Originally posted by xiinfaniin: [QB] Folks leave Cara alone. I am sure Khalaf means good. But I doubt these sort of duals are productive and achieve any meaningful goals. I do mean good always!......dis reminds me of the topic on pro-gay books in which NG told us homonimo wa natural and there is no logical explanation for the banning of gaynimo! What does good xiin do, defend NG and say that was a innocent statement on his part and lets just stay with the orginal topic and ignore NG's wrong unislamic statement, moreever good xiin goes against the only dude that was defending the Muslim stance! thats not the topic however, but xiin plays to the crowd hmmm i dont know. Anyway adeer u maybe right that there wont be anything meaninful in this topic, its been tried before and cara has been out debated alreadly! But i was looking for sincere dilogue. I only find it funny when one makes a statement of such mangitude in this arnea of Muslims (i was believer now think islam is false not religions remember but Islam) and is asked to present to the "gallerly" why that is so, each time and everytime cops out.... personal miya? hahhaha i think not.

Originally posted by Cara: You guys want to know my reasons? Either wait for the book like I said, OR navigate to the first page of this thread and read the list of reasons Khalaf gave. No heart-rending story forthcoming. No personal vendetta against Islam. I'm sorry to burst your bubble Khalaf, but to me Islam is just a faith like all the other faiths. The onus is on you to explain why it's so special. If you want to show why atheism is false, go ahead. You specifically opened this thread with a list of reasons for atheism, a list which you said was laughable. Yet you have as yet to explain why the list strikes you as so ridiculous. Anytime someone tries to pin you down you run and hide under Nur's macawis and claim ignorance. Grow up. Whats with the vulgarity talk? Is it because u know I wont hit u back like PI huh? I respect my brother Nur, I aint fag to hide under another mans macawis but I would be honored to be in his company. As ive said that list is laughable to the Muslim perspective and will easily be refuted inshallah! But this is not the first topic of its kind that Ive witnessed in which u have been debated yaa cara. And each time (as Ive done here repeatedly) since u openly declared to us here that you logically rejected the islamic aqeedah, then kindly bring forth not your personal reasons/lifestory, but your arguments against the Islamic Aqeedah (Islamic Concept of God). That is a fair request, but over and over again u are unable to counter the Islamic aqeedah, why I ask U? No one is interested in ur personal story, but your refutation against the Islamic Aqeedah, not religions. And to say Islam is just like any other faith, proves my point and the relevance of asking you to bring your outline/knowledge on Islam. All religions are not the same, that is a wrong generalization and u know it: however all religions with the exception of Islam have something in common in that they worship creation (ie Jesus), it is only Islam that follows Tawhid and conforms not contridict the laws of the universe, “reason” “logic” ect ect...........hence why all the atheists/agonistics that have rejected God based on reason/science come from non-Islamic backgrounds, however the former Muslims agonistics are mearly the AYanHirisis that have beef with social norms and never against the aqeedah-tawhiid. Am I not making sense here, I think I am. Catlayst I dont care for "converting" ppl, that is not my hands, I find it interesting these so called former muslims never put up an argument/outline against the Islamic Aqeedah, but refer to religions in the general sense.

There was no point to join that discussion, it wasnt the first nor the last, as far as im concerned regarding those types of topics cats can claim to be decendents of whomever they want, more power to em. What I found odd was u Catalyst here seem like an athiest on one hand and on the other was a staunch defender of Islamic history (a pointview), using Muslim history and sources. but to remind u it was u who ran away from that debate http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=009078;p=2#000017 . As for me, I am humble and have long way to increase my almi nor am I the most knowlegeable person here, thus no shame in admiting that especially when the likes of brother Nur are on here for them to take the lead. I only put up this topic and highlighted, this has been done before these former Muslims as they call themselves never adress the Islamic Aqeedah (concept of God in Islam-tawhiid). Why I wonder? Mida Kale anyone can give long essays of argumentation and paste articles to argue their case, but that was not my intention, my interest was for once the former Muslims here as they call themselves to put forth an arguement against Islamic aqeedah since they have never done so, we will then be able counter it and overall show why atheism is false.

Cara, the analogy of Ms. Hirsi was only to show never have the former muslims as they call themseleves put for an argument against the aqeedah of Islam. It is only fair request, and not personal nor is attacking others and putting others down, but simply showing why Islam aqeedah is false since as they say they former Muslims. Why the relectancy to debate against the Islamic aqeedah (concept of God in Islam)? Catlyst is same cat that was arguing somalilanders are eyul bayt, saying Hassan ra left children and using false shiate sources, hes lies have proven wrong by Mr. Yoonis...i wouldnt take him seriously. But everything/evidence points to a creator sxb. And athiesm theory has been proven to be false by logic, reason, scientfic evidence! And question will be for u which religion is right? Amiin to ur dawah Brown.

Originally posted by NGONGE: [QB] quote: Originally posted by Cara: Khalaf and Cambarro , maybe I'll write a book and I'll be sure to send you advance copies You are Ayaan Hirsi and I hereby claim my spotter's prize. Allow me to make this point, since infamous Ms. Hirsi is brought up! The Ayan Hirsis and the other celebrated “muslim” apostates all have something in common in their lame “intellectual” critic ummm insults against deenul Islam. Their criticism always centers on the Muslims (followers) themselves (FGM, honor killings, oppression of women, terrorism, ect ect ect) rather then the aqeedah (tawhiid, concept of God) of this religion! Now why is that so, I wonder? Keep in mind none of these famous former muslims as they call themselves have never or will ever debate learned Muslims who can easily refute all their false charges against Islam. But who can blame them? Certainly insulting Islam and its followers have provided them the gateway to remarkable achievements: big money, booksells, fame, high ranking positions ect ect ect. What’s the point of honestly debating learned Muslims and reaching solutions/understanding when da O’Riely's are calling u over there? everyone wants to know about those "bad" Muslims (n only muslims) dheh! Again I have never seen those former Muslims (nor the ones here-that give us da usual about “gods” ect ect) put forth any argument against the Islamic Aqeedah (tawhiid-the Concept of God in Islam). Certainly this should be an easy task since they were once "believers"..

looooooooooooooooooooooooooool@ repeating da: “the large clan family I shall not mention it's name.”, “the large clan whose name I cannot and shall not mention here.” Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool, its official my favorite nigga here is Yoonis kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk check dis we are talking about “crowing” kings and royalty and Somalia is the poorest nation in the da world, cant even feed it’s ppl!.........hahhaahahahahaha dis shit is hilarious! My hats off to ya brothers kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

^^ maxa haxnaqa ina adeer? Everyone has an opinion no? I gave u mine, not sermon but an opinion nooh marka relax. Mida kale i did offer "help", it seems your friend fears this professor.....shouldnt fear human beings but stay frim in your beliefs and defend it.... good day.

"P.S. Please don't quote the excerpts I quoted above. I will have to delete them after a week just in case. I don't want them floating around the net for someone to find (better 2 be safe)." ^^^^looooooooool that was the funniest part.....no disrespect intended but u and ur friend should fear Allah more.....what can they do to u horta that u fear? If she worries about her career then it is only Allah that can provide, thus fear Allah Alone...... trust ppl respect u more when u stand up strong na mean. What a fun professor! (this is a resident professor or visiting speaker?).......wish dat was my class! Good luck to ur saxibta.

"This will save time, since IF I were to explain my reasoning, you will either declare that I never understood Islam to begin with, or that I'm clearly lying and do not have a Muslim background. Obviously there's no way you will say........." Try me Cara! It seems the one who has fixed ideas about the other is you Cara, I have no ulterior motives here, am sincere in wanting to understand and have dialogue. As ive said those reasonings I posted are from a non-Muslim background, u can tell and we will address them inshallah. This is not a personal thing nor putting u on trial, to each his/her way! But you’ve said u was once a Muslim, marka before we proceed since this arena is a Muslim one: tell us how u understood the Islamic belief system (Quran, Creator, ect) as a Muslim back then, and present your case/reasons on why/how u came to the conclusion it is wrong way? I think its fair request, and dont understand da big deal here....lets be upfront for once nothin personal.....but your case against not religion (da "gods/supernatural" ect) but specfically deenul Islam. Thanks.

"Of the reasons you've listed, which one is most laughable in your view? The thing about matters of belief and conviction, little changes when people hold opposing views." Naden all those reasons (with the exception of why there is evil in the world-dis is understandable,) are laughable, in particular looking at those reasons (which are the building blocks of atheism/agnostism of the Christian/Jewish backgrounds) in the light of the Quranic perspective. Mida Kale My objective in this topic was not to change anything or anyone that’s not my way or in my hands, but for once on an important topic to have an honest discussion, not a debate going in circles where cats put on their ear plugs singing blah blah blah but a real dialogue, understanding between the two parties, this can only happen if we are all willing to honestly participate and not put up a wall. It has been tried before, but failed because the discussion focused more on discrediting, outdebating, your opponent then understanding, listening, and reasoning with each other sincerely. Can that be done?, lets find out um sure most probably think its not worth the effort talking to those who doubt and our own good brother Nur (come back yaa akhi) the most knowledgeable person here has tried this before to no avail. But with do respect to him (since I know atheists/agonist ppl) he went about it the wrong way. Objective for this topic (and I hope Nur returns, and more knowledge nomads then I participate) is two: 1. Yaa Cara lets meet each other half way. U know when school starts the 1st month is the introduction to the subject at hand and familiarizing yourself with the subject. U always ask and off the bat for proof (baam! that’s like going straight into the mid-terms), inshallah we shall do that, dissect the atheist/agonstic reasoning one by one, but since the religious side makes the effort to answer your questions its only fair don’t u think not to put on your ear plugs n also participate and likewise answer their questions? Um not asking your “lifestory”, but your reasoning to go from once a fairy devout Muslim as u say to reject Islam all together. Tell us: how u understood/(knowledge of) about the Islamic belief system in particular your view of the Creator-Allah as a Muslim back then, and why u decided one day Islam was not right? Not your one liners on hard to rationalize "da gods" supernatural as u often say, but take us back and take us inside the head of "Muslim Cara." I think that is fair request to first ask before we proceed, if indeed you are honest here. 2. I have listed the main reasons for agonistic/atheistic stance, let the Muslim Nomads here inshallah counter those reasoning one by one with Quranic Proofs/Answers. Remember its not about convincing people, but showing to the world why Islam Alone is haaq. Can that be done yaa jamcatal islaamiya? Sidenote: Yaa before name/noun ect is an Arabic thing, not xiinow.....one can learn a lot from xiin..........a word I did pick up from xiin tho is the saying of adeer, makes me feel like a odey-garaad :cool: .......Xiin adeer take part in this topic fadlan, and the other knowledgeable brothers/sisters.........if u do think its “fruitful disucussion”....or maybe its better to say lakum diinukum waliya diin.

Yaaa cara don’t listen to hype, nothing is more interesting then religion iyo politics during conversations makes it dat more interesting nooh. Cara u have the wrong idea about me and I suspose religious minded ppl in general, I have no fixed ideas about u, nor do I wish u harm or hell as u may think, I wish u the best of khayr which I do believe is of course Islam. I believe as Muslim it is Allah Alone that guides whom He Wills and sends astray Whom He Wills, marka it is not my agenda to “convert” u, all I want is to understand. as ive said I have agonistic/atheist friends and its much easier to converse on personal level since this is about convictions/faith or lack thereof wit someone face to face then I suppose on forum. I think its only fair if we want sincere discussion and understanding between all of us, to know for once your background as a once upon a time Muslim, how u used to believe back then and what made u come to ur current conclusions now. The discussion (not a debate remember) has no value in my view if one end (religious end) only preaches w/out understanding the personal stance/background of the other end. For example to provide solutions (as u challenge) to any situation you most know the (level) of the subject in which u are dealing with. We thus far do not know about ur views on Islam and ur believes as a once muslim. Its only fair don’t u think? As for more capable hands, as Muslim I am quite scared of making mistakes in matter of deen, that is why my way has always been taking the roles of two friends having a discussion about certain issues. Inshallah u will be a willing participate yaa Cara, remember discussion not a debate. and inshallah others will add to this disscussion. good nite

^^^I disagree with that notion, most of those reasons if not all dont pretain to Islam. but before we get into that (not sure um the one to do this nor do i want to honestly would like the more knowledge bros/sisters to take the lead inshallah), but i am interested if u can share with us ur background (as a muslim back then) since u say u were raised and once was a Muslim right, ur decision to reject belief in God? remember from an islamic prespective since u were once muslim. imagine we were at Saafri Express resturant in MN, having lunch and having this talk?

^^^U got my vote brah, and May Allah bless ur business inshallah and prosper na mean, um sure compitetion is high in MN, marka good luck to u....no offense but no one can touch my hooyo homecooking....somali food needs update na mean....good appitisers/deserts/ never fruits/salads/greens......mediterian food (turkish) top notch....again best of luck bro.

Salaamu Alaykum, I put this in general section due to the larger audience, and more viewpoints inshallah. I don’t know bout yall but many ppl I come across at uni/work are doubters and don’t follow organized religion as they call it, and good friends too na mean. Here are the main reasons for their doubts (the doubters here can add to this list). Some on da list is laughable i know. Its not about convincing/guiding ppl, that is not in our hands (as Muslims), but logically/intellectually countering these popular views and proving/showing why Islam is the right path. Brothers/Sister fadlan contribute intelligently wit evidence, interested in how to reach/explain to those who doubt. Main Reasons (most dont pretain to Islam, hopeing JB n Cara can add to this list and tell us at once why they being raised Muslim as they claim no longer believe in Islam, how/when/why? no mocking fadlan (JB) but a sincere understanding/discussion:) Multiple Gods and Religious Traditions: It is difficult to credit any one religion as being True or any one god as being True when there have been so many throughout human history. None appears to have any greater claim to being more credible or reliable than any other. Why Christianity and not Judaism? Why Islam and not Hinduism? Why monotheism and not polytheism? Every position has had its defenders, all as ardent as those in other traditions. They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong. Contradictory Characteristics in Gods: Theists often claim that their gods are perfect beings; they describe gods, however, in contradictory and incoherent ways. Numerous characteristics are attributed to their gods, some of which are impossible and some combinations of which are impossible. As described, it's unlikely or impossible for these gods to exist. This doesn't mean that no god could possibly exist, just that the ones theists claim to believe in don't. Religion is Self-Contradictory: No religion is perfectly consistent when it comes to doctrines, ideas, and history. Every ideology, philosophy, and cultural tradition has inconsistencies and contradictions, so this shouldn't be surprising — but other ideologies and traditions aren't alleged to be divinely created or divinely sanctioned systems for following the wishes of a god. The state of religion in the world today is more consistent with the premise that they are man-made institutions. Gods Are Too Similar to Believers: A few cultures, like ancient Greece, have postulated gods which appear to be as natural as human beings, but in general gods are supernatural. This means that they are fundamentally different from human beings or anything on earth. Despite this, however, theists consistently describe their gods in ways that make the supernatural appear almost mundane. Gods share so many characteristics with humans that it has been argued that gods were made in the image of man. Gods Just Don't Matter: Theism means believing in the existence of at least one god, not that one necessarily cares much about any gods. In practice, though, theists typically place a great deal of importance on their god and insist that it and what it wants are the most important things a person can be concerned with. Depending upon the nature of a god, however, this isn't necessarily true. It's not obvious that the existence or desires of gods should matter to us. Gods and Believers Behave Immorally: In most religions, gods are supposed to be the source of all morality. For most believers, their religion represents an institution for promoting perfect morality. In reality, though, religions are responsible for widespread immorality and gods have characteristics or histories which make them worse than the most vile human serial killer. No one would tolerate such behavior on the part of a person, but when with a god it all becomes laudable — even an example to follow Evil in the World: Closely associated with taking action that should be considered immoral is the fact that there is so much evil in the world today. If there are any gods, why don't they act to eliminate it? The absence of substantive action against evil would be consistent with the existence of evil or at least indifferent gods, which is not impossible, but few people believe in such gods. Most claim that their gods are loving and powerful; the suffering on Earth makes their existence implausible. Faith is Unreliable: A common characteristic of both theism and religion is their reliance on faith: belief in the existence of god and in the truth of religious doctrines is neither founded upon nor defended by logic, reason, evidence, or science. Instead, people are supposed to have faith — a position they wouldn’t consciously adopt with just about any other issue. Faith, though, is an unreliable guide to reality or means for acquiring knowledge Life is Material, not Supernatural: Most religions say that life is much more than the flesh and matter we see around us. In addition, there is supposed to be some sort of spiritual or supernatural realm behind it all and that our "true selves" is spiritual, not material. All evidence, though, points to life being a purely natural phenomenon. All evidence indicates that who we really are — our selves — is material and dependent upon the workings of the brain. If this is so, religious and theistic doctrines are wrong There is No Good Reason to Bother Believing: Perhaps the most basic reason for not believing in any gods is the absence of good reasons for doing so. The above are decent reasons for not believing and for questioning — and eventually leaving — whatever theistic and religious beliefs a person might have had in the past. Once a person gets beyond the bias in favor of belief, though, they may realize something critical: the burden of support lies with those claiming that belief is rational and/or necessary. Believers fail to meet this burden, though, and thus fail to provide good reasons to accept their claims. source

^^^hahahahahaha raageedi!..........ladies and gentlemen members of the jury the floor is yours to decide the outcome of this case. and this show is over, rapit up! hahahaha dis dude is cool....waraa Yoonis hats off to ya brah.

^^ha ZU....but NG droped a bombshell nooh...expect another grand essay from MKA Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^What does the Quran say? That only Muslims are clever and intelligent? Would you let me go off the hook if I say Abdul-Mudhalib was very intelligent, Abu-Lahab was shrewd, and AbuJahl was eloquent and had a managerial capacity? ^^^Depends on how one measures intelligence adeer. Wit, cleverness, articulateness number of discoveries, noble prizes, ect can be deemed intelligence, however for men of understanding, the believers men and women are equipped with another type of knowledge/intelligence: belief in One God, Fear of Allah Most High which separates them from the rest of mankind, but that’s another topic. All I was saying was how can u call someone who claims to be somali and once a “muslim” and now has rejected the deen “intelligent”, the Quran tells us they are deaf, blind, no? NG I thought u were rageedi adeer.........disappointed u back down from the challenge.....i was expecting a good reply with better creditablity/evidence then ur earlier example of your gay dog n sickos that would do poor sheep....forget MKA and I, present your case to the jury and letting them decide. U made claims and was call on it, I saw the fallacies of your claims right off da bat and called u on it before MKA, but he went furthur to refute your claims one by one. Now u wont own up to your comments or man up and say u were in simply error: I NG a Muslim believe homonimo is not inate/natural/or normal but a wicked sin no different then pedophilia and other sicknesses, and two every verse/ayat/ban/commandment in the Quran has wisdom/hikmah behind it from Allah Most High that if mankind follows he will prosper, and if they disobey they will be in disasters. what da u say adeer?

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Cara, an unusually intelligent nomad, is in league with JB so no need to reproach her stance on this particular issue! [/QB] Ahh one more thing, Cara is not intelligent nomad adeer lets stop being politically correct she wants us to believe she was once a muslim, believed in ALlah Most Great, understood the Quran and deenul islam, and then rejected it afterwards? bullocks dheh, how u call her "intelligent" marka? Quran says something else.. MKA, give NG a chance to respond inshallah. good day.

OMG ....i understand why Allau-Ubane cruses a lot now and taliban is obessed wit secularists,,,i feel ur pain brahs....ila ninku yaab buu arkey! what is the hysteria for she asks! And why is entire city holy she asks! ina adeer 1. "You are not supposed to even cut a tree in this city, so how could you blow up a mountain? The Islamic laws have been broken." what about preserving islamic sites, ahh thats not important. 2. All this "opportunities" are riba based complete violation of islam...and KSA is not following islam which would allivate poverty, if captalism could "allivate" poverty it would have done so alreadly....but the world is more poor, n few rich elites get richer... 3. But no worry believe as u wish and do as u wish...inshallah it will come. peace out

acudu billihi......dont worry KSA rulers will be destroyed soon rather then later inshallah....Allah Most Great Will preserve this Deen.

What low grade digs adeer? I agree with u its not cool to personalize subjects but I do believe that u and brother NG along with others here dismiss MKA's messages simply because u have something against the messenger from previous encounters, that’s how it comes across.(Edit: but he dont giva!...he rolls on wit it and inshallah will be back for the gallery to furthur refute the fallices, ....MKA give NG opportunity to come back horta ) But there are no low digs on my part, I know this is forum but the way I look at is adeer apart from those who clearly stated they are not Muslim, the others are my fellow ppl of faith whom i want to reason with, marka all I did was ask questions as I would do if we were face to face na mean. Lets not personalize this subject between MKA and NG, but I would like NG (a Muslim) to own up to the claims he made, or man up and say they were simply in error. Taliban: are u suggesting here me and MKA are the same person? .......dont insult the genious adeer.....MKA is cool cat big ups, mida kale why would we (considering u meant us) want two screen names and play those kind of games :confused: ......lame nooh

^^^Right on brah...but u c dat also, adeer xiin says: "liberal interpretation of NGONGE’s simple statement adeer." .....what simple statement yaa xiin NG basically said homonimo wa natural/normal, and two questioned the Hikmah of Allah Most Great by saying there are no real logical explanations....I think NG should either own up to those claims or dismiss them. simple.

Originally posted by NGONGE: What logical explanations can you, as a mere mortal, present that can’t be argued against? I know you find it hard to understand and that MK has confused you with his babble but it still remains the creator’s want! Since you profess to be a Muslim and declare your total submission to Allah, why bother second-guessing? Just submit and accept that you can’t always understand why we are commanded to do certain things. Is it really that hard to understand? Sxb NG yes it is hard to understand, because I am talking to u yaa NG a fellow Muslim, whom I suspose has understanding of Quran the way of Islam. For u to suggest certain actions (in this case homosexuality) are banned simply because its “creator’s want” and there are no real logical explanations says to me (and um sure many others), that Islam is not logical, and more questions the Hikmah of Allah Most Great. I ask u why would Allah Most Great ban certain actions such as homosexuality if there were not logical explanations? Not my mere mortal explanations, but the explanations from the Quran, which states indeed homosexuality and other sins negatively, and is harmful to society. Do u not agree with this? Or are u just pulling ppl legs as IB says? As for homosexuality being normal! Well, that was not my argument at all. I said it was natural, innate and inherent. I based my argument on the fact that sexual urges have no default positions. If I put you in a desert island with no females for company, I daresay you’ll be tempted to abuse the local sheep (no offence intended). In fact, you may enjoy abusing the sheep even if there were women there. Your sexual urge would be paramount and would dominate everything you do. Surely it makes no sense when we keep saying that Man is only better than animals by virtue of having a brain, yet argue at the same time that there is an actual default sexual position! Did I tell you about my gay dog? I had one you know. He was male and was gay. Sxb I am sure some dudes would abuse sheeps, donkeys, ect as some also abuse their own children.....but are u telling me this is part of natural sexual urges, which is aight? Or u will take the islamic perspective, that Allah Most High created every human-being with fitrah, man for woman, woman for man, and it is shaydan that beautifies these sickness such as homosexuality man for man, just as shaydan could “beautify” and give “sexual urges” to a father for his own daughter. What do u think yaa NG? ps I see silly statements, I mock. Luckily, haram or halal is not in your hands, akhi. ] No haram/halaal is not in ppls hands akhi, but what is haram and halal is outlined in the Quran and Sunnah.

Originally posted by NGONGE: For you though, I say READ and comprehend what I wrote not MKA’s interpretation of it. why mock akhi, mocking is haraam no? my brother tell me how am one is susposed to comprehend this: "Islam bans homosexuality because, simply, it’s the creator’s want. "there are no great logical explanations for such bans but we realise that it’s not our place (as Muslims) to question Allah’s commands." ^^^Again what do u mean by this? other then how we intterpreted? Two u said: ‘Sexual urges have no default positions. They fall into all sorts of styles and categories and all can be argued to be normal. The only reason that straight relationships are considered ‘natural’ is because of procreation and religious requirements.’ ^^^How can u argue homonimo is "normal"? Remember we are muslims here and we believe Allah created everyone with fitrah, are u suggesting for some at least Allaah has instilled in them the fitrah of homosexuality? Come on now NG, help me understand cause i am being sincere sxb, no pun, ulterior motives from my end.

NGONGE, thanks bro u want to make Somalis c things from the secular perspective of these societies, and it took 7 pgs of arguement, but one can not convince Somalis/muslims and even majority of westerners (at least in da states don’t know how cats do in UK) that it is appropriate to teach kids young as 5 about homosexuality. Changed put it nicely, we are part of society we dont just "move" na mean. But I am more interested in the pointsviews of muslims such as u and Canno more so then the subject here. Sxb NG few pages back you made claims, n I come back here thinking u will own up to those claims u made or dismiss them, but u since have not let me remind u and and c if u own up I highlight two main points: Heres your quotes: "Islam bans homosexuality because, simply, it’s the creator’s want." "there are no great logical explanations for such bans but we realise that it’s not our place (as Muslims) to question Allah’s commands.’ MKA replied: "So he’s saying the prohibition of Homosexuality is without Hikmah and that Allaah banned this evil practise because in his logic ‘Allaah just felt like banning it ‘without giving a great deal of logical explanation’ hence we‘re required to just follow it" Point 2: and I quote ‘Sexual urges have no default positions. They fall into all sorts of styles and categories and all can be argued to be normal. The only reason that straight relationships are considered ‘natural’ is because of procreation and religious requirements.’ MKA asked u: So what is Ngonge here saying that Allaah has instilled in us the fitrah of homosexuality?(that was good one yaa Yoonis ) For the entire post against your claims c page 7, Sxb u should own up to your comments or dismiss them at least.

^^istagfruallah....but it can be done Val some saqjaan can put on niqaab to get access to sisters ......i know dis dude that stold from a kmart with niqab on ... Originally posted by Cambarro: They do have a courage though. ^^^wa runta cambarro, respect to our sisters marka.......but its not wajiib, and i dont know how many wear it for right reasons but still respect to their choices...ie my moms wore niqaab in Dubai this summer simply cause she didnt want dudes staring at her around da suuq, man somalis stare tooo much! .....fadlan brothers, dont stare at women they dislike it very much! peace out