After 18 years of writing papers the facts on the ground are the same: Hargeisa is not different then Garowe, Kismanyo, Baidoba, Mogadishu. It is just ruled by an admin which pursues its own political agenda imposed upon society. First take care of the basic needs of the inhabitants of Hargeisa then when you can stand on your two feet without the help of NGO's then you can think about fundamental issues like becoming an independent nation-state (which itself is impossible).

Abu, Foreign = Foreign Also, foreign Jihadi who blow themselves up in heavy population centre cause the same bloodshed and terror as the bombardements of foreign soldiers of AMISOM. Foreign terrorists who plant roadside bombs, blow themselves up,and launch mortar attacks from population centre's are as bad as AMISOM troops. These power-hungry factions do not care for Somalia and its people, why else would they bring in foreign soldiers to Somali soil?

We all know how the foreign-created government sneaked in AMISOM troops in Mogadishu city, now other reports are indicating that Alshabab sneaked in foreign troops too: -------------------- Residents in the al Shabaab-controlled towns of Kismayu and Baidoa say foreign fighters -- east Africans, Arabs and Asians -- have arrived in recent weeks and now sport the popular green suit and black mask of al Shabaab. http://www.reuters.c om/article/homepageC risis/idUSLP972817._ CH_.2400 -------------------- -------------------- --------- It is truelly unfortunate that political pretenders bring in foreign troops to Somalia to aid them in their struggle for political power.

Twisted_Logic, I think they are manipulating past events in the civil war for political ends. Like Somaliland has manipulated the bombing of Hargeisa and Jaziira killings for political ends (secession). You should not pay much attention to such silly tactics. The past is the past, lets move ahead.

Thierry, Time is besides Allah the best Judge. As for the extremist groups, they can be defeated without AMISOM. The foreign-created government can succeed with the people on their side not foreign actors.

Xiin and co, Its widely known: Aweys and his Al Itixiad side fought Aideeds USC forces at the battle of Araare. Why are people denying him that?

Originally posted by Paragon: ^Indeed, indeed Duke. What opportunities and trade! I think it's best advisable to shift that business to Xamar because the Kenyans might soon turn on Somalis - due to economic disparity. There are many pressing and practical issues like these that having a government would address. But many of those who don't want peace in Xamar (who have also heavily invested capital in Nairobi and other foreign cities) think their capital is safe, and thus they can create more money out of the misery of Xamar. They think their money is safe but they are gravely wrong. Temperature is approaching a boiling point in Nairobi - and the under-current that fuels this temprature is rising by degrees all the while. Today and this government is the only shot Xamar has at peace but if that shot is missed...then... (I don't have to state the obvious). I am sure there are many folks who have sincerely bought the cry (of Orgiga ka weyn) as real and valid, but they must desist from aiding and abetting those who want war on the populace. The good people of Xamar must swallow the bitter pill of truth, that to have order they must be willing to be taught and guided on how to run an Admin that keeps the peace effectively. It's really that basic. The most distorting views I have ever read. 1) Mogadishu city before the Ethiopian occupation had a vibrant economy amids anarchy and lack of government, that alone was the envy of neighbouring countries. 2) Mogadishu businessmen started to relocate their capital to Nairobi, Dubai and Jabuti when the Ethiopians rolled in and started to set up their brutal occupation. The same occupation Duke and co were supporting. 3) Everytime a foreign-created government came, people would say: ''this is the last chance, if it fails people will all die out''. Yet Mogadishu has shown to prosper without a government and only when a foreign-created government was inplanted in Somalia did Mogadishu suffer under continues conflict. 4)The supporters of yesterday Ethiopian occupation and puppet regime want to shedd crocodile tears and safe ''the poor women, kids and not to forget the economy of the city'', they helped to displace and distrubt in the last Ethiopian occupation. Sheer hypocricy.

Thierry, Foreign-created government with different faces but the same modus operandi is not what is in the best interest of Somalia in general, and Mogadishu in particular. More foreign troops not only aides the retorics of the religious warlords but turns Mogadishu city into a battleground in which again its people will suffer and civil society and the economy will be torn apart. Perhaps that is what foreign actors want? To keep Mogadishu city as a war-zone so that the civil society wont be allowed to do their job and the dynamic economy of the city will be distrubted? That would not be far-fetched considering the fact that Mogadishu city produced a vibrant civil society and economy that slowly but steadily became independent from political pretenders and became the envy of neighbouring countries.

^^ The same old rethorics are recylced by the same group of persons. Remember: A foreign-created government with your uncle in the ruling seat and 20.000 Ethiopian soldiers could not realize your fantasy, dont fantasize again with this foreign-created goverment.

The people of Mogadishu. Thus stop the fake cries all you are doing is keeping this population in bondage. LOL, so Mogadishu people are keeping themselves in bondage? LOOL

Kashafa, Thanks for your dramatized story of the battle of Araare. Aweys can be accused of alot, but never of been a clannist or put in the same category as Gen.Aideed or be associated with USC.

^^ I have no time for a tit-for-tat game. Aweys and Indha Adde are not Gen.Aideed cohorts as much as you or Goodir want us to believe. Now, participate in the topic and bring forward something relevant or go find a psychotherapist for your mental problems.

Abdinasir Kadawo, Goodir and I are not on the same page. He called Aweys a ''cohort of Gen.Aideed'' Does he even know the two men and their history? Aweys and other wadaado were the ones who fought Aideed's USC forces at the battle of Araare, when Gen.Aideed was ready to roll into Kismaanyo and L.Jubba. It is truelly amazing how someone can lump Aideed and Aweys together. The only thing they have in come is that both happen to be from the same subclan, and Goodir apparently suffers from the disease of clannism. Now tell me again, are Goodir and me on the same level?

Layzie, What wounds? Again, this topic is about Aweys and Indha adde, and religious warlords in general. Why on earth would someone involve Gen.Aideed, USC, 1991 in this topic? Please, get help because this is not healthy.

Goodir, Thanks for your input. I forward you to a psychotherapist to help you deal with your war trauma.

Nothing new, Just religious warlords accusing each other. Reminds me of the infamous warlords of Mogadishu accusing each other on the radio. Insha allah, the religious warlords will head the same way as the last warlords.

Let this be a lesson to Mogadishu society: Never put hope in political pretenders.

Dowladda Uganda oo sheegtay in ciidamo dheeri ah ay u soo dirtay Soomaaliya. Dowladda wadanka Uganda ayaa maanta sheegtay in ciidamo ay u soo dirtay Soomaaliya kuwaasi oo ka dhigaya ciidamada Muqdisho ka jooga wadankaasi 2-kun oo askari sida uu sheegay taliye sare oo ka tirsan ciidamada wadanka Uganda. Aronda Nyakairima oo ah madaxa ciidamada wadanka Uganda ayaa warfidiyeenada maanta u sheegay in dowladda wadanka Uganda ay hal batelyan oo ciidamo dheeri ah ay u soo dirtay Soomaaliya Axadii si loo xoojiyo ciidamada AMISOM ee ku sugan Magaalada Muqdisho kuwaasi oo uu ku sheegay sargaalku in ay gaarayaan 1700-askari oo horay ugu sugnaa Gudaha Magaalada Muqdisho.

The sheer hypocricy of warlord Aweys! For many years he said nothing negative about warlord Indha Adde, now suddenly he realized that Indha Adde is bad? This is what I call opportunism, and as I said many times before these socalled ''wadaado'' are nothing but reincarnation of ''Qanyare, M.Dheere, Muse Suudi''. The only difference this time: Mogadishu society is united and independent of these reincarnated warlords.

" Indha Cadde waa nin aan diinta baran waxuuna sameeyaa waxyaabo badan oo shaki ku leh Islaam waagii Alshabaabka iyo Maxkamadaha is qabteen, qeyb weyn ayuuna ku lahaa khilaaf markaasi hareeyay Maxkamadaha, qoladii qab-qablayaasha ahaa ee dalka qarribayna qayb ayuu ka ahaa, kuwa aan hadda la joogo isaga ayaa nagu soo xiray, inaga guddiga fulinta ayuu noogu jiraa, waana nasiib darro haddii maalin kasta uu duminayo waxa uu dhiso"ayuu mar kale ku celiyay Sheekh Xasan Dahir oo heyb wadaag ay yihiin Indha Cadde, isagoona intaa ku daray inuu garan la' yahay ujeeddada arrintaasi ka leeyahay. http://www.mareeg.co m/fidsan.php?sid=111 28&tirsan=2 -------------------- ---------------

Originally posted by Geel_jire: ^ very true sxb. the city is unrecognizable to anyone who has last seen it before the war. it may have been mixed in the past .. but it is not like that today. This is the most funniest comment! Whole of Somalia is ''unrecognizable to anyone who has last seen it before the war'' yet you pretend like Mogadishu city is the only place that has changed dramatically. Anyways, lets not steer the discussion to the usual prejudices against Mogadishu for what happened in 1991. ---- So far, none has adressed the issue at hand: Mogadishu society is united and energetic as ever before. It is moving away from the different factions fighting for political power and moving towards supporting the emergence of peace and stability. The civil society institutions have shown their face today, dont be surprised if they show their teeth tomorrow.

Che, There is no institutionalized clan entity in Mogadishu thank god. And ever since the days of civil war (1990s) neighbourhoods have become mixed, warlords who artificially kept alive clannisn by dividing the city along clan segments have perished, and the Ethiopian occupation and its brutality has united the people of Mogadishu. Peace and stability is not the end goal, but a subgoal. Mogadishu city should develop representative insitutions in which civil society takes the centre stage.

^^ God forbid for Mogadishu society to develop into a backward and contradictory clan entity like Somaliland or Puntland. The day Mogadishu society moves in that direction is the day I lose all hope in ever seeing a strong and united Somalia.

Geelle, As I said earlier, if this foreign-created government wants to succeed where those before it has failed it needs to lisen to the demands of Mogadishu society and advance its interest to win over the people. If they fail in that, they will follow those before them in been just a failed experiment and its members will be thrown in the dustpin of history as failures (i.e Ali Mahdi, Aideed, Abdiqassim, A.Y). ---- As for Axmed Diiriye, go read my previous definition of Mogadishu society and answer your own question.

Sxb, You said ''Somaliland'' is as real as India. I cannot find it on the map, now what did I paint or spin? You want to talk about reality, well deal with it because your imagined reality is far removed from the actual reality.