OK, Again for those of you who are slow. The resistance should fight the Ethiopians and their dabodhil*fs by all means necessary. The most effective way to kick them out is if they face a united Somali front. The resistance should work towards building that united Somali front. The aim is not to kill for the sake of killing, the aim should be to win this damn war. The aim should be to bring peace and justice to Somalia. Waving fists and screaming bloody murder will not solve the problems. Find a solution to our internal divisions will solve it. What is so hard to get about that? To the one that said the resistance arms are tied, are their brains also tied? and whats this PR stunt your talking about? is reconciling Somalis a PR stunt? You guys are turning into those that your saying that your opposing. So yes Meles is right when he says the Ethiopians will leave when the Somalis find peace amongst themselves, when we find peace amongst ourselves we will find unity and when we find unity no one will be able to stop the Somalis. Lets not disagree with him for the sake of disagreeing.

Originally posted by GJ_Goate: @Me, I didn't call you a stoog! I meant the notion of, " occupiers are here because we can't get along" is invoked by every dhabodhilif known in history. Indeed, Somalis need unity and reconcialition. That is not disputed by anyone. I was referring more about the aim of misleading people and trying to demonize the resistance, by implying that they are against peace. When the onyl thing they are against is Ethiopian troops. Who is misleading the people? Isn't it the responsibility of the resistance to take the moral high ground to advocate for peace, to work towards Somali unity? Isn't that the resistance responsibility and the resistance is not doing what is expected of them. The resistance is loosing the momentum. the resistance should do more with this golden opportunity. I just hope they have got what it takes. The real war will be fought not on the streets of Muqdisho, but in the hearts and minds of the Somalis. Excuse my cliche. Bombs won't win this war, but transparance, accountibility and the vision to lead the whole nation. Making promises and sharing your vision will win more supporters then beheading soldiers.

Listen here you fist wavers, I do not trust Ethiopians and their word. I do no believe that they will leave in 24 hours. I do not believe they will ever leave unless they are kicked out. But for them to be kicked out we should be united and fist-wavings and screaming whatever slogans you guys have today won't make them leave or change one bit of the reality on the ground in Somalia today. If you want change in Somalia, first change your tune. First tell me and fellow Somalis why we should support you in your case. Why is it in our interest to support you? You tell me about Muqdisho, Somalia is bigger then Muqdisho, What about the people in all the other provinces? Where is their JUSTICE? Where was their JUSTICE when they were being murdered in the streets of MUQDISHO in the 90's? Where is the JUSTICE for people of Bay and Bakool when they were being starved to death? Where is the JUSTICE for the people of Shabelle when they were being enslaved? So understand SOMALIA is bigger then MUQDISHO. Every faction is looking out for nr.1 so come up with a message that appeals to all. Why should a Somali from another province support these forces that are fighting the Ethiopians? WHY? Think about that question horta and when you have figured out the why, ask yourself HOW can you get the support of the people from all provinces? Honestly I think that you two guys are too lazy to think or are only interested in fist-wavings. The 6 months of heaven comment is a classic Socodbadne. Heaven kulaha? Heaven for who? Isn’t Muqdisho supposed to be the capital of the Somalis? How diverse is the population of Muqdisho today? Is it my capital when I can't live there? Talk to me in a language I can understand, why are my properties still occupied? Why hasn’t anyone addressed that issue for the past 17 years? Talk to people in a language they can all understand. First the surwaalgaabs should talk to their fellow Somalis, first they should get the real support of the people and for them to get that, they need to talk, negotiate and reconcile the Somali people. Only then they will be able to have real effect. Otherwise they will bleed to dead and will end up as just another clan faction. GJ_Goate, thanx for calling me a stooge . If I am a stooge then you’re an id*ot. Let me put it in bold for all those folks that are too slow to catch up. FOR THE ETHIOPIANS TO LEAVE/KICKED OUT, THERE SHOULD BE A UNITED SOMALI FRONT. FOR THERE TO BE A UNITED SOMALI FRONT THERE SHOULD BE RECONCILIATIONS BETWEEN SOMALIS. We do not have to go to Qaahira, Khartuum, AdisAbaba, Nayroobi, Rome, Washington iyo London. We don’t need to stay in fancy hotels for months. We don’t need foreigners to mediate or even observe. If we want peace we know how to find each other. Now by all means continue to your fist-wavings. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Ethiopia's main weapon against us is not it's tanks or it's troops. It's main weapon against us is our lack of unity. They play us out against each other. Let's deny them that weapon by talking together and working together to solve our problems.

What do you guys want? Fight Ethiopia and its stooges? Go right ahead. I will cheer you on. But to have real effect first there should be consensus and unity amongst the Somalis (I am not talking about stooges and hired guns here). I would also like to see what we should fight for. I am sorry but what’s the point of spilling blood just in order to replace one tyrant with another? Or worse to go back to the period before 26 December 2006. First we need to get our shid together only then can we face the Ethiopians. Hadii kale by all means continue your fist waving and good luck fighting the Ethiopians while the rest of the Somalis stand on the sidelines and watch you get slaughtered. Ilaahay maskax ayuu ku siiyay isticmaal! First build a support base, come with a message that the majority of the people can find themselves in. Get support in all regions, share your vision with the rest and then start your fight. Everyone sees what the crimes being committed everyday, but lets not waste time with half a$$ed shid. There are many ways to fight, you can go unprepared into battle and get slaughtered like those young men in December 26 or you can bide your time and prepare. This anti-occupation struggle will not succeed unless there is a united Somali front. Do you want results? The fastest way to results is by negotiating with fellow Somalis. Ps. check that thread on reconciliation that Xiinfiniin was propelling.

I believe in doing what needs to be done as long as what needs to be done serves a purpose. What purpose does beheading soldiers serve? 1. To show that the Al-Shabaab are blood thirsty killers? 2. That a TFG soldier shouldn't surrender and fight to the death? 3. I am more inclined to believe that this is propoganda against the Al-Shabaab. I mean come on! Beheading TFG soldiers. It would be more effective to bribe them, to convert them to your cause, to infiltrate them. Beheading is contra productive.

I do not disagree with anything you posted. I am just saying, the Ethios don't have to leave for us to make peace, it's not a precondition to reconciliations. First the peaceloving Somalis that want justice should make peace amongst themselves and then face the Ethiopians and those that work for them. Also we should learn from the overthrow of Siad Bare. I don't trust these wadaado, whats their plan? what will happen if they win? Why don't they tell us what their plan is for Somalia?

^This is a not between warring factions. It's between all Somalis. It would be easy if it were one group TFG versus Wadaado. It's much bigger then that and the Ethio's are not the problem. The sooner we realize the problem is how we Somalis view each other and how much we are willing to killing there will always be parties that would take advantage. The problem is between me, you, hebel and heblaayo. We gave the chance to Ethio's because we decided we can't live together in peace and we decided to do injustice against each other. So first we should get our hearts and minds cleaned up and see where our interests lie, only then can we oppose our enemies. But as long as we see each other as enemies, we will get nowhere. We need to start respecting each other and our institutions as long as we do not respect each other, what’s the point of living together? Who will replace these TFG dabodhil*fs? Who will replace the Ethio occupation? Will we go back to the period before December 2006? First the majority of the Somalis should find peace in their hearts and start respecting their fellow citizens. The sooner we do that; the sooner this era of jahwareer can end.

Does one find themselves homeless and decides to marry so only to acquire a place to live? There are enough people who have done that and are still doing it and will do that in the future. There are enough people who get married for socio-economic advancement. And that does include a roof over your head. What would be your primary reason for marrying a person? would you marry someone that can't provide a roof over your head?

1. It involves consent because the people entering into these arrangements are not captives they are free individuals that make a free choice to exchange services. 2. The traditional marriage is an exchange of services too. People marry for many reasons, but usually one or more of the following: legal, social and economic stability; the formation of a family unit; procreation and the education and nurturing of children; legitimizing sexual relations; public declaration of love; or to obtain citizenship. ps. I would have a problem with these arrangements if it was done to illegals. But these are French citizens who have a recourse to the courts if they are abused.

Oui!

Usually these arrangements are called a marriage.

France's sordid housing crisis By Jonny Dymond Europe correspondent, BBC News It took six months for Liberation journalist Ondine Millot to get to the truth about the most sordid side of France's housing crisis. Look through some property websites and you can see the advertisements: the phrase you are looking for is contre services - when a room in an apartment is offered, sometimes "free", in exchange for services. Sometimes the service is perfectly innocent - cleaning the apartment or washing clothes, to defray some of the high cost of renting property. But sometimes it is not: instead the requests are sexual, demeaning, bordering on the perverse. "Sex twice a month," is one blunt demand. Another asks for someone "open in spirit and elsewhere". "Flat in exchange for libertine services," goes another. Property-for-sex Ondine Millot - who in her day job is the court correspondent for the French daily paper - spent six months researching these advertisements and the people who place them, for an article which exposed the trade in property-for-sex. Most of the ads ... where no amount was specified for the rent, were men that were looking for sex in exchange for housing. Ondine Millot, Liberation journalist "I was very surprised to find out that this kind of thing was going on," she says. "We called a lot of men, I made something like 50 phone calls. Most of the ads that were 'against services', where no amount was specified for the rent, were men that were looking for sex in exchange for housing." But the problem is not just hidden away on websites. Take a quick look through the bookshelves of any decent-sized newsagent, and tucked between the biographies of the former French First Lady and the former American First Lady is the extraordinary account of Laura D. Her book, My Dear Studies (Mes Cheres Etudes), details the anonymous young woman's slide from being a fresh-faced undergraduate, to a poverty-stricken student, to a 19-year-old selling her body to pay the rent. "Laura", when I meet her at her publisher's, is charming, if desperately concerned to keep her identity secret, to spare her parents the horror of knowing how their daughter fell. But she is also angry. It was, she says, the astronomical cost of property that sent her on to the streets. "Rent was over 70% of my budget," she says. "Looking at friends, people I know, they live in places that are unhealthy, squalid. Or they negotiate with landlords who rent them rooms and who sometimes abuse them." Housing Crisis Sex for rent is the extreme end of an extreme problem which is catching swathes of France's most vulnerable people - the young and the poor - in its grip. France, the government admits, is in the grip of its worst housing crisis since the end of World War II. Of course, sky-high property prices are hardly exclusive to France. But some combination of circumstances has left the French - and especially the Parisian - rental market horribly stretched between supply and demand. And too many people caught between homelessness and bankruptcy as they struggle to put a roof over their heads. There are a far higher proportion of properties empty in Paris than in London. As the number sleeping rough has declined in the British capital, it has climbed in the French capital. In Britain the norm is owner-occupation. While in France rental is seen as the way to live. Protests The French Republic was built on street protest. So, unsurprisingly, a new generation of housing protest groups have sprung up to campaign in innovative ways. Groups such as Jeudi Noir, Droit au Logement and Les Enfants de Don Quichote have grabbed publicity - and, they say, won political concessions - through their protests. Jeudi Noir is the guerrilla wing of the movement, conducting sting operations on landlords looking for something extra on the side. They also view and film tiny apartments being advertised for extortionate rents. Les Enfants de Don Quichote left the French government twisting with embarrassment with a mass sleep out in Paris last year, as hundreds of activists and homeless people slept in tents by the Seine. Droit au Logement, alongside Jeudi Noir, has occupied a former bank right opposite the old Paris stock exchange, just down the road from the Bank of France. It has rechristened the building The Ministry of Housing Crisis, and uses it as both an operational base and a squat. The groups' actions keep the issue in the public eye. They know that great stunts are not going to get the million homes that France needs built. But they also believe that unless the pressure is kept up on politicians local and national, then change will never come. Christine Boutin, the French Housing Minister, has acknowledged the efforts of the campaign groups and has begun looking at ways to improve the conditions of the rental market. Crossing Continents on BBC Radio 4 reports on the housing situation in France on Thursday, 13 March at 1100 GMT.

Ethiopian army will leave Somali soil “only when Somalis make peace among themselves,” at which point Ethiopian troops will withdraw Whats wrong with that statement? should they leave while we are still killing each other? will we have a miraculous peace when the Ethio's leave? Are Ethio's the problem or just a symptom of the problem in Somalia? First we make peace and then they will leave whether they want to or not. My personal opinion today is the Ethiopian presence has it's advantages, if we put national pride aside (pride we lost a long long time ago) we should first make peace amongst ourselves before we can talk about the Ethiopians. There is not a sane Somali that doesn't know that Ethiopia is sabotaging every effort we make towards peace and reconciliation. But the biggest obstacle against peace in Somalia is corrupt leaders who have no long term vision and mistrust amongst the Somalis. First lets plan for what will happen when the Ethio's get kicked out, only then should they be kicked out. It will be another disaster if they leave without us getting our shid together.

Originally posted by Che -Guevara: Where I'm it is usually Xalimos taking little peaks. Of course, I pretend that I don't see.

Serials are boring. lol@dominicans.

what if he is a serial killer?

why is teh court in Ethiopian colours?

^hahahahaha.....hadal bilaash waaxid anta!

Jbro fudeedkaaga meesha uu ku geeyay arag....ma islaam iyo qabiil baad leedahay ayaa is dhalay?

There are other ways of finding out how old the clan system is in Somalia. The clan system could have had other function. Clan could have started of as a way of organizing the population of regions for the war against the xabash. Horta which one was first islam or clan in Somalia?

No it wasn't. Clan was developed around the 16th century. All the major clans came into existance after the 16th century. The simple abtirsiyo test proves that. The Arabs brought the clan system to Somalia. Clan is an Arab cultural phenomenon and is not Somali.

Originally posted by GJ_Goate: Some Somalis tried to reconstruct the image of Ahmed Gurey as Somali Nationalist( in the modern sense), or a clan hero for their respective clan; neither are true!The nonsense above is a good example of that. Also, Richard Burton's writings on Somalia are misleading, inaccurate and fanciful. ps. you're not allowed to mention clan names On this forum! ^Oromoyahow naga aamus! Farxaan, the clans that live in Awdal today haven't always lived in Awdal. So Ahmed Guray can be a member of several clans. Also clans did not exist in the time of Axmed Guray or they were just starting.

I see a candidate

Most of you are first generation right?