Abdinasir Kadawo, Galmudug too is a clanist-entity. I have praised them for the wise decision to de-link themselves from Mogadishu and Banadir politics and focus on the internal development of their regions. Internal development of your regions=good as long as you dont behave in a way that leads to silly notions of ''Puntlander'', ''Somalilander'' which directly go against the core concept of been a Somali. You are a Somali citizen, not a ''Puntlander'' or a ''Somalilander''.

^^ Puntland a clan entity will be dismantled the day the Clannist is defeated in Somali society.

Originally posted by General Duke: Meiji: If wadaads topple the Puntland government, are they not also Puntlanders. The problem for you is the person will still be a Puntlander and thus defend its interest as the current one does.. So what is there to fear? I welcome the wadaads adeer like President Froole did. What is this ''Puntlander'' you talk about? A Wadaad (pure one) will dismantle the clan entity and call himself just ''Somali'', not ''Puntlander''. PS: As times go by ''Puntland'' is going the direction of ''Somaliland''. The same tactics, retorics and behaviour.

Duke, Dont get nervous. Kulaha ''the religious leaders our Imaam, Shiekhs and Ulema are behind the state, there was even a successful meeting held only a few days ago'' Are we scared a home-grown Wadaado movement will topple the wadaad-exporting group that calls itself ''PIS'' and take over the whole ''Puntland'' entity LOL

Originally posted by Abu_Diaby- Al Zeylaci: Ha, Inspector; Perhaps Puntland, the holy land of Somalia, should set up a fence to prevent illegal aliens from swamping her borders? Or perhaps PL should make all aliens sign up and register themselves every morning. Ah, these aliens, taking all the jobs of the puntlanders. Their income support and khat allowance should be cut off. It is high time for the creation of PNP( Puntland Natioanlist Party) which shall run on the slogan of " puntland for puntlanders". Seriously........... ........

"Puntland security is the responsibility of security forces paid by the Puntland government. There are other security agencies, who are paid from elsewhere," President Farole added ambiguously. The PIS has secretive ties to Western intelligence agencies, especially the American CIA, with widespread reports indicating that PIS soldiers are paid, trained and equipped by the CIA. The Northeastern version of the wadaado-hunting-mili tia's of Mogadishu? These fancy terms ''PIS'' is just a cover name for a group that is engaged in the same illegal but lucrative business the warlords of Mogadishu engaged in: ''wadaad-exporting'' . The Somali people should not tolerate such illegal activity. Every SOMALI PERSON whether a wadaad or not has the right to be in his own country freely without worrying about CIA-agents hunting them down!

Finally, in Islam, our loyalties aren't based on nationality or language or color. As long as you are Muslim, no matter if you are the whitest person from Denmark, or the blackest person from Sudan, i have to support you and love you and come to your aid. We shouldn't be mad at those brave men who have come to the aid of Somalia. Quote Axmed Gurey How come the Saudi's disagree with you and your ''no distinction between muslims and brotherly love between fellow muslims''? Ironically Bin Laden and many other wealthy Saudi Arabs want to finance and encourage poor Somali souls like you to wreck havoc in your country in pursuit of believes which those Arabs wont even sweat to institute in their countries?

Meydka In ka badan 10-qof oo Soomaali ah oo qaarkood 9-bil ka hor geeriyooday oo Dowlada Sacudiga ay diiday in la Aaso. Meyadka dad Soomaali ah oo tiradooda ay ka badan tahay 10-qof oo qaarkood 9-bilood ka hor geeriyooday ayaa ku xayiran dalka Sacuudiga xili dowalada Sacuudiga ay diiday in la aaso meydkaasi. Meydadkan oo tiradoodu gaareyso kudhawaad 12-qof oo siyaabo kala duwan ugu geeriyooday magaalooyin ka mid ah wadanka sucuudiga sida Jidah iyo Daa’ifa ayaa lasheegay in dowlada Sucuudigu ay diiday in la aaso iyo in dalkoodii dib loogu soo qaado. Dadkan ayaa lasheegay in dhamaantood ay ahaayeen Soomaalida sharci darada ku joogay dalka Sucuudiga,waxaana qaaarkood meydkoodu ay sanduuqyo ku jiraan 9-bilood iyo in kasiibadan Ibraahim Yuusuf Maxamuud oo Aabe u ah gabar kamid ah meydadkaasi ayaa idaacada shabelle usheegay in 3-dii bishii aynu soo dhaafnay gabadhiisu ay geeriyootay islamarkaana ilaa haatan loo diiday in lagusoo wareejiyo meydkeeda si ay u Aastaan Shiikh Max’uud Ow Cabdulle Cariif oo kamid ah culimaa’udiinka Soomaaliyed kuwooda ugu waaweyn ayaa ku tilmaamay arintaasi mid ka baxsan Diinta islaamka isla mar ahaantaana uusan astaahilin qof muslim ah oo geeriyooday in aan la aasin oo la iska hayo. Dowlada Sacuudiga ayaa waxa ay ka mid tahay dowladaha ugu waaweyn ee muslimiinta iyadoo inta badana dadka Soomaalida ee wadankeeda taga ay kala kulmaan dhibaatooyin kuwan lamid ah iyo xabsi aan mararka qaar waqti laheyn iyagoo ku andacoonaya in dadkaasi ay sharci daro dalkooda ku joogaan. Meydadkan oo tiradoodu gaareyso kudhawaad 12-qof oo siyaabo kala duwan ugu geeriyooday magaalooyin ka mid ah wadanka sucuudiga sida Jidah iyo Daa’ifa ayaa lasheegay in dowlada Sucuudigu ay diiday in la aaso iyo in dalkoodii dib loogu soo qaado. -------------------- --------------

Juje, One last question for the record: Did the Somali people ask for foreign troops to save them and protect them from whoever and as such uttered: '' waa inay na caawiyaan ilaa aan isaga filnaaneyno'' or DID the foreign-created regime and its officials, with no trust in or support from society since they know the regime is created by foreign powers and as such parachuted to Somalia, ask for foreign troops to save them and protect them from whoever? -------------------- -------------------- ------- Somali society has against all odds survived during the past 18 years of anarchy, the Somali state may have collapsed but the Somali nation and its society are still standing despite the destructive wars between the different factions. Never have Somali people said: ''waa inay na caawiyaan ilaa aan isaga filnaaneyno'' And the only ones that utter such humiliating words are those who for their very existence depend on foreign powers and as such ARE UNNATURAL AND OUGHT NOT TO EXIST.

Juje, Another thing......do you actually believe Sh Shariif and his cohorts have any will of their own? They are pawns, the plan for AMISOM troops was hatched as early as 2003, whether the pawn went by the name of A.Yusuf or Shariif was irrelevant to the plotters of this plan.

Juje, Those who supported him did it out of hope, which was understandable considering the brutal Ethiopian occupation and the mark it left on our collective consciousness. Sh.Shariif squandered all this hope (believers) and benefit of doubt (sceptics) he received. Hope that foreign troops would leave.SQUANDERED. -->Has not and will not happen as Sh.sharif said it himself Hope that the different factions would come together under auspices of the Culama. SQUANDERED. --->all factions gave the middle finger to the calls of the Culama Hope that Sh.Shariif and his admin would be different then those foreign-created governments before them. SQUANDERED -->he is the same as those before him, from the lavish foreign hotel visits, to the begging of 6th world countries, to the asking for foreign troops This hope was especially visible by the demands of the different groups of Mogadishu society, its students, elders, clerics, human rights organizations, woman organizations etc. Now, again why should Somali people support him?

LOL ''why shouldn't they''? So people just need to support it blindly miya? And the Somali people are exactly what you read, the Somali people. You and me, and those in Somalia. Or have we forgotten those that actually matter, the Somali people? Those these political pretenders are supposed to govern, those who suffer in the never ending conflicts between the political pretenders, those who at the end of the day are the Somali people who have to live with the agony and shame created by the political pretenders. Don't tell me they and their wish are irrelevant. Now again, what is your stance on this issue and why should the Somali people support this new group that has a new flavour added but is basically the same group before them?

Juje, What is your stance on this? What makes this foreign-created regime different then the one before it? Besides the new make-up ofcourse. And why should Somali people support it? Lastly, haven't they ('wadaado') become those they fought yesterday?

The circle is complete. First all these political pretenders (Abu Mansuur, Sh.Shariif, Aweys, Sh. Turki etc) started as wadaado who were championing for ''ku dhaqanka Shareecada Islaamka'' and as such fought against the ''warlords of Mogadishu'' and the foreign-created government TFG with on their side the foreign soldiers (Ethiopian and AMISOM). -------------------- ---- Now all these political pretenders who championed for ''ku dhaqanka Shareecada Islaamka'' have shown their true faces: - They all have discredited the Culama by not lisening to their advice on how to solve the problem and govern the nation according to Islamic Law. -They all have now their own militia and are fighting each other for political power -They all have now foreign soldiers on their side, foreign Jihadi soldiers and AMISOM troops. As such, they are no better then those they fought yesterday. Ironically they themselves have become those they fought yesterday: on one side they (Abu Mansuur, Aweys,Turki, Abubaker Imaan) became warlords with their own private militia who kept society hostage and denied it peace and stability..and on the other side they (Sh.Shariif, Janaqo,Abdulqadir Cumar) became the foreign-created government. Tragic turn of events for the Somali nation.

Shariif "Uganda iyo Brundi waxaan ka dalbanay inay na caawiyaan inta aan isaga filnaaneyo "Qorshaha aan u gudbinay Uganda iyo Brundi waa inay na caawiyaan ilaa aan isaga filnaaneyno, waad la socotiin in Ciidamada AMISOM ay ka mid ahaayeen heshiiskii lagu soo saxiixday Jabuuti, marka anaga wadamadaasi waxaan u gubinay qorshaha dowladda oo ah in ciidamo ay dhisato, dadka inaga soo horjeedana aan la heshiino"ayuu yiri Madaxweyne Shariif oo si aan leex leexad laheyn u sheegay in Ciidamada AMISOM ay sii joogayaan Soomaaliya. http://www.mareeg.co m/fidsan.php?sid=112 01&tirsan=2 See also Shabelle.net ------------- This foreign-created regime is not different then the warlord factions: All lisen to their own desires and those of foreign powers instead of those they are supposed to govern. If these different political pretenders do not care or lisen to Somali people's demands, why should the Somali people care or lisen to them?

Interesting discussion. Somalinimo exists, it only needs a political ideology to embody it.

Gabbal, I'm doing it not because of you, but because of the content. The things you have posted are very interesting when we read them now. I hope Somalis will see that 6 years ago, things were kinda the same, and 6 years later, things will be kinda the same. So dont lose your sleep over daily events, because this is about the long-term. Again, its just a coincidence that most topics were started by you.

Gen.Duke is this you? This topic smells like http://www.somaliaon line.com/ubb/ultimat ebb.php?/topic/9/177 35/3#000039

Originally posted by HornAfrique: Allahu Akbar!! Allahu Akbar!!! Allahu Akbar!!!! I was just watching CNN Headline News, when I saw that the size of government had been agreed to. I came on the net to find more info, and i came straight to this post. Alla mahadle Allahu Akbar Alhamdulilah Soomaaliyay toosoo-ay! Happiness does not describe my present feeling. You could have posted this when Jabuti ''unity'' parlaments size was ''agreed'' to. Some things never change.

Pay attention to: Musomba told IRIN that the aim of the mission had been to prepare the ground "for the future deployment of African Union military observers". The mission would help plan for the deployment of peacekeeping troops "if the conference [peace conference] approves such a step". The mission has indeed ''prepared the ground'' and 5-6 years later we see the mission on the ground: AMISOM troops in Mogadishu. Pay attention to the ''if the conference approves such a step'' which means that they created the embgathi regime as a trojan-horse for the deployment of foreign troops to Somalia. never lose the big picture...thats the only way you can defeat the enemy.

Originally posted by HornAfrique: June 3, 2003 Posted to the web June 3, 2003 Nairobi A fact-finding mission from the African Union (AU) and the regional Inter-Governmental Authority on Development (IGAD), sent to look into the security situation in the country , has arrived back in neighbouring Kenya. The 21-member mission, led by Maj-Gen Joseph Musomba of Kenya, which has been in Somalia for the last 12 days, also included observers from the EU and the Arab League, and Somali delegates, according to a statement by the organisers of the Somali peace talks in Kenya. Musomba told IRIN that the aim of the mission had been to prepare the ground "for the future deployment of African Union military observers". The mission would help plan for the deployment of peacekeeping troops "if the conference [peace conference] approves such a step". Musomba said the team had encouraged those it met "to abide by the ceasefire agreement". He said most of the Somalis his delegation had met wanted peace. "The ordinary people we met are crying for peace. It is the leaders who are letting their people down," he asserted. He said it would be a shame if the talks in Nairobi did not produce "positive results". "The Somali people we saw have so much expectation and hope for the eventual outcome of the conference." Musomba called on the international community, IGAD, the AU and the Arab League "to put pressure on the leaders to make peace and agree on an all-inclusive government", at the conference. He added that he was surprised to learn that fighting had erupted in Middle Shabelle while the mission was still in Somalia. However, he said, he would reserve comment until he had all the information about the situation. Over 20 people have been killed in the course of an outbreak of heavy fighting in the Middle Shabelle Region, south-central Somalia, according to sources in the Somali capital, Mogadishu. The fighting in the village of Raghe-Eil, 95 km northeast of Mogadishu, pits militias loyal to faction leader Muhammad Dhere against those of the Abgal sub-clan of Muhammad Muse. The clashes, which broke out on Thursday, were still continuing sporadically, a local journalist told IRIN. Ciyaartaan mar hore baa la alifay, kaartadana mar hore baa la dhigay, Somalis are just too focused on the daily steps of a game that its eventual course as already been stipulated by foreign powers.

^^^Message from march 2009 The Embgathi regime has collapsed, a mixed breed of Arta-Embgati has emerged. Somalis should break lose from this timeless dancing in circles.

SPOILER I'll save our brothers from Northwestern Somalia many sleepless nights by already presenting the news of tommorow. Thank me later.

How can we make the south stable? How can Sharif goverment tackle this problem. Foreign-created governments and foreign meddling into Somali affaires are part of the problem and thus can not become its solution. The south can only be stable when the people who suffer under the conflict between the warrying factions become aware of their dire situation and take matters into their own hands. Slowly, but steadily this process is unfolding as we speak.

Very interesting read Positive. Few remarks, In your analyses of the three elites and the conflict between them you left out socio-economic aspect and its relationship to the three elites and how it influences the conflict. For example, the Somali society is one that is pastoral. The Somali economy is one that is pastoral. This pastoral socio-economic base has created the pastoral way of life complete with its social, political and cultural institutions. This socio-economic base thus supports the traditional elite, since they like all known institutions to Somalis are the result of that base. The failure of the western-minded Somali elite goes farther then causes which primarily are of their own shortcomings. Their struggle to modernize Somalia was from the very beginning limited to the few urban centre's were the pastoral socio-economic base was weak. Even in these urban centre's (of which there were at best two,namely Mogadishu and Hargeisa) the socio-economic pastoral base and its influence on society was recognizably present as large number of the city dwellers came from the country-side in which the socio-economic pastoral base was uncontested. So from the very beginning the western-minded elite had two choices: - Either transform the socio-economic base from one that is pastoral to capitalist (modern industrialized economy) and thus supports the western-minded elite in their conflict with the other elites. or - Wait till the socio-economic pastoral base with its politico-cultural institutions swallows up the western-minded elite and its western institutions. At the end, it became clear that the western-minded elite and the western institutions it created were infiltrated by clannism, the key aspect of the socio-economic pastoral base. I will dwell on the Islamic-minded elite and their imminent failure. Also, the traditionalist side will lose since the socio-economic pastoral base itself is breaking down under immense pressures perpetuated by environmental, capitalist, and social forces. The last process (the break-down of the pastoral base) is the most important event in Somali history. -------------------- -------- About the 2 primary conditions which should be met if we want to establish a functioning and durable national government I sharply disagree with condition 2. First, condition 1 is logical and needs no further explanation. What baffled me is condition 2. In no period of human history has there been a situation where a society changed for the good because of external benevolent actor. Also, in no period of human history has there been any such benevolent external actor that has genuinely assisted a nation to stand on its own feet without ulterior motives.