Originally posted by General Duke: , Sharif has failed it's time for a rethink. What about the son of A.Yusuf?

^^ Lets hope our SOL friend Kashafa will not become one of those young brainwashed men.

Again the two socalled ''islamic'' camps pointing fingers at each other. The extremist brought the young Somali man to Somalia and brainwashed him to the point that he became instrumental in the displacement of 200.000 people and the massacre of more than 1000 people. On the other hand, The socalled ''Islamic government'' used the dead body of this young Somali man for Propaganda purposes and denied his Somaliness (Somalinimo). Both camps should be denounced for the fate of this young Somali man.

^^ The city is as beautiful as it has always been. Its inner beauty and value is what attracts all to fight over and leads to these contenders in turning into monsters to get a piece of the gem.

Duke, As I said you are following in the footstepts of Somaliland Propagandists. Their political line of Why should the union of 1960 still exist? is intolerable like your argument of Why should Mogadishu still be the capital of the Republic . Even the arguments both SL and PL bring forward to support their political line is silly. SL: '' Somali union has failed us, and it has oppressed us, Southern Somalia is symbol of death and destruction, no more union bla bla bla'' PL: ''Somali capital has kept us hostage, it is symbol of death and destruction, no more Mogadishu bla bla bla''. The Somali Republic and its symbols can not be violated by selfish and clan-minded people who want to take advantage of the anarchy in and political paralysis of the Somali Republic.

Che, The issues those in Hargaisa and Garowe have are no different than the issues people have in Beledweyne, Kismaanyo, Baidoba, Gaalkacyo, Dhusomareeb, Luuq etc etc. They are in no special situation to demand answers to their concerns and issues. All Somalis need answers, and it is our responsibility to seek those answers.

^^ My argument is that Puntland Propagandists should stop reading too much from Somaliland Propaganda Manual. This love-hate relationship towards Mogadishu needs to stop. You can not say that you was born in Mogadishu and that it is the capital of all Somalis, yet the next day portray the city as a cruel monster that wants to keep you hostage. Make up your mind, do you want to follow the secessionist path or do you still recognize Mogadishu as your capital city and your regional admnistration as part of the Somali Republic?

Che, Explain us, what is not logical about my arguments? That Mogadishu is the capital of Somalia? That Puntland is copying the tactics of Somaliland? What exactly?

Even the arguments used by the Puntland Propagandists is a copy from Somaliland Propaganda Manual: ''Long gone are the days when a student from Puntland would travel 1,000km to attend secondary school in Mogadishu.'' Sort like argument was always used by Somaliland Propagandists who said: ''We had to travel all the way from Hargaisa to Mogadishu to get passport and official state documents'' Whats next for Puntland? ''Bosaso is closer to Addis Abebba than to Mogadishu''? Indeed a bad copy.

Puntland is essentially a bad-copy of Somaliland. This ''hate towards Mogadishu'' will not make you better nor will it help you achieve your political goals. You can not run away from Mogadishu, it is afterall your capital.

^^ Maybe you can organize a long 1 million man march lol

^^ 18 years is not that long. China was in transition from 1910 to 1949. You had the collapse of the Chinese emperor, the descent into anarchy/lawlessness, the rise and fall of warlords, the Japanese occupation and the final civil war between the nationalists and communists.

What people need to understand is that maamul goboleed means provincial administration and the current Federalism that is proposed is nothing but a clan-federalism (clan mini-states undermining a future central state) which should not be accepted as a long-term solution to our problems. The different Somali clans have every right to develop the regions which they live in and order their houses in these times of anarchy. In the transitional period it is safe to say that the different Somali clans can create provincial administrations and focus on regional institutional building. Peaceful coexistence and cooperation among and within the different Somali clans is crucial to overcome the mistrust and animosity that has reached staggering levels during the Civil War and consequent period of anarchy. It is highly unrealistic to expect that Somalis will suddenly unite and forget the period of disunity, mistrust and conflict. A transitional period is needed in which peaceful coexistence and cooperation fosters a new sense of unity and thus a new sense of belonging to a Somali nation.

American terrorist should leave Somali soiL! American Jihadi terrorist is as worse as an African mercenary soldier. We should not compromise on the issue of foreign soldiers: ALL NON-SOMALI SOLDIERS MUST LEAVE SOMALI SOIL. The religious pretenders want to be selective in their demand for foreign soldiers to leave Somali soil.

Gabbal, What do you mean with ''no alternative''? Does it mean that there is no alternative group on the ground or that Me has no alternative approach to the problems facing Somalis? One can oppose current factions by elaborating on what grounds he/she bases his/her opposition and by putting forward alternative approach to solving our problems. In the case that one fails to identify a faction on the ground with the alternative approach one has put forward, one has the right to oppose all factions and stress on how things should be in order to pave the way for change in the near future. PS: I agree with you on the fact that one should not embrace a greater evil (for the future) just because one opposes the TFG.

However the case of the Sharifites is not yet exhausted. First we need to cover that area before we can move on. Me, The TFG case is dead! Everybody knowes, what we need to do is to exhaust the case of the religious pretenders.

Originally posted by Gabbal: Me, you have already eloquently established your position against the TFG. What the gallery now wants to hear is what is the alternative? Remember the political situation in Somalia is a two street today as Xiin put forward. Either you support Al Shabaab or your support the TFG or you take the third civilian option and remain neutral. If it is the latter two, then this discussion would become pointless since Xiin would not have a bone to pick with you. If it is the earlier, then you need to say so because this is what the topic is about. p.s. If I am playing self-declared referee role, bear with me. He already elaborated on the grounds on which he opposed the foreign-created regime. That alone is enough. However, if we tested the 'necessary evil' he condones (not supports) we can come to the conclusion that they too should be opposed.

I'll reserve my post for later.

Kashafa, Stop the rapping and chearleading and just elaborate on this Kismaanyo ''Islamist model''. Dont become intellectually bankrupt and rely on silly rethorics to justify your support. Use your brains and explain us the key aspects of Alshabab's program for Somalia.

Me, Invasion is when an undesired group comes in a territory and occupies it. The Ethiopians did that to Somalia, and I was one of the first to denounce it. Within Somalia and Somali affaires we can use the phrase ''invasion'' too. When undesired political groups who are despised by the inhabitants of a Somali territory launch a full-scale invasion complete with its looting and massacre package, it is logical and morally justified to condemn them. The Somali people are further displaced and divided by the religious pretenders. They have added a religious dimension to the deep division in the Somali nation. If this is ''liberation'' and ''unification'' it is no different than the ''liberation'' and ''unification'' phrases the clan jabhado used in 1991 to justify their invasions and lootings. Mogadishu and Somalia can only be united when its inhabitants want to unite under a popularly supported political movement. For that to happen we first need to defeat the religious pretenders.

Nuune, Insha allah, the religious pretenders will fall. When is not relevant, since it is inevitable.

As we can agree there is a war going on at the time and there are intense battles. The aid agencies are not capable of delivering aid to those that need it the most due to the circumstances. The machinery and material are kept in stores, while the people are suffering. The opposition forces have procured these materials in order to help the civilians and the war effort. LOOOOL Me, With all respect, you are sounding more like Duke, seeing no evil whatsoever in the faction you support. You should at least acknowledge the crimes instead of spinning it off. Lets see your argument: Northern Mogadishu (the scene of the massive looting) was peacefull, the NGO's were doing their work and assisting the 200.000 people that were displaced. Then comes in Alshabab and invades peacefull neighbourhoods and after occupying those neighbourhoods resort to massive looting. Not to mention that another 100.000 people have been displaced by the new offensive of Alshabab. You are right, that is indeed helping out the community and using the ''machinery and material'' to help out those that are displaced by Alshabab's new offensive. We should honour them and give them the title of: ''Displacer and savior of the community''

LOOL war effort? Thats looting of property from humanitarian organizations that help the same people that were displaced by Alshababs ''war effort''. Also, What about the countless homes in Mogadishu neighbourhoods that are used as hiding ground by Alshabab? There are countless families who were forced out of their houses when masked men came at their door and demanded all persons to leave within 24 hours and that the house would become a military hide-out. A criminal act is a criminal act. Was the extortion of small businesses and the remittances of countless Somalis ment for their family members in Somalia part of the ''war effort'' of Xisbi Islam? http://www.somaliaon line.com/ubb/ultimat ebb.php?/topic/9/184 73 Dadka ka ag dhow xarunta Hey'adaas ayaa inoo sheegay in qaar ka mid ah shaqaalaha Hey'adda lagula dhaqaaqay jirdil aad u xoogan , waxaana afar ka mid ah shaqaalaha la sheegay in laga kaxeystay oo aan la ogeyn halka jaan iyo cirib la geeyay . They are not harming civilians huh? They are not only torturing people but even abducting them. We should condemn all crimes regarless of the faction that committed it.

Me, Why dont the religious pretenders adress the massive looting they have been engaged in since they took over some neighbourhoods in Mogadishu city? Stoning a 13-year old girl to death and maiming a 15-year old boy is a criminal act on itself. You should denounce the crimes of Alshabab and co otherwise it is hypocritical to say the least. Crime is a crime, whoever commits it should be denounced. TFG crime=Alshabab crime: both should be denounced and opposed.