^^^LOL sxb, we changed times here. last time they changed to eastern time zone couple months ago I was late to work-slow walaahi i dont watch the news, and yesterday my boss reminded me time changing again it should be 11:30 but its 10:30 :confused: whats crazy is how fast time is going :eek: two months until 2007 :eek: walee the hadith is true, I feel like leaving everything school-work going to Jordan my favorite country, enter masjid, praying all the time, marry 4 wives, and have 20 kids ahh the good life :cool:

Colts can have homecourt advantage dont matter, they are not a playoffs team. They get cold feat or something, WTF is wrong with dem when it comes to the playoffs? :confused: I would enjoy if the bears took it all this year, old dynasty! ps: there is no baseball thread :confused: guess no one likes baseball my favorite sport here?

Originally posted by Socod_badne: quote:Originally posted by Khalaf: but about the more important questions I raised mainly: who is morally superior the West or Islamic Ummah? Define morals first. Mores: a set of codes-norms, values, behaviors or customs a given society-community accepts, agrees with, and promotes for its individuals to follow. Morality referes to “right and wrong”. eg Its wrong to murder, rape, steal. Originally posted by NGONGE: I’ve known men that get aroused by the sight of daring eyes ! Maybe it’s best that we lock women up and never let them out of their houses lest they corrupt our fragile souls. Or, better still, maybe we should lock ourselves up! Adeer better still: we adhere to Islamic principles of modesty. That is the core message of the Imam I believe. Its unfortunate making this about “arousal” ninyahow, and looking past the more important issue: how the mores promoted by Islam and those promoted by the west affect society. Ngonge adeer one may look at a fully covered women and wonder about the mystery, but if you are honest sxb the portrait which she depicts (religious-respect) will influence your behavior towards her in a positive way, you cant deny that man. Modesty in dress and ethics does protect society (eg from zina), just compare the libral west to the Muslim countries.

Originally posted by Cara: We can't get past it because the issue hasn't been resolved. If the good sheikh was trying to protect women, then why does he condemn the judge who sentenced rapists to prison? Cara I know, but what I am trying to do is get an important discussion out of this. One I don’t trust the media, I give ppl the benefit of the doubt. Two all of us have condemned those remarks. It is unjust and unIslamic to blame the one robbed for the robbery period! But lets not make the discussion about him (we said nuff), but about the more important questions I raised mainly: who is morally superior the West or Islamic Ummah? Which Islamic system? Since I'm sure you will be using actual Western countries to represent secular democracies, which Islamic country will we use as an example of the ideal Islamic system? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Egypt? My answer is that these countries are far from the ideals of Islam. However even with this clear truth that these countries are far from the ideals of Islam, on the issues of morality they are still superior then the West. What are your thoughts on questions I rasied now that we got that out of the way?

Again ppl can we move passed his comments and answer the questions which were raised: which protects the women and in large the society from immorality: Islamic system or western system? ^^^^That is what the sheikh was getting at, he just wasnt smart with words and metaphors!

1.We are not focusing on the bigger picture here which I think the sheikh was trying to convey, his words were “lost in translation” , give a Muslim benefit of the doubt peeps, we don’t know his intentions aight. 2. Look deeper into the message (ie Ahura puhlease nooh) and the question his sermon raises: which protects the women and in large the society from immorality: Islamic system or western system? Does this culture-the West produce these vices/crimes-adultery, rape, divorce, illigite children, molestation, ect ect? Yes most men and women will and can control lust/desires, but you most be fair and recognize in a society such as the west laidback on issues of morality (sex, nudity, ect praised and paraded) there is a greater danger of falling into sin. Your thoughts on the points raised. Lets move passed men should show restraint, and take accountability no one is arguing against that ,no need to bring it up all da time! JZK.

Originally posted by Lieutenant Xalane: Khalaf ,heedhe now its u who misunderstood adeer.Gabadha is asking about the reactions sxb,how u react to them 'uncovered women' since in one way or the other,u would have to interact with them. This is gonna land me in to trouble,i already can see an incoming fire. [/QB] What I am talking about is society and solving its problems-in this case sexual violence against women. Islam unlike christianity believes ppl are inherently good, and it is satan that deceives them. To protect against satan Allah has told us what rules to follow. Its natural ninyahow to be excited by women-men were created weak nooh. That is why Allah has said the women should cover themselves, we should lower our gaze, women shouldnt travel alone, not be alone with women, and we should marry early, ect. This solves problems. Um out. Good day my ppl.

Originally posted by Valenteenah: Most of you live in the West. You probably interact with women who don't wear a hijab through work or school, or you sit next to them on trains or you buy stuff from them in the shops. If you get aroused at every turn or if you can't control urselves, then why don't we see more of you chasing 'uncovered' women around town with your weenies? Eh? Ridiculous and illogical, is all I can say. [/QB] Because we are not those whom the Quran describes as "those whose hearts there is a disease". But there are sick dudes that is why Allah has prescribed hijab for both men and women. Preventive measures. Agree with it or not, that is what the religion teaches.

Originally posted by Cara: Khalaf, Could you tell us where you're getting the rape rates please? This figure sums up rape stats in the US since the 70's. According to it, rapes have gone down drastically, even as women continue to dress provocatively (and yes, as the porn industry booms): Why are there rapes decreasing, in America, despite most women not wearing burkas? Does your chart prove anything? 59% of rapes go unreported. America is has the largest cases of rape: Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the U.S. Department of Justice, this is result of their immoral culture. And this is in America which has law enforcement, judicial system, resources, what about the countries who have none of this in place? Do you think it would be safe for women to walk the streets in mini-skirt? No that is why hijabed is prescribed, mahram, islamic guidelines which protects the women.

"I have not left behind me any temptation more harmful for men than women." ( Al-Bukhari and Muslim). LX you are missing the point sxb, the women are talking about accountablity about mans actions. Men are accountable if they commit crime woman has no blame, she is not shamed, its not in her power and the sucker should be hanged-period. But there are sick ppl in this world as the Quran says: "those in whose hearts their is disease", thus islam sets guidelines. Cara says a woman is safer in NY bull, America is rich country, with all these resources, government, and women are raped every three mintues according to statistics! What about places where there is poverty, corruption? Walk down the street in mini skirt some sucker comes tell him "please mister be a man take resposbility." Dont work like that. Thus Allah has set guidelines for your protection.

Originally posted by Cara: Khalaf, that's the bottom line, eh? Cara the bottom line, don’t be mistaken. I asked the brother a question regarding his statement. There is no aim...and the brother is a joker I think . as Muslims we have high principals. Islam is a mercy to mankind and the Muslims are just to all and protect the weak. When I think about a Muslim army in jihad what comes to mind is when the Nabi scw and 10,000 Mujhideen entered Mecca victorious against their enemies who had tortured them, killed many of them, chased them out of their lands for many years .What did they do when they had full power? They entered the city with heads bow downed in humility, they took no revenge, they burned down no building no home, they never touched an innocent women of the fallen side, but instead they preceded to the Kabba destroyed the false gods, declared Mecca as City of One God and assured that all in Mecca are safe and will not be harmed in the least. Many converted to Islam because of the mercy of its followers-who were commanded by Allah: "O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness;.... O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah and be just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Well¬Acquainted with what you do. ^^^^That is Islam. A mercy to Mankind.

Originally posted by Cara: Alle-Ubaahne, you're clearly a deeply disturbed man. Seek help. Khalaf, perhaps you should re-read the entire text of the sermon before you defend al-Hilali. I'm particularly interested in how you reconcile the following passage with your conviction that the Mufti was not excusing rapists: quote: “But when it comes to this disaster, who started it? In his literature, writer al-Rafee says, if I came across a rape crime, I would discipline the man and order that the woman be jailed for life. Why would you do this, Rafee? He said because if she had not left the meat uncovered, the cat wouldn’t have snatched it.” “If you get a kilo of meat, and you don’t put it in the fridge or in the pot or in the kitchen but you leave it on a plate in the backyard, and then you have a fight with the neighbor because his cats eat the meat, you’re crazy. Isn’t this true?” Honestly. Isn't it true? Thanks for pointing that out, I didn’t read that part, it wrong and rejected. The victim is never to blame and has no fault weather covered or not. I have said that all along and every decent bani adam would agree. We are missing the bigger picture however and that is does this promiscuous-immoral society-the West which devalues the women and presents her sexually (biggest industry is what?-yeah the porn industry) produce crime against women? I think it does: what like every 3 minutes a women is raped in the states.

^^^^Ouch Ouch! Men and Women will never understand each other. Khalas Khalas! I surrender! Believe me sister though, the religious brothers will be the first ones to protect the women....and hang mutha who harms women. What is happening in so called muslim countries like Pakistan that blames the women is culture not Islam. I thought I made sense but guess not. damn!! I blame oprah for your thinking!!! :mad:

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne: Are you denying the fact that Allah gave us the permission to enjoy the benefit of the jihaad, among which is to enjoy their women without nikaax? Now it makes sense!!! You are funny sxb!! Question: What if they the ethopian women refuse? What is the rule on that?

The worst creature, threat to Islam? Thats an exagrattion nooh. Do you feel this way about jihad? Where is the passion when concering the masscures of other Muslims who are not somali? Every Muslim is a brother, not just those who are somali. Yusuf has a legacy right or wrong and he will be judged by Allah the end...thats not praise because i praise no human-being only Allah is worth Praise. a man makes a legacy in his country walks what he preaches but doesnt talk...most somalis are left with talk when it comes to politics.

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne: And May Allah humiliate your vicious, warlord uncle, Abdullahi Yuusuf, aameen. Have you ever met him and his lovely wife...a good woman BTW? There good ppl, I dont agree with his policies but he didnt seem like bad man...bad choices maybe. May Allah Guide him to straight path i say. No matter what ppl say about him, the man is his own man he is a libax a solider he has his legacy, he is in the history books just as Sayyid Barre (allahu naxristrio) agree with dem or not.....but other somalis got only talk.....make a legacy in your country and leave the habarta for the women.

Originally posted by Valenteenah: The hijab doesn't save women from rape. A man who is willing to rape will rape, regardless of what the woman is wearing. But is it always a useful tool- blaming the actions of men on women. Further, looking at a woman passing by isn't the same as raping a woman. Most men look at women, whether she is wearing a hijab or not, but they are not all instantly enticed into carrying out rape, are they? Unless you are saying Muslim men have zero control, which would equate them with monkeys and goats. First we are not talking about Muslim men but men in general. Quran had laid down laws to be followed for both men and women, I am sure you know this, if these laws are followed this reduces crime. Most men and I know men my sister don’t look at a women with hijab and one who is not hijabed the same way. I see it around campus all the time, and um sure you have seen it also thus there is no reason to say a covered women and uncovered women are treated the same in this regard-uncovered women are looked at sexually while covered women are not. About rapes, I don’t believe the Imam is making excuse for the men and blaming it on the women. As I have said and um sure u would agree not all men are noble, there will be some who prey on the weak-women. Look at the statistics, large percentage like 60% of college male students said they would rape if they were assured of not getting caught. Thus this behavior is present in males the Quran has said men were created weak that is why it is important to follow the rules of Islam especially for the women. Originally posted by Valenteenah: As a Muslim woman, listening to or accepting such clearly misogynistic rhetoric is out of the question. It's akin to listening to the views of a hard-core racist when you are black. To put it mildly, it's hardly likely that they would have your best interests at heart. I hope he is fired from his post. I don’t understand where your anger is coming from. He is not blaming the women, he is talking about human nature-which is without fear of Higher Being or the law would abuse their powers and take advantage of the weak-the women in most cases. I am sure we will not agree. Its like the women who says men and women are equally strong but if for example their house is broken into she gets scared and tells her husband to check on it. peace to u.

^^^brother Allah is with the righteous...and haaq will prevail the wicked and righteous will be sepearted...but in this confusion of somali politics to be real all I can say is Allah Knows Best! But I have advice for you sxb: patience is important and you lack that from your writing. Remember when Abu Sufiyan was asked who wins the battles between you and Muhammad pbuh, he replied we win some and they win some. So my brother even the Prophet pbuh lost battles, it is important to be patient and seek in Allahs Help and Fear Allah Most. When the Muslims went to battle, there greatest fear was not the enemy but by committing disobedience to Allah and doing unjustice. Second what do you consider to be a success? Is it the defeat of TFG? That is small thinking.....anything less then true Islamic state is failure and Ethiopia, TFG, Somalia disputes don’t matter, we all know who controls the game and where the battle is raging.

^^^^Its more heoric postion dont you think to go to somalia and support these forces? When are you going sxb?

Cara 1. There is nothing wrong with asking the ulama about religion, they are learned and have dedicated many years of their life learning and studying the religion. As in any subject you ask those who are educated more then you, but they are human and can make mistakes. As Umar ra used to say follow me as long as I follow the Quran and Sunnah, thus listen to the ulama as long as they follow the Quran and Sunnah. 2. I don’t understand what you mean by “manufactured need”. Originally posted by Valenteenah It's sad for Muslim society that learned men have become advocates for rapists and adulterers. ] Ahura I think you are misunderstanding. All the Imam said was these women who uncover and show their bodies do attract negative attention. Just look at when a woman with revealing clothing walks by men look at her back and front and compare it to the reaction a covered women gets no one looks at her sexually. He is not making excuses for rapists or adulterers, he is talking about human nature. If women is half-naked or fully covered no one has right to bother her period. but in the real world there are predators and they will prey on the weak ie the women. You cant deny this. That is why Allah Most Great has informed the women that they should cover themselves so they will not be annoyed. Yes even covered women are annoyed-we’ve heard of covered women being raped-but this is unusual. Also the women should have mahram with them and not go to places where they are likely to be harassed-parties, clubs, alcohol served, following the shariah would significantly reduce crime against women. And if there is rape do Mullah Omar style hang the mutha in public.

Originally posted by Cara: That's really sad. He's not capable of serving the spiritual needs of granite boulders. [/QB] 1. Muslims dont need a spirtual leader to serve their "spiritual needs". We have the Quran and Sunnah, sheikhs are just preachers they dont feel spiritual void, no interression in Islam. Its between you and Allah Most High. 2. You realize human beings do have spiritual needs.

Passion are prayers worked huh. I remember you had hard time with school. Mashallah you stuck with it, as they say nothing good is easy. Congrats!

There is truth in what the Mufti said but he was not smart with metaphors comparing women to meat your asking for beat down He should've used better language, historical facts, how the indecency and immorality in western culture is producing vice ect....and how Islam can solve those problems. Bad move for him. Not cool.

I dont remember ninyahow to be exact. I dont think I refered to ppl as securarists or members here....but from my observations at least among somalis I know, my reer adeer iyo reer abti (Barre's clan), I do believe many oppose the ICU for qabil reasons.....thats what I hear: THey (insert clan) change shirts acting religious. Walaahi its like they cant put in their heads that these men could be sincere. But the wadaads of my reer adeer iyo reer abti support the courts, and so far I think they are the best men, but Allah Knows Best. ^^^I think thats what i may have said. peace to you brother.

Originally posted by Allamagan: ^^^cool down brother, why confuse, Br. Suleymaan gave his sincere naseexa to everyone who ignorantly bashing this great man, so it is up to you if you wanna take it or leave it. Or otherweis go ahaed and join the camp O-ray and do Barre a favour if you know what am mean. It is people like you he is giving naseeha, who wrongfully call other muslims secularists. Is fiiri adiga marka hore walaal deedna isasax, kadibna walaalahaa kale waani. 1St brother I have difficulty reading af somali, inshallah getting better though. 2nd what on the bold? :confused: brother is not giving me naseeha (adivce)...because I dont need it since i never talked about anyone, but i do find this hypcritical because a Muslim is for justice and should extend that courtesy to all not be selective, and that is why I asked our brother. So you calm down and let him answer.