Me, First of all, the foreign-created regime (TFG) is clearly a dysfunctional entity that cannot survive without those that created it. I will not debate with you on the TFG case, since I believe that we share the same view towards that foreign creature. What I disagree with is your view towards the Islamist camp (Xisbi Islam/Alahabab). They will teach us the meaning of freedom, accountability, transparency, because after them we will never want to live under either anarchy or authoritarianism. Haven't we already learned the meaning and value of freedom, accountability, transparency after the collapse of the 21-year pseudo-socialist authoritarian government? The fact that Somalis entered a period of anarchy has to do with the period in which people lost basic freedoms. We went from one extreme, i.e no basic freedoms, oppressive state structures, to another extreme: anarchy, and lack of any state structures. Somalia will be a pariah state but one that is free from the shackles of international powers. We will be a pariah state, but an independent one . Independence that we have bought with the blood of our fellow citizens. Somalia will be a pariah state that has the chance to be redeemed. What is the value of independence on nation-state level when the citizens of that nation-state are not independent themselves? For example, what value has independence or freedom for a society that you yourself have described fittingly: Unemployment levels up to 80% of the working population an authoritarian government interfering with every detail of our personal lives. Always living in fear, always expecting that knock on the door, always wondering who will snitch and tell a lie. You will say they took so much away what will they take next? We should not compare two evils and find ourselves in a position were we have to chose the lesser evil. We should denounce both evils, and present a better alternative.

Duke, Please take your A.Yusuf propaganda to the other topic. Dont ruin this interesting debate.

Silly emotions by silly people who want to sugarcoat the incompetence and utter failure of the men they support. Siyadist people use the same arguments, and tell us ''if only Abe Siyad was around we would not witness the terrible war after 1991''. Warlord-supporters in Mogadishu use the same arguments, and tell us ''if only Muse Suudi/Qanyare were around we would not live under the destructive influence of religious pretenders''. Warlord-supporters like yourself like yourself tell us ''if only A.Yusuf was around the current s.hit would not happen bla bla''. Silly arguments can never vindicate those men with a dark legacy. They failed, and belong to the dustpin of history so move on and get with the program.

What subclan exactly are you talking about? The sub sub sub clan which M.dheere and Sh.Shariif belong to or the overal clan? The overal clan is a local of Mogadishu, and have survived the dramatic changes that took place ever since 1624.

The clan you are talking about needs no one in order to survive. They have been the majority in the city ever since 1624, and have survived throughout the years. Surely, not much will change about that situation even if the religious warlords take over.

As we all knew: the conflict is about political power and who becomes the leader. Sh.Shariif who is supported by foreign actors is no different than Alshabab who is supported by foreign Jihadi actors (Alqaida and co) or Xisbi Islam who is supported by Eritrea. While Sh.Shariif supports the presence of AMISOM troops who massacre civilians by their gruesome bombardements, Alshabab supports the presence of foreign Jihadi fighters from Pakistan/Afganistan/ Middle East etc who plant road-side bombs, mines, and fire mortars from heavily populated area's. What we have are two ''Islamic'' camps who both fought together to bring down the warlords, and are now fighting for the spoils of war: political power.

Originally posted by Kashafa: ^^ And you are relishing the spectre of clannist warlords trying to defend their 'hometowns' against the rampaging Shabaab 'extremists' ? Lol. Go ahead, abti. Start making dhikri to Abdulqaadir Jaylaani to save Beled-weyne, Jowhar, and Hiraan from Xarakatul Shabaab Al-Mujahideen. Let me know if Abdulqaadir answers you. What you are witnessing, yaa Meeji, is the firig-firig'ta iyo rafashada of a goat that is just about to be slaughtered. The goat that is being slaughtered in Xamar today is the goat of Warlord qurun and Islaaxi puppets. Rafasho will not avail you. Mohamed Dheere will not avail you. Dabageed will not avail you. And Abdulqaadir Jaylaani will not avail you. Believe that. Waa maqashay aan umalaynaa that Shabaab took over Buulo-berde, right ? Kashafa, I really dont care what warlord camp wins: pseudo-clannist warlords or pseudo-islamist warlords. The pseudo-clannist warlords have every right to fight against the pseudo-islamist warlords, and in the eyes of the ordinary civilians both warlord camps are two ears of the same donkey. Somalia and Somalis would be better of without both warlord camps. Insha allah, warlord era will come to an end and we will move out of the current pseudo-Islamist warlordism.

He is the second warlord that returns to his hometown to take on the religious warlords: Dabageed returned to Beledweyne yesterday. ''Waa hogaamiyihii labaad ee ka tirsanaa hogaamiye kooxeedyadi Somalia oo dib ugu soo laabta dalka, shalay ayaa waxa magaalada B/weyne ee xarunta Gobolka Hiiraan gaaray gudoomiyihii hore ee gobolkaasi Yuusuf Axmed Hagar(Dabageed) oo isna ka mid ahaa hogaamiye kooxeedyadi hore ee Somalia.'' mareeg.com PS: Somalis should turn against all warlords of every color.

Alliance of moderates vs Alliance of extremists: ICU/Ahlu Sunna vs Alshabab/Xisbi Islam ---------- Dagaalo ka dhacay Degaano ka tirsan Gobolka Hiiraan. Posted to the Web May 13, 21:09 Hiiraan:- Ciidanka MMIS garabka DFKM oo gacan siinaya Maleeshiyaad degaanka Alliance of moderates vs Alliance of extremists: ICU/Ahlu Sunna vs Alshabab/Xisbi Islam ayaa waxaa ay dagaal la galeen xoogagga Xizbul Islaam iyo Al-shabaab ka dib markii daba gal ay ku sameeyeen ciidamo ka tirsan Al-shabaa iyo Xisbul Islaami oo marayey Degaanka Yasooman oo dhanka Bari kaga beegan Degmada Buulo barde. Dagaalkaan oo la isku gabal dhacsaday ayaan la aqoon khasaaraha ka dhashay waxaan dadku cabsi ka qabaan in degaano hor leh uu ku fido dagaalka waxaa kale oo laga cabsi qabaa in kooxo cusub ku soo biiraan dagaalka kooxaas oo inta badan hadda gacanta ku haya Gobollada dhexe. Dagaalkaan ayaa ku soo beegmay xili maalintii 6aad uu dagaal ka socdo qaybo ka mid ah magaalada Muqdisho,iyadoo koxa dagaalamaya ay doonayaan in ay kala qabsadaan goobaha iyo wadooyin muhiim ah oo ku yaal magaalada Muqdisho. A/Cawaale Halgan.net

The Sufi in alliance with Islamic courts defeat Alshabab/Xisbi Islam in Hiiraan again. in Hiiraan again. -------------------- -------------- Dagaalo u dhaxeeya ciidamada maxkamadaha iyo kuwa Ururka Al Shabaab oo xalay ka dhacay deegaano ka tirsan gobolka Hiiraan. Shabelle: BUULABURDE Dagaal culus oo u dhaxeeya ciidamada Ururka Al Shabaab iyo kuwa maxkamadaha islaamiga oo taageero ka helayo ciidamada Ahlu Sunna Waljamaaca ayaa xalay waxaa uu ka dhacay tuulo 50-km u jirta degmada Buulabarde ee gobolka Hiiraan. Tuulada Yasooman oo qiyaastii dhinaca barri 50-km kaga beegan degmada Buulabarde ee gobolka Hiiraan oo xalay fiidkii dagaal culus oo mudo sedax saac qaatay uu ku dhexmaray dhaq dhaqaaqa Al Shabaab iyo ciidamo ka tirsan maxkamadaha islaamiga oo garab ka helaya ciidamada Ahlu Sunna waljamaca ayaa saakay xaaladda tuuladaasi waxaa ay tahay mid degan,inakstoo aan si dhab ah loo ogeyn qasaaraha ka dhashay dagaalkaasi. Ilo wareedyo ku sugan halka uu dagaalkaasi ka dhacay ayaa Saakay Shabelle u sheegay in ay jiraan qasaare uu geystay dagaalkaasi kuwaasi oo aan carab baain tiri ahaan inta ay la egyihiin,wallow wararka qaar ay sheegayaan in hal qof uu ku geeriyooday halka 4-kalena ay ku dhaawacmeen kuwaasi oo isugu jira dhinacyadii dagaalamay. Wali waxaa tuulaadaasi iyo goobaha lagu dagaalamay hawada ka maqan isgaarsiintii halkaasi lagula xiriirayay madaama dhulka lagu dagaamay uu aad u fogyahay. Saraakiil ka tirsan Maxkamadaha Islaamiga oo aan xiriir la samaynay si aan wax badan ugu ogaano dagaalkii ka dhacay Tuulada Yasoman ayaa waxaa ay sheegeen in dagaalkaasi ay qeyb ka ahaayeen islamarkaana ay weerareen kolanyo gaadiid ah oo ay wateen ciidamo ka tirsan dhaq dhaqaaqa Al Shabaab oo la sheegay in safar ay ku ahaayeen deegaano kale,inkastoo aysan inoo soora galin in aan helno saraakiisha Al Shabaab kadib xariir aan la samaynay. Si kastaba ha ahaatee dagaalada u dhaxeeya xoogaga Muqaawamada ee ka socda gudaha dalka Soomaaliya ayaa u muqanaya kuwa haatan ku sii fidaya gobolada dalka maadaama ay ku koobnaayeen Caasimadda Soomaaliya ee Muqdisho. Lamo maalin ka hor ayey aheeyd markii dagaal nuucaani oo kale uu degmada Maxaas ee gobolka Hiiraan ku dhexmaray labada dhinac kaasoo geystay qasaare Nafeed.

Something tells me, what they fight for is not for narrow goals. If so, they would have run, hide, or even abandon their objective when the war didn't favor them. Red-Sea, Do you support Alshabab? If so, how can you support an entity without knowing what exactly they are fighting for? You said, ''something tells me..'' indicating the fact that you are not really sure what they are fighting for exactly.

Mogadishu society survived the impact of 30.000 Ethiopian troops and their brutality. This is just a little episode, and whoever wins this conflict not much will change: - Free Media will exist - Civil society will exist - Professional groups will exist - Student organisations will exist - Private entrepeneurship will exist Those core characteristics of Mogadishu society will outlive any political faction in Somalia.

So, you have no problem with Afgani/Paki/Arab/Afr ican jihadi fighters in Somalia who plant road-side bombs and fire mortars from heavily populated neighbourhoods? What makes you different from someone who supports AMISOM troops?

Originally posted by Che -Guevara: Deadly mix of greed, religious fanaticism, conflicting geo-political interests, and lack of local cohesive military/political party might just do in Somalia! You hit the nail on the head. Insha allah, Somalia will become free from those inviting foreign actors to our country.

Do you support Alshabab? If yes, then what is your view towards the NON-SOMALI fighters that are on the side of Alshabab? If no, then what is your general view towards the deployment of NON-SOMALI fighters by any faction?

Al Zeylaci, How come Alshabab has NON-SOMALI fighters like the other side?

Originally posted by Che -Guevara: I think it's very unlikely they will come, but gets to show the Somali conflict will get nastier as the number of stakeholders increase. Somalia can only be saved when we condemn every faction that invites foreign actors to our country. So far, all the religious pretenders have brought in NON-SOMALI fighters to assist them in their struggle for political power.

Thanks to religious pretenders Somalia will become a mix of Congo and Afganistan. On one side, the extremist religious pretenders have brought Foreign Jihadi fighters from Pakistan, Afganistan, Middle East, Chechnya etc to assist them in their struggle to gain political power. On the other side, political pretenders have enlisted Western support and now have AMISOM troops in the country to defend their position. Ironically, the leading men in both sides have proudly announced that foreign fighters are on their side and want to help them and the Somali people. And to confuse the situation further: The leading men in both camps carry the title ''Sheikh'', i.e Sheikh Aweys, Sheikh Shariif, Sheikh Abu Mansuur etc.

Originally posted by Recovering-Romantics : It seems that every time Al Shabab fights Ahlu Sunna, they end up losing. I wonder what their secret recipe is. The secret is: Alshabab can only manifest itself in places were the clan feeling is weakened and were diversity exists and the ordinary people have become tired of clan conflicts. Hence why the group had its origins in Mogadishu and could rapidly expand to territories which can be labelled as ''low-group feeling, diverse regions''. Beyond Beledweyne, there lies a Somalia which is very traditional and were the pastoral culture is very alive. Hence, why Alshabab which itself is an organisation that gets its strenght from its plurality and non-clan based ideology has difficulty in setting a foot in those traditional, clannist places. Northeastern Somalia and Northwestern Somalia will become very difficult terrain for groups such as Alshabab since the Somalis in those regions are very traditional, clan-oriented and mostly live in homogenous, clearly defined clan area's. The fact that the Somali clans in those regions are very organized and would not hesitate to invite foreign assistance will make things more complicated. Another aspect is the deep roots which Suffism has in Central Somalia and Northern Somalia.

Dukey, Alshabab/Xisbi Islam have shown their true face, lets see if people will accept them considering the fact that they are powerhungry and have zero consideration for the wish of the people. As for the topic, as I said: the days of clan agitation are coming to an end.

Somalia is over the clan stage. This is not 1991 were the clan rallied behind the presidency of one of their own and within weeks turned the tide. Let the Islamist factions humiliate themselves and show their powerhungry face to the people they were supposed to provide peace, law and stability. PS: Those websites want to agitate clans in order to change the conflict. Alshabab cannot threaten the largest Somali group, thats nonsense.

Sh.Shariif has been tricked indeed. Lets see how the war develops.

^^ Abubakar Omad Adaan is playing double game like Indha Adde. He formally gave his support to Sh.Shariif but undercover is siding with the other side.

It is truelly amazing how disunited the Islamic Courts are and how united the other side is. Why do the Court admins in Beledweyne and Jowhar not send reinforcements? Why do the people in those regions not send in reinforcements from those regions since the other side is recruiting people from the regions under their control? They need to rethink their strategy.

Moving back to history is not the way to solve current problems. Post-1991, emotional people wished for the return of the dictatorship of Barre after witnessing the terrible rule of the warlords. Post-2006, emotional people wished for the return of the warlords after witnessing the terrible consequences of the Islamist takeover: Ethiopian/Internatio nal intervention and occupation. Post-2009, emotional people are wishing for the old warlords to return because the Islamists are terribely divided and cause more bloodshed by their deployement of foreign fighters (paki/arab or African). We should move forward and devise new ways to deal with our problems. Going back to the ''lesser evil'' is not what we have fought for!