Can we safely conclude that our secessionist brethren don't have an answer? aahhh i love the sillence!

MMA i love the tread, maybe a bit late, allot traveling done already. Keep it up! Maybe we can predict the chances of a plane crash involving one of them. All this traveling is increasing their chances of dying through a plane crash

Ok, This is scary! Stop this sheepishness, lets have a clear discussion without calling each other kufaar. I personally am against amputations. how ever i am for the death penalty on certain occations (murder, rape, corruption), but only if it is ccarried out HUMANELY! In my opinion radicals are hijacking islam and threatning other muslims for speaking out against it, this is what will damage islam more then anything else. ISLAM IS NOT SAVAGE! THESE ACTS ARE SAVAGE ISLAM IS PEACE ISLAM IS TOLERANCE ISLAM IS BROTHERHOOD ISLAM IS NOT CHOPPING OF LIMBS ISLAM DOES NOT APPROVE TERRORISM ISLAM IS PROGRESSIVE ISLAM HAS ALWAYS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF SCIENCES. ISLAM IS FOR ALL OF HUMANITY. THIS IS NOT ISLAM AND I WILL NOT ACCEPT THESE RADICAL EXTREMISTS WHO ARE TRYING TO DESTROY ISLAM TO GET A WAY WITH IT. THINK AND STOP THIS IGNORANCE. THIS GROUPTHINK IS KILLING ISLAM. SECONDLY. If a country chooses those laws and they are fair and just in their executions. I have no problem against it, but i won't live there.

General Jama Mohamed Ghalib is a senior politician from northwest Somalia, a lieutenant of Somali National Movement(SNM) and the author of "The Cost of Dictatorship: The Somali Experience" Enjoy the read. -------------------------------------------------- This article is in response to an article published in many Somali and non-Somali website in March 2006, by Bashir Goth entitled “Will the Arabs dare to listen to Somaliland?†I agree with Mr. Bashir about the great suffering meted out to the Somali people of the north during the twenty-one year totalitarian military rule. And although many other groups of southern Somalis were also equally meted out to similar maltreatment in the hands of that regime, nonetheless, some northern communities, especially the Issaaq, were collectively subjected to discriminatory atrocities to the culmination of mass extra-judicial executions. I also agree with Mr. Bashir about the relative peace that exists in many parts of the north in contrast to the south. But the common Somali people bear no responsibilities for these heinous crimes. However thereafter, I do not only differ with Mr. Bashir, but also totally disagree with all his other assertions on the issue, which I endeavour to address under the following headings: A: THE CURRENT SITUATION The prevalent situation in the north of the Somali Republic that now styles itself as ‘Somaliland’ has been the best of an overall bad scene since the collapse of the Somali nation state in early 1991. As already mentioned here above, there has been a relative peace in many parts of the north very much unlike most areas of the south. Some semblances of most ingredients of governance also exist there. However, these are not without dictatorial bents and bullying where the rule of law is flawed. Of all parts of present Somalia, only in the administration of the north are the centres of the power to be remnants of the former dreaded security apparatus of the defunct regime of Siad Barre. Despite the existence of nominal houses of parliament, stifling of dissent by the authorities is widespread and there exists no mandatory habeas corpus to safeguard the liberty of the individual for the ends of justice. Just to cite a few examples, during early 2005 or so, four defence lawyers were arbitrarily and simultaneously convicted in Hargeisa in connection with a legal argument with the public prosecutor inside a court room. It was highly improbable that all four lawyers should have together misbehaved. Even so, in legal ethics, an independent court would be expected to only require them to apologize to the court and failing that could have suspended their legal practices as the last resort. The treatment meted out by the court to the four lawyers was outrageous and was characterized by the mockery of the former military regime’s legal system. The simultaneous conviction of all the four defence lawyers very much prejudiced the defence of a female child who was paradoxically accused and convicted of the serious crime of spying. The child was, according to Human Rights groups, incapable of committing such crime because of her age of childhood. Spying is an art that required special training and experience both of which could not have been accomplished during childhood. A standoff controversy has arisen between Riyale’s administration and the recently elected parliament over the annual budget. The parliament made some variations of funds allocations in favour of the social services before approving the overall budget. After receiving the parliament’s approval, the administration circumvented the budget implementation by ignoring the variations made by the parliament and working on its earlier Draft Budget. The standoff is yet unresolved. Again, only very recently an NGO, Care International, was about to hire the wife of a leader of a political opposition party, after she had emerged as the right candidate through the process of interviews, etc. The authorities then intervened and aborted her employment opportunity, simply because her husband happened to be an opponent of the authorities. B: THE HISTORY It had long been the cherished goal of all Somalis to reunite all the Somali territories that had been arbitrarily grabbed by foreign powers and divided among themselves and bring them under one flag. Nonetheless, the timing of the 1960 north-south reunion was prematurely imposed upon the south by the people of the north, who not only demanded an immediate reunion without any preconditions, but also even denied their representatives mandate for any bargaining initiative during negotiations with the south for the reunion. While the southern politicians could not even delay the popular demand of the northern people, much less to reject it, despite the immaturity of its timing, they were, nonetheless, appalled when their northern counterparts said at the negotiating table that they had no preconditions whatsoever. The northerners accepted with alacrity the proposals presented by the south including a southern capital and southern constitution. The southern politicians doubted the seriousness of their northern counterparts, but there was no turning point and the reunification was eventually proclaimed. Because of being over zealous about the reunion the northerners made further concessions by accepting a total southern leadership such as the presidency of the republic, the premiership, key ministerial portfolios and the Commandants of the armed forces during the formation of the first unified national government. However, the Somali leaders were conscious of these regional imbalances and always endeavoured and continued to make the necessary amends. Half of the eight early ambassadorships appointed in 1961 were assigned to northerners in London, Paris Moscow and Addis Ababa and their southern counterparts were assigned to Cairo, Rome, Washington and the UN, although the northern population strength was about one-third and the parliamentary representation about one-fourth. In the formation of the second Somali government in 1964 under the premiership of Mr. Abdirazak Hagi Hussen, northerners were appointed to most key portfolios of that cabinet including Foreign Affairs, Finance, Defence, Agriculture and Planning. Likewise, almost half of senior civil service posts were assigned to northerners. About 36% of development projects during the nine-year civilian rule were allocated to the north. Mr. Bashir distorts history by citing examples irrelevant to the Somali case of other individual countries that since split into becoming more different countries. And to just briefly comment on each of the examples, those separations were not opted for by either the peoples of Lebanon and Syria or Jordan and Palestine, but were engineered by colonial machinations and designs. Egyptian-Syrian union, not unlike West and East Pakistan (present Bangladesh), among other things, became dysfunctional for lack of geographical proximity. The Union of Gambia and Senegal lacked homogeneity among the two peoples. Likewise, the problem of north and south Sudan stemmed from lack of homogeneity-cum religious differences, Mr. Bashir’s remarks that Djibouti’s decision of separate independence in 1977 dealt a blow to the Greater Somalia endeavours is another distortion of fact and history, because Djibouti is not inhabited only by ethnic Somalis. And in appreciation of this reality the Somali Government of Mr. Abdirazak Hagi Hussen declared to the whole world in 1966 its denunciation of any Somali claim over Djibouti. Only then ethnic Afar groups came forward and joined the pro-independence movement. Continued division of the population of Djibouti over that issue could have at best unduly delayed their independence much longer. Djibouti’s separate statehood was therefore foreseeable by all sensible people including the Somalis, despite Siad Barre’s attempts of last minute overture. None of this cases have any parallel similarity with the Somali situation. C: THE SECESSION ISSUE The population of the north is composed of five groups: of equal partners (1) the Issaaq who inhabit the central areas; (2) the Gadabursi to whom the present incumbent president Riyale also belongs and (3) the Issa live in the west of that territory; while the two other groups: (4) the Dolbahante and (5) the Warsengeli live in the east. The secession has been the brainchild of the Issaaq (to whom I also belong) and was supported by the majority of the Gadabursi and the Iss-a. All these three groups are sub-sets of the D-ir clan. To the contrary, the overwhelming majorities of the other two eastern non-D-ir groups who belong to the Ha-rti of the Dar-od clan are strongly opposed to the secession or for that matter any separate independence of the north. They, among other things, quite fairly fear of perpetual domination by the Di-r groups and their fear is not without justification, because for the last more than fifteen years the two top posts of president and vice-president have been alternating among the D-ir groups. The clan factor is the Achilles heel of Somali nationhood. Wisdom would therefore dictate that all decisions of such importance should always and only be reached by consensus of all the stakeholders, In this case among the five common groups inhabiting that area. Majority decision making is not the least in the lexicon of Somali traditional values and fair play. Consensus is the essence. Unilateralism vis-à -vis the secession is conflict prone and can only renew a civil war among the northern communities on the one hand and re-invite armed conflict between the authorities of Puntland and Somaliland on the other. Armed clashes already took place about a year ago or so between the two authorities concerned causing great lose of human lives and material damages. One of the main towns, a regional capital, Las-Anod, and all its hinterland, which is claimed by Somaliland has since been occupied and administered by the Puntland authorities. The article mentions internationally observed and democratically held elections, but omits the fact that at least more than one-fourth of the population did not participate those elections because they opposed the secession. The article also claims that a report compiled by an African Union fact-finding mission strongly recommended recognition of the secessionist entity. If this information is correct, it would only be one sided representing a partial view point and ignoring the opposite and to recommend the recognition of an entity that is not in control of more than one-fourth of the territory it claims is preposterous. And besides that, it will be a recognition that will only serve to invite another Somali civil war. The AU would be best advised to destine that report to a dust bin. In any case, the dismemberment of the country is not only a wrong diagnosis of the Somali national ills, but also a wrong surgery, because alternative solutions are not lacking. The article further claims that both Nigeria and South Africa indicated their readiness to recognize the secessionist entity. It is farfetched to believe that Nigeria that had the bitterest experience of fending off the Biafra secession would entertain the dismemberment of another African country. The claim looks preposterous and only wishful thinking of individual cronies of the secessionists. With regard to South Africa, however, there have been some flirtations and contacts by some officials with the secessionist entity. According to retrievals from websites some of these officials even claimed connections with higher personalities of South African officials. Nevertheless, nobody expects that South Africa will act without the greatest circumspection or would do anything that contributes to renewed civil war in the remote Somali desert with little prospects of policing such a fratricidal war. The article also suggests an alleged Egyptian-Ethiopian rivalry over the Nile waters as a bone of power play in Somali context. This is nonsense. Somalis lack both any knowledge and proximity of the Nile waters and can contribute little to nil, in one way or the other. However, the inclusion of this assertion looks like an Ethiopian view point by proxy, as a Somali adage says: EE DHEH (say it for me). It is not a secret that Egypt always and strongly supports Somali unity and that is a paramount Somali interest; while on the contrary Ethiopia strives to dismantle that unity, which is Somali disinterest. The article further suggests Egyptian influence over Saudi Arabia for its ban on Somali livestock export to the Kingdom. This is an insult to both Governments. Egypt does control other sovereign states. The ban was imposed during 1998 not only on ‘Somaliland’, but on all Somali parts when an outbreak of Rift Valley Fever was suspected. Somali livestock have since long ago been cleared free from the disease, but there has been no recognized government whose healthy certificates could be acceptable. D: THE LEGALITY Mr. Bashir joins the pro-secessionist erroneous mantra that claims the union, which I call reunion, was never ratified. What is a ratification and when does its need arise? It arises when an agency of a state enters into and signs a tentative agreement with a third party. That agency then seeks final approval from its higher institution(s). Such approval is ratification. In the case of the Somali reunion, it was an act of parliament, which was the highest institution in the land. Who else would be needed to ratify it? Furthermore, there is nothing more authentic than the historical events of the reunification and the Act(s) of Union recorded, among other things, by the United Nations chief legal adviser, Dr. Paolo Contini, seconded to the then new government of the Somali Republic at the latter’s request for during 1960-64, who was also the chairman of the legal integration committee. I extract the following relevant summary from his book: ‘THE SOMALI REPUBLIC: AN EXPERIMENT IN LEGAL INTEGRATION’ (as per italics) here below:. “The decision to form a union was reached at conference of Northern and Southern Somali leaders held in Mogadiscio between April 16 and 22, 1960. “On June 27, the day after its independence, Somaliland’s Legislative Assembly passed ‘The Union of Somaliland and Somalia Law No, 1 of 1960’. “On June 30, the Legislative Assembly of the Trust Territory met. After prolonged debate, in the evening of June 30, the Assembly approved the Atto di Unione (Act of Union). “At midnight of June 30, the Trusteeship Agreement ceased to be in force, and the President of the Legislative Assembly, acting in his capacity as provisional President of the Republic proclaimed the independence of the State of Somalia. During the same night he promulgated the Constitution, which came into force immediately. “In the morning of July 1, the members of the Legislative Assemblies of Somaliland and Somalia met in joint session as the first National Assembly. The President of the Assembly proclaimed the union and the members sealed it by standing ovation. As of that moment the Constitution was deemed to apply to both parts of the Somali Republic.†The former colonial boundary between the two Somali territories ceased to exist as from July 1, 1960, the date of the proclamation of the reunification. In spit of that, the secessionist entity still claims that former boundary as being consistent with the then OAU (now AU) resolution about the sanctity of boundaries inherited from the former colonial powers. This is wishful thinking nonsense. The then OAU resolution, which was adopted by its second Summit, held in Cairo in 1964, more than four years later since the Somali reunification and long after that boundary in question had ceased to exist, was neither retrospective nor was it designed to unravel already established institutions of its member states. Its only object was to be applied to future contingencies. That resolution would not even apply to the Union of Tanzanian by the merger of the two former states of Tanganyika and Zanzibar, which had just been proclaimed only few months or few weeks before that Cairo Summit. Conclusion of Treaties of Protection that Britain had entered into with elders representing various Somali tribes or clans during 1884-86 were the basis of the north’s colonial history for the following seventy-six years. A lone, but important, non-signatory of those treaties of protection was the Dolbahante. The subsequent de facto association of this group and their homeland within the British Somaliland Protectorate administration was only by default and mutual expediency, but never a de jure. However, since the essence of the north’s independence in 1960 was only perceived as a transitory process to the reunification with the south, it was non-controversial. If otherwise, however, the then new State of Somaliland could not have inherited the Dolbahante homeland without the latter’s consent, and would not even now, had that issue not already been resolved by the reunification process. Because that independence would only be for the signatories of those treaties of protection, but the Dolbahabte that was not a party to those treat could only join it by own consent. Faithfully, Jama Mohamed Ghalib

Soomaaliay Ha Noolaato!!! I will celebrate this day with my family and my SOL family. The end of the occupation of the Eastern and Northern Somali territories did not come for free. It was the result of a bitter struggle that has lasted for 75 years. It is worth remmembering and honouring all those brave souls that have foughtand died for our liberty. We shall not be the ones that betray the rightious cause. Soomaaliya Ha Noolaato!

Ok am I the only one or is Mr. Oodweyne dodging the questions? Please provide 'the bibliographically-recorded historical deeds of "Somaliland"' Or at least refute some of the major points in the article. No need to tell us who Siad barre is or get into name callings. Thank you

Please look at this article. http://wardheernews.com/Articles_06/may_06/21_Galaydh_Roobdoon.html

Please provide 'the bibliographically-recorded historical deeds of "Somaliland"' I would like to see them. Maybe you can direct me to a respected source. Thank you.

The irony recomending Mills to us and yet trying to sillece others. Its a wonderful world.

For me its a case of 'Between the Devil and the deep blue sea' I hope there is a true Somali in one of both camps and that that Somali guides us away from this mess. Nice link own here. Its propoganda so don't take it all too serieuse. But there 'Islamist' groups got the backing of arab countries that don't have the interests of the Somali people at heart and ofcourse our TFG is an Ethiopian puppet. . Somaliawatch used to be run as a propoganda machine and it was mostly pro-Ethiopian How about an independant Nationalist Somali Movement? wanna join? http://www.somaliawatch.org/archivedec02/021227601.htm

Great read!

Zomaar@mafkees.

This poll is in support of the poll started by Uthman1. It is simple. Choose between The TFG or the Islamic courts. Please provide the reason why you choose one over the other. Thank you

Bashir Goth is a sensationalist. Nice article, but usually he is full of c-rap.

heheehe, quite funny, well thats were we are at now Thank you Somalis, Thank you Clannism

Jabhada SNM Oo Uga Digtay Wadaada Somaliland Inay U Hanqaltaagaan Muqdisho!!!!! Warkii 18-Jun-2006 iyo Qormadii: C/raxmaan Ciise Maxamed (ilka case) Wararka ka imaanaya magaalada burco ee casimada labaad ee maamulka Somaliland ahna xarunta gobolka togdheer ayaa sheegaya in Hogaamiyaasha Ugu tunka way ee jabhadii SNM Ay uga digeen wadaada Somaliland inay taageeraan ama ay isku dayaan inay kicyaan shacabwaynaha Somaliland ee xorta ah .. Warkan oo uu xaqiijiyey wariyaha afnugaal.com ee burco C/raxmaan Ciise Maxamed (ilka case ) ayaa waxaa uu intaasi ku daray in uu Muranka jabhada iyo wadaada uu bilowday ka dib markii maxaakiimta islaamiga muqdisho ay qabsadeen gobolda Sh/dhexe iyo Hiiraan .isla markaana uu mudaba socday laakiin hada uun laga warhelay .. Wadaada iyo shicibwaynaha gobolka todheer ayaa umuuqda kuwa uga dhow Somali wayn beelaha kale ee Somaliland marka laga eego dhinacyada afkaarta dadwaynaha , dhaqanka iyo waliba lacagta, sidoo kale wadadaa magaalada burco ayaa lagu tiriyaa inay xidhiidh dhow laleeyihiin wadada magaalada muqdisho .. Magaalada burco ayaa ah meeshii ay ugu awooda badnayd jabhada ay somalida waqooyi ama Somaliland u taqaano jabhada xoraynta Jamhuuriya Somaliland .. Dadwaynaha Somaliland ayaa la yaaban Digniinta ay hada jabhada SNM ay usoo jeedisay wadaada , iyadoo dowlada Somaliland ee hada talada wadanka haysaa aanay wax wara ka soosaarin , .. Guud ahaan xaalada magaalada burco ayaa degan iyadoo la dareemayo xanshashaqa hadal haynta khilaafka cusub ee hada soo kala dhexgalay wadaada iyo jabhada SNM C/raxmaan Ciise Maxamed (ilka case) afnugaal.com, Burco --------------------------------------------------- And it spreads like wild fire

In my opinion this is just an incursion trying to see how we react. Just a little poke. They have done this in the past. Has the TFG requested for them? If not Why is the TFG not protecting Somalia's terrirorial integrity? If the TFG requested for them what is mandate for the Ethiopian troops? If the TFG is powerless against then, why don't they tell us to kick the Ethiopians out? Many Somalis are more then willing to punish the Ethiopians.

JOWHAR, Somalia (Reuters) - About 300 Ethiopian troops crossed into Somalia early on Saturday, a top Islamist said. "There are Ethiopian troops just past the border and coming in," Islamic Courts Union Chairman Sharif Sheikh Ahmed told reporters, citing the incursion in Dollow in southwest Somalia earlier on Saturday morning. Ethiopia, Washington's top counterterrorism ally in the Horn of Africa, had backed warlords the Islamists have routed from their strongholds in Mogadishu in a swift march from the coastal capital to Baladwayne near the Ethiopian border. Largely secular Ethiopia has long been wary of the influence of Islam in the region, and has fought Islamic forces inside Somalia before. The warlords are widely believed to have been armed by the Ethiopians, and financed with U.S. money.

The new weapon of choise ISLAM. I have nothing to add to xoogsade's comment. I agree 100%. waxaa la yidhi Burco is the capital of the wadaads and if an uprising is gonna start anywhere it will be in Burco. The islamists of the North Central and North eastern regions of Somalia risen up against clan powers in the early 1990's. The courts have allot sympathy and support there. The fears of the Puntland administration shows you that those people can not be taken lightly. I am really looking forward to when the revolution breaks starts in the North West. I want to see teh look on the faces of the godless leaders of the lost cause of the north west. Who have taken every opportunity to kill the dignity of teh peopleof the North West. Classical comments to be remmembered: 1. 'we are the orphans of the queen' 2. 'we have served you well english master' 3. 'now lets pray on teh graves of the english men who died defending Somalia' Also the welcoming of missionaries to our muslim lands. The introduction of Antoi-islamic lterature in the North West............etc etc (this is a long list and i am sure the wadaads will have a nice time setting all those wrongs right)

hehehehhehe. Welcome to qaxootihood Sudi and Rage. hmmm are there any people who they have commited crimes against? warcrimes? International Criminal Court?

hehehehhehe. Welcome to qaxootihood Sudi and Rage. hmmm are there any people who they have commited crimes against? warcrimes? International Criminal Court?

^^ I agree

This kind of attitude is what is gonna make any struggle that we get in harder. Look we are all Somalis if its war we should not be divided. We should forgive and forget. I as a North west guy am willing to forgive and forget to fight for the greater cause. My tantrum with xarago has shown me allot. That this will bereally hard and that we have more to fear from our brothers and sisters then from an external enemy. Those who are willing to fightshould sett the example. I trully believe all true Somalis will fight for the cause all they need is an example. Let us set a good example. This if you are not with us you are against us does not work with Somalis. Let us be honourable. The only reason that my hero Sayd Mohamed Abdilah Hassan's struggle was broken was because of the number of enemies he had withing the Somali clans. This struggle should be for all Somalis. In their name and for their benifit. It should not be clan based or even organized allong clan lines. If they come it is a chance that some of us have been waiting for. It is a chance to get all our territories back in one go. Instead of oga-denia we will be fighting in the Republic of Somalia. I can feel it coming in the air tonight, Oh Lord I've been waiting for this moment, for all my life, Oh Lord Can you feel it coming in the air tonight, Oh Lord, Oh Lord

Sidoo kale mac salaama.

Where are those st-upid people who used to say when an external enemy invades Somalia the Somalis will unite. Look at today. We are far from being united. Some are even pretending they live in a different country. waa cajaaib. aduunyo wax walba waan arkeynaa.