Dahia, walaaleey yes and thanks much, you have answered something. My believe however is walaaleey, that even though somali union is in its current state or regardless of the stage it enters in the future or whomever the leaders will be, good or bad, the flag stands in principle we should never lose that sight, the flag raised on independence day, we have one somali flag that represents our people and country in the world and the realization of 5pointed stars one day. Sometimes vision is greatest weapon one can have. Xiinow adeer mines was only simple inquiry nothing to do with questioning the legitimacy of this movement or their right to fight, that much is clear. Mida kale the term “islamists” is derogatory term coined by the Kufar, I don’t know why some muslims are keen on labels. I found the answer I was looking for on the ONLF website, which states their resistances struggle is not a struggle between two states of Somalia and Ethiopia, hence as Naryuus noted above if they succeed in this struggle they would form their own independent state. My opinion beforehand has always been, this region considered itself part of the Somali Republic a at least in principle and supported the realization of the 5points on the flag. Unfortunate however is Ethiopia not only their government but in principle their country and people as a whole also claims this land, and I find it highly unlikely how people of Somali origin in SomaliGalbeed can ever liberate this land without a united front or support from the broader community, even the active somali community in Somali galbeed some work with the Ethiopians and do their bidding.

Originally posted by Faarax-Brawn: BTW, Arent you that same kid i had an argument with awhile back who had this huge dilema about supporting ISLAM vs his Qabil? Remind me,werent you supporting the xabashi invasion of somalia and demonizing the good wadaads(while actually advocating for Sharia law)? What a little qabilist,war iga tag,i forgot it was you. Qof daacad ah baan ku moodaye ileen waa adigii lunsanaa? Carry on & please excuse me for engaging in you. Adios... What a drama queen! If it wasn’t for the Farah in your title, dhoolit baan ba kuu moodeey la ha waayo dhaqaanka raga ma ba la hid ba. Let me remind you niin wayne ba thay sxb, raagnimo ku dhaqaan, there is no need for name calling and neither is your opinion of my character important nor has any relevance to this topic. Jalle, respect the rules of the forum and respect other members. @ Islam and his Qabil. Walle qof daacad ah waan ahey no question about that my daacadnimo wa 10 fold, waayo niinkaas oo kaleey baan waax uu explainjiri, hadaba the kid grew up marka jalle xaarkada iga deew. And If your interested in trolling and have buufis to spit, visit the troll corner on the general section, I am not interested in wasting valuable time on back and forth nac nac that you are so fond of. We have alreadly settled this dispute aiit. Back to the topic: Its unfortunate my genuine and relevant inquires about the struggle in the oga,den was turned into “clan hatred” :confused: and wax meshaan aan loo joogiin just because of someone has a personal vendetta. yaab Anyway ka gudub daad buufis qaabo waaqtii uu ma hayo. Dahia that was the 70s no?, i am talking about now. Even when money is collected its done on clan basis, the media, the propganda its all clan based. Why doesnt that defeat the purpose of a somali struggle? The purpose of this thread was to ask one why is this important struggle in the ogdaden seen as a clan struggle maybe not in the 70s, and more important why does this struggle not receive much support from the greater somali community, I mean financially, media wise, ect? And two symbolism is very powerful in my opinion, even though somalia is in its current state we still have our repersentive flag the blue and white in the world. This area of dispute is between Republic of Somalia and the Republic Ethiopia. What then is the significance of the ONLF not fighting under the somali flag-blue and white? Why don’t they fight under the flag of the republic of Somalia, don’t they support and believe in somali wayne?

All I am saying is wouldnt it be more symoblic to raise the flag of the Republic of Somalia since this disputed region is between Somalia and Ethiopia?

What does the O in ONLF stand for?

Which goes back to my original inquiry is not the ******* territory in principle at least a disputed region between the Republic of Ethiopia and the Republic of Somalia? And two do they the people of the ******* not believe in greater Somalia or not? And three whats the significance of fighting under what is considered a clan flag, wouldn’t be more symbolic to raise the same flag the flag of the Republic of Somalia, the blue and white which was raised on the day of independence from colonial rule.? [ August 21, 2007, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

That somali flag, the flag which was raised on independence day 1960.

How come after all these years this struggle in the ********* is still a clan fight? This is a great shame, it seems like other somalis dont care. Mida kale do the ******* believe in somalia, if so why not fight under the somali flag? [ August 21, 2007, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

Originally posted by Socod_badne: Your open annoyance with those who vehemently call an end to the invasion and brutalization of their country is noted. Your deliberate (dishonest) attempt to twist my words and quote me out of context in order to make the bogus accusation as the above is noted. Lakiin ka gudub. For your information I have started two similar topics, one in the general section and one in the politics section. The purpose of both threads as any honest observer will note was to gather peoples ideas, concrete realistic plans, solutions, a realistic road map sort of speak on how to best solve the currents problems facing our homeland, and two how to reach agreeable conclusions between the different political opponents, how to mend divisions, and three how to change the status quo, the reality on the ground ie getting rid of Ethiopian troops and keeping the peace in Somalia. As a familiar member of this site of ours and with somali politics in general, I have yet to see any realistic political alternatives from the oppositions, critics to the TFG government. Granted it is peoples right to be dissatisfied and to dissent against the current status quo- complain or blame, or as on the other hand of the spectrum write scholarly articles about the situation in Somalia such as the likes of Pro. Samatar, but as they say Jalle talk is cheap. I am asking here show me the money. Show me the political alternative because I don’t see any and I want to see it; show me a working system that can bring peace at this moment in time, an organized Somali movement that can rule Somalia, not talk about how things should be or ought to be, but where is the action that is making positive head way opposite the TFG system in Somalia!.....ii dheh wa kaas wa kaan, wa saan waa saas. Ma garthay? Or is that too much to ask at this moment? You consider the cold-blooded massacre of hundreds of Somalis, most of them women and children, and the displacement of nearly half a million somalis, a matter of "opinions" and "dissatisfaction"? Oh, how I wish this was all idle coffee shop chatter, in that way I can assuage my guilt by pinching myself to remind that's all talk. But this is no mere "opinion"... I didn't write the Human Rights Watch report which said War Crimes are "rampant" in Somalia. People are dead, dying and suffering on an unimaginable scale. There's real, palpable tragedy unfolding right before our eyes. So, I'm sorry if these pesky little bleeding-heart peaceniks who call for end to this madness annoy you. It is very unfortunate that the lives of many innocent Somalis, in the past, present, and most likely the future are lost because of corrupt opportunists thirsty for power and domination whom are unwilling to compromise for the greater good of their people and country. But as in physics the relationship of cause and effect explains the realities of the current situation in Somalia. Cause: forceful territorial expansion to neighboring cities such as Kismaayo, the seat of the weak government in Baidio ect, parading and rallying the women and children with guns in Mogadishu’s stadium and threatening neighbors with war, loudly and proudly declaring the intention of sacking Addis Ababa. Effect: the chicken comes home to roost. What do you expect? As the saying goes don’t enter an ocean you can not swim in, and later complain on why you drowned. It’s a sad tragedy but this like the past was engineered by Somalis. Are you serious? Some peeps were nearly hospitalized for wearing off their fingertips consequence of writing so much on this subject. This site is repository for the staggering number of "solutions". I repeat it for you once again: talk is cheap and we have done enough talking and writing on this situation. What I am asking here is show me the money. Show me the political alternative because I don’t see any; show me a working system that can bring peace at this moment in time, an organized working Somali movement that can rule Somalia on the ground right now, not talk about how things should be or ought to be, but where is the action that is making positive head way opposite the TFG system in Somalia!.....ii dheh wa kaas wa kaan, wa saan waa saas. But as everyone knows Somalia's problems are not too difficult to resolve. We all know what the solution is, it is the fair distribution and sharing of land/resources coupled with eschewing leaders who are unfit to rule even worse who have the blood of innocents on their hands. As the saying goes the most serious of illnesses is the illness the patient does not consider serious! Somalia’s problems are very difficult to solve, if it was as easy as you make it seem, then we wouldn’t be in this predicament to begin and for this long would we? Mida kale what is stopping Somalis from implementing what you mentioned above: equality of distribution and accountable leadership? Or do we blame these failures on outsiders as well? In the meantime, prioritizing trumps all other considerations. The expulsion of Ethiopian forces from Somalia is the number priority since no genuine reconciliation or cessation of violence can take place. That’s all good and dandy. But I don’t know if we-you and I, are following the same news stories coming out of Somalia, but I can almost swear there seems to be no resistance to the Ethiopians in the Northern regions, Puntland, Mudug, Galgudud, Kismaayo, Lower Sheblle, Juba Hoosa, Juba Dhexey, or even parts of the capital, I don’t know the exact percentage of the populace of those regions but am pretty sure that is the vast majority of Somalia. So how and with whom will this task be achieved -expelling the Ethiopian forces and ultimately as I presume ending the TFG government? After Ethiopia leaves we can decide our fate as we see fit. We can convene grand reconciliation conference where EVERYONE can attend unlike the sham one we have now and in that reconciliation conference we can hash out an equitable plan that meets the approval of all major and minor stakeholders. We should do away with presidency position since somalis view the president's seat as means to enriching their own clan at the expense of others and are liable to get excited and do foolish things to the detriment of others, the president should be entirely ceremonial. All powers safe for monetary and perhaps national defense should be vested in local governments. National politics should be based either on land (Regions) or parties (fixed number). These and many more sensible ideas are out there and frankly speaking they're more realistic than the TFG's plan. What active steps are being taken on the ground to reach these goals or any goals, political alternatives to the TFG plan? Hint hint, the reoccurring theme of my post, and reason why I started this topic. You're egregiously dishonest for writing the above. But now that you DO have realistic/viable plans of getting us out of this lurch, what say you? See the above. Let me help you out. First, diligently follow the axiom: do no harm! Second, there's no magic pill, no panacea, no deus ex machina that'll unlock all dead ends... you simply have try and see all the while not killing people in the process. Third, the ideas penned by Pro. Samatar DO provide mechanisms for implementation. So you just gonna have to try harder in illuminating on the source of your credulity. Honestly, I'm baffled by it. I read Samatars proposals and he goes in great lengths c*****ng a way out of this imbroglio. Did you read it? See the above for more information, but in short scholarly talk in fact all talk is cheap when no group or peoples is embodying the spoken principles on the ground dont you agree? And this is the main problem when it comes to the opposition and critics of the TFG. Anyone not part of the current crop of TFG leaders, chearleaders and 'neutral' supporters... plus no one who has blood of innocents on his hands either directly or indirectly. In other words, ppl who weren't involved in Somalia's civil war and only those with unimpeachable record in their service with the previous central government (S. Barre's). Wasn’t the TFG the result of two years of peace negotiations? Does not this TFG have a mandate in two years time (2009) to have elections? Like it or not, good or bad it’s in the end a system is it not? Again what you said above is nice, but where are those people sxb you speak of and whats stopping them from taking the lead in the affairs of their country for the better? This is what I would like to get to the bottem of. No one said TFG supporters don't have a plan, it's the nature of their plan that's so objectionable. Theirs is one helluva demented plan that involves killing and butchering their way into power. Their plan resulted in M'disho of 2007, what more needs to be said? You may object and have every right to do so, but is not talk cheap?. What is needed is the political alternative and more importantly the group/people/movement that embodies the spoken principles on the ground. That is the main issue here and that my friend is the failure of the opposition to and critics against the current trans government. See the above for further clarifications.

Dhulqarnayn -alSumaale, Female President? Okey no problem there but all female Cabinet-unrealistic because you can’t completely shut out the male population reverse sexism. We have not tried it all sxb, I read the other comment on the general thread and I completely agree with you. But Somalia was by and large failed by Somalis ...and without work and people to do the work there can never be positive change right? How to achieve a positive change on a national level? How did as your example the rwandians acieve it? Educate us akhi. Originally posted by Muj: Red Sea: 1. Get rid of the Ethiopians in Somalia and their stooges (TFG). Red help me out here because I don’t really understand this. According to you and many others here the TFG are stooges, and you are very much against the Ethiopian presence in southern Somalia and rightfully so. However this is what I don’t understand, how on the one hand you and others vividly condemn the TFG stooges who according to you used xabaashi to kill other Somalis, but on the same hand support strongly an entity that does business with this same xaabshi. Does that make sense to anyone? :confused: I mean for crying out land, the xaabshi have bases in berbera and SL leaders are regularly in contact with Addis Abba right? It would be like condemning Mushaaraf as an American stooge and supporting any of the Arab leaders is it not? Bottom line the entity you support is also a xaabshi stooge. 2. Soo celiya wadadii with improved version of 2.0 of the sharica. [/QB] Sure but you think thats realistic? mida kale what- make it a 5.0 sharia? I strongly oppose religious-tribalism ect ninyahow for many reasons.

Figures no feedback. I take my smart peeps here comment back :mad: I started another similar topic on poltics section. very interested in various views on these issues. I dont agree with NGs quote for one, somalia is not for or about corrupt politicans, but indivdual private citizens. if the Somali people had to chose between two choices: 1. Unity of their people, nationhood, good governance, prosperity, nabad, ect ect or 2) The sectarian differences, and the current state of affairs for the past nearly 20 years, I can not think of any one in their right mind that would choose the latter. what somalia needs first is peace how to achieve that and where are the people to bring peace to somalia. We dont even have an umbrella organization in the states ect. public service minded people is what somalia needs. And Allah knows best. http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=012101

Be realistic man. This is serious disscussion and i am hoping for serious feedback.

Of course not man . seriously thou not my style :cool:

Anyone familiar with the politics section or the politics of somalia in general will observe the constant complains against the TFG government, constant habshi this habshi that, traitors this traitors that. While everyone is entitled to their opinions and to air their dissatisfaction, one would expect in an intelligent discourse to provide solutions to solve the problems facing somalia, an alternative to the current government, a road-map to peace and how to deal with a divided somalia. I have been asking this question for a while and have witnessed other nomads such as Thepoint, Ngonge, Baashi and others also ask the same question, but nothing provided from the anti TFG, they stay mute on this point when challenged, they offer no ideas, no plan, only complains and empty rhertic. That says a lot about the opposition in my view, headless chickens. And heres what the Pro. Samatar solutions were: His five simple points he suggested Soomaaliya should led by:  Aaminsan daryeelka ummadda Soomaaliyeed  Aaminsan in uu maalkiista/maalkeeda iyo waqtigiis/waqtigeeda u hurayo xoreynta Soomaaliya iyo ku dhaqanka mabaadii’da dimuqraadiyadda  Aaminsan qiimaha diinta Islaamka (Islamic values) iyo daryeelka qiimaha shaqsiga (respect for human dignity)  Aaminsan in howshaan uusan ku raadsaneyn (dhaqaale ama darajo)  Aaminsan ku dhaqanka caddaalada iyo ka fogaanta qabiilka And heres what I asked: Garthay, but the problem is however how to apply these ideals on the ground realistically: 5 years from now, 10 years from now, and so on. And where are the people that will apply these and common ideals/goals in somalia? As you can see no answers there neither. The point is, right or wrong the supporters of the TFG such as Duke actually have a plan, and can pin-point, highlight their plans and road-map for goverance ect, unfortunately cant say that for the anti-TFG crew no political alternatives. Heres your chance on this floor. I very much interested in this type of disscussion, but disappointment thus far in this area of political discourse.

^^^^Why is that shocking bal? :mad: chubacka u type that believe brothers dont fall in love also?.... i remember this brother seraenaded my couz with flowers ect ....she was mad gaalo iska dhiigaya kulaha, i dont like him and his flowers wareer badana dumarka. skip another thing iska iilali, some gangasta girls out there sxb ask rudy

Muj Red Sea ma ogthay part of being a good Muslim is to conceal the faults Of your Muslim brother, so that Allah Most Great will conceal your faults on day of qiyamah, whatever differences between you and mr. me is politics nothing more sxb, and here you are mocking your brother in public for his susposed shortcomings, sxb adiga is fiirii marka hooreey before you point fingers at others and say they need preaching. Mida kale if he prays or not is between him and His Lord, Allah will not ask of you about his deeds nor will u have to answer for him sxb. There are many that pray salaat and fast but harbor hate or dislike for other muslimeen or do not have the islamic adaab of common courtesy and respect. I don’t agree with brother me on everything, we had disagreements before and every man has his own faults, but I support the crucifix of his main ideals somalinimo wa walaaltnimo, and that philosophy my brother is closer to the Islamic Sunnah of the Prophet scw then kuwaa halka qabil tageersaan, and markaastey kuu heeso. salaamat.

Salaamu alaykum walaalyal. I need your bright ideas and brain cells working. We got smart peeps here aight. First we should realize and ask ourselves why are we somalis here in the West the lands of opportunities? Two do we care about our land somalia? A piece written by NG in politics section got my attention because it falls in line with my views, no hope and very pessmistic. however i think there is more to it and i ask myself without hope and sacrifice there will never be change or victory for our people. THough this deals with politics i put in general section for obvious reasons. And two gabdaha for some reason dont get involved in politics, we need the ideas of our sisters somalia has long dismissed the input of women half of our society and vital to our community. Heres the Quote by NG lets explore it inshallah: This one, truly, is a non-topic. There are only two opposing sides in Somalia today (I’m deliberately ignoring Somaliland here). It’s not hard to make a choice between the two. You either choose the Xabash-loving-civilian-killing government or the Eritrean-loving-civilian-killing Courts. We spent a whole year discussing the qualities and flaws of both. There are no great leaders hiding in the shadows that’ll come out and rescue Somalia. These two sides are all that you have. So come out and make a choice! Is it going to be the so-called terrorists or the supposed turncoat? What do you think?

Video Article

Brother don’t get me wrong, you are one of my favorite nomads here on SOL and I know I wont be the only one when I say u have hikmah intensity in your idealism which is very refreshing sxb. but your fighting a losing battle by chasing jb, north ect no offense but it sounds like a broken record. Why chase them their doing their thing do your thing, because of your talents you can sell your ideas on SOL platform, write articles yourself challenging what you believe to be fabrications, paste articles Duke style to get your message across and sell your ideas. Pen is mighter then sword they say, I believe ppl would listen to you since unlike many here you are non-partisan and as ive said u have hikmah, not a bore u know odayga shakespere iska diigaa peace

^^^This arguging is pure danbii, "me" sxb why is this important sxb let ppl support and believe what they want, your energy and talents can be used for better causes. As for the title: Mujahid is he who fights in the path of Allah Alone, and Seeks to make the religion of Allah superior, not clan fighters or political opportunitis their is a hadith that says those type of ppl who fight for triblism die the deaths of jahiliya!. Dont quote me on this, I dont want to argue just want to point that out! But everyones deeds will be with Allah, and peace and blessings to the dead.

Ahhhhhhh yo how i miss this thread? Mashallah Cambarro sharaaf may Allah accept your prayers and grant you your wishes. Amiin. There is nothing like Mecca mos def may Allah unite the Muslims. Amiin salaamun

^^^Is it necessary to inform your wife horta i dont get that pt, some imams say you don’t have too allahu aclaam....and maybe he is scared in venturing into a new marriage and too tell the first wife would could mean jeopardizing your first marriage, so its better she finds out later. ......Mida kale islam allows 4 wives doesn’t it? Why are women against something that Allah Most Great allowed if done rightly? With that said I don’t get the point of polygamy unless necessary, one woman is enough but different strokes for different folks they say namean. War Xiinow u trying to stir the emotions of the sisters here or do you really believe in that stance? Adeer, a man’s duty and obligation should be to his wife and children and not a new woman. Islam says men are protectors and maintainers of women, that would include protecting your wifes feelings and wishes in particular a woman you shared a long life with. Wa qaalee qooftaas sxb, wax luugoo ciiyarikara maahaan.

War ninyahow, war ma dr. phil baa ii moodeey? Sxbow whats right person, what u see today as the “right person” can be seen different tomorrow sometimes namean....life is simple they say sxb nothing to lose if both people are down with each other and understand each other and ready for it. Marriage is big step tho sxb u got be up for the responsbilities too... salaamun

^^^^Of course i understand afka hooyo, but they are speaking different language here i couldnt make out what their saying...maybe its the different dilect.

In this case, I would argue that Maakhir State of Somalia meets all the qualifications of “building blocs” and to form its own regional state that is independent of both Somaliland and Puntland as an alternative to the conflict between SL and PL over these hapless regions as well as the trickling effect of economic deterioration and international neglect. I don’t buy this one bit, and let me explain why that is. In this small region there are two camps, two opposing camps, with opposing ideologies. On the one hand there are those who want to break away and form an independent country in this area of interest. On the other hand there are those who are fiercely against this move. With each camp determined to meet and defend its objectives, therefore meaning a conflict of interest I don’t see how this new state can be anything close to independent from the two entities namely PL and SL. How I see it is the Maakhir State serves only symbolic meaning and nothing else. On the topic I agree with those who say what is needed is better goverance and accountablity of leaders, then further fragmentation of somalia's lands.

Cant understand one word their saying lakiin I agree tho on films dealing with these sort of topics, need better directors/producers in somali films big time.