Originally posted by Xanthus: for everyone sake I hope "Somalinimo" does not mean shoot everyone with a different view Now that’s an assumption and I think it says more about your views then mine. Originally posted by Xanthus: "we all need to take the same path to reach the same goal" :rolleyes: "Somalinimo, Secessionist, Xabash Stooge, waaxaab maadxaa kuu khaado you guys are all as bad as each other, why cannot you not have your own views and opinions instead of just blindly following some kind of unattainable ideal, better you all start with basic baby steps (regard for human life is a good start). :cool: In case you haven’t noticed this is war; there is no more time for baby steps. We have been taking baby steps for 16 years; look at all these neutral people? They all want to see good things happening in Somalia, but they don’t dare to take a stand. We are here because of baby steps Xanthus. 16 years of war is because some people are thinking if we just wait ride it out it will all be fine. Its cool to say you are neutral, but being neutral won’t solve anything, being neutral and taking action will solve things, but when you are neutral and you speak your mind, you are labelled because there are those that don’t like what you say, so you become a part of the conflict. Edit: For evil to prosper all it needs is for good people to do nothing When I say we all need to take the same path, I am talking about the (we) Somali people and the path I am talking about is the path of unity. I know you disagree with that because I said it. Originally posted by Xanthus: I don’t want to get drawn into your contradictions, I already gave you at least one example and you still insist on its non existence so I guess we will just differ on that one. That was not an example, so back up your claim Xanthus. You said you showed me my contradictions and now you are claiming its tiring. Drink a red bull or something and show me what you are talking about. You already had made your mind up before you started this discussion and that’s why you are working on assumptions here.

Hold up MMA, although you got points, allot of hardworking Somalis have lost properties in this war. What do you have to say about them? Why focus on niman gacanta lagu tirin karo waxay dhaceen? Its unfair of you to focus on what few men did MMA. Edit: the issues of the looted properties haven't been adressed for the past 16 years, why are they being addressed now? Waa in lays cafiyo, wixii laysku leeyahayna laga xisaabtamo. Xabashidan waxay sameenayaan cid walbaa way aragtaa, lakiinse maxaa laga qaban karaa, hadii aan xaqa laysku raacsaneen? Marka hore aan anagu isla xisaabtamno.

Xanthus show me the contradiction you are talking about, maybe you see something I don't. I tus bal waxaad ka hadlaysid. About me excluding people left and right? I am not Mother Theresa. I speak my mind, so tell me, what does a Secessionist have to do with Somalinimo? Hasn't a secessionist excluded himself already? how about a xabash stooge, what does he have to do with Somalinimo? Have I excluded them or have they excluded themselves? Somalinimo doesn't mean giving everyone a hug. @Nomad , try again, I said worse things then saying clone Siyad Barre.

Xanthus, refresh my memory, what contradiction did you point out?

Originally posted by -Nomadique-: ^ Are you sure about that Me ? "Siyaad Barre for president!, Vote Siyaad 2008!" Some people clearly have no sense of humor, Siyad Barre is dead remmeber? Plus I rather have Siyad Barre over any of these so called leaders today. The question AYOUB asked was whether I wanted to go back to 1984 and my answer to that was clear.

Originally posted by AYOUB: ME You just want to turn the clock back to 1984 when your hero Gen. S Barre's junta used to rule Hargeisa, don't you? What then makes you think you're better than Caydiid and Yey cheerleaders? You got it wrong there, I don't want to dwell on the past. Why go back to 1984 when we are at 2007? Lets look forward at 2050, were do we want our nation to be in 2050 and work towards that goal. I am saying we need to resolve our issues today, we need to look at the future and build a future for our country and ourselves. I would like to see a free, fair and just Somali government, that looks out for the interests of its citizens, a government that is free of corruption & nepotism. I would never want my country to go back to the times of Siyad Barres junta. I said and I will keep saying that we need to look at our history objectively, we need to be fair in our judgements of our leaders, we need to be critical in our thinking. We need to investigate our past, we need to understand what motivated them and why they did certain things. When we understand our past better, we will also move on quicker, we need to come to terms with our past. So to sum it up, Siyad Bare is not a hero of mine. Once he was Jaale Siyaad, aabihii garashada ....Once Oktober was, Oktoober waa daruur dilaacday oo noo da'day? But the past fading, Siyad Barre is fading away, just like the songs of kacaanka. So isn't it time to look towards the future? because whether we are prepared or not tommorow will come.

Xoogsade: Waad igu laydahay taas MMA: Its good that you edited that, I have the evidence, but there is no point for nit picking. This topic has derailed but atleast waa la soo qabtay. Soomaalinimo iyo daacadnimo hadii aan wadankeena iyo dadkeena aan u heyn, maalin walba war aad ka naxaysid ayaad maqlaysaa. Midnimo iyo wada jir un ayaa tan aan maanta ku jirno naga saaraysa. Midnimo iyo wadajirna waxaan ku gaaraynaa, hadii aan daacadnahay oo aan runta isu sheegayno, marka uurka waxa ku jira soo saara, meesha idin xanuunaysa soo bandhiga, aan ka wada hadalno aan is dawayno aan'na isku raacno wadada toosan. wadado la afduubay oo cadowga loo dhiibay ayaan ka hadlaynaa, laakiinse bari hore ayaa wadankeena la afduubay oo cadow gacanta loo galiyay anagaana taas sabab u ah. Anaga ayaa xilkeeni qaadi waynay.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^ Very sarcastic indeed yaa camel packer! But mocking aside, I need your two cents adeer..

Originally posted by Mj. bada Cas: mr. me, Adkayso, adba you refering me 'lyers' and latest my comments are 'nac nac'.rich in it's own terms isn't? So you can't back your claims up with evidence, yet keep holding on to them, that shows me with what kind of person I am dealing with You have now disqualified yourself as a conversation partner. In the future don't make claims you can't back up with evidence. ******** ******** ********* ***** Thats the differnece between you and me, I can back my statements up! [ April 26, 2007, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

I will die, thats how it will end.

Waan ku sugayaa, Badacas, come with proof to back up your claims.

Originally posted by Mj. bada Cas: Mr. me, Go to the search button on top of your page, then type 'Red Sea' select political section. Read it yourself, then come back to me. Unlike you I have a proof nor do I accuse others for no apparent reason. Don't be lazy, because I can't paste every single thread here. Badacase, thats rich, first you accuse me, then you call me lazy. I asked you come with evidence, stop the naac naac and show me the evidence. That nickname the question Dodgers team is a well deserved name I see.

Can we bring geeleena? and do they give benifits there?

Originally posted by Mj. bada Cas: quote:Originally posted by me: So again Northerner, whats your stance on Somali Unity and the Xabashi invasion in Somalia? Though that question isn't for me my 'hometown boy' let me take a wack at it. - Somali unity doesn't concern only Somaliland and somalia, it something that concerns all members of the five pointed star. As we speak, it seems to me you are stack with addressing only two. That being said, if the people in Somaliland have chosen (choice is human right) to be seperate entity, then gues what? I am 100% behind their decision, I respect it, and I will go along with it, after all that is their wish and the path which they have chosen to puruse. - Where do I stand on the Xabashi invasion? I need to not explain that I hope. From the begining til now, I have been opposing it and have come against it more than you have mr. me. This thread has been a classic for me. I have learned one valuable lesson on this thread and that is. Do not make accusations that you can not back up with evidence, I learned that the hard way and I am sharing my lessons So Badacase, you said From the begining til now, I have been opposing it and have come against it more than you have mr. me. So prove it, prove that you have opposed the the Ethiopian invasion, more then I have ( No dodging, no ducking, just prove it) On the issue of me stacking 2 of the 5 Somali entities together, well one has to start with what one has in his hands. You can not say that the people of the North West have decided to secede, because I am a part of the people from the North West and I am not in favour of secession. So you saying that the people of the North West have decided is a generalization of the worst proportion and what do you say to the people from the North central areas, who are against the secession? Who are all these people you are talking about. Do not come around here with lies, present your case in a fair way, then maybe you might get somewhere, but lying about issues like these while there are people around who have knowledge about them, makes you only look foolish. I want to start assembling my 5 pointed star on my own back yard and my back yard is called Waqooyi Galbeed, Soomaaliya

Mannnn, he trashed him bakhda ayuu ka saaray.

Originally posted by Northerner: Sorry have to go home now,,, Cool man, I need to do my work!

Xanthus, I believe that me and Northerner agree on more then we can imagine. The problem we might have and its a common Somali problem is a lack of trust. Us Somalis need to find a common ground and work from there, but the goals should be clear, because if we dont have the same goals neither of us will recah its goals, because the goals are inter linked. My ideal of Greater Somalia can't be achieved if Northerner gets his way with secessionism and Norths ideal of Independant Somalialand can't be achieved in If I get my way with Greater Somalia. So we need to find a middle ground.

Originally posted by Northerner: On unity, The closest I got to agreeing with you on unity was between June 06 and Jan 07. That should tell you more. You won't get away with that. Stop being vague. Make a real statement. Not the same old if this happens and that happens then ...maybeee.... Make a firm statement. Will you support Somali unitory state if its laws were based on Sharia laws? When will you accept Somali unitoty state?

Xanthus the pleasure was all mine, But how can you claim that the ideals of Somalism can't be achieved? What aspects of it can't be achieved? Uniting the territories? Bringing about change in the attitude of the people? Working to ensure that the Somali nation survives and becomes prosperous? Everything starts with an idea Xanthus, this is the idea. Somalis have not been surviving the past 16 years, they have been declining. To guarntee the survival of our nation, our people must first become Wehrbar The prosperity, education and the defence forces of a nation can guarantee its survival in the long run. Prosperity is not the end goal, its the mean for survival Survival

So again Northerner, whats your stance on Somali Unity and the Xabashi invasion in Somalia? This question must be hard, because you keep dodging it. The secessionists should be nicknamed the Dodgers!

Originally posted by Northerner: Never made such a claim but why doesnt the Somalist first of all recognise the stooges (those in power) are the ones doing the 'disuniting'. See how you are pointing fingers again without questioning the fact that unity cant be achieved with todays leaders in place (my earlier remarks on conditions being place etc)? Disuniting Somalia hasn’t started today or yesterday, Somalia’s disunity didn’t start with the TFG or the Ethiopian invasion. The TFG and the Ethiopian invasion are just the symptoms of this disunity. The secessionist are also a symptom of this disunity, when you recognize that we can move forward, because finger pointing at the Stooges alone won’t get our discussion any further. Somali Unity does not depend on the leaders, it depends on the will of the people, but we don’t even have to go that far. Let us talk from one man to another, let us start with ourselves, lets find our middle ground, Riyaakle, Cade Muuse, AY do not represent me, I never voted for any of them. Let us agree on something, let us unite our ideas Originally posted by Northerner: The Havnt seen you question them on their hipocracy with regard to unity and somalinimo (ie why shout unity last year and now cheers death and destruction). Other general questions maybe but not specifically relating to unity/somalinimo. The hypocrisy for the supporters of the stooges is for everyone to see and maybe you should pay more attention to my posts in the future to see how I deal with these stooges. People like these stooges are harming Somalinimo as much as the secessionists are. Like I said two wrongs don’t make a right. Originally posted by Northerner:Somali unity is a phrase thrown around without much understanding by those saying it. I'm not implying you dont understand what it means but many others simply dont. You cant be a supporter of any of the current despot leaders (Cadde, Riyalle, Yeey et al) and be shouting unity. Northerner Somali Unity is an ideal at this moment and believing in it does not require good leaders, it requires a good heart. So have faith in the coexistence of the Somali nation in one state. Have faith in all Somalis seeing each other as brothers, supporting each other wherever we are. It starts with you Northerner, it starts with the individual North, its not a top down process , it’s a bottom up process.

This is what you said originally. Originally posted by Xanthus: I also think you are misunderstood a bit as well, Slander or Secessionist as you kindly refer to them are not concerned with have a "Somalinimo" at this moment, they just think what is happening in Somalia to the Somali children/ women and largely innocent people is wrong, unjust, criminal, and the fact it is being committed by fellow Somali's (who by the way promised them peace, etc) Then you turned it into this Originally posted by Xanthus: Where did I speak in the name of anyone, let alone secessionists, again your paranoia is getting the best of you, I spoke as an individual who has views, accept it as that, don’t try to put me into one of your little box’s, there are some things that I’m liberal on, some things I’m conservative, other things I’m a nationalist etc. You not talking in the name of Slander or secessionist, Do I see here I XANTHUS BELIEVE THIS OR THAT? No I don’t. That’s why I labelled you the spokesperson of the secessionists because you took the liberty to speak in their name. Originally posted by Xanthus: Is Northerner a political figure, and who made you the judge of what is in his heart? Northerner is the guy I am having this discussing with and what’s making me doubt his intentions is I know his track record and I know that leopards don’t loose their spots. Originally posted by Xanthus:Sometimes you can take different paths to achieve the same goal, while other times you can take the same path and achieve different goals, so don’t be so narrow minded, the world is not black and white, the gray areas normal make the difference. [/QB] What goals do secessionists and unionists share for them to be able to reach it together? What I am saying is we should have a common goal to begin with otherwise we will not reach the end together. The whole point of unity is bringing our energies our forces together so that we can be more effective. If we are splintered we will not be as effective, then when we are united. Originally posted by Xanthus:What is a Somalist?? I’m Bit confused on that one, who is a somalist, what is their believes/ assumptions, Can I be a somalist? Or is an exclusive club? What makes you more somalist than me, or North?- but since you labled him as a secessionist can he not be a Somali? -Somalist is a Somali nationalist, it’s also someone who believes in Somalinimo. -Yes everybody can become that, it’s just a thought, if you find yourself in the ideals of Somalism, then you are a Somalist. -What do does a Somalist believe in? Somalist believes in Somalism and what is Somalism? Somalism: is an ideology that supports that all Somalis are equal and have equal rights, that Somalia is indivisible and that Islam is the religion of the Somalis. The homeland of the Somali Nation is the Horn of Africa. Somalism supports the reunification of all the territories inhabited by the Somali people in the Horn of Africa. The flag of the Somali Nation is azure blue with five angled star. Somalism does not recognize clans and advocated for its abolition The loyalty of the Somali should be with the Somali Nation. The Somali language, culture and heritage are unique and they should be protected from all foreign influences. Originally posted by Xanthus:What are they fighting for? I hear the usual rhetoric of Ethiopians out, Jihad etc, I certainly do not hear them shouting slogans about beating, and murdering innocent people to get political points and risk their life’s while they are at it. Rhetoric’s are one thing but one has to have tangible points, one should have goals to achieve otherwise how do you measure the success of your struggle? If they fight off the Ethiopians then what, when we kick the Ethiopians out will we get back to our little civil war? Shouldn’t we think about that too? Originally posted by Xanthus:What should we fight for? Anything but Clans, Blood lines, name etc. They should fight for peace, security, religion, and the freedom to do as they wish (and choose who they like to govern their affairs) and live without fear and without losing half of their family for nothing but due to power hungry men with guns, they sould fight for their children to go to school, get educated and developed in time. And since they are the ones fighting they should determine what is worth fighting for, mine are just my thoughts. In my opinion the common goal should be guaranteeing the survival and the prosperity of the Somali nation. Education, medical facilities, peace etc etc are just support systems for the survival of our nation.

I wouldnt put that past you, it fits the opportunistic profile The warlords and the ICU were both no secessionists are you claiming that they had the same political views? If your answer to that is a NO, then how can you claim that the Stooges and a Somalist have the same political views? The stooges get their fair share of questions from me and their case is a flimsy as the secessionists. So stop finger pointing and take a stance. Northerner where do you stand on the issues of Somali Unity and the war against the xabashis?

I am glad you came to terms with it.

Originally posted by Northerner: ^^No saxib. As i said i did not accuse you but other in you unity camp. The gallery will decide (if they have time going through three pages in midweek). Many of your threads are lengthy multiple pages. Now i know why! Xanthus, dont worry about me. He blows hot and cold as and when it suits him. And you hide in a corner waiting for that opportunity