I think this topic has already been discussed well enough. Your poll questions need a little bit more thought, like having a point would help.

Oh my, it's all just bubbling to the surface. I suppose it was going to happen sooner or later. A few months back I saw a similar article in my local newspaper about a Somali woman swindling the council for a lot of money using a false identify. Don't you think Islam teaches us not to lie and cheat... however some people would argue that religion is the last thing on these people’s minds, but isn't it Islam that keeps these families from buying homes with all this talk of mortgages being haraam and keeps these people reproducing because according to them contraception is haraam. So tell me why is lying and stealing from the government ok? Is it because they're 'gaal'? Well our community needs to realise that lying and stealing from non-Muslims is haraam all the same! Maybe easier for our people because they don't want to spend their money on contraception and buying a home when they can get in for free and can use Islam as an excuse. Isn't that the same reason why Somali men practise polygamy so widely yet a large proportion of them can not even provide for their families.

Originally posted by Abwaan: Some people keep on asking why did they have 8 kids if they cannot afford their cost. Let us not be hypocrites. Are you telling us you all from a small family? Did you ever ask the same question to your parents. Or for you is "You know my father has 3 wifes and altogether he has 15 children" ...laakiin afdheerideennu waxay noo geysey inaan dadka kale dhahno maxay dhawr ilmo ah u dhaleen...Teeda kale Irsaaqadda Ilaah baa haya...ubadkaan 8-dda ahna reerku iskama keensan ee Ilaah baa u qoray inay dhalaan. We can't do anything about the fact that we come from large families, other than learn from it. Abwaan would you then in turn go off and marry 3 women? I come from a big family of 11 (all one 'bah') and raised under the same roof and I know it was difficult yet surprisingly all my siblings work. There are obviously a couple of points here, one being the Sun's agenda which is quite clear and other being how our community has been dependent and weakened by welfare states, which is a very large and real problem. It’s just like how you seen so many pubs and betting shops in poor areas...it’s there to keep you poor and keep you occupied.

Originally posted by Juje: Looooooooooooool....! War Bashir maxaa qadey? Many, infact most, of you guys in this thread dissing the guy now for living on benefit are probably forgeting how you were all raised before you made it to top of ladder. No Somali family in Western Europe o ka dharan karta cayrta . So stop acting as if you are all from bourgeois background, and give the guy a break. Is the story going to have an impact on the community in London, yes but not to a drastic level. On daily basis stories relating to benefits cheats (not dependants) are exposed in British tabloids and Somalis dont make even 5% of the story. Am sure Bashir must have had a sustainable reason to let in Sun reporter into his living room, and certainly did not work out the way he wanted. Bottom line is he is no cheat nor thief. He is in that house because of an error by the authorities. He will be there or probably moved to another convenient house but him and his extensive family will have shelter and food , and Insha Allah his children will grow to live on their own earnings - just like most of you in here who are taking the mick. Typical Maryoley they always forget they were in same situation. Juje I think you'll find that the our stories were a little different, sure the majority of us who grew up in the UK were brought up on benefits and probably with many other siblings but there's one big point you missed out...it wasn't easy, we didn't grow up in houses like that whilst on benefits! Sure the council messed up in this case but the reality is that these people decided to have 8 children without stopping to think how they would provide for them. One thing I've learnt growing up in the UK was that I wanted a better life for me and my family so I've spent my years educating myself and working for that reason. Sure people think that if these children grow up like this they'll have better opportunities...but how could they when their parents think freeloading is easier? The children will properly grow up to live on this cycle because the freeloading life was just so easy for their parents. We all know why the Sun would print this stuff and if you bother to check out the comments on that article you'll find that it's worked...and it's a shame that this family is proving them alright. Somalis just need to realise that sure it's easier to sit on your backside and rake in the cash but your children will copy you eventually. We need to teach our children nothing is for free and that you can only get these luxuries with hard-work.

Joking aside! I feel I have a duty to all women to help even a small group of men change their views on sexism. Yeah it's easy for everyone to have a good old laugh about the 'women's place' being in the kitchen and blah blah blah but I honestly feel that the Somali people for one are conditioned to think on some subconscious level that sexism is ok. This idea that women have a role to fulfil at all because their women etc. Why do we allow our children to grow up with this idea that 'this is just the way things are'? It's not even just sexism but these outdated values or ideas that you have to be grouped by differences or similarities. Why can a person just choose to be what they want without having to conform? Why should a woman or a man have to ask what their role is...can't they just use their own sense of morals to do what is right for them and their family? based on who is available and who is logically the right person to undertake a task or who would like to do something.

I love private apartments. You shoud try www.holidaylettings,co.uk I love it. The apartments are all over the world and first class!

Agoon aabahood nool yahay

Originally posted by Nogobi: 2. Man who fish in other man's well often catch crabs. -Chinese Proverbs lol, I'm dying over here... was that really said like that or is it someone being silly.

Originally posted by Nin-Yaaban: Not saying it's right, but in some cultures 14year olds are considered responsible adults. Not excusing what this man did, but he sure can bring this up in his defense. Oh my good god, are you serious Nin-Yaaban, how dare you even attempt to put that forward as an excuse. First off the child was under 14 years old, which doesn't matter it's a child nonetheless and even if she was older...rape is rape! Men used to marry young girls in out culture not that long ago and it's outrageous to me then and it's outrageous now, just because it happened doesn't make it OK. Besides a 14 year old now is hardly capable of being in an 'adult' relationship, because this society doesn't expose children in that manner or make it ok. It sickens me to think that Nin-yaaban that you would for one minute try and make any excuse for that horrific crime...which is a crime in our religion too. A father raping his daughter, because that's what it is! And what's this about paying blood money, we Muslims are advised to live by the law of the country reside as long as it does not conflict with Islam. The justice system is there to protect those that need protecting, and that mother (Allahu naxaristo) should have protected her children and done the right thing. Instead of buying into this cultural crap about saving face! Use cultural difference as an excuse? HA! what rubbish.

Khayr what happened to you? You're like a different person. Lilly is right if she's unavailable she's either made up a fictional boyfriend for a reason or she's genuinely seeing someone else, either way she's not interested! Why do men find that so hard to accept?

lol, Traditional roles have all but disappeared and sure it's great to hearing all these replies about "what ever you want" etc but the reality is it's just evolved. Sure it our parents or grandparents time it was easy to classify the gender roles as women are the homemakers and men are the bread winners but it all changed with migration. Somalis in welfare states like the UK has practically made the bread winner role obsolete for Somali father travelling to the UK. Sure it was completely out of choice and laziness in my eyes but it was much too easy for them to rely solely on the state. Whilst the Mother continued parenting and being the homemaker in a more difficult climate (language barriers, cultural differences etc). Well the products of environment like that have proven to be varied for a number of reasons/ factors. I find the vast majority of people are motivated by money so unemployment isn't as cushy looking to young men as it was to those before them (I hope) and western ideals have changed their view of what a father is coupled with their own resentment to their father figures maybe? All in all sexism is still rife wherever you go, with women getting paid less than men and male to female ratios in certain industries...you can't really say there aren't any barriers. Even Islam although one of the first if not the first to introduce women’s right still clearly outlines the role of the woman and the man in a household, which are more inline with traditional roles...is that sexist? Personally I think we should take a step back and look at it all objectively to your specific situation. As a woman you might want to start a family and that may mean you decide to take time off work so that you can nurture your child, during this time you might find yourself completely dependent on your husband or you might decide to get back to work as soon as possible and your husband becomes a stay at home dad for a while because you’re the higher earner. Whatever the reasoning there are options and the most important thing is for you and your partner to be on the same wavelength and support each other through joint decisions. I say down with the traditional roles, and people don't delude yourself... If you think it's more normal for your daugter to learn to cook than your son or you only ever ask your daugther to fetch things for you, I think there's where it starts and snowballs out of control. Even 'harmless' comments to young boys like 'be a man' is setting foundations as to what it is to be a man or woman for your child.

Some of us might have 'looser curls' than some but we fall under the same category. And we all want that commercial look, or frizz and kink free hair. Even when we manage to straighten our hair out without chemicals it's so annoyingly difficult to keep in that 'good hair' state. I really emphasis with so many of those women on Tyra's show because I know we put off the gym sometimes because I don't want to ruin our hair or worry about getting it wet. I've started to see good hair as natural hair, growing out the dye and drip drying my hair... although my mum would think it looked a mess, lol.

I personally think the site sounds racist. All the countries mention are predominately white populated countries, what with that?

Ngonge, I thought that was old news. But thank you anyways!

lol, I've already got the orders streaming in...but I won't forget you GG. Well it's another ipod cover, which I bragged I could do on one train journey. Maybe I shouldn't have been too quick to brag, the pressure is on!

Blessed but what is there in dustville? In terms of work.

What a strange thread. Holding hands is very useful on the morning commute, saves me getting lost in the crowd lol....it serves a purpose to me. Maybe I should make myself one of these...

The adulteress and the adulterer then flog each of them with hundred stripes, and you should not be compassionate for them in the religion of Allah if you believe in Allah and the Last day. And let a party of the Muslims be present at the time of their punishment. Surah Al Nuur, versus 2 Considering Adultery is unlawful sex between married individual and someone who is not is lawful partner, I think all this 'it's Sharia law' is bull! And that's not even looking at the conditions surrounding determining if someone committed adultery. Sharia law sets out that four witness must see the actual act. I suppose it's a bit like "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her".

lol, this reminds me of plenty of awkward uni days...believe me you don't want to be the one that scared her away. I remember this one guy sending 'anonymous' messages whilst I was in the computer room it was so embarrassing when one day he was sitting next to me and I just had to put an end to it so I turned to him and said "give it a rest, I'm trying to work!" I felt bad afterwards so I couldn't look at the guy again much less talk to him! But I did have a crush on this guy all the way through uni but I didn't bother (not that I would) because it was nice to have someone you can just admire from afar. lol!

You post to fast, the first comment was to North. I don't know what CL is laughing about just trying to increase the posts maybe lol.

And they say unemployment is the problem like there's a lack of jobs, the reality is there are too many people who'd rather lie in bed!

^^^lol, Similar to Homer Simpson in more ways tha one huh?

LOL, You just reminded me of Homer Simpson's song... Max Power, that's the man who's name you'd love to touch, but you musn't touch! That name sounds good in your ear, but when you say it, you musn't fear. 'Cause that name could be said by anyone! loooool, Ive digged up the

Nabeela: I was so bored last Christmas so I taught myself how to knit and crochet, however I did have some feedback from a couple of experienced knitters. I used video tutorial and knitting sites to learn the basics...it's tough but you'll get it in the end and you'll be that much prouder because you did on your own! lol, Hodman the story with the hat is...SLOW! I have it sitting on my coffee table at home and pick it up occasionally when the football is on or I'm not reading the Twilight Series which I'm totally obsessed with I'm sure as soon as I finish the last book 'Breaking dawn' I'll be back on to my project. So far I have done about 10-15 rounds so that's like a good few inches and it just looks like a tube I keep meaning to post a picture of it on my circular knitting needles that I feel like I'm mastered. I suppose if I can make a tube, socks or leg warmers wouldn't nearly as hard so maybe that will encourage me to finish this sooner.

Great mellow tunes, have you heard... The pictures take you away. Maxwell - Woman's Work I just love the video for this! ALthough the originals are just as good! Christopher kind of reminds me of Sting. Kate Bush - Woman's Work Kate Bush's voice is just so alien! Kate Bush is just amazingly strange a bit like Lauper... Kate Bush - Wuthering Height