^^No one should roll over, but the military side and the political side can go hand in hand. The first thing that should be done is that they should organize a genuine reconciliation forum and a Somali government in exile. The resistance should be united only they can it be more effective. This government should include all the people in the Somali Republic otherwise there is no point.

Originally posted by Xoogsade: Why don't you pull my comments up bro Me? That is firm statement you make about you seeing me defending Aydiid. I would like to see what I have said. I can't even think of any context I would praise Ceydiid or Defend past actions. Fursad fiican oo aa igu ceebeesid aa heysataa ee ha dhaafin bro. Anigana waxaan rabaa inaan arko waxaan iri. So come on, do your work ama naga dhaaf maala yacniga. I give you plenty of time and will be back, ee soo dheji meeshaan waxaan qoray. Ma doonayo in aan ku 'ceebeeyo', wax dan ah iiguma jirto taasi. Waxaan doonayaa in aad daacad u noqotid la dagaalanka xabashida iyo daba dhoonkooda, iyo cid walba oo Soomaalinimada wax u dhimaysa. Marka daacad ma u tahay Soomaalinimada, mise waxaad hada u xanaaqasantahay qabiil daraadeed? Paragon, we couldn't be more divided. So I am not doing anything, I am asking people to show their loyalties, are they loyal to their respective reer hebel or to Umada Soomaaliyeed? Aan ka bilaawno taas. Kii reer hebel ka jecel umada Soomaaliyeed in wax lagu darsado maaha.

Paragon to fight a war is not a simple thing, so shouldn't you be able to trust those who are fighting with you? What if they ahve different plans and ey kaaga baxaan the moment they can make a deal? So its better to deal with only those you can trust, its better to deal with 10 men you are sure of their loyalty to the cause then with 1000000 you are not sure of.

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^^ And in the 1980s Somalia was a sovereign republic ruled by a President and run by civil servants, etc. He (the former President) lost it all because of his actions and political mistakes. The ICU lost it because of their actions and lack of political know-how. Are you saying then the alternative to the TFG is the Islamic Courts? Well, fine, they should come out and form an alternative government in exile or something. I know it’s difficult when women, children and the infirm are being bombed, killed and made homeless but I still reckon that somebody needs to be looking beyond the events of today and planning for the outcomes of tomorrow. The fighters are doing their part and are attempting to dislodge the invader (and those they view as collaborators). Now, for a balanced picture, somebody needs to be representing the political side of this resistance. Couldn't agree more, they need to plan for tommorow so that when the TFG is gone, they can step in and take over. The problem we had in 1991 was that no one planned ahead and when Siyad Barre fell the rebels turned on each other.

Originally posted by Xoogsade: ^ Me wants a monopoly on honesty. Should we let him have it? No ME Soomaalida wuu yaqaanaa. Runta ha laysu sheego, been meel laguma gaarayo. Castro I don't need to look further then your support for the secessionists to see double standards.

Eedo and the guys, what i am saying is, that everyone wants to throw mud at other entities but will get defensive when his or her entity is on the recieving end. Xoogsade is a defender of Caydiid, I have seen his past posts and now he is attacking Puntland for the same things that he was defending caydiid against. Castro and Northerner are known secessionist and now they are all about dadka Soomaaliyeed, like they ever cared. What I am saying is I smell opportunism. So folks get real. Paragon, we need to sort each other our before we can take on any other enemy. We all need to know where we stand. We need to have similar goals otherwise we will be the ones fighting in the near future. Hal meel ha laysku raaco.

Northerner, it was no nod, it was a comment to all of you, be real. Castro Puntland can go to hell I never supported any of those corrupt bantunistans and never will. What I am saying is, all you guys ahve double standards, so its amusing to see the likes of you, xoogsade and northerner in action. Its simple either soomaalidu wey is wada raacaysaa ama meeshan ayaan weligeen taagnaanaynaa, idunku bal doorta.

^A question bro, why werent't you talking like this when Caydiid and his likes where doing similar things? where were you then? When you can answer that question then you can also understnad the situation of the ordinary puntlander. I don't see anything genuine in your posts, that goes for castro, xoogsade and northerner..... Markaad daacad noqotaan soo noqda. Intaas ka hor hawo un ayaa lasykaga hadlayaa.

10 wadaad oo maamulka Puntland u dhiibay ciidamada Itoobiya oo ku xiran xabsiga gobolka Wardheer. Warkii 23-Apr-2007 iyo Qormadii: Afnugaal Newsdesk. Warar aan ka helay ilo lagu kalsoon yahay oo aan arimo amni awood magacooda loo sheecin karin ayaa sheegay in dad laga qabtay Goboladda Puntland loo dhaadhiciyey xabsi ku yaala gobolka Wardheer ee ismaamulka Itoobiya,halkaas oo hada lagu hayo. Dadkan xidhan oo ilaa 10 qof ah ayaa u badan niman wadaado ah oo laga qabtay magaalooyinka Garoowe iyo Gaalkacyo kadibna loo dhiibay Ciidamada Ethiopia ee ku sugan magaaladda Gaalkacyo kuwaas oo kadibna la geeyey Saldhig ku yaala Gobolka Wardheer ee ismaamulka Soomaalida. Wadaada la dhaadhiciyey ayaa mid ka mid ah waxaa magaciisa naloogu sheegay Sheekh Carab oo aan la hayn magaciisa oo sadexan,balse u dhashay qabiilka Nuux Jibraahiil(**********) iyo wadaadka isna magaciisa naloogu sheegay Axmed Sufa oo u dhashay qabiilka Gelimays. Maxaabiistaa loo dhiibay ciidamada Itoobiyaanka ah ee ku sugan Gaalkacyo ayaa waxa markii hore gacanta ku soo dhigay ciidamada Puntland,kadibna waxaa la wareegay ciidamada Itoobiyaanka ah. Col Carays oo ah taliyaha ciidamada Puntland ayaa ah ninka hawshaas fuliya,wuxuuna hada ka hor ka soo hor jeestay wadahadalo dhex maray Cadde Muuse iyo wadaadada Puntland. Arintan ayaa ah arin aan horay uga dhici jirin dhulka Soomaaliya,waxaana hada welwel la soo dersay eheladii ragaas Itoobiyaanka loo dhiibay,kuwaas oo aan garin karin meel ay ku danbayn doonaan ragaasi. Afnugaal Newsdesk.

DAUUD ILAAHAY HA U NAXARIISTO

^CENTY ILAAHAY HA U NAXARIISTO

It won't end, humans will die out. Hijacking your own threads?

Kismaayo anagaa iska leh

Congratulations to the guys, ilaahay ha ka dhigo kuwii dadkooda iyo dalkoodaba wax tara.

^Sxb calm adown and listen, I am not saying the TFG is worth anything. What I am saying is instead of destroying the TFG and then working another 5 years figuring out what next, we should start working at what will replace it, that way we will be able to get rid of the TFG faster, because the people have a real alternative and we will also save time. Because destroying the TFG now will solve nothing, we will be in the current mess, same tribal BS. So work on a real solution instead of half measures. There should be a real alternative, not the same old clan BS, no clan will be able to eject Ethiopia alone, so its time to reach out to other clans.

^What will replace the TFG? lets not go back to 1991, when we got rid of Siyad barre but didn't have anything to replace him with. We need to find an alternative for teh TFg first, we need a shadow government, that can step in and take over from the TFG.

Eriteriya, ma lug goynaysaa jabhada Xoraynta Soomaaliya? I have this feeling in soomaalida l;a lug goynayo, maxaan u sameesanweynay mid aan ku dhanahay, inta ICU wixii ka haray iyo xussein caydiid ee meel kaliya isugu tagayaan. Maxaan anagu wax u samaysan weynay, inta Asmara na laga soo dirayo? Lug gooyo ayaa meeshan ku jirta ayaan is leeyahay, Afweki iyo Zenawi yagaa isla jira ayaan u malaynayaa, kolay yagaa naska keen xiga. Nimankan waa in aan ka tashano.

^practice what you preach.

Badacase, waxan oo naac naac ah waxaa kaa yeedhsiinaya, waxaan idhi ha la baadho wixii dhacay 1988. Runta in aad ka baqaytsid waa la arkaa. baadhitaan maxay banaan markasta oo aan soo qaado, waxaa qaylo ka bilaaba the secessionist mafia. sabatu maxay tahay oo ay oqa baqayaan runta?

Originally posted by Mj. bada Cas: When someone cheers on for the dictator Siyad Barre and his autrocities commited against innocent lives and then with the same breath preaches about somali unity has to be remarkable stance which obviously confuses me and many others here. First of all, I don't see why and many others here are arguing about somethings that may or may never be accomplished, when you should be worrying about the survival of the somali people in general. [/QB] 1. I never cheered for Siyad barre, I cheered for the Somali National Army and the Somali state. If you want to discuss the issue of the treason that the SNM commited, well there is another thread, bring yourself there, this thread is about the crimes the SNM commited. Siyad barre wasnt better then all the thugs that followed him, but that doesn't make him a sweetheart. 2. the secessionists will never accomplish their goals, its that simple, if the secessionist soo joog laga waa , soo jiifso waa laga heli. 3. you talk about the Somali nation being under threat, laakiin meeshan yaa na dhigay? Kuwa Soomaaliya raba in ay kala gooyaan samee na dhigin? laba wajiilanimada daa. 6dii miljan ee 'la dilay' marka aad soo aasttid, bal soo noqo. Riyo ayaa lagu wada jiraa. Midba midka kale un ayuu eeganayaa, taas weeye waxaan u qoray that thingy on neutrality. Qof toos u socdaa ma jiro, aniga xitaa hadii laygu daro. Marka sheekadu waa laba, ama meeshan aan wada taagnaano, masiibadan aan ku wada jirno anagoo meeshan isku haysanana, xabashi ha noogu tomaado, ama aan wada hadalno oo aan is af garano. Wax layska qaadayaa ma jirto. Hadii wax layska qaadayana, bari hore ayaa taasi dhici lahayd.

Originally posted by Paragon: Me, it doesn't really take a genious to figure it out, or does it? Be as critical in your thinking as you may be and ask yourself: what lands and people are there to unite? Somali lands ofcourse. Now, narrow and deepen your question and ask yourself: who are these people and who wanted to unite them with Somalia? No I can't figure it out, so tell me, since you seem to know something i clearly don't know, ii sheeg bal. Ha ku dul wareegin. edit: and what do you suggest for the Somali people? that they should stay in the current mess? please give me your ideas on the matters.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: quote:Originally posted by me: Edit: and how can unity be in one clans interest? That's really astonishing statement to make!! Maybe Paragon should explain, I have heard him say similar things before, but usually its hit and run, so here is his chance to explain how Somali unity is in teh interest of one clan and not the whole Somali nation.

^What do you suggest then? You are always saying that but never offering an alternative. Edit: and how can unity be in one clans interest?

Interview: Abdinur Darman, Somalia's disputed president Grahame Bennett Middle East Times April 19, 2007 Somalia's disputed president NICOSIA -- Abdinur Ahmed Darman says he is the president of Somalia - a claim that the international community does not recognize. The leader of Somalia's dominant Hawiya clan declared himself head of state in Mogadishu July 2003 at the time Somalia already had a president-in-exile, Abdiqasim Salad Hassan. That was because Darman refuses to accept the authority of the transitional parliament in neighboring Djibouti that elected Abdiqasim in 2001. Since the dictator Said Barre was toppled in 1991 the war-torn country has had no effective central government and had been run by independent warlords and ethnic tribal militias. In August 2004 politicians, warlords, and clan leaders agreed a new parliament and president under a transitional government, called the Transitional Federal Government (TFG). But the TFG split into opposing factions. Ethiopian troops deployed in the country to help TFG soldiers defeat an alliance of clan leaders and militants that united to form a rival administration. Fighting continues, and this month Somalia has seen its worst fighting in 15 years. Darman has called on all foreign troops to leave to give Somalis a chance to solve their own problems. He agreed to be interviewed by the Middle East Times. Excerpts from that interview follow: Q: Why do you claim to be the president of Somalia? I was elected June 5, 2003 inside Somalia. And, of course, it was celebrated by Somalis all over the world. In August 12, 2004 Abdiqasim Salad Hassan was reelected by his parliament in Djibouti. [Abdiqasim served as president-in-exile in Djibouti from 2001-2004.] That parliament was recognized by the United Nations. That parliament then called Abdiqasim for another election, because his staff was fired. He did not win that election and so they wanted to nominate another president. But parliament itself said, "Wait, the public wants this man [Darman]. If they nominate another man in Somalia there will be a problem. We will choose him again." When that happened, the parliament in Djibouti - which I didn't recognize anyway - told me, "first you have to accept and recognize us because we want to elect you again." I said, "you cannot elect me. The public elected me. You can affirm the election of the public." And for the purposes of technicality, I was sworn in a second time by parliament [in Somalia]. Q: When was that? That was August 12, 2004. So, I became the only president that was elected twice, sworn in twice. When that happened ... Abdiqasim went to elections in Nairobi and lost to Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed. [Abdullahi was elected president of the TFG by a session of the Transitional Government Parliament in Nairobi and sworn in October 14, 2004.] Now, when that happened, the government that was elected overseas - outside the country - could not come into the country. They were rejected by the public. So, they asked for international support to assist them to get in. For a year-and-a-half they did not go in. Then they came up with the word "terrorists," extremist Islamists. What extremists? The young people became angry and more radicalized. They started to talk crazy. We needed to have rules and regulations. They were temporary. Then they brought Abdullahi Yusuf to Baidoa [city in central Somalia]. When he came to Baidoa he couldn't stay. The public was not happy. You'll remember they tried to kill him twice in Baidoa. But we think he was staging those attacks to entice the international community to attack. So, then countries got together and said, "we'll attack Mogadishu and force [Abdullahi] to be accepted." So, the Ethiopians troops came in and said they can do it - but they cannot. Now they are losing men. There is a war going on, even now. Firefights. So the Ethiopians are thinking about going out. You notice ... that [with] the last four agreements. The ceasefire - they signed it with Hawiya [tribe]. They didn't sign with Abdullahi Yusuf. So, it shows you that he doesn't exist, actually. The war now is such a way that the so-called African Union peacekeepers were supposed to come to Somalia under UN Resolution 1725 [of December 2006] that says "no border country can come in, only other countries." So, Uganda came in and others want to come in to keep peace. What peace are they going to keep? You have to agree what kind of peace to keep first. So, the Ugandans are losing men. Ethiopians are losing men. Somalis are losing. So, the best thing to do is for everyone to leave Somalia, because we want to run our own country. Q: Have you been ousted? I was in the country when the Ethiopian troops came in. They were very good to me. They did not attack my people. In fact they said, "This is the president." They kicked [out] other people who were causing a problem. Up to now, my cabinet is working, our office is working. I went to the United States to find out what is going on. Q: So, you can freely leave and enter Somalia? They cannot touch me because we are the Somali power base. They know that. Q: Why did you go to America, to find out what? A lot of things. I met a lot of people. Q: You went to the State Department? I didn't go that far yet. I wanted to see the feeling from some members of Congress. And now, when I return, I will meet with them, yes. Q: Somalis have been accused of being terrorists, Islamist militias. What good have you done, what have you actually accomplished? First of all, it is not quite accurate to talk about Islamist militia. It is a regular militia that is comprised from the Somali people who are uprising against everybody. The Islamist and radical parties are no longer there. Peace had returned. People could safely drive their cars. We set up the court system. We reestablished security, the police. The public know that we can do it again, if the Ethiopians leave. And now some of the areas that the Ethiopians are out of are back to normal. People can go to stores, they can buy things. Our troops are controlling those areas - and they are not militia, they are troops. They are Somali government troops. Q: I heard that some refugees have returned, but with the escalation of fighting, especially in the last few days, they want to leave again. Look at the UN reports from September and October [2006]. People were driving their own cars. Safety had returned. People want to invest in the country. Doctors came in from other countries, from Egypt, from Yemen. They came from Sudan, from Kenya, even Ethiopian teachers - just came. To teach something in schools. They get paid, of course. Private schools and private hospitals hire them. Now, outsiders ... want to take us back to square one. We're not going to accept that. Q: Reports say that Islamists have vowed a guerrilla war against the Ethiopians. No, this is not true. This is face-to-face fighting. We are not hiding. The press is giving that impression. The word "insurgents" and all that stuff. Abdullahi's is not a recognized government. The [top military] Ethiopian [officials] are dealing with us directly, through the clan system. At the same time, the [most recent] escalation [of hostilities] was caused when Abdullahi Yusuf and Ethiopians in a radio announcement said, "Everyone leave your houses, but leave all your utensils and your chairs there." Why? It means, "we've taken over. We've taken over everything. Your house is now mine." That's exactly what it is. And the people say, "over my dead body." Q: You've compared this with the Israelis' occupation of the Palestinians. So, you define this as an occupation? It is an occupation. Even the UN doesn't accept it. Even the Europeans have told the Ethiopian troops ... 'get out, you cannot stay.' And they will get out. Q: And is the US backing the Ethiopian troops? I don't know what that means, and I don't know anything about that. Q: Because Washington believes that some of the militias are linked to Al Qaeda, and that if their power base is not removed, Somalia will become a hotbed of terrorism. I am not Al Qaeda. I don't speak Arabic either. The people in Somalia are fighting for their lives. They don't care about anybody outside. Somalis have always been at war and they know how to fight. They haven't been trained by outsiders. Q: Some analysts fear that Ethiopia and Eritrea may fight a proxy war in Somalia. Do you see any likelihood of that? No, I don't think so. Look at the [good] relationship [that exists] between Eritrea and Somalia and Ethiopia and Somalia; a large portion of Somalis live in Ethiopia. And Eritrea, we don't know too much. We shall see what they do. It's probably just for the news. I don't see anything for them. Anyway, we can fight for ourselves. We have done it before. Even the Ethiopian soldiers in Somalia are selling their weapons. They want to get out. All of them are leaving. The refugees going to Yemen now are Ethiopian soldiers who don't want to fight. Q: A National Reconciliation Conference was to have been held April 16, but the Arab League postponed it for a month. Why did they do that? Because I refused to go there. There's no peace. There's nothing to negotiate. Everyone has to leave [somalia] first. Q: Why won't you go? Another lie. Q: Which is? You see, there were 14 conferences on Somalia outside the country. What we did in Somalia is there. I don't understand why they have to invent every day a new one. Why can't they have a continuation? If we go [to] another one, it's like zero again. The information that you are getting [is] as an outsider, then you are not sure what is going on. Think about it: 14 times it failed. What makes it possible? This is the 15th time. Why do you think it'll work the 16th time? Stay out of it. Let's handle it like I did in Somalia. Leave it. I will not call now. There is a meeting coming up, but I will not call until these guys go home. Get out and all the foreign troops, get out. Q: So you see that they will postpone the meeting again, or will they have a meeting without you? They met without me all the time, but it failed. We are Hawiya. We have to be there. And not the ones they choose, it's the ones we choose. Our party represents Somalis across the whole country. But we will not meet outside the country. They can do whatever they want. But it's going to fail. There is no meeting until the Ethiopians leave and the foreign troops leave the country. Then we can talk about meeting. But the meeting will be held inside the country. When they leave. It won't be outside the country.

Badacase, Your comment on the 'South' sitting on corn and banana's was funny, but little do you know, even this 'South' has oil, most of it offshore in the indian ocean, uranium and many other valuable minerals. So if the Somali people learn to get allong then we may get a prosporous nation. The secessionist project is doomed to fail because even this 'oil' that they dream of is mostly in areas that are pro unionist. Taa bal ka tali