for those of you who are concerned about the quality of the air.

Congrats NinBrown!

What are your favorite Bush quote's? mine are..... "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." (5 augustus 2004) "The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the — the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." (27 oktober 2003) "I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time thinking about myself, about why I do things." -—Aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003 "You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror."—Interview with CBS News, Washington D.C., Sept. 6, 2006

Aliens, it doesn't matter who Somalis are what matters is that we are Somali.

^I believe the Swedes more then I believe the secessionists.

Oooooooooh no! Jacaylbaro you didn't. Ps. The former British Somaliland "will have to be economically supported and subsidized by a foreign country," So is it ambassador or dawarsador?

Biixi I read this man's book

^The wada daris and wada jaar argument would be understandable, but norf is not saying that. He has two hats he like two wear, the problem is he is wearing them both at the same time and I am just telling him, wear one hat at the time. Norf, I have high expectations of you. You can do better this, or can you Jbaro: loooooooooooolz Africaown: stop the glue; you’re developing multiple personalities.

Norf, Shinin bright, but still I'm careful not to waste it Destined to rise, because I'm basement adjacent Spirit is still so just chill and be patient Some heads approach like I'm the one to base with Clowns about, screamin but don't say shit I ain't your student so I ain't to be tested I'm majestic, I represent my strength without effort Method is unorthodox, but of course it rocks My serious synopsis will drop kick, my topics You are saying that my argument is not even half decent, yet your here struggling to refute it Step up to the plate hommie. Come and argue for your case instead of trying to hide behind how messed up the TFG is.

Yes, please point out what’s wrong with the relationship between the TFG and Ethiopia. I will show you the same relationship between the secessionists and Ethiopia. So please go ahead and point them out. My comments are clear and to the point, no need to argue any further for my case. I don't think that there is any doubt about what I am saying. or where I am am heading with this. A question for you, why does Riyaale go to Addis Ababa and why do secessionist politicians say that a kid born in Addis Ababa is closer to them then a kid born in Xamar? Africaown: video confessions huh?

What do the Ethiopians use Berbera port then for? There have been enough secret transportation from Berbera port to Ethiopia. Ethiopia’s presence is Hargeysa is apparent to everyone except the blind. Even what you may consider as peaceful equipment can be used for the military occupation in Koonfurta Soomaaliya. Another thing that you’re trying to ignore in your illusive pursuit to sidetrack this discussion is the relationship between Ethiopia and the secessionist entity ever since the SNM days. The regular trips of Riyaale and other secessionist’s leaders to Addis Ababa. Even secessionist leaders claiming a kid born in Addis Ababa is closer to them then a kid born in Xamar. Marka how can you come here and try to argue with me about how wrong the TFG supporters are for having a political relationship with the Ethiopians, while the entity that you defend day in day out in this forum, has similar relationships? If you accuse Duke for supporting the TFG, what makes you right for supporting the secessionists? Maad isku xishootid oo sheeko kale noolo timaadid. You are trying to insult the intelligence of the nomad’s over here with your simplistic accusations against the TFG supporters. Go and check out that chicken and egg analogy. I am tired of all you folks chasing your own tails. Lets have a decent discussion, where we are open for dialogue or be ready for the same repetitive discussions with the same worn out (sometimes relevant) arguments.

As long as you don't get it right you keep repeating the same mistakes Norf. That’s the problem us Somalis have, we do not learn from our history. People tend to have short memories. Learn from mistakes. The Berbera stories might be tiring for you but they do not loose their relevance. You cannot criticize the TFG for its relationship with Ethiopia on one hand and then support an entity that’s cozy with Ethiopia. ps. boy?

Somalia's Last Foreign Minister Warns Somaliland on Secession Noakes, Greg. January 20 , 2008 Editorial Note: Ahmed Mohamed Adan (Qaybe), a career Somali diplomat and politician and the last Minister of Foreign Affairs of Barre's government, warns Somaliland on Secession. WardheerNews would like to share with its readers this old article from Washington Report on Middle East Affairs in May 31 1994. In that article Mr. Qaybe articulated explicit refutations to the rationale behind the secession quest of some segments of the population of the North of Somalia. Qaybe stoutly argues that there are neither legal nor moral justifications for the unilateral secession of Somaliland from the rest of the nation. WardheerNews would like to encourage and solicit reader's comments on both sides of the debate. Somalia's Last Foreign Minister Warns Somaliland on Secession In the wake of U.S. and other international troop withdrawals, Somalia faces even more problems than the absence of central government, endemic clan rivalries, civil strife and the lingering specter of food shortages. There is also the prospect of a formal breakup of Somalia into two separate nations based upon the former colonial boundaries between Italian-occupied Somalia and British Somaliland. In May 1991, leaders of the Somali National Movement, a political party dominated by the ***** clan, unilaterally declared an independent Republic of Somaliland in northwestern Somalia. Its self-proclaimed borders correspond exactly with those of the former protectorate of British Somaliland before its incorporation into Somalia 34 years ago. The self-styled Somaliland government of President Mohammed Ibrahim Egal has yet to be recognized by any foreign power, but the secessionists are taking advantage of Somalia's continuing instability to press their claim to independence. It raises perplexing questions of self-determination, territorial integrity, national sovereignty and the role of the international community in helping Somalia rise from the ashes of war and famine. One of the most prominent opponents of secession is Ahmed Mohammed Adan, a Somali diplomat and statesman who himself hails from the former British Somaliland but is not a member of the ***** clan. During his career in the Somali diplomatic service, which began with independence in 1960, Adan served as ambassador to the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, the United States and the United Nations. He was serving as Somalia's foreign minister when the 1991 overthrow of former President Mohammed Siad Barre plunged the country into its current state of chaos. Now Adan is affiliated with the United Somali Party and serves on a popularly elected council which oversees regional affairs for the northern Sol and Sanaag areas, within the British Somaliland boundaries, pending the re- establishment of a government in Mogadishu. Currently a resident of the United Arab Emirates, Adan spoke to the Washington Report during a recent U.S. visit to discuss the secession issue with American and U.N. officials. Adan insists that a majority of the residents of the former Somaliland oppose secession, and that the independence movement is an attempt by the ***** clan to grab power. The ***** form a plurality in Somaliland since they live almost entirely within the former British Somaliland, while the disputed region's four other clans extend into the rest of Somalia. "It's a one-tribe issue," Adan says. "The ***** want to secede and the other clans are saying no. The others are willing to manage their own affairs locally until such time as a central government is formed. They are willing to be patient." Adan dismisses the view that ongoing violence in the former Somali capital of Mogadishu and the southern city of Kismayu has led many non-***** northerners to favor an independent Somaliland. "Despite their other differences, all of the other clans are against secession," Adan says. He points out that a divided Somalia would cut across most clan lines, separating the majority of those in Somaliland from members of their clans in the south. "At least this is one issue that has brought the clans together," he adds. Adan also disputes the notion that Somaliland enjoys tranquility, noting that Egal's government does not control large portions of the region, including the airport at the capital of Hargeisa and the main seaport of Berbera. Outside observers say the ***** themselves are split by rivalries among various sub- clans. "Egal's writ does not run in the areas of the other clans, and his government, police, courts, etc. have no presence there," Adan says. "He is presiding over a very chaotic situation, despite the claims that there is stability. There is no such thing as a united Somaliland." The breakaway region was known as the protectorate of British Somaliland between 1884 and 1960, when the colonial administration withdrew. Voters in a popular referendum in February of that year elected to join Somalia to the south. An act of union was negotiated by the Hargeisa and Mogadishu governments, ratified by both national assemblies and then approved by popular vote across Somalia in 1961. "There is no such thing as a united Somaliland." According to the act of union, any effort to dissolve the united republic must be approved by a four-fifths majority of all Somali voters. The ***** claim that they are exercising their right to self-determination in the absence of a central government authority. However, Adan argues that both the United Nations and the Organization of African Unity have repeatedly upheld the principle that self-determination cannot be applied to an integral part of a sovereign state. In the past, he notes, Somalia's attempts to raise the issue of self-determination in Ethiopia's Somali-populated ****** province were rebuffed repeatedly by the international community for just this reason. ***** secessionist aspirations date back to the early years of Somali independence, Adan feels, and gradually evolved into the armed Somali National Movement (SNM). "The ***** felt they lost out in the union," according to Adan. He notes, however, that members of the ***** clan have served in every major post in the Somali government save that of president. Somaliland President Egal, for instance, was prime minister of Somalia from 1967 to 1969, and has also held the education and defense portfolios. In the 1980s, the SNM came to rely on former Ethiopian dictator Mengistu Haile Mariam for arms, training and logistical support for its guerrilla attacks. Following Mengistu's 1988 rapprochement with Siad Barre, however, the SNM commandos were evicted from Ethiopia and returned to northwest Somalia. There they began a series of attacks against government forces, capturing parts of Hargeisa and the inland city of Burao. SNM leaders privately told their clan followers they were fighting for independence, while publicly claiming to support a united Somalia. Siad Barre's forces launched a brutal counter-insurgency campaign from Mogadishu to put down the rebels. In doing so, they were responsible for a number of atrocities against civilians and created lasting resentment among the *****. Somalia's disastrous descent into chaos after the 1991 fall of Siad Barre allowed the SNM and the ***** to realize their goal of Somaliland independence. The Egal government still faces two serious challenges, however: the economic weakness of Somaliland and the lack of formal international recognition. The former British Somaliland "will have to be economically supported and subsidized by a foreign country," Ahmed Mohammed Adan believes, noting that "even with the whole of Somalia there has been the problem of economic viability." A parallel can be drawn with Djibouti-formerly French Somaliland-- which relies on French aid for its continued existence. The Hargeisa government has talked about exploiting the region's oil resources, but the only significant reserves lie outside the Egal government's zone of control. (Sool) Hargeisa's attempts to break out of its international isolation have led other Somalis to embark on a campaign to block any diplomatic recognition of Somaliland. During his American visit Adan met with a number of State Department officials, congressmen and congressional staffers, ambassadors to the United Nations and U.N. Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali. Adan's message was that "any attempt by secessionist elements to gain recognition should be rejected," he said. "All of the people I have met agree that secession is not the solution to the problems of Somalia, and that other, more positive solutions should be found," Adan says. Foreign diplomats, including U.N. Security Council members, told him secession is an internal Somali matter and their countries will not grant recognition to Somaliland without the approval of all Somalis. "But we are somewhat suspicious," Adan says. "I think it is very dangerous to encourage these people. It could provoke civil war in the north, since the other clans will not accept this. They want to stay with the rest of the republic," he says. In addition, Adan notes, "it will create a dangerous precedent for other African countries." As for Washington's approach, "I was told that the U. S. was neither for nor against this secession," Adan smiles. "What this means, I don't know." Adan is adamant, though, that the world community should play a role in the future of Somalia. "It would be unwise to disengage from Somalia now, after so much has been invested in men and materiel," he believes. "If the international community walks away from the civil strife in Somalia it could continue and spread into neighboring countries. "The countries of the Horn of Africa are not yet stable. With Somalia next door, there is a danger of its instability affecting neighboring states," Adan says. "There are borders, but there are no walls. . .It is Somalis who will find a solution, but we should be helped, not left to our own devices." Despite his hard and fast opposition to secessionist Somaliland, Adan is hopeful that agreement can be reached with the *****. "If they get nowhere with the international community," he says, "they might be willing to renegotiate the act of union. We are not against that. Certainly some decentralization would benefit all of the people. "We can find a solution within the framework of Somalia rather than breaking up the country," Adan argues. "We are open to discussion of all these options, short of secession. We can try to find a constitutional system that will satisfy all the groups and parties in Somalia." Listening to Somalia's last foreign minister argue so passionately against a clan-motivated secession of his own homeland from that troubled country, the observer can only conclude that such a peaceful solution will be difficult to find. Nevertheless, confronting the turmoil that has gripped Somalia over the last three years, most Somali political leaders finally may be more interested in compromise than conflict. Source: Noakes, Greg. The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. Washington: May 31, 1994. Vol. XII, Iss. 7; pg. 53 - - Copyright American Educational Trust May 31, 1994 www.wardheernews.com

Norf and A.J, you indirectly support Ethiopia's presence in Somalia too. So lets cut the crap. I am not one to defend Duke (he can defend himself). This chicken and egg story has gone on long enough. SSDF is the egg, SNM is the chicken, SL is the egg, PL is the chicken, relations between Ethiopia and SL are the egg, and relations between Ethiopia and TFG are the chicken. And in Somalia there are many eggs and chickens. Duke, adna naga daa sheekadan. Stick to your original script; don't be trying to sing a different tune now that you see that PL and TFG are doomed entities. No supporter of secession can criticize the TFG and other stooges because they are also implicated in Ethiopia's occupation in Somalia. If you guys need me to go deeper into this subject I can get you links where we had discussed this topic before.

Originally posted by Ghanima: ^^^EXcuse Me?^^ When have ever said I think it is normal to mary your brother/ sister Akhaas. :eek: There is no good enough reason to marry your brother. :mad:

He didn't defraud them; he wanted to make money for them. What if his gamble paid of? Wouldn’t the bank take the money and thank him for it. He took risks and when he messed up he tried to cover his mess up. It’s the banks fault for not having adequate security measures to prevent things like this from happening. It’s easy to pin all this down on one man. But the whole system failed.

^he got greedy and messed up. Its not his fault if you ask me...its the banks fault. It seems they never learn from the past.

We got ourselves a new record holder.

^ma xiirantii baa ku sixraday? War ha isku qarxin meesha

G: I mean there is a general offensive starting again after a lull in Islamaphobia activities. Because when I turned on the radio this morning the first 3 stories in the news where Islam/terror related. 1. Hofstad group 2. Burka ban 3. Wilders movie 4. Palestinians Thats Holland today, I bet ya in every western country you will find Islam related stories dominating the news. ps. That persian from the comite of ex-muslims is gonna make his own film too. So Wilders film is not the last one. To count as an Islamaphoob you have to make your own movie these days.

Dutch appeal court acquits "Hofstad" group Published: Wednesday 23 January 2008 19:34 UTC Last updated: Thursday 24 January 2008 13:24 UTC The Hague - A Dutch appeal court in The Hague has acquitted seven men accused of belonging to a terrorist organisation, known as the "Hofstad" group. The men were arrested in 2004 on suspicion of preparing terrorist attacks in the Netherlands, shortly after the murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh. The appeal court ruled that the group was a network, but it did not have a common ideology with terrorist intent. The sentence of the main suspect Jason Walters, originally a US citizen, remains the same at 15 years. He threw a grenade at police shortly before they attempted to raid the apartment he was in. The sentence of a second man in the apartment, Ismaïl Akhnikh, was reduced from 13 years to 15 months and he was released. The men regularly met at the house of Mohamed Bouyeri, who is serving a life sentence for the murder of Theo van Gogh.

The Netherlands: Government Said to Back Off Burqa Ban By REUTERS Published: January 24, 2008 The government has decided it will not impose a general ban on the wearing of burqas and similar garments in public on security grounds, but will bar them and full-face veils at schools and for government workers, local news reports said. They said the government had concluded that a broad ban would violate the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of religion. About a million Muslims live in the Netherlands, and Muslim groups say just 50 to 100 women regularly wear a burqa. Geert Wilders, the right-wing leader of an anti-immigration party, sent a bill to Parliament last July proposing a ban on the burqa in public.

Is it me or is the spring offensive early this year? This looks like someone is trying to give new impulses to the campaign that has been running the past couple of years.

Xiin mahadsanid, but lately i have been thinking.....yea I havent been doing that before. The gems that are shared on this forum sparked new ideas and made me look at the issues we face differently. I am thankfull for the input of the local heavyweights. I hope that we go back to the days when I ideas were shared and the debate was lively. I hope that one day I can present my case as articulate and to the point as some nomads overhere. So far I have got the secessionists cornered, but for me to bring this debate home they have to come out in the open and face the challenge on their ideology. Jbro: looooooooolz Gabayte: Good Luck Layzie: are you trying to get a rise out of me? I realize that talking trash gets them flowing for you, but step up to da plate or move on, I getting bored you see. ps. I don't attack regions or innocent people. I attack an ideology. pss. Oodweyne xaguu ka dhacay. Could it be he is negotiating with da british about the secessionists independance.

wow this style of drawing! especially the second pic.