Originally posted by Xarago: ^^Do me a favour, infact do yourself a favour. Read and learn what you believe in before you come in here quoting Oprah Winferey. Quoting who?? Oprah, I never ever read anything by her or watch her show. So no idea what you are talking about. If you know the answer to my question I would say provide it, otherwise I suggest keeping silent would be the best course of action.

Originally posted by Xarago: ^^Maskiin..! ^^ Is that the best answer you can come up with when all day you shout stone them to death?

I have one simple question. Where does it say in Islam, you have to stone a rapist? What is the proof required in Islam to convict someone of a rape? However much I conside rape to be a crime against humanity, I dont believe for one second it deserves stoning.

Good points, however, you mentioned that you believe that both the courts and warlords are just two sides of the same coin, there I might have to disagree with you as well as I am sure that the majority population of Southern Somalia would too, Mr Red Sea, there is nothing wrong on disagreeing on issues provided we don't kill each other over the disagreements! I respect your views (even when I don't agree with them) and all I would ask of you don't be put all your hopes on these guys, if hope for a better future is what you are looking for. the Courts whom you unfortunately have put the same measures as the warlords who were the prime reason for the continues problems that were occuring in Southern Somalia for the last 16 years. I have put them in the same basket as the warlords because the courts helped to maintain the warlords all these time; they were created with the blessing of the warlords and haven't heard them ever bring one warlord ever to justice. Remember they only disagreed recently and thus could well make up tomorrow and therefore continue their unholy alliance against Somali people for another 10 years if not more. I have no doubt in my mind that the courts are and will turn out for the better of ALL Somali people everywhere, only if given the chance and oppurtunity. What evidence do you have for this hope/feeling? So far all the justices that I have seen dispensed through the courts is barbaric justices and is targeted towards the weak and the poor. I have not as yet seen anyone powerful enough who has committed crimes being brought forward. Justice has to be fair and even handed. Justice is only justice when the poor/weak can get justice against the strong. So far that hasn't happened and I don't see any signs happening. Until the traffic changes direction and see the poor and the weak getting justices I would continue to treat the courts the same way I treat the warlords.

marka sxb runta Allaah ku tusiyo Wiilo Amen to that and that is what I am always striving for. Having said that, I still don't agree with you on the courts, because their type of justices isn't justices at all. Justice has to be even handed and it has rules which has to be followed; they don't do either. What these guys offer day in and day out is a form of barbarism to say the least! So for that topic we can agree to disagree if it makes you happy. But I will ask you to stay open minded and be careful in choosing the lesser of the two evils. Because the lesser evil might tomorrow and become something you cant control. OLOL sxb, mmid ayaad ka tagtay, tobanka rag ee loo diray khartuun, waxay ka koobnaayeeyn 7 ph.D holders, and 3 Masters holders.... and you are right, they were from all clans from somalia. As I said before qualification means nothing in this situation. What is needed is honesty, willingness to accept and live with other points of view without necessarily believing in them yourself. If you still happen to value qualification by that much, would you then accept my views if I were to tell you that I have all the mentioned qualification??

Originally posted by OLOL: check this out- the Islamic Courts sent 10 Somali intellectuals to the meeting. 7 of them hold Ph.D degrees and are fluent in Arabic. One more thing, they were from all clans from Somalia. That is a feat..professors and experts were sent to Khartoum..Amr Moussa even started recruiting some to work for his organization but to no luck. Somalia is more important than few Arab pennies was their response PhD holders in what?? PhD in any subject doesnt qualify one in solving complex issues like those facing Somalia today. Somalia needs people who are honest and know how to live with people who hold different views to them. So remember no Prof or expert could solve our problems but ourselves

"The author seems to be pro-Islamic courts" Mr Red Sea, the author is confused, his article is full of contradiction and he is very far from 'pro-Islamic courts'. I have to say from outset I dont support anyone in this conflict as they are all the same to me, all are criminals in my eyes. I dont believe in choosing the lesser of two evils. The confusion of the author raises from his desire to use the ICU and at the same time hating everything they stand for. and a hiding place for terrorism. He alleges Mogadishu has become a hiding place for terrorist. Where is the evidence for that?? What is more for someone who is supporting the ICU or even believe in their cause wont utter such words. As the warlords who held the country hostage for more than 15 years found themselves cornered they cried wolf, succeeding to exploit Washington's paranoia of Islamic extremism in the region. Here he shows his hate for the warlords and shows us how they got American support. For someone who said Mogadishu has become a hiding place for terrorist wont have said the above unless he is confused and dont believe it has become the hiding place he alleges! The Al Ittihad Al Islami, an organization suspected by Washington of having links with Al Qaeda, was found to be behind the killings of foreign aid workers in Somaliland, the self-declared state over looking the Gulf of Aden. Armed militants arrested in Hargeisa confessed that they had been taking orders from Ahmed Hashi Ayro, an Afghan trained militant and a senior commander of the ICU forces. Ayro is also accused of being behind the digging up of the old Italian cemetery in Mogadishu and dumping human remains in garbage pits. Another senior ICU commander and head of one of the courts, Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys, who is on Washington's wanted list, is also former leader of the Al Ittihad Al Islami. There are also worries that the ICU may whip up Islamic dissent in the hitherto peaceful and stable states of Puntland and Somaliland as well as neighboring Ethiopia, Djibouti and Kenya. After having used the ICU and now he turns against them. This guy the last thing he ever wants is a government claiming to be Islamic! Both ICU and the warlords of the south are people his dislikes in equal measures. Those are my two cents for this article

Originally posted by Wiilo: Go figure:..... I figured out Wiilo!!! This guy is no different from the rest of the warlords except he is using the name of Islam. If you read his answers carefully you will see he is not answering any questions. They are all the same....

Originally posted by Rahima: ^It’s all about who supports the ones that they have fallen to! Who supports them then? Dont tell me God plz cause I dont think/believe God supports killers.

Define fascism first and I will then tell you whether is good or bad.

“Having met all the conditions above, a judge has no choice but to admit such confession as evidence.†I would suggest Castro give the judge a chance then to admit it and in the meantime chill.

I think you be right Pi, I am might be thanking too early! But I hope not and let us hope that is the last of it. I will let you guys work out your velocities! Also I don’t see the connection of velocity here anyway.

Is good to be back Viking. Paragon, keep up the good work and thanks for making my life easier! I would have had to aurge with him and now you saved me all that time.

Originally posted by Paragon: Just Cause, my pressumption is that (judging from the years spent on the subject) you are a physicist. Am I close to getting it right? What can I say other than you are right!

Castro et al, you people who are claiming to wanting to educate the masses here, you are behaving no different from the people you wanting to educate. What happened to innocent till proven guilty? Due process?? Do any of these concepts that are important to a justice system mean anything to you? Surely this guy entered into not guilty plea and until the system finds him guilty he is as innocent as any one of us. Let the state prove he is guilty, I am sure the jury wont consider his clan or age in their deliberation. Therefore, people wait till then. “I am sure even the blindest of the blind can accept this and thus must also accept he is GUILTY. Not necessarily in the eyes of a kufar but to Allah who sees all.†First, I don’t accept he is guilty (till proven so) but then again you did say only the blindest and the blind can accept this! Well sorry to disappoint you, I am neither and hence cant accept his guilty till he was given his day in court. Allah takes care of justices in the next world and in this world, is you and I who issues justices, whether we follow Allah’s laws or our own man made laws. Either way is us, who is in control here and so let Allah take care of his in the next world.

Thanks Paragon! Here I was thinking we have a scientific philosopher in the house but it turns out we have a plagiarist. I was just baffled, the way he was going left and right, on a subject matter I spend more than 10 years of my life dealing with.

Atlas, I am confused and baffled by what you are trying to say here. You seem to touch everything and yet say nothing! I will just ask you to please clarify for me a couple of points. “In cosmology I do not have an integrated theory as I do with quantum and relativistic phenomena.†What do you mean by that? â€When we observe -- as was done not long ago -- a coherent structure some 600 million light years across, and some 6.5 billion light years away, and realize that its existence cannot be accounted for so early in the cosmic history of the supposed Big Bang†Why not?? “There are other (lesser known) theories which interpret the observed red-shift to imply something else other than increasing velocity.†Finally do tell us about these lesser known theories and why are they not accepted by the larger scientific community?

"Let justice be done, though the heavens fall." I think we are all missing the point here! Let the man have his day in court and carry out our post mortem analysis later in the day. There are two sides here and how do we who is right or wrong before the full evidence is heard in a court of law?? Thus, I say we are all jumping on the bandwagon, be it popular one or not. So I say for now, let us all chill and save our arguments right after we heard all the facts of the case and the jury returns its verdict. Disclaimer, I don’t know the defendant, never heard of him or the case before reading it here today. I am not related to anyone involved in this case to the best of my knowledge. The only interest I might have in the case is, to see justice served.

“The entire universe functions on deterministic course with exception of quantum mechanics field. Invariant natural laws of the universe make this possible. Nature is driven by invariant natural laws, no room for 'chance'.†Socod_badne, I am a bit confused with the above statement of yours, could you clarify it further please? The universe is built from quarks, leptons and so on. Since quantum mechanics applies to these particles, why shouldn’t quantum laws apply to the whole of the universe? I will just say now and don’t have the time to expand on it, that we live in non-deterministic universe! Don’t be like Einstein and say, “God doesn’t play dice with the universe!â€.

Originally posted by ofleh: quote:The killing of innocent people cant be justified at all. It is justified everyday on the BBC, CNN and every other western medium in the name of freedom and democracy. I do watch the media outlets you mentioned on daily basis and I haven’t come across them justifying violence in any name. Unless you can tell me specifics, where and when they have done so. And I've never seen you get all hot and bothered to condemn their daily bombings. I condemn all bombing wherever they do take place around the world but you are right I dont come here on daily basis and condemn them all. I have and will condemn this in the strongest possible way I can cause is closer to home and it effect me and those I love. What is more, I have to show my condemnation to the community I live with, whatever grievances I might have with the British Foreign policy. I reject violence in its entirety and reject it whoever commits it. I never supported the Iraq war and nor do I support the violence that is taking place in there today. Today I agree with Mr Blair in what he said, even though I do disagree with him on certain issues. I too am worried about the consequences of this for Muslims in the UK. First, what the Muslim community have to show is their condemnation for this attack and deal with the rest later.

Originally posted by ofleh: Tony Blair is a war criminal. His words are meaningless as they are meant to deceive and not comfort. People often forget that the UK is engaged in a brutal, unjust and "illegal" invasion of Iraq. Ofleh whatever you feel about Mr Blair, this bombing cant be used to justify that. The killing of innocent people cant be justified at all. The question is, do you support this boming? If not, why not then condemn it and leave your believe of Mr Blair for another day?

Rahima, whether you do believe or not the PM, what he said is what all of us should feel and believe at this hour, regardless of who carried this attack. Rather than most of us speculating who did this and what will the fate of Muslims in the UK will be, instead we should all condemn this bombing whole heartily. There is no excuse for bombing innocent people whoever might have carried this. It goes to show these people have no respect for human lives. Now is the time to condemn this and all of us we should stand united in rejection of terrorism.

Originally posted by Athena: This is too shameful. I agree with the above and Condemn this bombing whoever might have carried it. I couldnt have put it better than the PM did when he gave his statmen to the bombing. "It is important that those engaged in terrorism realise that our determination to defend our values and our way of life is greater than their determination to cause death and destruction to innocent people in a desire to impose extremism on the world. Whatever they do, it is our determination that they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear in this country and in other civilised nations throughout the world." My thoughts and prayers are with the victims of this horrible bombing.

Where is the evidence? Just because a lot of Sub-Saharan Africans dying isn't evidence on it is own. Also talking of population, Africa isn't that populated to concern anyone that much to go and release this deadly virus on them. So before we dwell in the land of the conspiracy theories, I would suggest we examine the evidence on hand that is meant to support these claims.So where is the evidence!? Isn't, President Thabo Mbeki, the same person who tried to down play the number of people who are effected by HIV? Also didn't he dispute the link between HIV and AIDS. So how can we trust anything that is said by such a person? I believe both Presidents (Mbeko and Moi) failed their people on this issue and so tried to use the race card or whatever card they get their hands on. President Thabo Mbeki, even went further to defend his ill thought policies of combating AIDS by saying, he 'did not personally know anyone who had died from Aids'. What difference does it make whether he personally knew people who died from AIDS or not??

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^^^ Is he? How? :confused: Because Qudhac disagrees with him! But instead of telling us, how and why, he throws a one liner which he believes is bound to stick and accuse him/her what the author is rejecting! I am sure otherwise Qudhac would have backed up his points.