Hmmmm is that what it came to. I was wondering when you would give up and start hiding in the last hide out of the challenged mind, since you know that your cause can not be defended, intellectually, morally and legally. I am satisfied that you have at least understood the weaknesses of the pro-sland arguments and actually that there are no arguments for sland. It’s a one clan project and as you has already said Dugsi male qabyaaladu waxay dumiso mooyee. (Tribalism has no shelter except destruction) and anything that is built on clannism will not last.

hahahahaha,come onnnnn be serieuse. You know what i mean. They smell strange or is there something wrong with my nose.

Is it me or do mulatto’s smell strange? (just a random question) I met Dominicans, Colombians even a mix of Ghanaian and German and they had the same distinct smell, help me out please. You know, like Chinese people have that Chinese smell and West African that strange smell.

In my opinion us humans are not complete without a partner, without another half, without a companion, without a soulmate, without a lover. So single and happy is a lie (you can not be forever single and be happy with it). I am happy when I am single but I do not want to be single forever. After a long and hard relationship its good to have sometime alone and 'find' your self again. But after that you need to go back to the quest of searching that soulmate, because without it you will not be complete.

Well Girls look much better in guntiino. Dirac is for habaraha, guntiimo is for young women.

12, she was Hungarian, we lived in the same refugee camp. Her name was Christina. Blond hair goodlooking. One day we where holding hands and that was it. My biggest crush 16, still havent recovered

Guhaad I KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. I am in more or less the same situation. I can not help but ladies misuderstand me every lady i meet thinks I sweet-talking her. It is not that I want something it is I just can not help myself and it’s my nature. I am with this girl and It started with me just being me and she fell for it and declared her love for me. I did not love her, but I agreed. We men rarely say no. It felt good this whole being wanted thingy, good for the ego. And I think you couldn’t say no because she didn’t give you any grounds for rejection just like me. -She is clearly a fun person -She is good looking (at least your not complaining about her looks) -She wants you (come on how many women do really want you for you?) Can you imagine you and her married with kids? Is she the wivey type? hmmmm could that be your problem? So to continue my story, I realized she was leading our relationship and I was the passenger. Although it felt good, my nature didn't like it. I like to lead. I want to be in control. I want to choose my women, not my woman choosing me (hunting is good). I want to decide whether I want her or not and decide where we are heading. Her loving is clouding my judgement and its making me feel nervous especially when she talks about scary things like kids or marriage or future. Anyhow the ladies reading this should not misunderstand me or think that it’s wrong to talk about those things but those things make us men feel nervous. So the problem is she loves me, I like her and wouldn’t mind spending time with her but I want to be in charge of the relationship and with being in charge or leading comes responsibility. I don't know if I can take those responsibilities. I don't know if I will ever love her like she loves me and that’s messed up. Your problem my bro, just like mine is because you do not want to make a choice. MAKE THE CHOICE, DO YOU WANT TO BE WITH HER? IF SO CAN YOU EVER LOVE HER LIKE SHE LOVES YOU? Or do you want to have FUN? If its fun your looking after, tell her (hehehehe like that’s easy) if you want to make it deeper meaning relationship then go for it. But whatever you do be true to your self and remember if you care about her in anyway be honest with her. If you choose to be honest she might hate you temporarily but in the long run forgive you and always respect you. If you mess this up you and her are over forever. In my situation I have chosen to extend her contract and lately I am warming up to this loving thingy and I feel like returning some. Maybe you should extend the contract and see how it develops and about the whining issues. COME ONNNNNNNNNNNN THEY ALL WHINE AND IF YOU THINK THAT SHE MIGHT BE A LITTLE CRAZY. WELL ALL WOMEN ARE. TRUST ME BRO. I NEVER MET A WOMAN THAT’S 100%. It’s their nature, in our eyes their sensitivity seems like there is something wrong with them. I dated enough to know that most women are like that. They are just emotional, oversensitive, start fights over whatever whine and hate themselves (Some of the TIME not all the time ) one last thing: "'in arinteenu saameyso shaqada iyo shaqaalaha'" Are you ashamed of her? Or do you have another sweety on the side? because shaqada iyo shaqaalaha do not matter, unless your work prohibits a relationship between employees.

Mr. Red Sea, I recognize your attempt at being funny and I sincerely applaud it. What episode of history are we revisiting? Are you claiming that the points brought forward by this report are irrelevant? Because the points brought forward in this report are the foundations of the whole Sland myth. And if they are irrelevant then Sland is also irrelevant. So choosing not to discuss those points just like many other compatriots of yours only makes it clear that issue of secession can not be defended intellectually.

Dear readers, Everyone is taking this discussion somewhere else. We are here to discuss • Why a certain part of Somalia has the ‘right’ to secede while others don’t. • Whether secession will solve all the problems • And the alternatives to secession. T Ayoub The Majority of the people in many provinces of Somalia voted against that constitution because it was flawed however in 1963 a new constitution was adopted. The people of North Western Somalia did not vote against the constitution because they where against the union. They voted against it because the constitution was wrong. The rejection of the constitution did not mean the rejection of the union. Rahima, first of all you are recognizing the people of the North West of Somalia as a different people, people who are not Somalis. Let me reassure you THEY ARE SOMALIS. They are Somalis just like me because it’s my region; they are Somalis just like the rest of us. If you want peace as you are claiming why ignore the other peaceful territories of Somalia. Why don't you in your infinite wisdom say? HEY I WANT A PEACEFUL SOMALIA, and the way forward in brining about a peaceful SOMALIA is uniting the peaceful regions of the country and setting up an administration in those region and administration that is fair and that has learned the lessons from the Somali Republic. An Administration that unites people and not divide or in some cases but an international border between brotherly people. Why say ‘The SOUTH’ a meaning less word or the others have to clean up their house. I am sorry but we all live in the same house. No matter how hard some people try to divide us. After the war broke out in Mogadisho Somalia did not have to disintegrate. If there were any wise leaders this would not have happened, many regions where peaceful. A national government could have been formed in those regions. Many of us Somalis always opt for the lazy solutions. I would like to understand why it is that you do not wish for better, do not hope for better and if you do why is it that you do not back it. Why are you so willing to give up on our homeland? I read through the lines and in you I see a person who has lost hope in the good of her people. As I said before bringing peace about in Somalia and uniting the Somalis is hard, but it’s not impossible. Uniting the Somalis today might be hard but IT IS NOT WRONG, to the contrary IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Mr. Red Sea, Abdilahi Yusuf and his TFG or the wadaads or the warlords or Pland do not matter to me. The matter most important to me is situation in the North West region. Why because it’s my land, that’s why, I do not want any opportunistic group dividing my country in its hour of need. And the issue of the secession is also one that hits me on personal levels. What I am asking of you or the people of the North West is not to surrender to the likes of Abdilahi Yusuf. What I am asking you is why surrender to division and to secession? What I am asking is what’s wrong with UNITY? Why are those people against unity and are for secession? If the situation in parts of Somalia (The triangle of death) is bad. That is not a reason to secede. If you say that we Somalis are clans and that every clan has to decide his or her own fate, I can understand. But I do not agree with it. If you say you are for a peaceful united Somalia then why make ultimatums, why do the rest of us have to jump through hoops just to achieve unity? If you are sincere about unity you would not make any ultimatums you would just like me say the situation is bad and if we work together we can make it better. So first you need to stand for unity only then can we look at the true problems. We can not solve our problems if we are not united. UNITED WE ARE STRONG, DIVIDED WE FALL

And the sillence continues.

Dear Mr. Red Sea, Are you reading what I am writting? You are making way too many assumptions. I am not pro-abdilahi yusuf or pro any warlord or pro-wadaad. It might seem strange to you. But I believe in Somalia and I believe in our people. As you have rightly concluded I am from Hargeysa and it is my hometown, but today I can not be proud of my town for obvious reasons. Although it is my town I am not welcome because of tribalism and you can not deny that clan discrimination does exist there. I know the good old days and I know there are good people and there are bad people and I am not judging the population of a city or a region for the acts of few. I am against the secession and being against the division of Somalia does not mean that I hate my people or I hate my hometown. It means I disagree with those political views. To make things simpeler for you I will just list few things that I believe in. 1. A united, strong and prosperous Somalia 2. A unitery state in Somalia ( So I am against the TFG on the grounds that federalism will not work for us) 3. I am against the 4.5 formula ( we are citizens of a country, we are individuals, 4.5 will also create more division) 4. I am for democratic Somalia ( So me and the wadaads are no friends on that front) 5. I believe that without justice there will be no peace (so all warlords should be hanged), all property returned and all clans should make peace and we should find out the true causes of this civil war. 6. I believe in a Somalia where people are not judged on their clan but on their ability. So tell me, why am I so wrong or why is it hard for you to believe that some of us truelly believe in peace, justice and in brotherhood among our Somali people. [QB] Islam is pro unity, what unity? [QB] Hmmm are you denying that islam stands for unity? Please tell me that I misunderstood you. And explain what you meant.

Mr. Red Sea, You accuse me of being pro-Somaliwayn as if that is a crime. I ask you what is better then an ideal that stands for the unity of my Somali people. An ideal that our forefathers have fought for and died for, an ideal whose biggest hero's were Northerners. As a Hargeysawi I hear the stories of the heroic efforts of my people from the North West of Somalia during the war against Ethiopia. The day that I was born the Ethiopian air force was bombing Hargeysa. The acts of sacrifice of my people can not be belittled. You may think that discrediting the Somaliwayn ideal will help your agenda, but to contrary my brother you are only demonising the patriotic efforts of millions of Somalis who have done everything possible for the freedom of their brothers and sisters still held captive by black colonialists. The hardships that our people endured for their struggle to unite our land can not be denied. You are not helping your cause by attacking Somalia in all its glory and denying us our rightful history. Somaliland can not be compared with NFD or Western Somalia or with Djibouti. Several Somali governments have fought for the NFD and Western Somalia and the Somali claim will always exist as long as there are true Somali patriots around. In the case of Djibouti, you do know that the population of Djibouti consists of Afar and Somalis right? Djibouti would not have gained independence if the Somali claim was not dropped. So it was immoral to hold to a claim that meant that our brothers and sisters in Djibouti would suffer longer at the hands of the colonials. Somaliland opted to be a part of the Republic of Somalia. Somaliland was not forced or attacked; the people of the North in their wisdom during those early days of our nation have opted for unity. As it says in our first constitution: ONE UNION FOREVER. So convince me why Somaliland should secede? What is the reason? (The British colonized us is not an argument) WHY SECEDE? We are Somalis and I know the real reason, I just want to see what you make out of this question ïŠ The issue of Abdilahi yusuf or the courts is irrelevant to this discussion.

Dear Rahima, You talk about Islamic values and the need for unity in Islam. I can follow you that far but then you start talking about dividing the country as a last minute miracle to safe some of the Somali people from a barbaric civil war, not realizing that this move is actually starting a new civil war. You have decided to ignore or downplay major issues that are relevant to our discussion. Two regions out of the 5 are fiercely opposed to this secession and there have been already fights over this issue. The population controlling 40% of the land mass of the would be Somaliland are against this endeavour. You can not deny this. A fact is that as we speak there are two armies facing each other ready to battle this issue out. There would be no need for a war if this secession was approved by all segments of the population of Northern Somalia or the vast majority of that population as you are claiming. Secondly you are claiming that the rest of Somalia is in civil war and that only Sland is peaceful. Do you really believe that? Is Pland not a part of Somalia and is it not peaceful? Are the central regions not a part of Somalia and are they not peaceful? These regions are peaceful. 10 out of the 18 Somali provinces are peaceful and are at the same stage of development. Hargeysa can not claim to be more peaceful the Bosaso today. Burco can not claim to be more peaceful then Laas Caanood. Borame can not claim to be more peaceful then Gaalkacyo. The economic developments, the infrastructure and health care are all on the same level in these cities and regions. The biggest problem in Somalia is the so called triangle of death between Mogdisho, Baydhabo and Kismayo. Now that you know that most regions are peaceful just like the North West of Somalia. That most regions are as well developed as the North West of Somalia and that they have local administrations that serve the people. What is the point of secession? What good would it do? The rest of Somalia is holding no one back. Every region can develop at its own pace. What can Somaliland gain with independence that it can not gain with its fellow Somalis? . Our secessionist brothers are running out of arguments. • Islam = pro unity, so they can not use religion as an excuse. • Legality of the issue= British Somaliland and Italian Somalia choose this union together. One party can not just say that they are leaving the union without the others consent. • The issue of the Dhul-bahante: they never signed a treaty with the British and where never colonized, so their land is theirs and has never belonged to the British Somaliland protectorate. So the secessionists can not claim these lands. • If some of the clans of Northern Somalia want to secede why do they need to claim lands of people who rather are a part of the Republic of Somalia? • The argument that most of Somalia is in civil war and that only Sland is peaceful and 'democratic' is erroneous if not a blatant lie. So why can't the leaders or Sland make peace with their fellow Somali brothers from the peaceful regions? As I said earlier 10 out of the 18 provinces are peaceful, more than half of the Somali population lives in those regions. If the leaders of Sland have the interest of the Somali people at heart or at least some of them what is wrong with making peace and what is so attractive in secession? Well I can only think of one thing and that is that there would be one clan that would form the numerical majority in Sland. And that they would forever rule. The promise of Somaliland is that of a weak mini-state, dominated by one clan, with its only mean of survival being international aid money, characterized clan discrimination and internal strife. So at the end it comes down to power, greed and clan exactly the same reasons why the Somali Republic failed.

lol@MMA, sxb kaftankiina meel ayuu kaa maray. But I would gladly work as a dalwade, ama dadkiisa jecel. Guulna waligeed Soomaali kama dheera so sxb ha ku xadgudbin dadkeena. Dhibaatada aan maanta ku jirno yeen ku ilawsiin in aan nahay umad taariikh dheer, nahayna umad sharaf leh. Dhibaatooyinka maanta wadankeena haysta yeen ku indha tirin. Qalbigaaga u banee wanaag kana fogee walaac. DALKA DADKA DIINTA

lol@MMA, sxb kaftankiina meel ayuu kaa maray. But I would gladly work as a dalwade, ama dadkiisa jecel. Guulna waligeed Soomaali kama dheera so sxb ha ku xadgudbin dadkeena. Dhibaatada aan maanta ku jirno yeen ku ilawsiin in aan nahay umad taariikh dheer, nahayna umad sharaf leh. Dhibaatooyinka maanta wadankeena haysta yeen ku indha tirin. Qalbigaaga u banee wanaag kana fogee walaac. DALKA DADKA DIINTA

Dear Qudhac, You are more then welcome contribute to this discussion, but I would like to ask you to contain your impulses. SOL prides itself as a forum for all Somali people who would like to exchange their ideas and have fruitful discusions on issues that affect us all. Please use this forum to express yourself everyway possible as long as you refrain from drugotory remarks. I am looking forward to your contributions to this tread. Thank you

Dear Rahima, On the point of the ummah, its irrelevant to this argument, lets leave it at that On the other issues however:) Quote: "I get the argument, but for other regions, really it is their choice no? I don’t think it’s right, but at the same time since we have bigger problems I see it as a non-issue at this point in time. I’m not sure if I can make it any clearer [Confused] I am confused too, I really don't get what your saying. I dont want to speculate but I just can not help myself. Are you saying although you know that the secession is wrong and that the people are against it, its still ok to secede? I am now of the opinion that you are not being true to your religion. You are contradicting your religion. You say that the dismemberment of a muslim nation is ok while you don't look at the other alternative ways of healing the wounds of the nation. If Somalia was a patient and you where a docter and the leg of Somalia was infected and simple anti-biotics would solve the issue you would opt for amputaion just because its better then the current situation? why don't you look at the alternatives before you draw radical conclusions?

Wow, I have never agreed with so many people on this forum Mr.Red Sea your kind words, your brotherlyness and your respect for fellow Somali & muslim brothers and sisters have touched me deeply. Your views are refreshing and I welcome them. I my short live I have seen allot and met many people. One of the funniest people I have ever met tried to convince me that there was a differnece between the so-called reer sland and reer xamar and that they are differnet on many levels. To teh point that they are two distinct peoples. For example reer somaliland call an egg (beed) while reer 'xamar' call it (ukun). with this example the brother tried to convince me that our languages are different so we do not have one language. And culturally we are different because we were colonized by teh British ( I deny this, we were never colonized) and they were colonized by the italians.....hmmm try to argue with that:) To this day I do not get why the term reer xamar is applied for all non-isqs. Your ideas are refreshing when compared with the simplistic views of the over zealous if not exentric soldiers of the Sland cause. My question to you is ina'adeer. What is your view on Somali unity? If we Somalis are as you have already said, brothers, cousins, uncles and are all inter linked, that we have the same faith, the same culture, the same physical traits, the same language and a shared history. Why would it be wrong to have a state for us all, a state that is just. A state in which we are all equal participants. I agree with you on your point on the lack of good leadership. Us Somalis need visionary leaders that give us hope, that show us the right direction, leaders that have the Somali peoples intrest at heart. Traditional leaders have inspired many of us and have shown that our Somali traditions are the way forward for us. On your point of the occupation of SOOL by Pland, well what should I say? let me ask you a question....what is your view on the Sland Soldiers that have come beyond caynabo? Why don't all clan militias stay in their own regions since we are all brothers, cousins and uncles.

Thank you for your reply Mr.Red Sea, you have provided me with information that I did not have before. Yes we are all motivated by peronal gains. Nothing altuiristic about most peoples actions, your actions on this forum are also motivated by personal ideas and gains just as are mine. As you have already said the author of this article has some points. We are not here to judge wether he should be trusted of not, we are here to look at wether his points are correct or not. If they are wrong it is not hard to disprove them. So far it seems that he is not far from the truth. As you have already said he has allot of experience in Somali politics, he has been a part of the SNM and he knows both sides of the story. So now that we have agreed on that, why don't we look at the content Maybe we will find lies, errors or anything that would mean that he is wrong. If not then this means a huge blow to the virtual reality that is called Sland Thank you

Well Rahima bitterness all over huh? Ok if you don't care then why bother us? I think you care, i think you have a biggggg heart and don't want to be hurt. Anyhow. Disputed regions? There is nothing disputed here. Somalis are clans, you should have realized that by now. All clans have borders so we know where one clan ends and the other begins, so there is nothing disputed. You are suggesting the division of Somalia while not looking at the conflicts that that would start. This might seem like an easy solution today but tomorow when the wars start and the 'peaceful' north starts burning it will be the fault of people like you who don't think things through. Look at the advantages and the disadvantages. Just because its hard doesnt make its wrong. Yes today we might seem far away from a prosperous, peaceful Somalia where justice previals but if we do not take the first steps and confront this evil in our midst then we will never reach our goal. Stop this intellectual lazyness please and work and fight for those things that unite us and against all things that hold us back, that hold us hostage that make us hate each other. I have never been fan of the so called umma, the umma has been the number one excuse for the cowards. It is a shield that they always hide behind. Umma this Umma that, I am sorry but what is this umma your talking about? Us Somalis are a part of the Ummah in a religious sense, we have never been a part of the umma in any other way. I have come across so many brothers and sisters that appear to be normal on the surfice but when you engage with them, they do not want to talk about Somalia because Somalia does not exist for them. For them the idea of Somalia is wrong because Somalia is a Nation State and in their beliefs a nation state is against Islam. They say they want to give their energy for uniting the ummah yet they do not want to start with their own people. They expect that one day magically all the muslim world will unite and everything will be alright.WRONG. Allot struggle will go before that. Today we are further away from uniting the umma then ever before. It is time that us Somalis wake up and smell the fish. there about 20something arab countries with moderate economies, with one language, with allot resources why don't they unite first. Why should we let our people suffer while we wait for an ummah? For the sake of the argument if you say you are for a united Umma why are you so eager to divide Somalia? You say you have no problem with Ethiopia if Ethiopia was a muslim country. So it does matter to you who opresses you. As long as its a muslim its ok? are you saying that? So for example you would rather be a slave to a muslim then to a christian, but then WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE A SLAVE? If Somalia becomes occupied WE BECOME SLAVES. My position is clear. 1 united Somalia comprimising of all the Somali regions of Africa. My ummah are my Somali brothers and sisters.If achieving this goal means 10 other wars so be it. What happend to the once proud Somalis, cowardic is the order of the day. Everyone is afraid of something, since when did we became afraid of everything. It seems like Somalis with cigaal shidaad syndrome have taken over, I think Somalia P-baa ku kacday, bac baa ku dhagtay. Dear Rahima I understand your frustrations but your arguments are all over the place. In my previous posts I have already made clear why it is that I am against Sland and why I know it will fail. Wether it is recognized or not it will fail. Just like Somalia has failed and all the other mini-states will fail. The mistakes of Somalia will be repeated in all of the other mini-states. Sland had 2 clan wars already that have costed the lives of countless people. And another clan war between Pland and Sland. The hate and anymosity runs so deep it would scare you. Between Some clans disputes that are pre-colonial still have to be settled. Anyways its not hard predicting Somali politics always bet on war.

MMA where do I sign, I will be your guulwade on this issue

MMA where do I sign, I will be your guulwade on this issue

The internal position of the warlords of 'Somaliland' is bad thats why they need to create a diversion. The warlords from the triagle cities face allot of difficulties. 1. The SNM rebellion 2. The unfair distribution of power and wealth within the area and the clans 3. The corruption, nepotism and mismanagemnet of aid money intended for the poor by the current regime. 4. The stealing of 'police' salaries 5. The Islamic radicals of Burco that are stirring 6. The rampant unemploymentin within the region. 7. The economic catastrophe that this warlord regime has created by alienating all its neighbours. (Djibouti, SSC,Oga-denia,and even Yemen) thats why once bussy Berbera harbour operates way below capacity while Bosaso is getting richer everyday. Well what better way to extend their rule then by starting a war They are not foolish enough to start a war but they will keep spitting venom and keep the people of the region on the edge. The warlord regime of triangle cities has a carrot and a stick. Carrot= recognition and after that EVERYYYYYYTHING WILL BE ALRIGHT Stick= remmember 1988 how we where slaughtered if we give them another chance they will kill us all, because of what we also did to civilians from other clans in 1988 and 1991. So I can not blame the poor civilians of the triangle cities. They are held hostage.

Rahima sis although I understand your frustration, I can not understand that you are unwilling to see the basics of this argument. 1.) Divding Somalia will result in rivaling weaker states that are poxy colonies for Ethiopia just as Pland and Sland are today. 2.) The resources needed for the survival of these ministates are limited, far more limited then they would be in a united Somalia, which will lead to nepotism,corruption, mis-management and the rule of CLANS yes ( sub sub sus clan). 3.) Clans do not stop anywhere. Its starts at Somalia. Then its Clan A, Clan B, and Clan C Clan A is subdivided into Clan A-1, Clan A-2, Clan A-3 Clan A1 is subdivided into Clan A-1a, Clan A-1b,, Clan A-1c The same goes for Clan B and C. The divisions will not stop until you get to the last individual. If we are to follow your advice these divisions will have to continue and everyman or woman should have his or her land. For the Somali clans it is 'peace in wartime and warring in peacetime' Today the mini-states might seem to be holding the peace but this is because they are in the 'war state of mind' the moment they feel at ease they will turn on themselves. That is the nature of the clan. 4.) If Sland can seccede from The Republic of Somalia then Sland can be subdivided into even smaller states. Self determination is not a right that applies only for some people but for all people. The arguments of the pro-seccsionist camp do not hold water, they are stuck on the old British Somaliland colonial borders. They are mimicing a state, but we all know that this mini state is build on hate, self pity and discrimination. If a citezen from the North of The Republic of Somalia is not welcome in his home town where his family have lived for generations it shows you that this is nothing but a clan state and clan states have no future.

Are you talking clans sis? hmmmm so are you saying that SL is a clan entity? and that people from certain clans have no rights on talking about it? Please make your points clear. If you are saying that Sland is a clan entity do other clans have the right to have their own 'states'and to secede from the Somali Republic? or to secede from the hypothetical Sland? How does one acquire the citezenship of the hypothetical Sland if birthrights do not count.