army). There are also examples where one of his commanders decide to act on their own and commit a serious blunder like killing a significant figure which lost the Sayyid support including his so-called blood-clans but through diplomacy the valuable support returned hence why majority of somali's turned against him. But somalilanders, were always against the sayid and were majority pro-british . Let's not revise history to soothe people ego's. Were Puntlanders pro-Italian just because they signed treaties with them? of course not! Sayyid drew many of his troops from that region aswell and this included support from Sultans such as Isman Mahmoud - But it is a mistake to imagine that he was denied I-clan support, for often many of his followers belonged to this rival I-clan family - Somali Poetry an Introduction pg 13 by B. W. Andrzejewski, I. M. Lewis - I think this post of yours brother to be honest, is a knee-jerk reaction to Ibtisam's reply, because you mentioned 'soothing someone's ego'(?) when my original intention was never that( and why shouldn't any self-respecting Somali feel pride in the history of their ancestors?, seems like your trying to deny certain sections of our society exactly that!). I corrected SomaliCastro in his attempt to turn universal Somali symbols into petty clan projects The only somali hero that had the full support of all somali's irrespective of tribe was Axmed gurey and even his ethnicity is questionable. His ethnicity is only an issue amongst Pan-ethiopianists: (1)Edmond Joseph Keller: Led by the charismatic Somali leader Ahmad Gran (Imam Ahmed Ibn Ibrahim El-Ghazi), a coalition of Muslim invaders consisting mainly of Somali and Afar (2)Chatterji: A Somali chief of Adel, a Muslim state on the Gulf of Aden, named Ahmed ibn Ibrahim by using the new weapon completely overthrew the Ethiopian kingdom (3)Beckingham: Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al Ghazi, called 'the left-handed' by the Somali, (gran in Amharic), was a Somali in the service of the ruler of Zeila. (4)Groves: The leader was a Somali chief, Ahmad ibn Muhammad Gran, Muslim ruler of a border state, who with great energy and resource pressed home the invasion of Abyssinia (5)Whiteway: He was certainly not an Arab: probably he was a Somali, for we find him closely connected with many who were Somalis. (6)Langer: Ethiopia was overrun by the Moslem Somali chief, Ahmed Gran, who used firearms (7) Alexander Bulatovich: "In Portuguese sources he is called King of Adal and Emir of Zeila, and they conjecture that he was Somali" -- from Ethiopia Through Russian Eyes: Country in Transition, 1896-1898 (8) In 1541, when a four-hundred- man Portuguese expedition arrived in Abyssinia, a Somali Moslem leader — Iman Ahmed, known as Gran — was threatening to extinguish the kingdom (9) Elaine Sanceau: Imam Ahmed, once an obscure Somali warrior from Harar had risen to supremacy among the muslim tribes (10)Andargachew Tiruneh: Harar, led by Gragn who was probably a Somali, overran the length and breadth of the central and northern Highlands from 1529 to 1543 (11)Saheed A. Adejumobi: Ahmed ibn Ibrahim al Ghazi was a Somali Imam and general who defeated several Ethiopian emperors and wreaked much damage on that nation. He is also known as Ahmad Gran (or Gurey). (12)M. Th. Houtsma: Shortly afterwards there began the great invasion of the Somali chief, Ahmed b. Muhammed Gran (13)Ahmed Ibrahim Al Ghazi but more commonly known as Gran, was in fact thé Imam Ahmad and probably a Somali (14)Walter Yust: Between 1528 and 1540 armies of Mohammedans, under the renowned general Mohammed Gran (probably a Somali), entered Abyssinia from the low country (15)The tale he told was that the Abyssinian kingdom had been cut in two by an invasion by a Somali chief known as Granye the Left-handed. (16)A new Muslim aggressor, the Somali upstart Ahmed ibn Ibrahim, known as Granye ("Lefty"), had reversed Ethiopia's military successes (17)Harold Edwin Hurst: Ahmed Gran, who, between 1528 and 1540, overran most of the country. The Portuguese were determined to discover and kill the Somali leader (18) Ahmad Gran b. Ibrahim, a Somali from Harar who conquered much of Ethiopia for Islam in the sixteenth century (19) intervention of a small Portuguese force preserved the Christian state from complete destruction by the Islamic forces of the Somali leader Ahmad Gran (20) Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim, a religious leader who was probably Somali (21) Tensions came to a head when Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim, a religious leader who was probably Somali, was named amir of the eastern Islamic city of Harar (22)Paulos Milkias, Getachew Metaferia: Somali Ahmad ibn Ibrahim (known in Ethiopia as Gragn Mohammed - the left handed) ran over the highland and devastated churches and shrines in the 1530s during the reign of Libne Dengel i could go on and on... I even question the sayid's ambitions, reading history it would suggest the man was a typical somali warlord with a thirst for power. At one point he himself, even decided to ally himself with the colonialists. I have a jstor article of that. I really hope your not referring to that silly Illig agreement which was only ment to buy time (since Sayyid had just repulsed four British expeditions, a feat unheard of in Africa, especially considering the power of the British at the time) If you consider the visionary Sayyid a warlord(usually an opinion held by Somalinet refugees -not saying that you are one!) then so were Ferdinand II & Isabella and Otto von Bismarck and Napoleon, matter fact we could use that term on all leaders throughout history who fought to unify their people and drive out invaders

Many incorrect statements there Qalbi-Adeyg it's too late now, i'm going to bed, but i will address each and every one of them tomorrow( if this topic hasn't diverted into a flamefest with one - two liners back and forth, cause then we will have to open a seperate topic)

Abyssinian leaders signed treaties with Belgium. Had Belgium been a power comparable to Britain, history could have been different. If Sayyid was a christian and Somalis were a christian people the European powers would not have been so determined in subjugating us and would have left the country after their first defeat in the 1901 expedition.

Brother me no disrespect but i really don't get where your going. Is your topic's purpose to discuss what fueled the 'previous stagnant European countries' into becoming seaborne Empires? Is it to envisage a strong Somalia competing with the rest of the world? Is it intended to be a haven for pessimism and self doubt because of the current state of our country? please, clarify yourself and i will continue to contribute tomorrow when i wake up, cause right now, i really don't know where your going brother!

Nothing concrete about them and i don't recall reading anything like that in my books, more like your version of history. Seriously let's stop the verbal acrobatics and be straight forward, with ''those who reside in the triangle'' you mean the I-clan, well here is some info for you to digest on: It is difficult to see how thousands upon thousands of nomadic tribesmen, spread of over a area of some hundred miles, could have been sufficiently intimidated for a long period of time in any way that could make them useful to the Sayyid. They could be attacked, of course and in some cases were, but the Sayyid was after support, not dead men. The fact that in the major campaigns he was supported by so many followers drawn from a wide range of tribes, and that his armies included not only men from **** tribes but often from the **** as well, seems now to indicate that his uprising represented a grassroots movement of considerable proportions - Heart of a Stranger pg 52 by Margeret Laurence There were leaders who alligned themselves with the Sayyid and there were leaders who sided with the British(this happened elsewhere aswell with different clans) but i don't give a toss about leaders much the same i couldn't care less about modern day Somali leaders, it's the people that matter and their actions clearly contradict your version of ''history Sayyid besides the standing Dervish military had a para-military/militia consisting of 50 thousand people and these were not always the most kind of people and caused the Sayyid considerable damage in terms of his reputation with their thirst for looting, he eventually disbanded this militia, but to many the damage was allready done. [ January 12, 2009, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

Somalipride makes sure you take pictures of Historical sites aswell, there are around seven castles and fortresses in old Bosaso and 3 or 4 castles in Bandar Ziyada

Brother me no country on the African continent in that era was being attacked by multiple empires at the same time like our ancestors were yet the entire continent was colonized before us while our ancestors repulsed the invaders and drove them to small coastal enclaves so i doubt it had anything to do with lack of strength. Even now a foreign proxy army serving as a condom for the Western powers failed miserably and couldn't even controll a few pockets in Mogadishu let alone the entire country. To say Somalia is more eligible for future conquest than any other country in Africa is laughable The real issue is lack of unity which is what prevents Somalis from giving that last devastating punch to their enemies, it's the absence of this significant factor that prevents us ultimate victory. A picture of a victorian couple being carried on a chair doesn't signify anything for me bro!

Qalbi-Adeyg I could show you a similar image involving puntlanders/Southerners and this is nothing to be ashamed about. No me that's your own interpretation of the picture, because 1 the original picture had a different text(nothing like what is written on the copy you posted) from a book published 50/60 years ago(can't remember the title). Secondly there are similar images from places such as Siam(Thailand) who were never colonized or dominated by foreigners. You could say that it was European wealth that enabled them to travel to foreign lands such as Siam, China and Japan and receive such treatment Thirdly these 'carrying men' were not 'slaves' but actual paid men like the ones in China and India constrast this with the Dervish State where there were actual European weapons manufacturers being used as forced labourers in Sayyid's Castle are you telling me that if one of his followers had taken a photo of them that this image would be a symbol of Somali dominance over Europeans? not really! In my eyes this picture is exactly how i described it in my previous post and one shouldn't make more of it. If you want real symbols from the era of European dominance look no further than the giving away of our traditional territories to other countries which sucked us into this mess in the first place. If you want symbols of Somali resistance look no further than the giant Somali Castles of that era that have survived and outshine every single Colonial relic.

Maybe he read 'screwed'' lol

What is there to face me? A European couple going on a safari or the fact that they are being carried by paid men? This is not unique(to any part of the world pre-automobile age) nor is it bad or ugly.

SomaliCastro don't use Universal Somali figures for your own clan interests, you disgust me. The so-called clan your degrading with the slur Uncle Tom had numerous leaders and fighters joining the Dervish State. If i had access to my books i would cite them. Seriously i don't think it's wise that a myopic and hatefull character such as yourself became a spokes person for 'any Somali group' political or non-political.

^You mean this Article written by the sister Rakiya Omaar?(who btw sympathizes with Somaliland's bid for recognition). She uses eye-witness accounts from people who recently suffered from the brutal actions of the Dictatorship, what gain would those people get from pointing the finger to Riyaale?(this is before the collapse of the central government, before Somaliland,Puntland etc). Seems like your defending the undefendable Morgan,Yey,Indocadde,Riyaale,Geedi etc and their minions, I sincerely hope they all die of a brutal heartattack Originally posted by NGONGE: LOL!! (is this from a Korean/Japanese movie? which one?)

Oodweyne - thanks for the thorough response. My reason for asking your opinion on the excerpt was to see if you were a man of double standards, clearly your are not. It's good to see that you do not agree with his answer, the fact that nobody in the aforementioned topic distanced themselves from his words, would give anyone disgusted by the gross human rights violations inflicted on innocent civilians in Southern Somalia a sinister impression of the topic's participants. As hideous as the current political landscape of the Horn of Africa may be, such statements as the one by Mr. A. M. Dualeh are very dangerous in the long run because what i personally deduced from the minister's words is that Somaliland condones this extremely barbaric dark episode in recent Somali History which is counterproductive. There are more fruitfull, less morally wrong paths for Somaliland to further it's interests, this is not one of them!

Oodweyne your putting justifiably the 'knife of hypocrisy' in the hearts of TFG supporters but what's your personal opinion on the comments made by the foreign minister of Somaliland in this topic - question nr 8. Do you agree with his comments?

Shyrose this place is like a lounge not a disco. It's going to irritate you at the beginning because you want quik and direct replies to your posts but as time goes by you will get used to it and before you know it, you'll be iritating newbies with your own slow replies.

MARX - 75/80% of Somali Americans are self employed and the fastest group off welfare according to a recent study, so Somalis through their individual and collective business endeavours will create job opportunities for themselves. Che - thank you very much for this beautiful story. The Chinese overseas communities have been doing this for years hence why they are so successful.

lol@your looool Be a shy Rose...

Welcome to the forums, ShyRose!

Well done Emiratis. *Blessed* are you aware of the fact that the Emirati elite have spend that amount of money on silly stuff like English football clubs or the Chrysler building? etc I really hope the Palestinians get their own Rafik Hariri(sole reason why after decades of war Lebanon remains a shining pearl in the Middle East and the region's banking capital)

Originally posted by Abdinasir Kadawo: Can anyone develop more of this meaning? And what does it mean in international law? Maybe Adam Zayla can! I have no clue bro! I think brother HornAfrique would be the best person to ask such a question!

^Why the ad hominems brother? btw do you have more info on the Awdal Roads Company? I heard of this company years back and they had some interesting projects but then there whole website went missing and that was the last time i heard of them.

nr 8. LMAO!! the rest not so..(nr 13. i don't get it :confused: )

Originally posted by Suldaanka: quote: Originally posted by Poker: JB and Suld How come there are no videos of Mah'd Mooge? I always wonder that. sad isn't it.I'm pretty sure there are videos of him somewhere, i keep seeing cool videos of old Somali Artists and Riwayads popping up at Universal Tv which i can't find or locate anywhere on the net. Bartamaha is also a good place to keep an eye on, cause they always come with some very interesting and rare Somali videos