Mr. Red Sea, With this tread I am trying to discuss 3 issues namely: 1. The SNM betrayed the Somali Nation and the Somali people by collaborating with the enemy of Somalia. 2. The SNM sacrificed and made the people of Hargeysa and Burco suffer for their own selfish gains. 3. The SNM was beaten by the Somali National army and this can be proven by the fact that the day that Mogadisho fell to the USC not one single village was in SNM hands. Point Nr. 1 Did the SNM collaborate with Ethiopia, while Somalia and Ethiopia were in a state of war? My answer to that question is YES and your answer was…… Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: the SNM was using the weapons they had captured from the SNA with the exception of few provided to them by Ethiopia.Which brings me to point out that the SNM was in Ethiopia under its own interest and EThiopia was also benefiting from them,it was we both win type of scenerio Collaborating with the enemy in a time of war is called TREASON and it is punishable by death. The Somali officers conducting the operations against the SNM were fully justified in their actions against the rebel combatants. The officers of the Somali National Army took an oath in which they swore on the holly Koran that they would defend the Somali Republic against all enemies external as well as internal. The SNM delegitimized itself the moment it collaborated with the enemy. If the SNM resisted the dictatorship legitimately and within the boundaries of the law then justice would be on its side today. Point Nr.2 The SNM sacrificed and made the people of Hargeysa and Burco suffer for their own selfish gains. Haygeysa and Burco are major towns if compared with other towns in Somalia. The number of rebels that attacked Hargeya and Burco in May 1988 is estimated at 1500. Do you think it is wise to attack towns the size of Hargeysa and Burco with 1500 men and try to hold it against the Somali National Army. Is it not foolish? Negligent to say the least? Or cold blooded calculated action intended for the radicalization of the North Western population? The dead, destruction and humiliation that the people of the North West faced after May 1988 is the result of this foolish action by the SNM. If the SNM didn’t attack the towns there would be no artillery bombardment of the towns. If they didn’t attack the cities, there would be no refugee crisis in the North West. So maybe its time you started to think critically Mr. Red Sea. The SNM sacrificed the people. The civilian deaths in Hargeysa and Burco after May 1988 was a direct result from the actions of the SNM. Point Nr. 3 The SNM was beaten by the Somali National army and this can be proven by the fact that the day that Mogadisho fell to the USC not one single village was in SNM hands. You said that the SNM were operating in the North with the exception of the major towns, how about villages? which villages were in SNM hands in late 1988? 1989? 1990? Yes I agree with you that the SNM was capable of hit and run attacks in the North West in 1989 and 1990 but it lacked the strength to hold fixed positions, due to the tremendous firepower of the SNA.

How many Muslims have ever won a Nobel prize for a science related subject? Now lets compare it with the Jews. Nobel Prize in Chemistry * Ahmad H. Zewail, 1999 Nobel Prize in Literature * Naguib Mahfouz, 1988 [1] * Orhan Pamuk, 2006 Nobel Peace Prize * Anwar El-Sadat, 1978 * Yasser Arafat, 1994 * Shirin Ebadi, 2003 * Mohamed ElBaradei, 2005 * Muhammad Yunus, 2006 Nobel Prize in Physics * Abdus Salam (arguable because he is Qadiani, 1979 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine * None Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics * None ------------------------------------------------- List of Jewish Nobel Prize winners Nobel Prize in Physics * Alexei Alexeevich Abrikosov, Russia, for pioneering contributions to the theory of superconductors and superfluids (Jewish mother) * Zhores Alferov, Russia, (Jewish mother) * Hans Bethe, US, (Jewish mother) * Felix Bloch, Swiss and US, for his development of new methods for nuclear magnetic precision measurements and discoveries in connection therewith * Niels Bohr, Denmark, for his quantum model of the atom (Jewish mother) * Max Born, Germany, UK and US, for his fundamental research in quantum mechanics, especially for his statistical interpretation of the wavefunction * Georges Charpak, France (Jewish father) * Claude Cohen-Tannoudji, France,(Tunisian-Jewish parents) * Leon Neil Cooper, US, * Albert Einstein, German, later US, for theory of the photoelectric effect * Richard P. Feynman, US, for their fundamental work in quantum electrodynamics, with deep-ploughing consequences for the physics of elementary particles * James Franck, Germany, for their discovery of the laws governing the impact of an electron upon an atom * Ilya Frank, Russia, (Jewish father) * Jerome Isaac Friedman, US, for their pioneering investigations concerning deep inelastic scattering of electrons on protons and bound neutrons, which have been of essential importance for the development of the quark model in particle physics * Dennis Gabor, Hungary, for his invention and development of the holographic method * Murray Gell-Mann, US, for his contributions and discoveries concerning the classification of elementary particles and their interactions" * Vitaly Lazarevich Ginzburg, Russia, for pioneering contributions to the theory of superconductors and superfluids * Donald Arthur Glaser, US, for the invention of the bubble chamber * Sheldon Lee Glashow, US, for their contributions to the theory of the unified weak and electromagnetic interaction between elementary particles, including, inter alia, the prediction of the weak neutral current * Roy Glauber, U.S. physicist, Nobel Prize (2005) * David Gross, US, for the discovery of asymptotic freedom in the theory of the strong interaction * Robert Hofstadter, US, for his pioneering studies of electron scattering in atomic nuclei and for his thereby achieved discoveries concerning the structure of the nucleons * Brian David Josephson, UK, for his theoretical predictions of the properties of a supercurrent through a tunnel barrier, in particular those phenomena which are generally known as the Josephson effect * Lev Davidovich Landau, Russia, for his pioneering theories for condensed matter, especially liquid helium * Leon Max Lederman, US, for the neutrino beam method and the demonstration of the doublet structure of the leptons through the discovery of the muon neutrino * David Lee, US, * Gabriel Lippmann, France, for his method of reproducing colours photographically based on the phenomenon of interference * Albert Abraham Michelson, US, for his optical precision instruments and the spectroscopic and metrological investigations carried out with their aid * Ben Roy Mottelson, US and Denmark,for the discovery of the connection between collective motion and particle motion in atomic nuclei and the development of the theory of the structure of the atomic nucleus based on this connection * Douglas Osheroff, US, (Jewish father) * Wolfgang Pauli, (one non-Jewish grandparent) * Arno Allan Penzias, US, for their discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation * Martin Lewis Perl, for the discovery of the tau lepton * David Politzer, US, for the discovery of asymptotic freedom in the theory of the strong interaction * Isidor Isaac Rabi, US, for his resonance method for recording the magnetic properties of atomic nuclei * Frederick Reines, US, * Burton Richter, US, for their pioneering work in the discovery of a heavy elementary particle of a new kind * Arthur Schawlow, US, (Jewish father) * Melvin Schwartz, US, for the neutrino beam method and the demonstration of the doublet structure of the leptons through the discovery of the muon neutrino * Julian Schwinger, US, for his work on quantum electrodynamics * Emilio Segre, Italy and US, for discovery of antiproton * Jack Steinberger, US, for the neutrino beam method and the demonstration of the doublet structure of the leptons through the discovery of the muon neutrino * Otto Stern, US, for his contribution to the development of the molecular ray method and his discovery of the magnetic moment of the proton * Steven Weinberg, US, for their contributions to the theory of the unified weak and electromagnetic interaction between elementary particles, including, inter alia, the prediction of the weak neutral current * Eugene Wigner, US, Nuclear Engineering Nobel Prize in Chemistry * Sidney Altman, Canada, discovery of catalytic properties of RNA * Christian Anfinsen, US, work on ribonuclease, especially concerning the connection between the amino acid sequence and the biologically active conformation (convert) * Adolf von Baeyer, Germany, for services in the advancement of organic chemistry and the chemical industry, through his work on organic dyes and hydroaromatic compounds (Jewish mother) * Paul Berg, US, for his fundamental studies of the biochemistry of nucleic acids, with particular regard to recombinant-DNA * Herbert Brown, Ukraine, development of the use of boron- and phosphorus-containing compounds, respectively, into important reagents in organic synthesis * Melvin Calvin, US, research on the carbon dioxide assimilation in plants * Aaron Ciechanover, Israel, 2004, for the discovery of ubiquitin-mediated protein degradation * Walter Gilbert, US, contributions concerning the determination of base sequences in nucleic acids * Fritz Haber, Germany, for the synthesis of ammonia from its elements (converted to Christianity) * Herbert Hauptman, US, development of direct methods for the determination of crystal structures * Alan Heeger, US, for the discovery and development of conductive polymers * Avram Hershko, Israel, 2004, for the discovery of ubiquitin-mediated protein degradation * George de Hevesy, Hungary, the use of isotopes as tracers in the study of chemical processes * Roald Hoffmann (1937 - ) American, for theories, developed independently, concerning the course of chemical reactions (1981)[1] * Jerome Karle, US, development of direct methods for the determination of crystal structures * Aaron Klug, Lithuania, development of crystallographic electron microscopy and his structural elucidation of biologically important nucleic acid-protein complexes * Walter Kohn, Austria, for his development of the density-functional theory * Roger Kornberg, US, for his studies of the molecular basis of eukaryotic transcription * Harold Kroto, UK, (Jewish father) * Rudolph Marcus, Canada, contributions to the theory of electron transfer reactions in chemical systems * Henri Moissan, France, for investigation and isolation of the element fluorine, and for the adoption in the service of science of the electric furnace called after him (Jewish mother) * [citation needed]George Olah, Hungary, for his contribution to carbocation chemistry (unconfirmed) * Max Perutz, Austria, studies of the structures of globular proteins * John Polanyi, German-born British Canadian chemist, (1986), (Jewish father), * Viscount Ilya Prigogine, Belgium, contributions to non-equilibrium thermodynamics, particularly the theory of dissipative structures * Irwin Rose, US, for the discovery of ubiquitin -mediated protein degradation * William Stein, US, contribution to the understanding of the connection between chemical structure and catalytic activity of the active center of the ribonuclease molecule * Otto Wallach, Germany, pioneer work in the field of alicyclic compounds * Richard Willstatter, Germany, for his researches on plant pigments, especially chlorophyll Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine * Richard Axel, US, discoveries concerning the celular and molecular organization of the olfactory system. * Julius Axelrod, US, discoveries concerning the humoral transmitters in the nerve terminals and the mechanism for their storage, release and inactivation * David Baltimore, US, discoveries concerning the interaction between tumor viruses and the genetic material of the cell * Robert Barany, Sweden, * Baruj Benacerraf, Venezuela, discoveries concerning genetically determined structures on the cell surface that regulate immunological reactions * Konrad Bloch, Germany, discoveries concerning the mechanism and regulation of the cholesterol and fatty acid metabolism * Baruch Blumberg, US, discoveries concerning new mechanisms for the origin and dissemination of infectious diseases * Sydney Brenner, South Africa, discoveries concerning genetic regulation of organ development and programmed cell death * Michael Brown, US, discoveries concerning the regulation of cholesterol metabolism * Ernst Chain, Germany, discovery of penicillin and its curative effect in various infectious diseases * Stanley Cohen, US, discoveries of growth factors * Gerty Cori, US (born in Prague), discovery of the course of the catalytic conversion of glycogen (born Jewish but converted to Catholicism when she married) * Gerald Edelman, US, discoveries concerning the chemical structure of antibodies * Paul Ehrlich, Germany, for work on immunity * Gertrude Elion, US, discoveries of important principles for drug treatment * Joseph Erlanger, US, for discoveries relating to the highly differentiated functions of single nerve fibers * Edmond H. Fischer, US, (Jewish father) * Robert Furchgott, US, discoveries concerning nitric oxide as a signaling molecule in the cardiovascular system * Herbert Gasser, US, (Jewish father) * Alfred Gilman, US, discovery of G-proteins and the role of these proteins in signal transduction in cells * Joseph Goldstein, US, discoveries concerning the regulation of cholesterol metabolism * Paul Greengard, US, for signal transduction in the nervous system * Robert Horvitz, US, discoveries concerning genetic regulation of organ development and programmed cell death * Francois Jacob, France, discoveries concerning genetic control of enzyme and virus synthesis * Eric Kandel, Austria, for signal transduction in the nervous system * Bernard Katz, Germany, discoveries concerning the humoral transmitters in the nerve terminals and the mechanism for their storage, release and inactivation * Arthur Kornberg, US, discovery of the mechanisms in the biological synthesis of ribonucleic acid and deoxyribonucleic acid * Hans Adolf Krebs, Germany, discovery of the citric acid cycle * Karl Landsteiner, Austria, for discovery of human blood groups * Joshua Lederberg, US, discovered genetic recombination and the organization of the genetic material of bacteria * Rita Levi-Montalcini, Italy, discoveries of growth factors * Fritz Lipmann, Germany, discovery of co-enzyme A and its importance for intermediary metabolism * Otto Loewi, Austria, for discoveries relating to chemical transmission of nerve impulses * Salvador Luria, Italy, discoveries concerning the replication mechanism and the genetic structure of viruses * Andre Lwoff, France, discoveries concerning genetic control of enzyme and virus synthesis * Ilya Ilyich Mechnikov, France, (Jewish mother) * Otto Meyerhof, Germany, for discovery of the relationship between consumption of oxygen and the metabolism of lactic acid in the muscle * Cesar Milstein, Argentina, theories concerning the specificity in development and control of the immune system and the discovery of the principle for production of monoclonal antibodies * Hermann Muller, US, discovery of the production of mutations by means of X-ray irradiation (Jewish mother) * Daniel Nathans, US, discovery of restriction enzymes and their application to problems of molecular genetics * Marshall Nirenberg, US, interpretation of the genetic code and its function in protein synthesis * Stanley Prusiner, US, discovery of Prions - a new biological principle of infection * Tadeus Reichstein, Poland, discoveries relating to the hormones of the adrenal cortex, their structure and biological effects * Martin Rodbell, US, discovery of G-proteins and the role of these proteins in signal transduction in cells * Andrew Schally, Lithuania, discoveries concerning the peptide hormone production of the brain * Howard Temin, US, discoveries concerning the interaction between tumor viruses and the genetic material of the cell * John Vane, UK, (Jewish father) * Harold Varmus, US, discovery of the cellular origin of retroviral oncogenes * Selman Waksman, Russia, discovery of streptomycin, the first antibiotic effective against tuberculosis * George Wald, US, discoveries concerning the primary physiological and chemical visual processes in the eye * Otto Warburg, Germany, (Jewish father) * Rosalyn Yalow, US, for the development of radioimmunoassays of peptide hormones Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel * George Akerlof (2001), American economist, (Jewish mother) * Kenneth Arrow (1972), American economist, * Robert J. Aumann (2005), German-born American Israeli mathematician, game theory, * Gary Becker (1992), American economist, * Robert Fogel (1993), American economist, * Milton Friedman (1976), American economist, * John Harsanyi (1994), Hungarian-born American economist, * Daniel Kahneman (2002), Israeli-born French American psychologist, * Leonid Kantorovich (1975) Russian mathematician, linear programming, (Jewish mother), * Lawrence Klein (1980), American economist, * Simon Kuznets (1971), Ukrainian-born American economist, * Wassily Leontief (1973), Russian-born American economist, (Jewish mother) * Harry Markowitz (1990), American economist, * Robert Merton, (1997), American economist, (Jewish father), * Merton Miller (1990), American economist, * Franco Modigliani (1985), Italian-born American economist, * Herbert Simon (1978), American scientist, (Jewish father) * Paul Samuelson (1970), American economist, * Myron Scholes (1997), Canadian-born American economist, * Robert Solow (1987), American economist, * Joseph Stiglitz (2001), American economist, Nobel Prize in Literature * Paul Johann Ludwig von Heyse, German writer, (Jewish mother), 1910 * Henri Bergson, French philosopher, 1958 * Boris Pasternak, Russian poet and writer, 1958 * Shmuel Yosef Agnon, Ukrainian-born Israeli writer, 1966 * Nelly Sachs, German poet and dramatist, 1966 * Saul Bellow, Canadian-born American writer, 1976 * Isaac Bashevis Singer, Polish-born American writer, 1978 * Elias Canetti, Bulgarian-born British-Austrian novelist, 1981 * Joseph Brodsky, Russian American writer and poet, 1987 * Nadine Gordimer, South African novelist, 1991 (Jewish father) * Imre Kertész, Hungarian author, 2002 * Elfriede Jelinek, Austrian playwright and novelist, (Jewish father), 2004 * Harold Pinter, British playwright and theatre director, 2005 Nobel Peace Prize * Tobias Asser, Dutch jurist, 1911 * Alfred Fried, Austrian pacifist, journalist, co-founder of German peace movement, 1911 * René Cassin, French jurist, drafted Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1968 * Henry Kissinger, German-born American Secretary of State (1973-77) 1973 * Menachem Begin, Belarusian-born Israeli Prime Minister (1977-83) 1978 * Elie Wiesel, Romanian-born French American writer, for his written accounts of the Holocaust, 1986 * Shimon Peres, Belarusian-born Israeli Prime Minister (1986-88 1995-96) 1994 * Itzhak Rabin, Israeli Prime Minister (1974-77 1992-95) 1994 * Sir Joseph Rotblat, Polish founder of Pugwash Conferences, 1995, Nobel Prize for organizations * Ludwik Rajcman, founder of UNICEF United Nations International Children's Emergency Fund Prize in 1965 * Peter Benenson, founder of Amnesty International Prize in 1977 (baptized) * Bernard Lown, co-founder of IPPNW International Physicians for Prevent of Nuclear War Prize in 1985 * Joseph Rotblat, founder of Pugwash Conferences Prize in 1995 * Bernard Kouchner, Médecins Sans Frontières Prize in 1999 (Jewish father) Nobel Prize winners with one Jewish grandparent * Willem Einthoven, medicine 1924 (Jewish paternal grandfather) * Maria Goeppert-Mayer, physics 1963 (Jewish grandparent) * Aage Bohr, physics 1975 (Jewish paternal grandmother) * Betty Williams, peace 1976 (Jewish maternal grandfather) --------------------------------------------------------- So you can see that the Jews that are world wide 20 million have so many Nobel prize winners. While the Muslims who are 1.4 billion people have just 9, so yes the Muslims are lagging behing. Waa laga tagay. We are no longer in the 15th century. Yes Muslims have a glorious past, but what about the present? or the future? Its time we did something instead of always complaining. No body gives it to you, you got to take it.

Isagaa is garanaya. Waa mid yaroo kuusan oo af miinshaar ah. (Tuujiye)

Ka waran in ninkaasi maanta Soomaali madaxweyne u yahay? It makes me very very angry to see this kind of stuff, meel ee iga damqinaysaa nooh. Butocoow Bortiyeeri meeyay, ha naga qoslisiiyee?

^^^ahahahahahahah ahahahahahah waraa The Point, it really crossed my mind. I wanted to reply and write what you just said, but I calmed down and regained control.

They should take all the weapons. Allthese weapons in civilian hands is whats fueling the war and insecurity. The ICU should monopolize violence. I will stick to their laws if it means that I can live in peace.

^^^hahahahahha, sxb geel nugaal daaqayaa ma jiro maalin dhow. Cuduro badan ayaa ka dhalanaya, biyahana wey sumaynaysaa. Nimankan Garowe joogana dadka General Duke oo kale ah ayaa qabiil daraadeed ku ilaalinaya. Sheekadani wakhti badan ayee xumeed, meesha waa in lagu kala tago. A/Y ma aheen miyaa kii jidka Garowe iyo Bosaso ku aasayay sunta? Paragon Soomaaliyadii hore ma jirto sxb. Meeshan bari hore ayaa lagu kala tagay, waxaan ka baryeeno odayaashan maanta waxa weeye inta yar ee noo hadhay in ay noo daayaan.

^^^ I have heard the same thing.

Dear SOL’ers, I believe that you can see how this debate is unfolding and how these supporters of the secessionist mafia are trying to derail this whole debate by throwing mud and that they are resorting to vicious personal attacks that are uncalled for. Please remind them that this is an open forum that is intended for open minded debates rather than myopic clan chauvinism inspired slur. Oodweyne, Suldaanka, NGONGE and others I would urge you to come with evidence if you want to discredit my arguments. My arguments are sound and solid and the SNM was beaten. If you would like to claim anything other then that please provide the dear SOL public with evidence.

Hey hey hey no need to get angry people. Come with EVIDENCE!!!! 1. Was there 1 village, let alone a town that was in SNM hands the day that the USC captured Mogadisho? 2. Is there any neutral party that can confirm it? 3. Have you read the link that I have provided about the declassified documents from the US embassy in Somalia that is claiming that the refugees were returning and that the North was pacified? So folks calm down and come with evidence don't come here with my uncle told me stories. Mr. Oodweyne the only toddler here is the one that is using personal attacks instead of sound arguments. Well balanced arguments will settle this debate. Please let me know when you learn how to participate in a constructive debate. To the question of: Originally posted by Oodweyne: the question is, how come, I and the rest of Somalilanders are sitting quite prettily in top of our nation calls Somaliland Republic Ask the USC.

Dear all, I am very pleased with your reactions and over reactions. Sharmarke: You are right I am not objective. I am looking for the confrontation, I want a debate here, and I do not want jiibis. I want everyone to voice their own opinions. We should all use our brains and come to our own conclusions. Wiilka Shaydaanka thank you for the link. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We the Somali people need to face our past we need to look at it objectively. We should not write history along clan lines. We should write it as it happened. It’s good, its bad and its ugly. We should face the truth. It was not as black and white as we would like to believe. It was in all shades of grey. Siyaad Barre was not a good guy, but nor was he a bad guy. The SNM rebels included Somali Patriots who were motivated in overthrowing Siyaad Barre’s dictatorship and bettering the lives of all Somali’s, while others were clannish individuals who were motivated by clan chauvinism. Many officers in the Somali National Army objected and protested against the heavy handedness of the army against the rebels in the towns. This bravery was punished harshly. Somali officers like Lieutenant-Colonel Ahmed Mohamed Hassan refused to bomb Somali cities. While others obeyed all orders. Who was right? Who was wrong? In 1988 nothing was black and white; it was in all shades of grey. So it is sad to see the secessionist mafia run away with what happened and portray it as ‘clan-genocide’. It is sad to see how their one sided reporting on the Somali history is planting the seeds of hate in the Somalis in the North West. They are brainwashing these kids. 60% of the people in North West today were born after 1980. The secessionist mafia is telling the same lie repeatedly to these young masses. They are selling hatred to the young people. It is in the interest of peace and Somali coexistence that we report our history objectively. 1. The SNM betrayed the Somali Nation and the Somali people by collaborating with the enemy of Somalia. Ok did the SNM collaborate with the enemy of the Somali nation while we were in a state of war? Yes they did. Was doing this wrong? Yes it was it was treason. 2. The SNM sacrificed and made the people of Hargeysa and Burco suffer for their own selfish gains. Did the SNM sacrifice the people of Hargeysa and Burco? Yes they did, you do not have to be a military genius to see that you can not hold cities as large as Hargeysa and Burco with 1500 against the third largest and strongest army in sub-Saharan Africa. 3. The SNM was beaten by the Somali National army and this can be proven by the fact that the day that Mogadisho fell to the USC not one single village was in SNM hands. Was the SNM beaten? Most definitely, although they succeeded in one thing and that was that they radicalized the population of the North West. ---------------------------------------------------------- Mr. Oodweyne, Thank you for confirming it. You have not denied that the SNM was beaten. You have evaded the whole subject and attacked me personally and that is enough for me. Everyone reading this topic sees that you the secessionist mafia’s ambassador on SOL is evading the question. Mr. Oodweyne I ask you again. Was the SNM beaten by the Somali National Army? If not please provide the evidence. I have one more question for you though, are you aware that your kind will never be able to rewrite history? And that history will be a cruel judge to your ‘lot’.

Originally posted by Northerner: :rolleyes: Somaliland this, Somaliland that,,,,,,,,, No one is attacking anyone here Northerner. We are discussing our nations history. We are discussing events that played a major role in today's Somalia. To understand the realities on the ground today we need to go back to what happened in May 1988. We have no blood on our hands. We have not commited those crimes. We were not the SNM nor were we the Somali National Army. I believe that you can relate to when I say that we need to understand whay happened if we want to move on. We need to know who did what and why they did it. What motivated them. Who funded them. Who were the stakeholders. Who gave the order to Bomb the cities, why did the SNM kill so many civilians who belonged to other clans? were they 'clan-cleansing' the area? Did they really believe they could hold the cities with 1500 men? Did Somali pilots refuse to bomb the cities? There are many questions that need answering. All I am advocating for is that we should find out what really happened and that we document this history. We the Somali people deserve the truth don't you think?

Waraa butacoow, Boonbole kuuguma yeedhayo, ka waran Butacoow Bortiyeeri? Mid walba aan kuu soo laado, intaad qabatid ayaad igu soo celisaa. Dhareer Badanaa!!!

^^^Come with evidence please. It is wel documented that the SNM was beaten and that if the Mogadisho revolt in December 1990 didn't happen Siad Barre would be still ruling Somalia. So please back your claims up with evidence, I would really appreciate your input in this discusion.

^^ I think you right with this. The situation in Somalia has changed dramatically in past few months. We have seen law and order return to the South of Somalia. This could be the time for discussing issues surrounding Greater Somalia. But we must not forget that 'clannists' or 'regionalists in today’s Somalia have had 16 years to discredit the ideals of Somaliweyn. They have used every tactic in their books including making the people they control believe that the whole ideology of Somaliwayn was a clannish project and that it would not benefit their clan’s interests. Somaliwayn is one of the issues that clearly marks the faultiness between Clannism and Somali Nationalism. For realising the ideal of Somaliweyn first we need to get back to the position that we the Somali people were in July 1960. We need to unite the old republic and rebuild it so that there are incentives to the occupied territories for rejoining the old republic. We should also support greater autonomy for the Somali regions in Ethiopia & Kenya. We should improve the living standards of our people in those countries so that they can fully participate in the political processes in both those nations. We should encourage political participation of the Somalis living in those countries. We should form an economic, cultural and brotherly union with Djibouti without it loosing its independence. To keep it simple, we need to rethink our methods if we want to realize the Somaliweyn ideal. We should never drop our claims to our lands that are occupied today. We should always be prepared to wage a war if we see the Somali population in those regions is under treat.

With this tread I am trying to raise 3 issues. 1. The SNM betrayed the Somali Nation and the Somali people by collaborating with the enemy of Somalia. 2. The SNM sacrificed and made the people of Hargeysa and Burco suffer for their own selfish gains. 3. The SNM was beaten by the Somali National army and this can be proven by the fact that the day that Mogadisho fell to the USC not one single village was in SNM hands. The whole cult of SNM worship that surrounds the SNM is built on lies. They were not Mujaahidiins they were more like traitors. They never fought for the bettering of the lives of the people of the North West they fought for gaining power. They had taken a calculated cold blooded decision to sacrifice the people they want to make us believe they were trying to defend. The sole responsible for the death, destruction and the humiliation of the people of the North West are the SNM. They attacked the cities with a small group of rebels that never stood a chance. They also tried to prevent people from moving out of the city, so that when the Somali National Army tried to recapture the cities there would be maximum civilian casualties. They committed genocide among the Hargeysawi's that were not of the SNM clan, so that there would be reprisals when they left the cities. The only bit that seems to be true in the cult of SNM worshipping is the claim that they drank their own urine. But then again you can ask yourself if the SNM was as mighty militarily as they would like us to believe why drink urine while there are wells everywhere? Oodweyne tell us please is it that tasty that you would prefer it over water?

^^^ yeps, tit for tat.

Somaliweyn or Greater Somalia hasn't failed because it hasn't been tried yet. For Somaliweyn to fail we need to unite the Somali Lands first.

Originally posted by Paragon: quote:Originally posted by me: assasinations aaa? triple X miyaa gabadhani mise waa aargoosasho? This case sums up Somalia's civil war. Tit for Tat. Tripple X kuye. Sorry but it seems Cade's list of harrassment and Riyaale's watch of 17 year old girl assissins are becoming more and more rediculous by the day. Waryaa paragon. WAX AKHRI intaadan hadlin. What did I write? READ IT Ps. the triple X comes from her name Xaawa Xusen Xandule.

Originally posted by nuune: ^^^^ Me, you just want to make Oodweyne write none-stop holly molly stuff, he really enjoys that I like annoying the guy. Ina Sacliici imaqal 100.000? I thought it was 6 million. Anyhow the SNM tactic was simple. They attacked Hargeysa and Burco in 1988 with about 1500 men. They knew they wouldn't hold the cities so they committed mass murder under the local people who didn't belong to their clan and they waited for the National Army to respond. The National Army acted stup-id and shelled the city killing allot of innocent people and transforming the SNM traitors into local 'heroes'. But lets be realistic the SNM knew that they would never ever hold the cities with 1500 men, they attacked the cities so that there would be allot of innocent deaths, so that they would get support and it worked the local clans started supporting the SNM. The real mass murderers were the SNM. They planned it. They knew allot of innocent people would die and they went ahead with it. The people of Hargeysa and Burco were SACRIFICED so that few men would enjoy power in Northern Somalia. The army broke the SNM & its sympethisers within a short period of time. In late 1988 there was little resistance. In 1989 they were defeated. In late 1989 the refugees were returning & allot of the SNM fighters were surrendering. Only when the USC overthrew Siad barre in January 1991 did the SNM dare to move into the Northern cities. Thats how it was, there were no mujaahids, there were no liberators. Just very very lucky rebels.

Dear Oodweyne, you often talk about the 'mujaahidiin ,the 'liberation'of the North West and the glorification of the traitors of the Somali Nation. In every post you try to make the young SOL'ers believe that the North West of Somalia was liberated by the SNM. Even your SOL signature is: Question: Who Are These Somalilanders? Answer: They are The Ones In Whose Honoured Sacrifice In The Battlefield Of History, The Bells Of Victory Have Tolled The Most Times For....And To Whom The Destiny's Verdict Is Theirs To Rendered It.... Maybe you would like to check te link below and see that your mujaahids surrendered and they never ever liberated anything. In the battlefield they were beaten. Only when Mogadisho fell did these traitors of the Somali Nation fill the power vacuum in the North West. http://www.cod.edu/people/faculty/yearman/somalia/exploring_e17.pdf So when did these victories that you often talk about happen? Ps. I am sorry to have bursted your bubble. Pss. Your kind will not succeed in rewriting history.

Originally posted by BoiBoi: me, I'm trying to look at this objectively. I take your point but exploration and infrastructure are two very different things. I very sure that the infrastructure doesn't exist. Remember ALL companies have a bottom line, its called profit. What we need is a fine balance to be achieved so that we can all benefit, that should come in the form of a PSA agreement. What we need is a fine is balance to be achieved? Who is supposed to achieve it? Who made the agreement? The Somali people? or some corrupt warlord? you should think objectively BoiBoi.

assasinations aaa? triple X miyaa gabadhani mise waa aargoosasho? This case sums up Somalia's civil war. Tit for Tat.

This is sad. Crazy people may is daayaan, meelna ma kala aadayaan meel walbana way isku haystaan. Mr. Red Sea tan wax ka baro. Hadii gabadhan laxiray sheekadeedu run tahay waa wax laga naxo. Waa in gabadhan si dag dag ah loo sii daayaa. Hadii wax danbi ah lagu haysto waa in maxkamad lakeenaa, hadii wax dambi ahi uunan jirin waa in la siidaaya, xaqeedana la ilaaliyaa.

^^^ The infrasructure is already there. There have been explorations since the 60'5. Everything is ett to go. The big companies arewaiting for stability to return to Somalia. Once we have a government that controls teh whoelcountry only then will tehy be back. These Range Resources dudes and consortium are just thieves that are working withthe PL thieves. Lik Cade Muse said "waa jirri anana waa la garaabanaynaa" whosemoney are they stealoing do you think? Yes its Somalia that they are ripping ofand wether you like it or not YOU ARE SOMALIA, they are riping you and your kids off.