Interesting analysis by Culusow. However, he should have taken a harsher line on ''neo-colonialism'' and should have succesfully argued against the ''UN Trusteeship'' plan which is slowly implemented on the ground. The supporters of the foreign-created regime have alot of explanation to do. Do they support the gradual transfer of decision-making power from Somalis to UN institutions, and eventually foreign powers (Western countries)? Do they support the current gradual creation of a ''Trusteeship'' going on in Somalia?

Nassir, What is your view of Faroole's statement and the shamefull selling of Somalis to Ethiopia?

Originally posted by Koora-Tuunshe: I firmly believe that the name should stay the same even when liberated. Those who debate about the name change are just playing Qabiil Card. The name has nothing to do with Tribalism. It is the same thing as the following: -Malaysia was named after the Malay tribe, becouse they are the majority in Malaysia. -The capital of Wyoming “Cheyenne” was named after the Cheyenne Tribe. -Paris- was named after the tribe who found it----Parisii of Gallic tribe. The list can go on and on… Aduunyada waxaa jira xitaa wadamo loogu magac darey shaqsiyaad…. Qabyaalada iska daaya oo taageera the ONLF struggle. Ama marmarsiinyada iska daaya. Shaqsiyaadka waxaa ka mid ah: -Angola was named after a person------Ngola Kiluanje -America was named after-------------Amerigo Vespucci -Musambique was named after-------------Musa Mbiki The European colonists who aided the Ethiopian colonization of Somali Galbeed created that name, should we accept that along with the fact that the region is under Ethiopian occupation for more than a half century? NO! You can not accept one Imperial construction (the name for the region) and oppose the other imperial construction (the region been part of Ethiopia).

Sherban Shabeel and Allamegon, This topic is a reaction to a silly and inconsistent argument brought forward by the leader of ONLF. I oppose his argument and showed the inconsistency in it. It is up to those who disagree with me to bring forward their argument. On a last note, Those that want to keep the ''O'' name should not hide behind the liberation struggle because other rebel movements that are more inclusive and not clan-based are active too. One can oppose the clan element in the struggle without opposing the liberation struggle. Lets hope that those who want to liberate the region will rise above clan and understand the true nature of the situation: Not 1 clan is occupied, Not 1 nation is occupied but multiple clans and nations (Oromo/Somali/Afar etc).

Abtigiis, Your arguments make sense. Ever since the collapse of the Somali Republic it seems like that all Somali groups are looking out for their own interest, and as long as the Somali Republic is under siege by centrifugal forces of separation/division that appeal to clan emotions things will stay the same. Having said that, you overstate the disadvantages of dropping the ''****'' name. The main ideology of ONLF is sound and has the power to attract mass support from all Somalis. There is Ethiopian colonization going on, and all Somali groups understand that and would love to live in freedom. However, the TPLF-run Ethiopian regime is using a classic divide-and-rule strategy and because of this those that fight for the just cause of independance need to involve all those who live under the occupation. By using the ''O'' the whole struggle is limited to people who only support the cause because of clan interest and not because of its true interest: Independance and the right of self-rule. Thousands of young men in the bush, and those funding the organisation because IT BELONGS TO THEIR CLAN (let us not shy away from this) might get confused and lose the zeal. As this will not be offsetted by large contributions of fighters from other clans, it is a lose-lose situation. It is precisly because of that unfortunate situation (clan-based struggle) that many Somalis sympathize with the liberation struggle but on the other hand look at it with suspicion. That unfortunate situation (clan-based struggle) will also be used by those who are against the just cause of liberation struggle to undermine the ONLF organization and discredit its ideology. I do not have to remind you at the poor propaganda campaign launched by those who supported Ethiopian occupation of Somalia, which was ment to discredit the just cause by associating it as ''a struggle only concerning those Somali groups in Mogadishu''. Lastly, On the long run, the ONLF will lose out to other liberation organizations (run by Somalis) that are more inclusive and consistent in their ideology. I would not be surprised if Alshabab-kinda groups emerged in Somali Galbeed who would rally larger support from various Somali groups. All in All, ONLF is conducting a superb armed resistance struggle. I and all sane Somalis support that just war to liberate Somali lands that are under Ethiopian occupation. Let us now find a solution to the fundamental question of: '' How can we make the liberation struggle Somali-wide and develop a broad Somali-based ideology that will attract mass support'' The trend of every clan/subclan making its own liberation front will undermine us all, and aid the Ethiopian colonizer. [ October 30, 2009, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

Me, The Islamist warlord factions are gradually been drawn into clan-structured Somali society and already we can see that they are relying on clan bases for their struggle: Raas Kamboni/Canoole as case in points. Dont become the opposite of NGONGE and argue ''CLAN IS NOTHING''. Also, it is clear to all that the Islamist warlord factions are manipulating clan loyalties as was shown by the previous illustration of the governors they named for particular regions. Lastly, There is no doubt that Somalia will be strong again, but for that to happen we need to evaluate our past mistakes and work towards the future. There is no point in denying basic facts on the ground or in shying away from critical analysis of political factions. As for the ONLF discussion, lets continue that in the appropriate topic. PS: Do not put my Somaliness in question. If there is anyone who should be doubted, it surely is those that want to turn our country in a Kilinka 6-aad or an Afganistan.

PS: This topic has nothing to do with the shameless and treacherous handing over of Somali civilians to the Ethipian ocupation army, which recently happened in Northeastern Somalia. The topic is a reaction to the interview of the Admiral.

Me, Perhaps you can shed light on the insistence by ONLF on the use of a name which is a major obstacle to the struggle to liberate Somali lands from Ethiopian colonization. Bear in mind, that there is no point to go into the worthyness of the struggle as I admire their resisstance struggle too. This topic is ment to find answer to the question of: ''Why ONLF leader uses the socalled Int.recognition argument for the name of the region''? My argument in this topic stands.

Who are the socalled ''wadaado''? Is it Sh.Sharif? Is it Sh.Aweys? Is it Sh.Godane, is it Sh.Macow? Is it anybody with claims to ''clerical status''? Who exactly falls under your category ''wadaado''. That alone shows that those who were seen as the ''wadaado'' are deeply fractured and already show warlord tendencies. Clannism is very much alive, and even the socalled ''wadaado'' have come to terms with it and are heavily engaged in its manipulation in support of their struggle for political power. If we look at the socalled Islamic administrations the various Islamist factions have established in Southern Somalia, we can clearly see how they are manipulating clan dynamics. - In Banadir, both Xisbi Islam and Alshabab have named their ''governor'' from the reer Matan, who make a claim on the region. Surely, they must have done this to give their ''administration'' some sort of legitimacy and support from those that are perceived as majority in that region. A classic Maqaar-saar tactic that undoubtedly played its part in their struggle. - In Baay/Bakool, the previous RRA administration is just replaced by an Alshabab administration led by men who clan-wise hail from that region. - In Lower Jubba, we have all witnessed the conlict between the two factions who were allied in their struggle. That conflict showed two things: it is about MONEY AND CLAN. - In Hiiraan, we have socalled Islamic administrations on both sides of the river who are not united. - In M.Shabelle, we have a socalled administration that is composed of men who first were members of ICU and are clan-wise from the region. Lastly, we have all heard Godane's speech in which he praised certain Somali groups who were instrumental in winning some battles in Ceelbuur (Galgaduud), and Dayniile (Banadir). More importantly, we are all aware of the ''peace agreement'' Alshabab entered with a dominant clan from Hiiraan. Clan-based Islamist warlordism presents the prospect of localized power centers dominated by military leaders with clerical claims who preside over Shari'a courts in the name of sub-clan identification. ------- Lastly, As I said, evaluate factions on their own merit. Your reference to massacres done by AMISOM or Ethiopia is irrelevant to me, since I'm known for my equal opposition to the foreign-created regime and Ethiopian massacre of Somali civilians. EVIL = EVIL, it would be hypocritical to condemn one evil and condone the other evil. The ONLF topic is still open, and I brought forward an interesting and strong argument that hopefully forces those who support the liberation organization to be more consistent in their admirable struggle to liberate Somali lands from more than a half century Ethiopian occupation. We can discuss that issue (the name of the region) in that topic. Somalia is one and the Somali’s fighting for xaq are one. ...interesting how ONLF and ''wadaado'' (Alshabab in Somalia, and other Islamist party iN Ethiopia) clashed many times despite the fact that they are both fighting for ''xaq'' and against the same enemy: Ethiopia. ...more interesting how Xisbi Islam and Alshabab clashed in Kismaanyo despite fighting against the same enemy and fighting supposedly for ''xaq''. Lets not close our eyes from the facts on the ground and lets not shy away from critical evaluation of our situation..especially after the spontaneous mass support the ''wadaado'' received in 2006 turned sour (warlordism v2.0). Lets not repeat the same mistakes, and be more critical of factions and their supposed agenda.

Those with foresight could have seen the writings on the wall as early as feb.2006 when the Islamic courts fought the warlords in Mogadishu. What happened was not the complete defeat of warlordism in Somalia, but a complete transformation of the warlordism as we knew it pre-2006. I opposed the Islamic courts (superficial)agenda as early as feb 2006, and understood how their victory would not only lead to unimagined suffering for those who already have suffered under the anarchy and warlordism but would also start a long period of Islamist-warlordism in which the courts would fracture along clan-lines and interpretation of our religion. Many people would try to persuade me by arguing that the Courts were the ''best alternative'' compared to the then existing factions. And to this day, I always replied with: ''Judge factions on their own merit and political agenda, not by comparision to more evil entities''. You can oppose evil by its own potential or actual destructive tendencies, without comparison to other evils which forces people to chose for the ''lesser evil'' (a fallacy). ------------------------------------------------- end-2009: 3 years after Islamic Courts victory in Mogadishu/Somalia Welcome to the age of Clan-Based Islamist-Warlordism...and today's supporters of the current warlord entities are no different than yesterday's supporters of the previous warlords. Todays supporters of the ''Islamic government'' (TFG-part 2) are no different than the previous supporters of the previous foreign-created regime's. If only people preserved their consistency.. http://allafrica.com/stories/200910270939.html

“if you disagree about anything, refer it back to Allah and his messenger if you believe in Allah and the last day. This is best and most suitable for a final determination.”[surah al-Nisa: 59]. How should we understand the above verse? Doesn’t the above verse command those who believe in Allah (swt) and the last day to resort to the Quran (word of Allah) and the Sunnah (the doings and sayings of our prophet pbuh) if they disagree about anything? Now, who is most knowledgeable in the understanding of those two important sources (Quran and Sunnah)? Lets say, in the case of two brothers who disagree on something and both believe they are doing the right thing and that they are not contradicting the rulings of the two sources. Lets further assume, that there are 10 other persons in which some chose sides and others stay neutral. Of these 10, 5 are known to be very knowledgeable in the understanding and memorization by heart the rulings in the two important sources. How should we solve this issue? Should the 10 persons all chose sides or stay neutral or mediate between the two disputing brothers? One would logically say: mediation. The next question is, mediation by whom? By the 5 who are recognized and respected as knowledgeable in the two important sources? Or the 5 lay men? The two brothers have two choices: - Agree with the mediation by those knowledgable in the two important sources as is commanded by the two sources (Quran-Sunnah) - Disagree Whoever disagrees must also disagree with the verse, since the verse clearly asserts: “if you disagree about anything, refer it back to Allah and his messenger if you believe in Allah and the last day. This is best and most suitable for a final determination.”[surah al-Nisa: 59].

Che-Guevara, According to Alshabab things are black and white. They sinned (systematically) thus they are on the black side of the equation along with the other warlords and foreign-created regime. I'm just reasoning through their black-white lens.

Most of us (save for those that are naive or blinded by clannism) can agree on the fact that corruption during the infamous ''Landcruiser'' era was greater than during 1960-1969. On top of that massive corruption and nepotism, we had a state apparatus that was hijacked by a bloodthirsty dictator who's regime even enlisted foreign mercenaries to massacre Somali civilians. The massacres that were carried out by the oppressive dictatorial regime are noted, and there is no doubt about the dark legacy the man in the ruling seat and his regime left behind.

Originally posted by Che -Guevara: ^Politic realities in given organization dictates diversion from the norm anytime a situation presents itself that can't defeated within the context of prescribed laws-in this case, wether Islam forbids or justify this killing doesn't matter as long as he's seen as an obstacle to greater purpose. Now, how they judge the situation is what makes them strong or vulnerable. Alshabab wants to approach matters along black-white lines. We approach their behaviour on the same way. They commit an action that goes against what is written in our holy Quran and Sunnah, they have sinned. They commit such sinfull actions in a systematic manner, they are hypocrites and thus will go to hotter hell than kuffar Thats the risk when a political faction uses religion as a vehicle to push ahead their campaign for political struggle: they run into contradictions.

The argument can be summarized as: - Internationally recognized name, which is shown on world maps. - It confuses people and the world, if we change the name as the struggle continues. - We will change it when the region has been liberated. ----------------------------------------------- Few questions which we need to ask ourselves: - Wasn't the name for the region coined during the European imperialism in the Horn (by their discovers/geographers)? -Isn't the the region that is inhabited by Somalis under occupation by Ethiopia and as such recognized by the International community? If the Admiral wants to use the ''Internationally recognized'' argument he can as well stretch his argument further and argue that the region is part of Ethiopia since it is Internationally recognized as such and shown on world maps. And that fighting this ''internationally recognized'' situation only causes confusion to the people and the world. The Admiral and ONLF supporters should come with better explanation for their insistence on the use of a tribal name for a region that is inhabited by various Somali groups.

[Asharq Al-Awsat] The name ****** continues to cause controversy in the region because it is the name of the tribe to which it belongs. Why do you insist on this name? Does this mean a firm adherence to your tribe, ******? [Osman] This is the internationally recognized name, which is shown on world maps. The Front sees no use in creating a new name for the region and then introducing it to the world anew. The former Somali government called the region Western Somalia, but few people in the region know this name, and it has not been introduced on the world map. The former Ethiopian government of Mengistu Haile Mariam gave the region another name, and so did the current government, which is led by Meles Zenawi (the fifth province of Ethiopia). No one knows all of this. Nevertheless, we might hold consultations to change the name when the region has been liberated. If we change the name ****** Before this happens, we will only confuse the people and the world. http://www.hiiraan.com/news2/2009/Oct/onlf_leader_claims_******_are_arab_people_under_ethiopian_occu pation.aspx

Once a ciyaal-suuq, always a ciyaal suuq!

Great accomplishment by Mr.Aden. Here are pics of the town and Mr.Aden:

Religious warlords are bringing back the same perpetual warfare and disunity the previous warlords were known for. How are the current warlords different from the previous ones? These powerhungry thugs are fighting amids civilians, within the city. For what? Certainly not against ''Gaalo'' Certainly not a Jihad, it is simply because of Political power. The hypocricy of the religious warlords is exposed.

Qasaaraha dagaalkii xoogaga islaamiyiinta ku dhexmarayay magaalada Kismaayo oo sii kordhaya iyo dagaalka oo wali socda. Shabelle: KISMAAYO ku dhawaad 10 ruux ayaa ku geeriyooday in ka badan 50 kalana waa ay ku dhaawacmeen Dagaalka u dhaxeeya ciidamada xarakada Mujaahidiinta Al Shabaab iyo Xisbul Islaam oo ka socda Kismaayo. Dagaalada ka socda Magaalada Kismaayo ayaa waxaa ay yihiin kuwa aad u culus islamarkaana labada dhinac ay isku weydaarsanayaan hubka nuucyadiisa kala duwan,waxaana dagaaladu ay saameeyeey dhamaan isku socodka dadka iyo ganacsigii ka jiray Magaalada Kismaayo ee xarunta gobolka J/hoose. Xaafadaha Isku raranka ee Magaalada Kismaayo ayaa si xun waxa looga maqlayaa dhawaqa jugta culus ee ay is weydaarsanayaan ciidamada Xarakada Mujaahidiinta Al Shabaab iyo kuwa Ururka Xisbul Islaam. Dagaalada oo rasaas kulul la isku weydaarsanayo ayaa inta la hubo waxaa ku nafwaayay ilaa 8 ruux oo labo ka mid ah ay yihiin dad rayid ah halka 6-kalana ay yihiin dhinacyada maanta ku dagaalamaya magaalada Kismaayo ee xarunta gobolka J/hoose. Saraakiisha Caafimaadka ee Isbitaalka Magaalada Kismaayo oo aan la xariirnay ayaa waxaa ay inoo sheegeen in Isbitaalka la geeyay ilaa 50-ruux oo 15 ka mid ah ay yihiin dad rayid ah halka inta kalana ay ahayeen dhinacyada dagaalamayay. Dagaalka ayaa saakay waxaa uu bilowday saacadu markii ay aheeyd 6:40 daqiiqo waxaana uu ka bilowday Xaafadda Calanley isagoo markii dambana ku sii fiday xaafadaha kale ee magaalada Kismaayo,waxaana saakay la arkayay dhinacyada dagaalamaya oo saaran dabaqyada dhaadheer ee magaalada kuwaasi oo halkaasi rasaasta si daran uga ridaya. Afhayeenka Golaha Shuurada ururka Xisbul Islaam oo saakay la soo xariiray Idaacada Shabelle ayaa waxa uu sheegay in Ciidamada Xarakada Mujaahidiinta Al Shabaab ay saakay weerar safmareen ah ku soo qaadeen fariisimaha ay ku lahaayeen magaalada Kismaayo ee Xarunta gobolka J/hoose waxaana uu intaasi ku daray in dagaaladu ay ku fidi karaan meelaha kale ee ay isla wada joogaan. Xaaladda guud ee Magaalada Kismaayo ayaa saakay aad u kacsan waxaana wararku ay sheegayaan in xaafadaha qaar dadku aysan awoodin in ay isaga barakacaan maadaama dagaalku dushooda uu aad uga socdo. Dagaaladaani ayaa imaanaya xili mudooyinkii ugu dambeeyay warbaahinta la isku dhaafsanayay hadalo kala duwan kuwaasi oo ka kala imaanayay dhinacyada saakay ku dagaalamay magaalada Kismaayo ee xarunta gobolak J/hoose. Wixii Warar ah ee ku soo kordhaa kala Soco Shabelle.net hadii uu Ilaah Inoo Saamaxo.

Dagaalkii saaka ka bilowday Magaalada Kismaayo oo weli socda iyo khasaare hordhac ah oo la soo sheegayo in uu dagaalka geystay Khamiis, October 01, 2009(HOL): Sida uu ku waramayo Wariyaha HOL ee magaalada Kismaayo waxaa weli xaafado ka tirsan Magaaladaas ka socda dagaal xooggan oo u dhaxeeya xoogag kala taabacsan Xisbul Islaam iyo Xarakada Shabaabul Mujaahidiin. Dagaalka ayaa waxay labada dhinac isugu adeegsanayaan madaafiic culus, kuwaasi oo qaarkood ay geysteen khasaare dhimasho iyo dhaawac isugu jira. Inta la xaqiijiyay oo weliba hordhac ah ilaa iyo haatan waxaa uu dagaalkan geystay dhimashada 10 ruux iyo dhaawac 40 ruux ka badan, kuwaasi oo u badan dad rayid ah. Xaafadaha ay khasaarooyinka ka dhaceen ayaa waxaa ka mid ah Via Af-Madow iyo Far-janno oo ay ku hoobteen madaafiic ay dhinacyada dagaallamaya isu adeegsadeen. Waxaan la ogeyn khasaaraha rasmiga ah ee dagaalka ka soo gaaray dhinacyada dagaallamaya iyo weliba cidda dagaalka ku gacan sarreysa. Dagaalka oo saaka aroortii bilowday ayaa wuxuu socdaa hadda oo maalin gelinkeed la sii dhaafayo, wuxuuna yahay dagaalkii ugu cuslaa oo ka dhaca magaalada Kismaayo iyo tan iyo markii ay burburtay Dowladdii hore ee Soomaaliya. Wixii ku soo kordha dagaalka ka socda Magaalada Kismaayo kala soco halkan haddii Alle idmo Salaad Iidow Xasan (Xiis), Hiiraan Online sxiis@hiiraan.com Muqdisho, Soomaaliya

^^Religious warlords sxb...warlords are never good but always wrong!

Hisbul Islam Threatens All Out War Against al-Shabaab Hiiraan Online Wednesday, September 30, 2009 MOGADISHU (HOL) - In a press conference via telephone, the spokesman for the Consultative Committee of Hisbul Islam Sheik Ismail Haji Adow told reporters in Mogadishu that if a war breaks between Hisbul Islam and al-Shabaab forces in Kismayo, the war would not be limited to the city of Kismaayo but instead would affect all the regions the two groups control jointly. Sheik Ismail said that recent reports from Kismayo (al-Shabaab) said that Hisbul Islam choose between joining the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) or al-Shabaab or disarm and become civilians. The spokesman added that if their forces are attacked, they will defend themselves but that their forces are not interested in attacking al-Shabaab forces. The comments from the spokesman for Hisbul Islam follow this morning’s announcement by a spokesman from the administration that controls the city of Kismayo Sheik Hasan Ya’qub Ali who said that al-Shabaab forces will attack Hisbul Islam forces in Kismayo. Lately there has been disagreement that increasingly has become heated between Hisbul Islam and al-Shabaab over the future of the strategic port city of Kismaayo. HOL is closely following the situation and will post any update as soon as possible.