What never stops to amaze me is how every Somali young and old will give an answer to a question they know very little of as if they are experts on that field. Some of you reclassified the initial question by reaching the analysis that neither Arabs are one race (the North African Arabs and Gulf Arabs are of different race) nor Africans are one race. From this thread I found the following quotes mind boggling; Yasmina: “Somalis are Africans – and to state otherwise is false.” Sis I find it confusing that in one line you say that Africans are not a race yet you give the above quote. Baashi; “Now you have a sizable part of the Somali population who believes their ancestory have blood ties with Arabs. We are Somalis, they insist, who have blood ties with Arabs. Yes it is weird!” Is it weird to say that some Afghans have blood ties with Arabs? Yet if you take the trouble to research the Afghan Royal family you would find out that they are direct descendents of Abdulqadir Jilani (an Iraqi). So why you categorically rule out the probability of some of the Somali tribes who claim to have descended from Arabs? We know that in Zaylac we have Masjid qiblateen which tells us early Muslims (who were Arabs) arrived in Zaylac before the qibla was changed from Quds to Mekka. Wouldn’t it be possible that some of those early Muslims might have settled there? Many of the Muslims who migrated to Ardul Habasha (Ethiopia) lead by Ja’far bin Abi-Talib, settled there and some of them took their families with them. Isn’t it possible that some of these Arabs married the natives? So why it’s weird that Some Somali tribes claim to have descended from Arabs? Rampage: “By saying we are arab, simple means we are a nation of confused half breed garacs., and i think we better than that.” I don’t know who’s the confused person here the child who’s a product of a xalaal marriage between two Muslim people (an Arab and a Somali) or the one who thinks he’s better than an Arab. If the child who’s a product of an Arab and a Somali marriage is “garac” then what would the child of a European Muslim and a Somali be? “untouchable”? Subhanallah!! Rampage: “The anarchic style of Kushites,….. found fertile lands after having crossed the wilderness of the Arabian peninsula, in the country that now is known as Yemen, and in the opposite shore of the sea, in Africa.” “So Lets be Proud of our heritage and ancestre.” I’d rather trace my roots back to a Muslim Arab then a Kushite who was created in the history books of a white orientalist. When it comes to the origins of the Somalis, I can say I have read and heard of the different THEORIES and I stress on the word theories, so I will not say I know the “TRUE” answer to were all Somalis come from. I consider myself as someone who’s learning and have benefited from this debate a lot. None of us can verify the true origins of the different clans and Somalis in general, therefore we can only present theories and speculate but not give a sure answer. An Arab is someone who speaks the Arabic language, defined by Prophet Mohammed (saw) so on this basis we are NOT Arabs, but can be descendants of Arabs. We know that Prophet Ismail is the ancestral father of the people of the Arabian Peninsula, yet he was an Israeli. So would a Saudi say today I’m an Israeli? So on the same analogy today we are Somalis, but can trace our ancestral father’s to where ever our fancy and folktale takes us to. Conclusion: I’m a Somali whose country lies in a continent called Africa, hence an African but if tomorrow the name of the continent changes to Lion then I’m a Lion. I'd like that, the most beautiful animal in the world. Peace PS: Shifta I’m not the poster nor am I doing a research on this subject, but I wish I had the time to do it.

(The Daily Telegraph: 31/12/2003) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/12/31/wscarf131.xml The Muslim veil has become a hot political issue in France - but Stella White cannot see what the fuss is about. A Catholic from Kent, she explains the joys of the complete cover-up To liberated Westerners, the hijab, or veil, is a stain on womankind. It symbolises the crushing of the female spirit and is the mark of slavery, transforming a woman into a passive lump who is only allowed out of the house to buy her husband's dinner. When faced with this piece-of-cloth-on-legs, English women will often meet the eyes peeking out of the hijab with an expression of pity and sadness. For them, the veil represents a living death. This might also be the feeling of the French authorities, who have decided to ban the hijab in schools, believing that no young girl should have to carry the burden of repression on her tender head. Yet for many, including myself, the veil is not an instrument of coercion, but a means of liberation. Personally, I have never felt so free as I do when I am wearing it. Before you presume that I am regurgitating propaganda from a culture that has brainwashed me, I should point out that I am a Catholic, not a Muslim. I am not from the mysterious East, but am a 32-year-old woman from boring Kent. Nor am I a prude: my life has included spells as an exotic dancer, kissogram and glamour model. Three of my best friends are strippers. I have had relationships with Muslim men, but none of them ever demanded I wear the hijab; in fact, they found my behaviour slightly embarrassing. There is nobody in my past that has coerced me to wear a veil. I do so simply because I love it. I relish the privacy; the barrier that the hijab creates between myself and the harsh, frenetic world, especially in London. I find a great peace behind the veil: I don't feel invaded by nosy passers-by; the traffic, noise and crowds seem less overwhelming. I can retreat into my own safe world even as I walk and, on a practical level, I feel completely secure from unwanted advances. The hijab is also a financial security system. Like most pedestrians in London, I can't afford to give money to every homeless person I see, but feel stressed and guilty when I walk past them. In my hijab, my conscience can hide. I also feel fairly safe from muggers. Thieves glance at me and probably think, "illegal immigrant; not worth the effort", presuming that my big carrier bags contain only weird, knobbly vegetables for my 16 children. In my hijab, shopping is also cheaper. A small minority of Muslim traders operate a two-tier pricing system with the "one of us" price being considerably lower than the price for Westerners. If I want a bargain, I make sure I am "hijabbed-up". The most amazing effect of wearing the veil is that you automatically seem to become a member of the Muslim community and are accorded all of the privileges and dignity of a Muslim woman. When I walk into a Muslim shop, a man will say to me, gently, "Salaam aleikum [peace be upon you]. How can I help you, madam?" On the bus, Muslim men from Africa, the Middle East or the Far East will move aside for me and say, "After you, sister." The offices, bars and clubs of London are full of English girls in short skirts and strappy sandals, many of them looking for love. Women who wear the hijab, often despised by the West, actually feel sorry for these Western women who have to harm themselves with crippling high heels, skin-choking make-up and obsessive dieting in order to find a man. My Iranian friend Mona is a successful businesswoman who goes out every day looking impeccable, with painted nails, stilettos, sharp suits and perfect make-up. "It was just so much easier when I was in Iran," she says. "You'd get up at nine, throw on your big black hooded dress and jump in the car. Now, I have to spend two or three hours getting done up every morning." Too often, the hijab is dismissed as the preserve of Muslim fundamentalists. But in the Christian tradition, St Paul ordered women to cover their heads and, until the Sixties, no woman would be seen in an English church without a hat and gloves. Many English women wore hats out in the street or headscarves tied under their chin. Hindu and Sikh women are still expected to cover their heads loosely for their honour, or izzat, and Orthodox Jewish women have traditionally worn wigs over their real hair to conceal it from men who are not their husbands. Yet, among all these cultural groups, only Muslim women seem to have been described as weak or oppressed on account of their headgear. Two of the most unlikely bedfellows are the woman who wears a hijab and the militant feminist. When women in the early Seventies began cropping their hair short, and wearing dungarees and comfortable shoes, they were rejecting the idea of suffering for fashion and were refusing to take part in the desperate ritual to attract spoilt, fussy males. Similarly, a woman in a hijab can retain her identity without being a slave to finicky Western notions of beauty. A particularly sad article appeared in a popular women's magazine last week, entitled: "How to hate your body less." I showed it to my Arab friend Malika, who shook her head and said: "In my culture, men are so grateful when they marry a woman that they see her as a gorgeous princess, whatever shape or size she is." Within the hijab, Muslim women know their power and their value. One Muslim man told me: "My wife is like a beautiful diamond. Would you leave a precious diamond to get scratched or stolen in the street? No, you would wrap it in velvet. And that is how the hijab protects my wife, who is more precious to me than any jewel." Of course, if anybody tried to remove my veil or force me to wear it, I would react violently. I am privileged to live in a country in which I can wear whatever I want to. Not all women are so lucky. Personally, I have found in the hijab a kind of guardian angel. My mother, on the other hand, claims that I wear it because I can't be bothered to brush my hair.

Never had the chance to have a dialogue with the brother....reading his posts and ur memories of him shows what a difference he made to SOL.......Nomads can we put an apeal and see how many Nomads want him back and ask Moderators to send him an email letting know that Nomads miss him and want him to be back?

Yasmin, you’ve asked very good questions. what took so long? In other words, why did people (i.e. those who looked the other way while others were persecuted) wait until the last minute to realize the regime was doing wrong? Why didn’t they act sooner? If they had, maybe we wouldn’t be where we are today… I think Mr. Oodweyne answered them very well, through the German Historians words. "First the Nazis came for the jews,...and I did not protest,... for I was not a jewish by religion,....then they came for the all communist,.... here again I did not protest, because I wasn't a communist by convinction,...then they return and came for the socialist,...again I did do anything,... because I was not a socialist by temperament either,... and then finally they came looking for me,...so I look around to see anyone to protect me or perhaps valiantly protest on my behalf,...but there was no body left standing beside me, and I was alone,...and herein,..he concluded, with a painfully sober reflection,... lies the social tragedy of the German people and the history ofthe Nazi's Germany",..

bulo afkaaga caano lagu qabay. so somalis do not need to deny their tribes,and, rather they need to learn their religion. JQ can you answer the last three qs that I posed? But I believe that the "tribe" Allah mentioned in the somali context is SOMALI, not the reer qurac, reer qansax etc that we "created". I have heard that argument before used by tribalists to legitimate their social construction that they called qabiil. I can also argue that your interpretation of tribe (Somali) is nationalistic to legitimise your social construction at the expense of other Muslims.

Both.

Baashe I agree with you 100%. Denying the fact that we belong to a clan is like denying that we belong to a family. No one chose which family, clan or nation that they are born into. Allah (sw) told us that he created us into nations and tribes, but also told us how to use this information (to get to know one another) (Al-Hujarat). We also know that the Prophet (saw) was from the qabiil called Quraish and reading the Sirah we learn how he used it POSITIVELY, to forge elegancies, to receive protection, to sign treaties etc and condemn it when it was used NEGATIVELY (when Abu-Dard called Bilaal “the son of a black woman”). Let’s say your company sent you to a city/country that’s inhabited mainly by white people. What would be your reaction at the first sight of seeing a black person? What if this black person resembles Somali? I remember at university I used to have East and West African friends and sometimes when we (the east Africans) are together we use to talk about our cultural differences with the West Africans. This is the first time that I mingled with Africans and found out our similarities with other East Africans (Kenyans, Tanzanians & Ethiopians) even though they were Christians. As a Somali they felt that I was closer to them culturally even though they shared the same religion with the West Africans. I posed the above questions because it’s a natural instinct to seek affiliation with people you share similarities with. If this affiliation is used to oppress others or at the least to believe that we are better then others is where the problem lies. So you can run from qabiil but you cannot hide from it as it’s stamped on your face. I think some of you are confusing qabilism, whish is saying right or wrong my qabiil instead of acknowledging your qabiil and contributing to the positive developments in your region and abstaining from negative and destruction. Peace PS: if I send money to my brother back home to support his family will you accuse me of being qabiilist? What if I send it to my cousin? What if I send it to my city to build a school?

Can someone plssss tell me this story is fiction and if not then most parts relating to homeland is untrue. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Athena :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Gadiid you have take on this…or as usual ducking hot topics incase u get the wrath of the female nomads. Sade well said sis…..i c that OG got quiet Sweet_gal thx 4 the info…..i could not open the site as its banned in the country I reside in. Bee it happened in East London sis about 3-4 yrs ago...the girl suffers from sever headaches now..but Alhamdullilah she scape from his evil intention

Nur, I must say this is the 2nd time I responded 2 ur posts, walaal marka hore aad baad uugu mahadsantahay qoraalkan aad u qiimaha badan...2ndly I often don't have much time 2 post so I keep my replies short & since the Q's u pose require deep thinking, contemplation then well thought out replies, I tend 2 enjoy reading valuable posts 2 learn (ur quiet students).....so just cuz we're quiet don't think u haven't reached us....May Allah reward u 4 every reminder that u posted rayaana sis i think u misunderstood Nur's reply 2 CK so pls read it again & c how his advice was pure brotherly advice.

Ala Odaygan yaa hablaha yaryar kaqabta....eeyaahe OG dee meesha u banee dhalinyada...Gadiid madoobe,Continental birqaab iyo Darman cawar. ala waxaan ilaaway Lakkad jiis.....rageedii.

Nomad sis X7 wish u all the best sis.....shame i just started reading some of ur old postings...i try 2 keep away from the politics forum when i saw that some of the nomads r not only haters, but male chauvinists who cannot express their views without resorting 2 shower insults @female nomads.

Xidig I disagree with you about this story; There was story in my City when one young somali guy went to a bar , then was approached by hot chick, they went home, her home ,and had sex, later she regret sleeping with black guy and called the police,, He was sent to prison for 15 years!. this kind of stories happen all the time, there are many evil men and women out there. The reason is this, I also know of a story of a similar story…..a Somali girl and a Somali guy were dating and were also sleeping together…….being a typical Somali guy he wanted to marry a virgin and in his case his family arranged for him to marry a girl from back home…….the girl he was dating heard of the rumours and when she confronted him about it he told her its true he also told “did you think I was going to marry you hell no” (now THIS she definitely deserved it) she asked him to get the hell of out of her life……REVENGE she thought…….she invited the guy for a goodbye meal and some icing on the cake……after they slept together she went into the other room and called the police and cried RAPE……after the initial semen test and other DNA the boy was taken into custody……she claimed she was a virgin and he raped…..the doctor who examined her said that he could not see any evidence of force entry, but rather consensual sex has taken place, so he ruled out the rape…….he also proved that she was not a virgin prior to this incident, but that she had 2 abortions…..basically her case was thrown out of the legal system……guess what happened next????? The 2 reer met up and they ordered the boy’s family to FORCE the guy to marry her and no need for compensation (xaal)……I must say I was furious on the guy’s behalf…..why should he be forced to marry her So brothers medically it can be proven when a woman shouts FAUL.

Now I'll reveal which ones are true or false White girl #1: True story...the bus driver hated himself 4 not allowing the young girl on the bus. Pakistani girl: True story….I shared this with you cuz I read so many brothers saying that the girls deserved to be raped cuz they were wearing revealing clothes & walk in the middle of the night alone…..and look at the Pakistani girl…it was in middle of the day, she was fully covered and was walking on a street that’s NOT in a dangerous area…. Somali girl: True story...just look @our mentality of rewarding the perpetrator, by sending him back to Somalia...probably earned his ticket to go & rape another girl who will be made to marry him afterwards….I knew of a Somali man I was told raped a girl in Canada and he was living in London as a free man….sad indeed White girl #2: False……I made it up…it seemed that this is the one that all MEN think is the classic rape case As 1 of the sisters said if your sister was raped will you ask her 1st what was she wearing or who did it?....I hope you never face it brothers…. Wish you all a Happy & Prosperous New Year……May Allah bring us peace & stability to our beloved homeland.

^^^ walaal you really lost me on the below quote; 'The Believer shall not be killed because of killing a Kafir.' Sahih Bukhari & Muslim Now the rule extends to such things as a Muslim stealing from a kafir (by the way this rule applies to Ahl Al Kitabies) to raping a nonmuslim etc. How does the hadith regarding the killing of a kafir relate to stealing and raping? So I can steal from non-muslim and i won't be punished?

^^^ sis don't worry its just that the Americans still follow the old imperial measurements that we gave them .....so they mean 40 degrees Fahrenheit ...were we in Britain changed to matrix measurements, :cool: like the rest of the world & u probably thinking 40 degrees Celsius (very very hot) :eek: :eek: 0 degrees Celsius = 32 degrees Fahrenheit Formula; F=(C+32) 9/5 or C= (F-32) 5/9

I loved it tnx Gadiid, but I would bold this part Ilaahow arligeennana Mid ammaan lagu joogoon Abaaroobin ka yeel Ilaahow aduunkeennana Mid ibtiisa la maaloo intifaacleh ka yeel Ilaahow Oodda dhexdeenana Soomaaloo idilkeeda Midday uurka ku hayso Mid Ilaah ka daweeyoo La Illoobo ka yeel Ilaahoow eraygaygana Mid aammiin la yidhaahdoo La ajiibo ka yeel Ilaahow udubkeenna Istiqlaalka la siiyey Afarteenna bahoodee Hareeraa kaga oodan Isu keen wada keenoo Mid adkaada ka yeel Aamiin yaa rab aamiin

Khyre I have few q’s 4 u brother; if a muslim rapes a nonmuslim, he is not to be punished. Can u give me the daliil? This sounds like Muslims who say it’s OK to steal from non-Muslims. Some of you might look at things from a certain angle and inshallah I see were you are coming from but I also see the Hikmah in what the somali elders used to do in these situations. For some1 who attempts to support his views through Islamic evidence you failed me in the above quote..….when every Prophet asked the people he was sent to guide why they worship the idols and not Allah they all responded with the same answer “we found our forefathers doing it”. Please don't knock the Somali Dhaqan just cause you got your quurba passport. You still Somali when applying for a job or in line for a loan at the bank. So in your view Somali Dhaqan is sacred like the Quran & Sunnah? I am Somali through and through, but Allah (SAW) asked me to stand 4 justice even if it’s against my own self……therefore I will not say right or wrong I’m with Somali Dhagan.

Bambina Again, some of you misunderstood me ,but I was 99% sure it was going to happen anyways , if you had really paid attention to my post, you would have noticed that I was supporting some of Irshad's points of view not ALL OF THEM ,besides since I didnt read her book , so how the hell , do I know if she's insulting Islam or not, unless I read what she wrote?I hope this makes sense to some of you. Sister lets say a paedophile wrote a book about how we should tackle the crimes in our society and specially those against women, domestic violence, rape, sexism etc....How would you respond to this character?

OG, the 70% of the rape cases you refered to "women initiated it" as you putit...inviting the man back to his home he interpreted it she wants it as you put it....what about the fact that she REALY wanted to talk....so what warrants the man to say that his interpretation of the invitation is the right one...(In this case we are talking about non-muslims...since we know its haram for a woman to be alone with a man that's not her mahram) Lets talk about girls who had no physical contact with the rapist....i.e. she neither invited him to her home nor went to his home....but lets say she was dressed like White girl no.2 can you say she asked for it? In Somalia in the old days and even in most cases today when a girls is raped the two clans (reer) meet and the girl's family receive compensation (xaal), then the matter (crime) is settled by ORDERING the guy to marry the girl, because no other man will marry her and since he's the one who took her virginity he should marry her (this is his punishment).....Did you all know this. I put the above scerios for a reason and I will reveal which ones are true and which ones are false.

I was just reading a threat that I thought stimulated an important discussion on a very important topic then it was killed by couple of nomands. I would like to start this topic and get your opinions without attacking or insulting each other. I don’t mind however extreme your views are to the other party just discuss them in mature manner. Thanks I will narrate 3 stories tell me which one is true and which one is false. They all happened in the UK. 1. White girl: A school girl passed by her friend before coming home from school. She then went on a bus to go home, but she was short of 2 pence for the fare. The bus driver asked her to get off the bus or pay the full amount, as she didn’t have the full fare she got off the bus. She then proceeded to walk home and she was 5 minutes away from home when a man jumped on her from one of the streets and dragged her in an ally way. He RAPED her and fled. 2. Somali girl: A girl was sharing a flat with her brother, who used to work till late in the night. One Late night she heard a knock on the door and when she asked who it was, the voice said I am so and so (it was her first cousin). When she opened the door she told him her brother was still at work, he told her he will wait for him in the living room. She then proceeded to go to bed, he followed her and asked her to take her dirac off, she told him are you out of your mind. He then started beating her black and blue, banging her head against the wall until the neighbours heard and started to call the police. Luckily he fled before he could RAPE her and her brother came home while the police was there, they informed the police who it was. Within the first 24 hours both families heard what happened. The guy’s family started collecting money for him and he was flown out of the country back Somalia. 3. White girl: One late night a girl was going home from a local pub where she celebrated a friend’s birthday. She was wearing a short dress, her arms and back was bare. One of the male friends in the party asked to walk her home as she didn’t live far. When they were half way home he started to put his arms around her, she shrugged them off and then did it again, but this time forcefully. She told him to get his hands off her, he then said come on you’ve been asking for it all night. He then pulled her into an ally way and started to RAPE her, after words he told her you don’t go and dance like you did earlier and lets us believe you are not asking for it. 4. Pakistani girl: One day a girl was walking on a busy famous road in the heart of London. It was about 12-1pm and she was wearing a full hijaab (niqaab included). A car pulled in front of her and a man jumped out and dragged into the car. They took her in run down flat somewhere in London. The girl was subjected to repeated RAPE for 3 days by 2 men who dropped her the third day in another area. If you know for sure the real story/ies please don’t kill it for others and just say true or false without letting us know you know. I also want to know what conclusions you will draw from these scenarios and as Somalis how do we view the subject of RAPE. Who is the victim and who is the perpetrator?

Respecting some1 who disrespects women when the going gets tough....how ironic?

Darmaan cawaroow intaan meesha kamaqnaa ayaad istidhi jac baa lagu dhajiyay inantiiyoo way carartay. Lakkadoow hadal aanan odhan maxaad iiga samaynaysaa, maana dating ba soo hadal qaaday….adiguse miyaanad odhan Pyong Yang waxaan kahelay inan 4 feet ah? Oday Gabooboow, (hadaan kaa daayo naanaystaa kabtayda wax iigu rid) bal meesha aad ku aragtay qoraalkan noo sheeg “beside i check the site, didnt you read well, it is about lady_boys, it says Niger men competing with women for beauty and expressing their feminant side...” Ilhaameey walaal haka warwarin visihii baan xareeyoo, dhawaanbaan keenayaa ingiriska. QacQac afkaaga caano lagu qabay walaal…….dadku intay is leeyihiin amaana dadkiina ayay caayayaan dadkale……..markaan arkay sawiradoodo aad baan u ladhacay dadkan quruxdooda. Walee habloow kaftanka ladinka hel……qaarkiinba is yidhi amaana raga Soomaalida bilad baad kuhelaysaanee…..waakuwaa idiin mahadnaqee, lakiin ragyahow goormaad hablaha caleemo saaraysaan. On a more serious note I love my culture and respect other ppls cultures specially Africans, hence the username.

What do u think?????

^^ he does it 4 me & he's not Nigerian he's from Niger (don't know what they call them). Shukri wlc abaord.