Liibax, Brother don’t take dialogue as a form of personal attack, spicing up posts is another matter altogether. First we must set parameters about what we are discussing; we must be clear about who we are talking about. What is this Somaliland, Which will either accept and which might not accept this new reality? Somaliland is not a person it’s a state, it hasn’t got one collective thinking, it has various contradiction just like what is referred to as “Reer Konfur”. Also we must understand what is there to be accepted, a Somali nation on the rise will not be accepted by those who don’t want it. There will be resistance to change not just from “Somaliland” but from across the country as a whole, all the fat cats all the businessmen and al those who don’t see themselves in the picture will resist. If the point is will Somaliland aka Colonel Kahin’s administration accept the outcome of the peace process, then no they will not because it is not in their interest to see a Unified Somalia. This is totally different to the people or other silent groups but Colonel Kahin earns as much as Georg Bush and I don’t think he want that to stop. If we are arguing wither or not eventually Somaliland will become part of the Jigsaw puzzle that will be the Federal republic, I believe yes in the near future Somaliland will become part of Somalia because it will have no other choice. Again it has no other choice, with no recognition and no political will other than rhetoric on the BBC; I see it as short sightedness to believe that the status quo will remain indefinitely. Somaliland has thus far failed to convince the international community that it deserves recognition. The rulers there might hold elections and fake referendums but truth will never be known as long as there is no alternative to the secessionist argument IN THE North West. I am not be idealistic but the sign are on the wall, change is coming and the world has so far more than supported the Nairobi conference, if this leads to Government with world support, forget warlords and forget Colonel Kahin. Again many thanks and don’t take these simple words as insult, now present your arguments Liibax, on how Somaliland will remain outside the process and how it will survive?

Quote "Believe me, if Xamar doesnt' become the new capital Somalia no other place will ever will." You seem so sure? with no explanation Che, You are right except for Dhusa Mareeb hell thats a great name you can imagine hearing it on CNN, Chritian Amanpour reporting from Somali's new capital Dhusa Mareb.

Ayoub Shiekh, Totaly agree with you 100% bro. The creator of the topic, you have to realise things have changed. People are changing all the time and if you dont change you will be extinct.

Hey people, Tell me if this MAP is NOT accurate, if it is not why should SOMALILAND be more important than ASAL or JUBA? Is it economy, hey we live in Africa and there is not that greater a difference, heck I doubt that in 10 years Somaliland would have as much money as JUBA

Liibax, You make no sense brother what so ever. The five state solutions is the reality on the ground. The biggest most pressing issue today is how to satisfy most people and not just the secessionist who are a minority in the country. The point is how to bring peace in the south and I mean everything south of PUNTLAND. Somaliland wants autonomy, self governance and funding without struggle and loss of life then this is the best solution for the aspirations of the North West. But if we are talking about the realms of fictitious power and harking back to the 1960 defunct two state union, then it will be division and more wasted time. Only time will tell but if the south recovers and joins Puntland in creating federalism and fairness through Somalia then I don’t think Somaliland without its dream of recognition would opt to stay out. The people of the North West have no alternative to Secession and sectarian hatred at the moment, they see nothing but anarchy in XAMAR and ae told that this is how all of Somalia is. When there is an alternative it won’t be just General Ghalib and Tuur who will speak but a lot of those the quit majority who see no recognition and no progress who hate the business monopolies and incompetence of Riyaale. However if one makes himself blind of reality then this argument will be wasted on you. Again don’t misunderstand me I think Somaliland is what it is the North Western part of a great country.

Many thanks fot the work forwarded, I wish I get more time to read it all. Yaquub I hope you get time to read.

All we the Somaliweyn camp is trying to creat is equality and peace. Check this map and be proud of your country people.

Gedid, Bro I like the Isolate Somaliland policy, but I would call it the Isolate the break up camp. How ever we are not policy makers (you &I) only on this forum do we excert influance. I do agree it would take vision and political maturity to bring such a thing to fruition. However one should not be blind to the fact that the Somali republic will not always be this bad, this divided and this fragmented. Its like saying change is impossible for the Somali race let alone good change. I hope we dont fight each other, kill each other, waste our resources little as they are on pursuing our ego. Somali people should not condem themselves to following the wrongs of a single generation. However dear Gediid, if there was a new government and they patiently strived for peace and opened channels of communication with the North West and they make sure no conflict erupts then Somali's are Somali's and this can be resolved. I want to know how would you see a givernment in the south and Puntland working for peace would you at least welcome communications and dialogue? Or are you from the Faisal Warrabe camp?

Bari Nomad, Many thanks for the map bro, I like the map. Yaquub bro, there is a lot of material on this, but I will try to give you a good summary of what I know so far which isnt that much

S-Warrior, Stay tough bro, good observations as ever. Professor Samatar is a joke, the man jumps from one thing to another. He dreams of a Utopia in witch he is king, perhaps he gets love in Mogadishu and this has made him demented. Dr Ali Khalif Galayr i think is just miseading people, he wont lose out in the new Somalia, he is a big man involved in big business and is opposed to personalities more than the idea. Abdiqasin on the other hand is a man who slept for three years and want to keep everyone awake for three days. He is losing clout with even Xasan Abshir Farax who was a good right hand man, but maybe Xasan was wasting his time, grabing money and now wants to be forgiven who knows. All i know is Abdiqasin is finished, he has no qualifications like the others to give lectures on retirement.

Who said force, When the new government is created it must priorities its aims First priority is to create a foundation for which the strength and identity of the state would build upon. Diplomatically it must seek recognition not from the AU and ARAB’s but by the world powers, the US, EU, Japan and it must seek be recognised as the sole custodian of power in the Somali republic. It must convince the world that recognition of Somali integrity and borders is sacrosanct to the government. There will be no internationalising of the Somali dispute with the northwest. The Somali state must build on the relationship it has with Kenya, as the host of the meeting of peace. It must build relations with Adis Ababa and the Tigray government there, in order to put to history the ancient dispute between Somali’s and the Abasynians/Ethiopia. If the above are achieved then we need not waste time disputing with the secessionist’s. Their wings will be clipped all NGO’S will be directly under the control of the new government. Embassies and all diplomatic channels all business with the outside world would be wthin the federal state. This hampers the movement and limits the avenues with witch the secessionist can move. Unlike today where there is no control with contact with the outside world. Political avenues would be, at all times to engage in dialogue with the existing administration in Somalialand to keep the statues quo and entice them in joining the state. To send delegations to Hargaysa to hold talks with their representatives in order to create a climate of no nonsense negotiati0ons and to show Somali people that the state is serious about unifying people without over romanticising this nonsense dispute. By strengthening the system and bringing in the whole south and Puntland under the control of the state. Revenue would increase peace would bring economic stability and the Somali identity would grow and people would get used to a functioning government, not perfect but better than today. Secessionist excuses would be limited to clanistic or BRITISH mandate, but it wouldn’t be about peace or prosperity and they would have no one to hear them cry. In vacuum no one hears you cry.

The ationale of Federalising Somalia Now The New direction The Somali conference in Eldoret/Mbgathi swayed from one direction to another, and from a unitary system of governance to a federal system. The interim charter that was recently drafted called for an interim unitary government that will work towards federalising Somalia in the long run. However, suddenly, on the fifth of July it seems that the Conference came back to the right track: "The interim government should be federal right from the start" the agreement said. This last minute decision saves a lot of valuable time for Somalia, and solves the route causes of the deep-rooted conflict of the divided clans of Somalia. Taking on board the existing self-administrations Currently in Somalia, there are three major states that claim either to be independent (Somaliland), or autonomous and are waiting for federalising the country so that they (Puntland and Southwest states) join Federal Somalia as autonomous states. Jubbaland (portion of Somalia west or River Jubba) is not formed yet, but it exists in the minds of the people who live in Gedo and Waamo. This is the desire of the people in those states, and nobody can force them to live under unitary government. Their voices must be heard and included in restructuring Somalia, and ethnic states that symbolises their self-governments. How do we get along with these existing self administrations and install a unitary government? Can we simply ignore them and think of reconciliation at the same time? In any reconciliation, the self-administrations must be put into account and then design governance structures accordingly. Designing for pluralistic and diverse society Somalia is not homogeneous as we used to claim for many years. In terms of language, people speak in general May and Maxay (Somali dialects), while there are some ethnic groups who speak dialects of Swahili such as Reer Baraawe, Reer Gosha, including the Mushunguli of the Gosha (along the river between Jilib, all the way through Jamaame to Kismayo) and the Baajuuni people. There is no need to ignore these Swahili dialects spoken within Somalia, as all these ethnic groups are Somalis. In addition to that the clan cleavages are very strong, and clan affiliation sentiments are so strong that even if we speak the same Somali language, we feel different: clan x, clan y and clan z. It is this primordial sentiment (primary cleavage in Somalia) which every Somali feels needs to be addressed and be taken aboard in our politics. The new shift to to embrace federalism right from the start is courageous step and it is timely action. Federalism means pluralism, accepting diversity, decentralisation of power and representation, and spreading economic allocation to the states. Why do we fear from federalism? Is it because the country may disintegrate eventually? The nation state of Somalia already disintegrated and it is only through federalism that we can save it. The damage to the nation state of Somalia is done and if we install a unitary system of government at the centre now, it will not even govern Mogadishu, let alone Baydhaba, Kismayo, Beledweyne or any other region. Can't we learn lessons from Arta government, and reconstitute Somali institutions differnetly? Why do we waste 3 or 4 years to repeat in something that was done in Arta, Jabouti and that failed and never worked? Federalism is inevitable The existence of self-administrations in Somalia necessiate the quick adoption of federalism for Somalia. The quicker the self administrations are taken aboard, the quicker to embark on the route to stability, peace and strengthening of governance institutions. People will have their allegiance and symbolism on their state first, and then on Somalia. The is a short or middle term solution to Somalia, and allegiance to the nation will gradually develop in time. By: Abdulkadir Abiikar e-mail: Abukaraah@aol.com Mogadishu - Somalia

Nin Yaban, Who said force, diplomatic avenues economic ones political ones the pacification of the south the strengthening of the system. Then Somaliland would come, no compromise means no compromise. We need not waste a single life a single child or a single bullet to achieve our aim of getting back our dignity.

Horn forever the idealist, How on earth would you get them to house the capital of SOMALIA when they wont even have the flag? The same problem over MOgadishu are there in Hargaysa, its the polar opposite. Stop the nonsence and nominate a real viable option, not Galkacyu, Hargaysa, Bossaso, Kismayu and Hargaysa or Burco. Its got to be in the South, a quite town if not Marka why not Barava. THINK ppl some one who knows the south any nice towns out there?

I must say that this debate has been fantastic, so far excellent to read. However it has been drawn back into the murky world of name calling and clan bashing and admin intervention. How sad that what started as a debate of language and dialect has been turned into professing ones clan ideology or exposing closet clan fascist’s. Speaking for myself I have never heard a worse clan diatribe than what comes out of the mouths of so called respected leaders in Hargaysa. To hear Faisal Warabe and Edna one wonders how such people can lead, one pities those souls being led. There is no need to hide behind the UNION or the so called fake referendum or the elections that never took place in PUNTLAND SSH. Who is the closet clanist’s those who burn the SOMALI flag, hate Mogadishu and chant “no more XAMAR” “Burn XAMAR” or those who strive for a united Somalia a federal Somalia where the men in GAROWE will make the laws for PUNTLAND and those in BADOA will make local laws for the SOWTHWESTERN state and etc ? Lets cover some old ground shall we Somaliland is divisible if Somalia is divisible. Single groupings in Hargaysa can’t determine who secede and who do not, those who support such madness are clanist. Democracy and the hope of East Africa and a great army and SNM mujahidin are all well and to some extent true. But your leaders are as criminal as others found in the south, your SNM caused pain and heart ache as the USC and SSDF, remember what happened in AWDAL. Your leaders are corrupt and grow rich while they heat up racist rhetoric about BRITISH partition and a UNION. Do you not understand that 1 July 1960 British Somaliland became null and void and what you are talking about has no legal basis? To ignore the truth, is to be A clanist to hate Mogadishu and a flag is to be A clanist to hate diversity, the MAY Somali language, the Bantu’s the Somali Arabs the South is to be A clanist. So my friends it is you who need to look in the mirror to learn about Somalia and to give up this sectarian, baseless hatred which you so passionately champion. Sophist, Brother what you have said is out of order, “In order to succeed we need to rise above our differences” Nelson Mandela

paltalk, stop it man your killing them There will be a new Somalia insha Allah and no one can stand in the way of change. No Somaliland No aBDIQASIN SALAD No Musa Sudi No clan No man No woman So I suggest comply or ?

Xalimo, I wasent threatening anything just a fact that Rudy made about Disneyland, thats all. No need to get mad at every coment made.,

I was surfing the net when I came across this poet called professor Togane. Never heard of him before but he is a Somali poet who writes his material in English. He is quite amusing; his material is the Somali clan politics and says what he wants to say for that the man deserves credit. I won’t post his poem here but here is a website dedicated to him and his weird poetry. His latest Poem is found in this link http://www.balcad.com/who_is_going.shtml He has a fan base on the website below http://www.mudulood.com/ click on this title WHO IS GOING TO MILK THE MUDLOOD COW? here some picks of the man Funny dude, A Somali Hippy

The point is not Mogadishu was or will be, it is is Mogadishu suitable today to be the capital? The answer is no. Mogadishu has a culture of violance unlike any other city in Somalia. To deny this fact is to be ****** . It is beautiful it has potential but not today, and nore for the coming 5- 10 years. It will be an economic powerhouse but to clear all the scars of the war will take time. Other cities should be considered, Hargaysa, Bossaso and Kismayu are too far out. Why not creat a new town, but hey we are poor

My candidates, Candidate for President: Samurai Worrior Candidate for Prime Minister : HornAfrique

Rudy your funny LOL Xalimo your even funnier ha, Somaliland=Disneyland both will never be UN member states.

Mr Miskin, Your picture of Mogadishu is not entirely accurate. While there is a lot of Business activity the city has random in fighting specialy in Madina. There is more kidnaping now than at any time actually kidnaping has become a trade of sorts. The city has been destroyed and it has more check points than any where I can think of. With the major port air port closed and heavily armed combatants I beleiev that Mog town today is not suitable for a Government of 350 MP's and a large cabinet to live there. Who would pay the ransom of all the kidnaped MP'S. MARKA is not controled by the Juba Alliance, it has USC millitia presence but it is not as complicated as ever. Galkacyu should never be capital as it is the Capital of Mudug and Puntlands second city, it dosent need it. Again I say MARKA and Mogadishu maybe in 10 years.

Xalimo you go girl, well what was the point. You are from somaliland you should love Somaliland. Why shouldnt some one love their tribe as Sophist pointed out. People from Gaza Love gaza I even love the bravery of Gaza. Everybody loves the Village they are from or the NATION they aspire to be from. But i see no point in you not loving Somaliland.

I agree with mot of the above posts, Mogadishu with Bossaso, Kismayu and other cities will be economic power houses but a capital dosent have to be the largest town, or the most famous it has to represent the country. Galkacyu NO it is becoming a great city and does not need the burdon of housing the new Government. It with Badoa are close to the Ethiopian border this can also be tricky. I think a new capital can be created or MARKA can be a new capital. It is a city with Good climate and mild manered population it is quite large and doesnt need to be developed. However I dont tottaly rule XAMAR out once you kick out MUSA Sudi and the other strong men. But we hope

Nice picks but they are kind of old a few years back I saw them on Somalitalk.com. Any new pictures ppl