Asxabul_kahf The ignorance is all yours and the ones that are stopping us from having an open discussion. Sometimes the censoring can go out of control. Arabism is not Islam and we should seperate the two. We are Somalis and we are muslims. So this whole Arabization is wrong. First they started with our names, with 98% of all Somali names being Arabic ones and most of those names are not even Islamic, just Arab. Now they want to change our dresscode and our Somali script. Soon the only language at schools will be Arabic. We should resist these Pro-Arab fanatics. The ICU should distance itself from this Arabism. The ICU should stay a Somali-Islamic organization.

calm down people, damn why are you people so short tempered? BREATHE!

They want to trap Hezbollah, then get in with ground troops in and clean it up, just like 1982. Just replace PLO with Hezbollah. This will start a new Lebanese civil war. Unless the Lebanese govenment falls and they get a new Pro-Syrian government. That will allow the Syrian troops back in. Or maybe Israel wants to neutralize both lebanon and Syria. Hmmm this can get very very ugly. It will be ugly for the Arabs, but it can also get ugly for the Zionists. If Lebanon and Syria become failed states because of this war, the jihadists will get an opportunity in those countries and those guys will not hesitate in taking Israel out. The Lebanese and Syrian govermnets want to kling to power, but the jihadists don't care about anything except the paradise in the herafter. This will be beautifull. Is it me or is the west working hard on creating Islamist states and empowering these groups? because everything they do seems to be encouraging these people. I think teh west wants to create an enemy. They need an enemy.

Viking, I understand your arguments although I think you are wrong in perceiving Arabic influence as benign and in some cases desirable; I understand where you are coming from and that Islam is your main justification. But our religion recognizes the different nations of the world and their customs. Yes there are universal Islamic rules that all believers should follow. I agree with that 100%. We should not have customs that are contradictory with our Islamic faith. However there are many customs that we Somalis have that that are not against Islam and I am suggesting that we keep those customs. Instead of throwing everything that is Somali away and replacing them with Arabic ones or western. I am not against Islam; I am against Arabism and the Arabization of our people, language and culture. I am also not in favour of these western values. We Somalis should stick to our Somali and Islamic values. The moment things went wrong was when we tried to be like others. When we wanted to become like they are in Aden or we said we that democracy or scientific socialism will solve all our problems.. Or the funny jokes of federalism, with voices coming from all directions yelling. ‘We want states, like America’ ‘No, like Germany’…or some saying no the ‘Swiss’. Why are we always looking at others and their cultures and systems? Why do we lack the confidence in our abilities? What is wrong with our culture that we need to abandon it or mimic other cultures and their values? We are Somalis and nothing will work or us unless it’s Somali. Originally posted by Viking: The schizophrenia doesn't stem from anything other than lack of written pre-Islamic history. We have an oral tradition and with this comes mutations and alterations of narrations. [/QB] I do agree with you on this one, so isn’t it time that we investigated our history and created the foundations of the New Somalia with that history. It is time that we rhymed our past, present and future. It my opinion it is time for the creation of the Somali myth that rhymes our past glory, our present struggle and our future promise. We as Somalis should have a common goal. There are small differences but there are goals that unite us all and there is a history that binds us. The common interest should outweigh everything else. It might at times seem that my arguments are all over the place, but I am talking from one point of view and that point of view is that I believe that we should look into Somali culture for the solutions. That we protect our language and culture from foreign interference and that we protect our land and liberate the occupied territories. That we create a new Somalia that is totally Somali, in every aspect of life. When I say Somali, I mean Somali-Islamic values. (It might seem familiar, and very Pan-Somalist, but I think we should take it ever further) By the way I liked your piece on Somali etymology.

Mr. Red Sea, Your right ‘Hadal Haamo ma buuxsho’. Ilaahayso kuwii wax isu qabta un ayuu wax la qabtaa. The ICU’s moves are positive in inshalah they will bring peace to our land and unite us all. However in my opinion many pro-secessionists are supporting the courts nowadays because they would to see the Somalis in the Death triangle to suffer more and the war to continue so that it would it help their bid for secession. This animosity to our Somali brothers will not be forgotten and it is harming the solidarity among the Somali people, not only because we are from the same nation but also as Muslims we should wish no harm on each other. Originally posted by ThePoint: 'They' are the people of Somaliland, northwest Somalia whatever you wanna call it. The point is you can disagree with secession and wish Somalis well. The other point is - debate that keeps coming back to the same hangups becomes futile and the wise person would agree to disagree :rolleyes: [/QB] The point- it’s either we debate this issue and we as brothers and come to a fair conclusion or we fight each other to death. There is no middle ground here. So there will be no agreeing to disagree. This situation will not forever stay like this, in a statemate; either we the people of the North West will choose for peace, unity and coexistence or we will go down together. If the alternative to dialogue and discussions is war then is it not worth talking this issue to death, then fighting each other to death?

The Point- are we as a people not worthy of having our own culture that’s unique to us or should we be happy with taking other peoples customs while ignoring our traditions? What makes us different, what makes a Somali a Somali? Is it not our culture, language and history? If we choose to ignore these 3 and loose them are we still Somalis? What makes an Arab an Arab? An Englishman English? Or a Somali Somali? Yes cultures change or evolve, but they evolve from a certain base. Uprooting the elements on which our culture is based or abandoning them all together, will only create more problems for us in the form of identity crisis. Like Bob Marley said, "you need to know where your coming from to know where you going" Picking and mixing cultural traits that you will think will be beneficial to you is one thing (pasta-Chinese), but abandoning the culture al together is another thing. Do you see the Italians wearing Chinese clothes? Or using a Chinese word in every sentence and not even recognizing that that word has foreign roots. We Somalis as a race are an old race and we have a civilization of our own, instead of denying our roots and history, we should investigate and take pride in what is ours. We should take pride in Axmed Guray, just like English make us sick with Lord Nelson, we should take pride in Sayd Muhamed Abdulah Xasan, just like the Dutch make us crazy with Willem of Orange, and we should take pride in Xawo Tako for her bravery. We should take pride in our literature instead of proving our literacy with how many western or Arab books we have read. These people are promoting their cultures, why shouldn’t we promote ours? Why don’t we sell them Ismaciil Mire instead of them selling us Shakespeare? Not seeing this cultural imperialism that is coming from all sides or ignoring it is foolish. One might wonder what he or she can do. Well for starters learn the Somali language and if you do speak Somali then try to speak pure Somali language without any foreign words. After that go and explore the Somali literature.

The Arabs are also trying to rob two great military victories from us. The first being the claim that the great Somali Commander who conquered Abyssinia Axmed Guray was one of them and of course claiming that it was they who have beaten the Americans in the battle of Mogadishu (claims by Osama). Why do they need to claim our victories? That saying was so true. "Victory has many fathers, while defeat is an orphan"

The point- on the issue of the million examples. It was a reply to Vikings comment on the adoption of Western culture by Somalis, There are million examples of cultural traits there where originally associated with Arabs that are now being introduced or are fully accepted as Somali customs. You don’t have to look far for it and if you can not see it then it means that you have accepted those customs as your own and no longer see them as ‘alien’. Northerner- please write that book on the Barre’s regimes campaign for the eradicating Islam from Somali life. Originally posted by Viking: There are forces that would like the SOmali people to be far from Islam as much as possible. The lates evidence in this is the funding of the warlords by the Americans [/QB] Yes Viking there are those forces and I would like to add the missionaries that list who are trying to win souls in Somalia, Somali refugee camps in Kenya and Ethiopia and even in the west. Yes there are such forces. There are also the forces fuelling our civil war (Westerners, Africans and Arabs) who all are the enemies of Somalia and are after their own interests and not the interests of the Somali people. Yes the western or American cultural imperialism is hitting the whole world with equal force. The problem in Somalia is that there are two cultural imperial forces competing for us, namely the Arab and the Western. In my opinion they are equally dangerous since they both have one mission and that mission is the destruction of the Somali culture and replacing it with theirs. Who ever wins, it will be us Somalis who will loose, unless we do something about this. Opting for Arab culture or regarding Arab culture as benign in comparison with the Western culture would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. In my opinion the Arab culture is more dangerous to us as Somalis then the western culture. This is mainly because this culture is being pushed down our throats with the excuse that it is Islamic. The western culture is alien and incompatible with our ‘dhaqan’ and it can be dealt with a relative ease compared with Arab culture which is more sensitive. We as Somalis should protect our culture and language, because the day we loose our SOMALI culture and language is the day that we as a nation have lost our identity. Today you hear some people say that we are ‘Arabs’ while others are saying that we are ‘Africans’ this schizophrenia come from the identity crisis that we are facing today. We have to look deeper in ourselves. It is time for reflection. Who are we and what is our place in the world? I as me would rather be a first class Somali then a second class Arab or a cheap imitation of a Westerner. Somaliness and being Muslim is not a contradiction. Saying that I want my language pure does not make me less of a Muslim. Keeping my culture and respecting my heritage makes me a better person, leaving my culture is the way to mental enslavement if not the destruction of our people. Frantz Fanon – “I ascribe a basic importance to the phenomenon of language.... To speak means to be in a position to use a certain syntax, to grasp the morphology of this or that language but it means above all to assume a culture, to support the weight of a civilizationâ€. With this quote I would like to illustrate that with each Somali word that is replaced with a new alien word (mostly Arab) would mean us loosing a bit our culture. Every word has a deeper meaning and carries our history. We Somalis are an oral society, our history has been transmitted to us through our language, not seeing the dangers that Arabism poses to our culture would be highly irresponsible. We should be fighting all attacks on us and we should fight back with our culture and re-examine our history. Our history did not start with the colonials; we are an ancient people with an ancient civilization. We Somalis are unique.

Originally posted by ThePoint: I wish them well and inshallah I hope they will reunite willingly with the rest of the country.?! The point who is this 'they'? I as a Northerner have a say in this and in my opinion the secession is wrong, are you saying that my opinion does not count? And why should I or the likes of me wish the secessionists well, while they are clearly thinking about their interest alone, should I not think of my interest as well? The issue is not up to the secessionists alone. It is up to all the stakeholders in the matter. So that would mean all of us Northerners in the first place, then all Somalis, then the region. Thinking that only one group has a say in this and that that group are the secessionists would be faulty and very dangerous for us all.

Viking your arguments on Somali culture are valid, however we can find another million examples of the Arabization of our culture. It is not a secret that there are forces that would like to see the Somali culture and language disappeared and replaced with an Arabized one. One of those groups is the group whose link I have posted in the previous post. Somali Youths opting for western culture are doing this by ‘choice’ and not because the West is interfering with out culture like the Arabs are under the disguise of Islam. And I think that you are very wrong when you suggest that Somalis think that ‘Western’ culture is superior to Arab culture, please back this claim up with evidence. A question, aren’t the Arab youths not doing the same thing, Listening to 2pac and reciting all hip-hop lyrics and are their weddings not the same as the western ones? I believe that Salah meant that religion is a personal affair and that there should be no state interference between an individual and his or her religious practice and that the state should be fair to all forms of practice. I would like to raise one point. In Islam the worship is between god and the believer and there should be no intermediary. It is the believer that is submitting to Allah swt. It is god who will judge us in the hereafter for our deeds. There should be no human meddling in the worship of Allah. Or no human judging our deeds and saying whether we are ‘Good Muslims’ or ‘Bad Muslims’ Each individual should have the freedom to worship Allah without any pressure from any group. After all Islam is the true way and the true way will never be deserted as long as it’s illuminated, if there are forces that want to force individuals to pray or to worship Allah swt. it would work counter productive, because if a person is worshipping because they fear prosecution that that is not right and Allah swt. Knows that and another effect would be that people will associate worshipping not with the right path and salvation but with the human enforcers of religion.

Thanks SOOMAAL, I enjoyed reading this article.

Mr. Red Sea, Whether I debate like a 2 year old or like a 70 year old, my arguments are clear. In my opinion the secession will fail under any circumstance and I am basing my argument also on the reality of the ground. The split between the people on the North on this issue is my main argument. Let alone, the illegality of the secession and its immorality. I am also pro-unity under an honest leadership, have you heard me say that I was supporting any dishonest leader? I am not basing anything on theory; I am thinking further then the current situation. One has to think of new solutions and not always depend on that the status quo will stay the same. Things can change if people open their mind up for new ideas, but if people shut them selves out for change, things will forever be the same. So by not thinking forward you are actually keeping things as they are.

Mr. Red Sea,please read what I wrote. I believe that you are jumping to a conclusion without understanding what I wrote. I have also requested from you that you would say in clear words that you are pro-unity and the secession is wrong.

Dear Red Sea, As you can see from the quote below my position on the ICU is clear and it hasn’t changed. Originally posted by me: Gediid the wadaads can liberate all Somali territories according to me. Aways telling the Ethio's to handover Western Somalia was a great moment, the first Somali leader in ages to be that brave. If the wadaads are planning to UNITE all of Somalia. Then why not support them. They are as Somali as any other faction, plus they seem like an attractive option. -United country -Unitary system -Anti-corruption -They would also resist Ethiopian meddling in our affairs -Pro-business -And ruthless when it comes to law enforcement Well the wadaads are not a bad option and they would be a more attractive option if they mixed some more nationalism with that Islamism. And them showing a more diverse face in their leadership would appeal to all Somali groups. I am waiting for their grand plan for Somalia. In your post you have talked about that some regions claim to be more righteous then other regions, I have not conducted a religious census on all the people Somali, but commons sense would say that practicing religion is a personal affair and that a whole region should not be termed anti-religious. However these rumours are not baseless, these rumours are being fuelled by those in the North West who are supporting actions that are anti-Somali and anti-Islamic and that are against our culture and faith. The points I am raising on this issue are. - The denouncing of the Dervish Movement and demonising them, while glorifying the colonial British soldiers and even holding a commemoration for the dead colonials. - The two articles that I have posted on this tread on the Israel issue. - The recent movements towards calling the xabash soldiers who worked with the SNM ‘Mujaahideen’ - Calling the SNM mujahidiin, while this group was far from that and its countless crimes against civilians are still not recognized by a large group of the people in the North West. All these acts put together are painting a picture that the people of the North West are far from our culture and our faith, although this is wrong not many people are protesting against them. You and I are the only people from the North West who have condemned these actions (the pro-Israeli articles), there are many others here but they are keen on supporting these anti-Islamic and anti-Somali views. This can be seen through their deliberate actions in justifying the pro-Israeli articles. Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: [QB] I am only saying that since the whole former Somali republic is currently in chaos except for the Somaliland, Northeast region of Puntland. Then there is no point to really pointing the finger to one region and yes I understand why you are doing it, because it's your home region I do understand that the rest of the country is in chaos, but in my opinion that should be no obstacle for wanting a united country, in my case, I see this civil war a fresh start and that we can rebuild a new Somalia that if for us all. Mr. Red Sea, I would like to hear you say in clear words that you are for the unity of the Somali people and that we are one and the same people and that the secession is wrong.

Mazrui’s visit to Somaliland & His Call for Somalistan Nation! Faisal Roble July 15nd, 2006 (Wardheernews) So far, we knew only names like Iqbal, Pham, Matt Brayden and others who write and feverishly lobby in favor of “Somaliland†and its never-ending pursuit for illusive recognition of statehood. Most of these self-aggrandizing lobbyists don’t have the right credentials to do the job. These are neither students of African studies nor specialists on Somalia. They often play on the fear of Westerners visa-vi Islam (see Yasin Ali’s level-headed rebuttal to Mr. Peter Pham’s hyperbolic piece, Wardheernews, July, 13, 2006). The “Somaliland†issue and its impractical secession has become a cottage industry for hitherto unknown individuals. There is no doubt that some of them are retained with consultants’ fee. To borrow a description Cadde Muse of Puntland recently used to describe his own oil consultants and contractors for oil exploration in Puntland, Dr. Pham and his elks are the “Jirri†(scum) of the lobbyist community scavenging on the failed Somalia state. But, Professor Mazrui is a top-notch African Studies Scholar and his position on the case of Somalia can’t be ignored. As such, his visit to the breakaway region of northern Somalia (“Somalilandâ€), March 21 to 23, and his subsequent endorsement mean much in some circles. It may not matter much in terms of immediate recognition for the breakaway region. It says a lot, though, about the passion for sectarian politics in the Diaspora community, especially the secessionist wing. Lobbyists for secession have remarkably done well so far and succeeded to plunge Mazrui into Somalia’s muddy situation. The Pan Africanist Mazrui Professor Mazrui has close affinity with Somalia and many Somalis. He hails from the disenfranchised Swahili speaking people of the coast of East Africa, particularly those in Kenya. As such, his community’s cultural similarities with Southern Somalia' s Bajun, Barwani and other Somalo-Bantu communities run deep. In a rare and short encounter with him at the 1991 African Studies Association (ASA) conference, in Baltimore, Maryland, Mazrui spent a considerable time with us (a group of Somalis). I recall him telling the group the extent to which the Swahili speaking coastal communities in East Africa, including his family, enjoyed for years listening to Asha Abdo's songs in Swahili aired on Radio Mogadishu in the early 1960s. Asha Abdo is a Somali singer who was hired by Radio Mogadishu’s Swahili branch. He recalled the nickname "Malikiya," the queen of songs that is, as she is popularly known among East Africa’s coastal communities. In that encounter, Mazrui did strike a chord with us by the story of “Maliaka†– i.e., our linkage with him and his community. In that encounter, Mazrui never missed an opportunity to praise the Somali people, appreciate their tenacity in the face of merciless colonial rules and their awareness of their culture. He also noted his visits to Somalia when he was drafting his most celebrated book “The Africans, a Triple Heritage.†In it, Mazrui seems to endorse Somali nationalism. He enthusiastically talks about the Western Somali Liberation Front (WSLF) forces and gives them favorable coverage on their offenses against the Ethiopian forces; he pays homage to the Somali women and her participation in the national army. In his other book, “Cultural Forces in World Civilization,†he refers to Hawo Tako as “Somalia’s version of “Joan of Arc.†Hawo Tako was a remarkable woman who had played in the Somalia struggle for independence a similar role that Jamila played in Algeria’s fierce war of independence against France. In the span of 30 or more years, Ali Mazrui has given us a huge body of scholarly work on pan African themes. To appreciate Mazrui’s earlier commitment to Pan Africanism and his recent revisionist position on Somalia’s territorial integrity, one needs to review some of his earlier works. One of Mazrui’s earlier books and his only political fiction “The Trial of Christopher Akigbo,†was fittingly based on Biafra’s war of secession that threatened the existence of the largest and most populous African nation, Nigeria. Ironically, I was encouraged to read this book at UCLA by an older friend (the late Mohamed Abdillalhi Farah, Xasharo, who hails from Borama, northern Somalia, and prematurely died as a staunch unionist in 2002 in Mogadishu). In “The Trial of Christopher Akigbo,†putting aside the sex and romance, which the author flirts with, Mazrui sets up an imaginary court trial of “after-Africa.†In After-Africa, poet Akigbo is accused of betraying the ideals of the people. Presided by the likes of Kwame Nkaruma, Amilcal Capral, Gamal Abdul Nasir, and the forefathers of pan-African nationalism. Mr. Akigbo is charged of a serious seditious crime: The crime committed by a pan-African poet who had abandoned his high ideals in favor of championing the cause of primordial tribal cause. He is given the chance to explain to the court why he chose, at such a critical moment in the nation’s history, Biafra over art and Nigeria, or between being an Igbo over an African artist. Mazrui puts poet Akigbo in the middle of contradicting tides of globalism vs. parochialism, humanism vs. clanism. This early work of Ali Mazrui was followed by several pan-African works, primarily aimed at explaining to the West the African condition, its uniqueness and the murky cultures of tribalism versus nationalism. In his book “The African Condition,†which resulted from a serious of lectures that Mazrui gave to several universities in England, he discusses and educates us on the complexity of Africa, its ambitions and all the insecurities that surround its polities. That complexity is something that Mazrui conveniently brushes aside when he decided to endorse a meaningless secession of northern Somalia. Consider this: In Chapter five of his book, “The African Condition,†Mazrui polemically describes Africa’s cleavages along ethnic, linguistic, religious, and political lines. He blames the British Indirect Rule in Africa for preserving differences and ultimate fragmentation of African societies. However, in his recent speech to the joint houses of Somaliland and to the students at Hargeysa University, Mazrui urged Somaliland leaders to use the Common Wealth Association as a conduit venue to getting British recognition of their secessionist region. In layman’s terms, Mazrui is advising them to play Britain’s colonial patronage since this association is a protégée of England. Mazrui’s contemporary view of yesterday’s forces of evil (colonial rulers) seem to have been reversed as today’s agents of good deeds. He seems to advocate that Britain could be the force of deliverance to the people of “Somaliland.†Only through “transcending fragmentation will Africa increase her capacity for self-development and self-pacification,†wrote Mazrui in the “African Condition.†But, why is he pushing Somalia’s fragmentation is untenable. Is he conveniently forgetting that by fragmenting the Somali society, each side will surely be weaker than when they are united? To wit, would Mazrui apply the same rule to his own Sawahil-speaking minority if Kenya were to take an unfortunate road similar to that of Somalia, or would he work hard to not advocate fragmentation? We have to wait for Kenya’s turn of events to find that out. This is not the first time Mazrui advocated radical ideas that are in total contravention to the national interest of Somalis. In a less known piece that Mr. Mazrui published on the Economist Newsmagazine some time around 1994, when he was a member of the Committee of Eminent African elders, Mazrui directly undermined and sacrificed Somalia and its national interest in his search for a grandiose ideas. In that piece, Mr. Mazrui had advised that Africa be broken into five regions with five power centers. (These powers would be Ethiopia in the east, Nigeria in the west, Egypt in the north, Zaire in the center (Congo) and South Africa in the south.) He recommended that Ethiopia, as regional power, would over see Somalia and Djibouti (another Somali-speaking inhabited region). In which case, Somalia’s both security matters and resources, to mention three of the original greater Somalia, would be under the jurisdiction of Ethiopia. Here in the interest of promoting pan-African unity, he proposes to empower Ethiopia. But, when it comes to Somalia’s territorial integrity, he plays deaf to the cry of the millions of Somalis who still want their country be protected from warlords and radical sectarian politicians. The manner in which he promotes African unity, on the one hand, and Somalia’s disunity, on the other hand, is a typical Mazruian contradiction, which often his critics on the left would like to highlight. Mazrui has once rhetorically called Western countries’ unconditional support for Israel and Apartheid South Africa their condemnation of PLO and ANC as terrorists as double standard. Can one assume that Mazrui’s call for the dismemberment of the Somali nation state (basically a nation with one language, culture and history, not to mention an unprecedented intermarriage among its clans) and his relentless promotion of regional integration and pan-African unity a double standard? Why is Mazrui, who has been a champion of Somali cause, now talking like a post-colonial scholar by endorsing two Somalia, especially when only one clan in the north unilaterally declared secession, despite that such a move is universally opposed by other major clans in the region? Is he doing this because Somalia had bad leadership, both during and after Barre? We may never know his reasons, but the damage is done. Mazrui has many critics from the left as being simplistic and grandiose in his analysis. His recent endorsement of the Somaliland secession would definitely increase the pool of his critics. Alternative to Mazrui’s Revisionism Compare Mazrui’s uncritical and revisionist endorsement of secession within the Africa that is already “fragmented by colonialism to that of his peer’s assessment of African tribal problems, Wole Soyinka*, Africa’s living and only Nobel laureate in literature. In his small but instructive book, “Africa, an Open Sore.†Mr. Soyinka critically evaluates the hardship, which is created by Africa’s meaningless and artificially imposed boundaries. He equates our ethnic problems to an open sore that refuses to heal. He details the meaningless banana republics and the looming civil war around border areas. Unlike Mazrui, Soyinka does not appeal to our former colonial foes, lest they are the ones who left us this painful inheritance of fragmentation and perpetual violence. Neither does he prematurely jump on the easy solution of fragmenting our fragile communities. With great reflections and circumspection, Mr. Soyinka highlights the depth and magnitude of Africa’s divided societies along borderlines and begs for caution. He challenges Africa’s intellectual community to study this problem in light of uniting, not dividing, those communities who have been hurt in the fragmentation which the continent inherited from it colonial foes. Soyinka’s assessment of the African Sore and artificially divided ethnic communities in Africa reads as if he has the Somalis in mind when he describes the pain of divided African societies. In Marzrui’s recent endorsement, we have seen a revisionist scholar with diminishing originality. Albeit, asking half of Somalia to rename itself as Somalistan is a clear indication of Mazrui’s tradition of polemics and uncritical approach to complex issues. What would follow Somalistan in Mazrui’s opinion? Swahilistan, Fulanistan, Hausastan, and hence the balkanization of Africa in religious terms would go on. In Soyinka, we have a noble laureate who invokes critical approach to our pain with the hope of fostering a meaningful unity. Unfortunately, Mazrui chooses the easy route out by endorsing a meaningless secession which would end up fragmenting a Somali society that has already been hurt by artificial multiple borders. Worse, Mazrui shows us an ugly side of realpolitc and instructs the leadership of northern Somalia to seek recognition by appealing to its former colonial masters. Mazrui’s endorsement of the secession of Somaliland could undo his over 30 years of paper trail that mainly promoted pan African themes. But what is more unforgivable is his recommendation to rename half of Somalia as “Somalistan.†One wonder if he would equally rename, say a seceding Sawahil speaking regions of Kenya as “Sawahilstan!†The religious undercurrent in Mazrui’s recommendation to rename the region, as “Somalistan,†is somewhat unsettling. Somaliland has already changed the old secular Somali flag into a Saudi-Arabia-like flag with expressive “Wahabist†emblem. Did Mazrui take the time to talk to Sonyinka’s own friend and Africa’s next potential Nobel winner, Nuradin Farah, who is both a Somali and a noted Africanist to get more of a dose of the clan complexity surrounding the secession issue in Norther Somalia? Not quite so. If he did so, he could have undoubtedly learnt few inside stories about the complexities of the Somali society and the danger of “fragmenting†Somalia further into enclaves. * Soyinka and Mazrui are long time adversaries. In a recent poignantly written op-ed piece, Soyink accuses Mazrui of arrogance and “only-me†attitude. He cites how Mazrui tries to totally discredit the highly acclaimed work of Henry Lewis Gates’ African series on the BBC. I believe most Somalis find comfort in Soyinka and contradictions and confusion in the new Mazrui. Faisal A. Roble E- Mail:Fabroble@aol.com

Qudhac horta hadalka xagee lagugu baray? Cay un ayaad meel walba la taagan tahay. So qudhac please answer these questions and back them up with evidence. - What is the case of the secessionists? - Why would they like to secede? - Give me a reason why there should be a two state solution for the Somali problem. - Is there a reason why the Somali people should be divided? - Is there a clan factor in these issues? - What is the position of Islam in regards to matters of Unity and Division? - Do the secessionists have a legal case? - Is there a chance for a civil war in the north if the secessionists are recognized? - have there been any civil wars between the clans of the North in the past decade and a half and what were the reasons for those civil wars? These are very simple questions; please answer them without any name-callings or other silly remarks. Thank you

Originally posted by Rayaana: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I wonder which part...claiming a heritage that denies them. I dont know that anyone would want to do that.

Qudhac, I hope that you will regain your manhood. You seem to be missing something since you can not write two sentences without making silly remarks. Please do learn how to discuss things. You are doing yourself no justice by talking like this. Rayaana who is this Somaliweyn that you are talking about? Are you not a part of Somaliweyn just as I am? Aren’t we all Somaliweyn? Because Somaliweyn implies all Somalis no matter where they live. And since I am from the North the wars in the South do not change my opinion or the validity of my case. I am a Somali Northerner who is against the secession. So stop this war in the South excuse. I am no alien force coming from far away. I am already a part of the North and me being against secession does not make me a Southerner. Please stop this ignorance of everyone against the secession is a Southerner, in my opinion most Southerners don’t even interfere with our affairs. And when the civil war starts in the North it won’t be Southerners invading the North, but it will be Northerners slugging it out. Didi your name will be left alone

hahahahaaha, MMA dadkan waxba lagama dhaadhicin karo. Meesha aan ka fakarayno iyo meesha ay marayaan isku meel ma aha. Hadii uu ilaahay idmo weyna soo gaari doonaan. Soomaali oo dhan'nah wey isla garanaysaa in aan afkeena ilaalino. Dad badan oo fikrado fiican leh qarankenu wuu leeyahay, Dadkaas un hadii mar un wax qabta lagu dhihi lahaa ama ay mar un tii toosnayd ka shaqaynlahaayeen ama ku kici lahaayeen. MMA, afsoomaaliga toosan maanta meelo lagu qoro ma jiraan? mise cid afsoomaali toosan ku hadashaa maanta ma jirto?

lol@didi, It is because of our laziness that this secessionist lie has gone out of control; their immoral ideas have to be fought on every level possible. The secession is immoral and illegal and impractical. So whatever the secessionists do we need to block it. Like that Somali saying. Laftey qaadaanba ka jabi. The ones propagating these foul ideas need to be fought on every front.

Qudhac meel walba ka naac naaclee, nin rag ah hadii aad ahaan lahayd waad iska kay celin lahayd. You couldn't defend yourself against my arguments and that’s why you have resorted to name-callings. I am enjoying how you are making a fool out of yourself. Your ignorance proves my case. I don't have to do anything, all I will have to do is just wait and see, please continue with your name callings Before I came to SOL I truly believed that the secessionists had a case and an argument, but lately I am thinking is this all they have? You and your likes have proven to me that there is no middle ground in this argument. This is an argument between the righteous and the immoral, the immoral being you Ps. if you have any arguments except name-calling, lies and half truths bring them on.

For the respect to Mr.Red Sea, I will post no longer on this tread.

Djib as if the courts are not pro-unity The courts are more pro-unity then any other force in Somalia. The TFG is thinking of 'federalism' and 4.5 that would legalize the clan divisions, the courts don't even recognize that. The courts are for one thing and that is ISLAMIC SHARIA STATE and a state like that does not accept divisions allong clans only division allong MUSLIMS and NON-MUSLIMS. So the secestionists would be theoretically better of with the TFG who would give them an autonomy. Anyhow who ever wins the secessinists will loose.

Dear Red Sea, I agree with you on many many points and what you have said on your last two posts have assured me of your good intentions and I consider you a friend and a fellow Muslim and Somali brother. One think I must highlight is Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: I have to say you sometimes put words into my mouth. I am in no way think or saying that you are wrong to believe that we as Somalis should be united under one adminstration, infact I think that is very good if we could have. [/QB] Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: I am just waiting for the right leadership in order to consider myself pro unity. As long as people like Yeey are being elected, then I don't see the point of this whole unity thing. [/QB] I understand and I agree with you on that point, but I have to say that one can not be positive towards unity while protecting the divisions. It would be a positive step to denounce the secession all together and to step forward for unity above division. There would be nothing wrong with saying that you are pro-unity although you do not agree with the current leadership as there are millions of other Somalis who are pro-unity while not agreeing with the current leadership. The reason why I say this is that there is no way of influencing the decision of these people unless you participate. One can not say I will sit on the sidelines and wait for the right leadership to emerge and only then will I join. Who knows maybe you are the right leadership, maybe the leader we are waiting for to unite us could be coming from the North West. My brother Red Sea, I am in no way biased towards one entity the reason why I am strongly against the secession is because it affects me personally more then anything else in Somalia today affects me. The North West is my home, it is my house, it is my people, and it is my history, my culture and my life. I am a Somali Qaldaan and I am damn proud of it. If you and I stood next to each other no one would distinguish the difference between us (except that I am better looking I hope). The Somali looks, the same language, religion, the same culture, the same laxoox and sabaayad calool, the same shared history, maybe we even grew up together in the same neighbourhood and if you was born in Hargeysa maybe we where born in the same hospital with the same midwife, so I wonder if you and I cannot be separated by the naked eye and even after some investigation we are still indistinguishable. Why there are some people who want to make us appear alien to one another, who would rather die then to see us two living in the same country. Are they not wrong for searching for petty differences and creating hate where there should be peace? Brother Red Sea, you and I are closer to each other then people would like us to be, the hate fosters and the warmongers don’t want us to open our eyes and see that we are one. ---To Qudhac grow up man; you can not stop making silly remarks, isku xishood ninyahow.---