Ladies and gentlemen, the last couple of days here on SOL have proven that the secessionist have no case, other then because 'we' want to. In 1993 I was told that the reasoning behind this so called 'secession' was so that the union between Waqooyi and Koonfur could be re-negotiated, well we have passed that. Today the 'secessionists' don't even want to hear about re-negotiating the terms of the union. But they also lost the opportunity for favorable terms, today no one is Somalia will get special favours, because everybody wants it all. The secessionists lost a great opportunity.

Nice, thanx BOB didn't know that, btw do you speak fluent Zulu?

^ the ansswer to your question is Yes and No. Yes they are naive and ignorant otherwise they wouldn't be played like this. No because the ordinary people are put in a position fo fear, where they have to choose between two wrongs, in our case its either we will support corrupt 'leader' like AY,Cade Muuse,Qanyare, Muuse Suudi, Riyaale etc etc or we will be killed by the bad man of the other clan. So the ordinary people are put in a position of fear. The brave ones are assasinated or sillenced in other ways, look at professor Samatar and his likes, who are always writting good pieces about Somalia trying to inspire people but no one listens to him. While people like Muuse Suudi are getting air time on the BBC and other media outlets and they are made to look larger then they are. The majority of the people would rather support good leaders, but when the choice are given are the likes of Muuse suudi or Cade Muuse then what choice do the normal people have other then to feel hopeless? The corrupt ones are being armed and given enough media support while those who have good ideas are marginalized. This is how things are done.

Originally posted by Caano Geel: me: There is a difference between using and being used. Get as much money, weaponry intelligence as you like for the brits, americans french, what ever, but at the end of the day its the *muslim* militias and *muslims* that are kidnapping, blowing up, executing and are carrying out the depravities that we witness.. Lets not forget that now we have algerians and moroccans have a go at killing their own You don't have to go far to see brothers killing brothers for aparantly nothing, look at Somalia,what is the reasoning for our war? How was the anymosity created? What I am saying is there are people who specialize in destabilization. In Somalia they killed the trust, now they are killing the hope. You kill the trust between individuals in a society, then the hope is gone. Our people are almost hopeless and they believe that they can't stop whats going on, the same goes for orinary Iraqis too, they feel hopeless, powerless and they hide behind those that claim to be helping them. This is fear at work.

Eedo, their interverence in somalia hasn't started in 2006, they have been meddling with us since the 80's. There are even reports that Germany, Italy and the US were arming the oposition to Siyad Bare.....the gun torrets on technicals that the USC in the early 90's used were distrubuted by the German embassy in Xamar. Somalia's war and the genocides commited in Xamar 1991 were not just angry moor-yans or jirri going on a rampage, this was a planned ethnic cleansing. The path that Somalia took in the 90's is the path Iraq is on now. There are people who specialize in these sort of things and those people are now doing a good job. Its an art they mastered. Somalia's war is being fueled by many interested parties, its not just ethiopia, but the US, the italians, the britts and the arabs are all playing their roles in keeping the Somali conflict going, what they want from us..god knows. Just know that no one is 'helping' Somalia, everyone wants to impose their rules on us.

Northerner and caano geel, didn't the iraqi police catch in 2005 SAS soldiers disguised as Arabs in a car full of explosives? The BBC reported that story in the news at 6 and on the news at 9 that story was dead, a whole media blaclack out followed and the next day British soldiers stormed Basra police station where the SAS men were being held. I have seen this news with my own eyes, I couldn't believe what the BBC news reader was saying, because everything fell on its place at that moment, that was the prove that the British and US soldiers were at least responsible for some of the bombings, I am not denying that the different factions are doing their share of teh bombings, but I am saying the British and US are fueling this conflict. Ask yourself what would British SAS men disguised as Arabs be doing in a car full of explosives?

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: That is the US doing all this mess ,,,,, they want to kill more and blame the locals I couldn't agree more, the ones benifiting from it are prolly doint it.

Latest Ubuntu Delivers on the Promise of Open Source While millions consider whether to pay for Vista, the Ubuntu Project releases its secure, high performance, free Desktop and Server editions. For users wanting a secure, feature rich alternative to Microsoft Windows, Canonical Ltd., the commercial sponsor of Ubuntu, announced today the Thursday release of Ubuntu version 7.04. Ubuntu is the award-winning Linux distribution for the desktop, laptop, thin client and server which brings together the best of open source software every 6 months. Ubuntu 7.04 desktop edition (www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntudesktop704) includes a ground-breaking Windows migration assistant, excellent wireless networking support and improved multimedia support. Ubuntu 7.04 server edition (www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntuserver704) adds support for hardware facilities that speed up the use of virtual machines as well as other improved hardware support, making it an excellent choice as a web, database, file and print server, the fastest growing area of Linux server use. Ubuntu’s already outstanding support for thin clients is boosted with advanced print and sound support. “In the coming months, many individuals and businesses will be making the decision to upgrade their existing computer systems and their operating systems,” said Jane Silber, director of Operations, Canonical Ltd. “With added features to both the desktop and server editions, Ubuntu 7.04 is the most user-friendly version to date and is ideally suited to anyone who wants to make the switch to Linux and join the community of Ubuntu users. In fact, with this version of Ubuntu, it is easier than ever to move away from proprietary platforms.” At the same time as Ubuntu, the project also will release new versions of Kubuntu (www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntuflavours704), and Edubuntu (www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntuflavours704), specialized versions of Ubuntu which include the KDE desktop environment and educational applications, respectively. Ubuntu Fully Supported Used by businesses, home users, schools and governments around the world, upgrades to new releases will always be free of charge. Ubuntu 7.04 will be maintained for 18 months on both the desktop and on the server, and additional free support is available from the thriving Ubuntu community. For deployments which require additional service guarantees, full telephone and online support is commercially available globally from the professional support team at Canonical Ltd. and service partners. About Canonical and Ubuntu Canonical, the commercial sponsor of Ubuntu, is headquartered in Europe and is committed to the development, distribution and support of open source software products and communities. World-class 24×7 commercial support for Ubuntu is available through Canonical’s global support team and partners. Since its launch in October 2004 Ubuntu has become one of the most highly regarded Linux distributions with millions of users around the world. Ubuntu will always be free to download, free to use and free to distribute to others. With these goals in mind, Ubuntu aims to be the most widely used Linux system, and is the center of a global open source software ecosystem.

Canonical Launches Latest Ubuntu Desktop 7.04 Canonical Ltd., the commercial sponsor of Ubuntu, announce the availability of Ubuntu 7.04 Desktop Edition on April 19. Ubuntu is the award-winning Linux distribution for the desktop, laptop, thin client and server which brings together the best of open source software every 6 months. Ubuntu 7.04 desktop edition includes a ground-breaking Windows migration assistant, excellent wireless networking support and improved multimedia support. About Ubuntu 7.04 Desktop Edition The latest version of Ubuntu includes the following new features: Windows migration tool: The new migration tool recognizes Internet Explorer bookmarks, Firefox favorites, desktop wallpaper, AOL IM and Yahoo IM contacts, and imports them all into Ubuntu during installation. This offers easier and faster migration for new users of Ubuntu and individuals wanting to run a dual-boot system. Simpler multimedia: A new guided wizard for automatically installing multimedia codecs not shipped with Ubuntu gives users a safe and easy way to view music and videos. Plug and play network sharing with Avahi: This new feature allows users to automatically discover and join a wireless network to share music, find printers and more. Best of the open source world: Ubuntu 7.04 supports the Linux 2.6.20 kernel, the recent GNOME 2.18 desktop environment, and thousands of additional applications. Ubuntu’s already outstanding support for thin clients is further enhanced with advanced sound support from PulseAudio sound server and Jetpipe, a printing architecture for thin clients. Ubuntu Fully Supported Used by businesses, home users, schools and governments around the world, upgrades to new releases will always be free of charge. Ubuntu 7.04 will be maintained for 18 months on both the desktop and on the server, and additional free support is available from the thriving Ubuntu community. For deployments which require additional service guarantees, full telephone and online support is commercially available globally from the professional support team at Canonical Ltd and service partners. About Canonical and Ubuntu Canonical, the commercial sponsor of Ubuntu, is headquartered in Europe and is committed to the development, distribution and support of open source software products and communities. World-class 24×7 commercial support for Ubuntu is available through Canonical’s global support team and partners. Since its launch in October 2004 Ubuntu has become one of the most highly regarded Linux distributions with millions of users around the world. Ubuntu will always be free to download, free to use and free to distribute to others. With these goals in mind, Ubuntu aims to be the most widely used Linux system, and is the centre of a global open source software ecosystem. Download Ubuntu from www.ubuntu.com/download. To learn about commercial support for Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu, please see www.canonical.com/support. For more information visit www.canonical.com or www.ubuntu.com.

Badacase in the thread titled Puntland laugh of secessionist claims. You said....check below Originally posted by Mj. bada Cas: mr. me, you know I had the last word in that discussion. I gave you all the answers, you ran out of questions I think. And as we can see in this thread....your last words were? Originally posted by Mj. bada Cas: MR. Me had an argument So I rest my case.

Dear all, I have been asking myself these questions for a long time, can one be neutral in Somalia's civil war? What does it mean to be neutral in this civil war? And is it neutrality or emotional detachment what brought us here? Over 95% of the contributors of this forum would take peace over war, a full belly over famine and security over fear, at least I would. We would all take pride over humiliation in this personalized conflict were if one side was to 'loose' its rights wouldn't be guaranteed. In the conversations of my elders often I hear things such as if 'they' were to rule the country, 'they' would slaughter us all, marginalize us, discriminate against us, imprison us and humiliate us. Often they have valid points, they say look at what has happened in Hargeysa in 1988 or Xamar 1991, look at what 'they' have been doing for the past 16 years. Look at how 'they' have destroyed our beautiful country, how 'they' have even brought the xabashis to Xamar. As you can imagine they often blame 'them' but never look at their own faults. When one tries to point out the flaws in the reasoning of the elders usually one is laughed off, sent away like Oodweyne told me to play with the toys. Sometimes the debates get heated and the true nature of this conflict emerges. In the eyes of many Somalis including the elders it is about survival and just as in instances of extreme threats fear takes over, fear guides the decisions, fear is a reflex, fear is the emotion that keeps them safe, fear has brought them this far and it won't fail them now. Even in the conversations of my peers who all have diverse backgrounds, in the clannish sense. I hear similar sentiments all founded on fear. In this conflict I do not exist as a person, I am no longer an individual, I am ina hebel from X clan. Yes I quit my clan, I have handed in the membership card and I haven't paid the contribution fee for a long time, but do you think 'they' would believe me if they caught me at a isbaaro or a jidgooyo? So how can one be neutral in this conflict? does running away to a far away country and ignoring the plight of 'your'/'our'* people make you neutral? Does pretending that Somalia doesn't exist get you of the hook? Does simply saying I don't do qabyaalad make you neutral? How about congregating in forums and taking about how bad things are? Is that what it means to be neutral in this conflict? Is being indecisive equal to neutrality? The majority of us I am talking about the 95% that pretends to be neutral are not neutral at all, they are the constituency of qabyaalad, they are the mob, they are the ones whose blood boils when their villages are threatened, who hold fund raising events, who cry tolaayeey, who buys arms, who send young men from overseas to fight along their clansmen, but when their neighbors villages are sett alight they gloat, they celebrate , they get joyful about the pain of their Somali brothers an sisters. One does not have to look far to see these folks in action, we saw them here on SOL when the Ethiopians were bombing Xamar in the 4 day war, we saw them, when the secessionists 'attacked' Dharar. In my opinion one can not be neutral in this conflict, we all play our parts in perpetuating this war. Whether we carry a gun, send money, excuse the wrong doings of 'our side' or stick our heads in the sand like an ostrich. Neutrality in the case of the Somali conflict is just a shallow facade for indecisiveness, in this conflict we all need to take sides, we can side with our factions and keep things as they are now, or rise above it and fight for the healing of our nation. Neutrality is often mistaken for pacifism, but in my opinion it is being actively involved in bringing about positive change to our country. While it is possible for people to try to be emotionally detached from issues like these, one can not be completely neutral. By nature people are inclined to respond differently. So now I ask you, are you neutral in this conflict? and can you be neutral when you have so much at stake?

Reread this thread Badacas, it might refresh your memories. How Oodweyne and his SNM were beaten The old man lost his cool and started calling names and making death treats, even you wanted in aan dooxada isku aragno badacas, remmember? Clearly you have a memory problem.

@ artfull dodger - The first link, I have not seen your question before, but I will answer it...In due time, its now almost 6, I need to head home from work…. The second link, do you honestly think that that’s evidence for the sovereignty of Somaliland? Are you serious? I want to see, independent reports, treaties, a seat in the UN. A lines on a map, a flag and local laws don't make a sovereign country, that’s where you secessionists got it wrong.

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: I'm somalilander and you are not ,,,,,,, very simple I like your answer Jacaylbaro...because you are right I am Somali. Artful Dodger what question of yours have I not answered? A facts for you, there is no such thing as a soveirgn terrortory of Somaliland, however the soveirgn territory of the Somali Republic is internationally recognized. So how can there be citizens of a non existent state?

^^hahahah, I knew Oodweyne would jump out somewhere, in case that you are new here, Oodweyne's lies have been dispelled, I want to know your answer, not Oodweyne's I have already dealt with that old man. So tell me in your own words who is a Somalilander and who is not?

Originally posted by roobleh: But Somaliland is different. It has created peace and security. Somaliland is a nation that is committed to provide peace and prosperity for its people. The Somaliland government is there to protect the interest of its citizens (Somalilanders). Somalilanders do not want to take part in anything that can jeapordise their hard-worn peace. But we are ready to help the region to make peace and prosper, and hope Somalia will seek the Somaliland government to help them stabilize their country. A correction and a comment. 1. Somaliland is not a nation...its a pseudo-state, the nation is called the Somali nation, since the people in this pseudo-state are Somalis just like you and I. And who are these Somalilanders that you are talking about? Who is a Somalilander and who is not?

Originally posted by nabadshe: I got it Che. But its amazing that Eritreans were in xamar yesterday with UIC. Today they are in hargeysa with Somaliland. For sure i can see some clique among the somalis have mastered the arts dirty of politics.I dont know how long its gona go but the waters are being tested for now. With this comment I am not defending the stooges..I am just leveling the playing field.....so come on Nabadshe, haven't the seccessionist been playing dirty for the past 16 years? -Haven't they written letters to Israel offering Barbera as a base. -Haven't they said that a kid born in Adis Abeba is closer to them then a kid born in Xamar -Haven't they deported thousands of Somalis who originally hailed from the south from their houses? -Haven't they called the englisg queen their mother while refering them selves at orphans? -Haven't they denied the fathers of Somali nationalism, while honouring the dead of teh colonialists, just to get some sympathy from the former colonialist? -Haven't they hired foreign lobbyists that are constantly lying about Somalia? So who isn't playing dirty? everyone is playing dirty...welcome to politics...its a dirty business.

Originally posted by Artful Dodger: but i suppose if people like -ME- or JB complained about insults that he made against them it would explain at least a part of it. not all of it mind you because Timacaddeh and others should have been given the right to defend themselves and against their accusations. I have not complained about Timacadeh or any of these secessionist punching bags, I have been called worse on SOL so hold your horses Dodger and I don't think that Jacaylbaro would complain about Timacadeh since they are partners in secession. The rules are clear, and Laba xiniinyood's guidelines would help anyone who is willing to debate for their case. Originally posted by Laba_Xiniinyood: We don’t want to hear what other websites say – we want to hear your views! Stop hiding behind other people’s words and post your own. It would really great if you just post your opinions and your thoughts rather than copying and pasting entire contents of websites to fill up the pages. These will most likely NOT be read by anyone. If you wish, quote a passage and then paste the link at the bottom. Stop being sentimental – attacking the person rather the argument they put forward simply discredits you for good and shows lack of reasoning skills and knowledge. be careful of this for it often leads to an ignominious end! Trivial arguments – don’t just argue for the sake of arguing, bring forth some reasoning and analysis that forwards the debate rather than spin it in eternal circles of ambiguity. Prove it! – many people have no basis for most of the allegations they make and when asked for proof for these baseless accusations would simply vanish and wait for the topic to be buried. These persons are mostly inconsistent in their pitiful appeals. Selective Reading - choosing to read one part of a person’s post and refuting that only point and negating any other points raised, demonstrates some weakness in your counter-argument. It is pathetic. And last but not least – Debate, don’t discuss! – this is not your local restaurant or Marfish!

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: It is easy to blame somalis coz no one is gonna deffend them ,,,,, and ppl will easily accept the accusation since we are known as qaswadayaal and bilaa dowlad ,,,,, ^ and I thought that in aad Somaliland wadan la yidhaahdo ka timid oo dowlad leh....mise waxaad leedahay dowlad somaliland la yidhaahdo ma jirto.

Originally posted by Didi Kong: Good developments. Since gumeysi ma ku jirno what we need to do is to coax Ethio/US to redefine or redraw the secessionists boundaries to exclude SSC, so we can bid these war mongering folks good bye for good. Lol...adaaba ka daray kuwii kale...Soomaaliya ma la kala jarayo...so no borders being redrawn. What do you suggest a border running through Ceerigaabo? Caynaba? Parts of Hargeysa? Awdal being cut of from the rest of Somalia? If waqooyi Galbeed secedes, then whats stopping other regions in Somalia? We need a negotiated peace, we need to talk honestly and address all the issues that matter to us in a honest way. A middle ground can be found if we get rid of these extremist elements on both sides. This animosity won't resolve anything it will just keep this cycle of hate going.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: War ha la is cafiyo! Anyone wanna take a wild guess of how many Aydiid's militia killed or caused them to die by hunger, disease, or drowned in the high sea between Kenya and Somalia... Ha lays cafiyo indeed, but as long as these unfortunate deaths are being used as a propaganda tool laysma cafinayo...marka am I am suggesting the unthinkable when I say, lets have an independant investigation into the matters and bring those responsible to justice. The crimes commited by Caydiids militia in the early 90´s is unrelated to the matters on 1988 and they need their separate investigation. We need the truth, no more xawaasheen. What do we have to gain by lying..about the crimes of others....in order to move on we need the truth and once the truth comes up, we can talk about forgiveness and peaceful coexistence.

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Originally posted by xiinfaniin: War ha la is cafiyo! Anyone wanna take a wild guess of how many Aydiid's militia killed or caused them to die by hunger, disease, or drowned in the high sea between Kenya and Somalia... Ha lays cafiyo indeed, but as long as these unfortunate deaths are being used as a propaganda tool laysma cafinayo...marka am I am suggesting the unthinkable when I say, lets have an independant investigation into the matters and bring those responsible to justice. The crimes commited by Caydiids militia in the early 90´s are unrelated to the events of 1988 and they need their separate investigation. We need the truth, no more xawaasheen. What do we have to gain by lying..about the crimes of others....in order to move on we need the truth and once the truth comes up, we can talk about forgiveness and peaceful coexistence.

I agree, these should be the new guidelines of the Politics section. Debating not arguing.