ceelaayo i m with u 100% LF hadaad dhahdo ma aqaan oo jawaad maka bixin karo ceeb maaha ee ogow waxaa ka ceeb badan inaad dadka qalad u sheegto hada ka horna waan aqriyay adoo wax qalad ah sheegaya please..... stop giving wrong information

starlight, walaahi that was a nice poem. keep it up. u got a talent.peace.

Originally posted by kashulty: Waa salaamantihiin~ First of all, i want to say although i seen this debate get a lil heated from time to time, It is truly one of the good ones i seen on somali websites, so who eva started and participated in it so far, much probs to ya'all. Second i be honest wit ya'all, I havent read all tha replies ( lazy of me ) and i dont want to jump in out of nowhere, but i beleive i have sum idea of what you guys are debating about, and i would like to share what my view is on the subject ..that is if you dont. I will keep it as short as possible.... What i Know...Basics. (plez correct me if i am wrong on this" --Mr jibril an who eva on his side, are saying that Somali girls need to change the "Kibir" and nonsense that is not needed and learn how to interact with guys on at least "human level". --Some of the Ladies or maybe all are saying, We are somali, this is our culture, if you dont want us go find sum other girls, and besides you are saying this because you got dumped by a somali girl...an so on. this is at least the two i can clearly point out. Okey..what i am see'ing here guys is first of all...sum of you getting the topic of the debate wrong ....point is..the debate isnt on "wether somali girls are bad or not, clearly i see everybody saying Somali girls are Queens, however, the debate is on "HOw our queens Act, if they can ease up or not...u see" i hope that is st8 cuz many are just mixing the two. Moving on, Although this topic is being debated, i dont think (opinion) it is being debated throughly, meaning there isnt anyone addressin the pros',cons and why's properly. Example. If the girls actin this way...at least talk about why they do that...why it is good or bad, what are sum alternative or possible solutions. coming back. J's Opinion- Somali girls dont know how to act, if you approach them or get involved wit them they act too arrogant and sassy. They need to change behaving that way in order to better interact with their somali brothas. Or else the conclusion will be somali guys ending up with a nonsomali, who will better communicate wit them. simple* (jay u can correct me on this). -- My Opinion-Yes U are right, Our sistaz do act that way, and is mostly how we are raised. " Hadaadan wax isku falin, yaa wax kugu falaaya". kind of like meaning if u dont make urself expensive " or qaali" no one will value you. (sorry about the somali interpretation, i know it is kind of weak). Furthermore, Even sum of the guys are wit it, They like girls who have the "kibir" no doubt, it is Weird and it is our CULTURE>. But, The problem is, Mark my words, HOW YOU MAKE YOURSELF EXPENSIVE ladies!!!!! at least my opinion. TRUE- our sistaz should carry themselves (queen-like) and pick themselves from the ground and show us that there is NO other women like them in the whole wide world. WRONG- They shouldnt neglect and step on their brothaz on the way, while not giving them at least the chance to communicate wit them or address a friendly fashion or Treat them how they suppose to be treated. Example, if a brotha give yu compliment, or smile and approaches you, Watch your action!, and treat him as if he was your brotha, same goes fo tha guys, as ur sista. ( i know many of ya'all prolly would aggree but wont really do it, it is ok) ok, now u know where i stand, let me suggest a possible solution to this. SOLUTION- Girls, we are your brothas, your fathers, maybe in the future your sons. You have to try understanding us, because if you dont , we will be your other half that you will always be missing. I know sum brothas might be This and That, but it is you that can make us strong, So dont let us down and at least show us You there. Meaning, it doesnt hurt if u are nice to a brotha, I promise you he will respect you to the fullest, even if things dont work out or click baliiv me . it is all personality we talking here, nobody sayin sleep around and hug up on any brotha u see. So, if u aint that type of sista that is constanly trippin, disregard this, and if you are memba we luv ya, that's why we askin ya to chill.. Okey if i write more i think, I can turn this in as of my Essay papers..lol, so ama just Leave ya'all wit Peace, Love and Happiness. Soomali hanoolato! one Kashulty, Did i said how impressed im am by your understanding of this matter? or How correct you are about the changes girls need to do? i guess not but i say Thank you now for making things clear.

LOL Baydhan. Thats exactly what i am talking about, if you feel bored or you feel the topic is not right for you to discuss or debate about then don't bother criticising it. Do you have an OPINION? Then say it and we will all listen to it. But saying the topic is BORING is non-sensical, coz no ones asks you a review of whether it is boring or not. The funny thing here is, why are you that bothered to glance at this topic if you are calling it BORING and all? If you don't like something then well and good. If you have opinions then be part of the discussion. There are procedures for everthing in this world nowadays. Please save us the unconstructive criticisms you tend to lean on.

Save us this non-sense lesson For we are the clay of this life We are black, the essence of life That bears the greens to grow Which white lilies tend to bloom? White clouds can’t rain till they black Wheels of cars rotate faster in black Red routes with cars it can’t harbour That’s what black tarmac does shoulder You see, the white only divides all As in roads and they set protocol For us to follow for them to ignore That’s why blacks become hardcore Savage and indecence they remind us They painted black the rubbish bags We are the ambassadors to nature That’s why nature in Africa is secure

Well, a motion can consist of oposers and proposers and the audiance. If you happen to wish the clossure of a debate or a discussion just becouse you have nothing to say, then, you need to either "put up or shup up" I hate to repeat myself, whether you feel bored and get yawns it is up to you. You have to understand that forum means get together to analys and discuss matters not to dismiss them all together, thats why we are different from non-humans. That be it for those of you who can't debate or discuss any matter at all. [This message has been edited by MrJibriiL (edited 05-03-2002).]

Baydan, I got some over due Thank yous to give U. Thnx a bunch babes. Mr Jibril, I have a feeling U don't like moi .. which is totaly cool... but walaalo, what is with this 'non-sense'. I mean i understand if U can't make sense out of what i say! I Understand that your clouded by hate towards somali women - esp. those who refuse to be disrespected! Calling somali women sense less cos we don't see things your way .. isn't very sensible. I can see that your dying to understand somali women, the sisters on this site i am sure are more then willing to lend a hand. However, you must get rid of these tacky insults .. walahi they will get U no where. Take a chill pill walaalo .. i will not botehr U with my senseless input again! [This message has been edited by Ameenah (edited 02-20-2002).]

Ameenah, thats non-sense and it is time you make some sense girl.

I still find this topic to be lame..! I don't understand why people insist on dragging the good name of Somaali Women on the floor everytime some little man doesn't get things his way. okay, there are some dumb somaali women .. we aint gonna deny that. There are some unfriendly sisters ... we aint gonna deny that There are some who love to play games .... that too is true. Perhabs that is somewhat of a novelty to Mr Jibril, so he feels that HE must share it with the whole world. I must state that there are some brothers who also fit into those categories .... but we (women) ain't so quick to point that out! However, Walaalo i think YOU need to be a little easy on the over generalisations ... just beacuse you had the bad experiences with 5, 10 or 60 Somaali girls .. doesnt mean to say that you have a the right to diss a whole nation of Women ... Calling us dumb, senseles etc. I also, think that you need to do a little self-reflection .... why is it that U seem to be having problems with the ladies .. could it be your attitude? the fact that your frontin money, thinking it is gonna give you respect? maybe you going after the wrong girls ..... whatever ..... U think about it! If you want the Ladies (of whatever nationality) to give you love and respect .... then U arse is gonna have to earn it .. i don't mean that you front money (cos most sisters can).... treat US like decent Somaali women .... not like some senseless lil cadaan girl! and PLEASE DO NOT GENERALISE .... cos we DON'T! [This message has been edited by Ameenah (edited 02-20-2002).]

Guys, guys, guys please stop trying to be negative about the ladies and starting looking at the positive things in life about them. Whining and complaining ain't going to do anything, its time that you guys released that "that's just the way some of them are" its your choice to accept them the way they are or not. Besides you guys ain't perfect either, you guys got the same disease too, but different version of it..... but you don't see us ladies complaining....well not on the net anyways. p.s My nomadz brotha's and sista's please accept everyone for who they are and stay postive alwayz.....remember "We are all something, but none of us are everything" Salaam [This message has been edited by Samira (edited 02-20-2002).]

s/alaikum lady fatma, walaal diinta wax ciyaar ah ma'aha, oo haka hadlin wax aadan ogayn oo ha habaabin dadka, waa runtaa oo markii hore hadii diinta laraaci lahaa suaashaas maynan imaateen, laakiin waxaa haboon inaadan oranin waxaadan cilmi ulahayn. qofka suaashaan keenayow, please dadka aqoonta yar meesha kujira hadam baajinoo ulatag arinkaaan culumada aqoonta leh. s/alaikum

well, good job sister, even though i do not know and can not imagine how you feel, cause i was born and grow up in somalia, i wish all the new generation will be like you, you know they say if you do not make mistake, it means you never tried. so it is ok if you make mistakes. try to listen BBC somali service, and read somali novels. best way to learn is to practice. good luck

Salaam Miskiin: gantaalaha???........looool.....no he didn't do that, (hayaaaay!...haddii uu alaabtaa isku doonan lahaa, wey u dhamaanlahayd, he would hav gotten a knee in the groin ....lol...no the guy just put his arm around my waist which I didn't appreciate..thats all. [This message has been edited by BARWAAQO (edited 02-19-2002).]

Commic Philosophy "The good die young - because they see it's no use living if you’ve got to be good" "The universe is not only stranger than we think, but stranger than we can imagine" "Cheer up, things can only get worse." What is Beethoven doing in his coffin right now? Decomposing. What's the difference between boogers and broccoli? Kids won't eat broccoli. Why did the chicken cross the road? To prove to the opossum it could be done. Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness. An Englishman, even if he is alone, forms an orderly queue of one. Hell is a city much like London, a populous and smokey city. Anyone who drives slower than you is an idiot; anyone who drives faster than you is a maniac. Only good girls keep diaries. Bad girls don't have the time. Life's too short for chess. The only way to amuse some people is to slip and fall on an icy pavement. [This message has been edited by JamaaL-11 (edited 02-19-2002).]

BARWAQO Thank you for you little enlightment there, so, what you are saying is the we should look at what we can do for them girls? I think we all know what guys do for girls, whether it is financially or otherwise. You all know a lady would be let to pay a dinner when there is a gentleman and that shows how generous we are lol. Although many brothers think this 50/50 relationship hurts them much and gives the girls more freedom, i have noticed it has alot of good for us too. My conclusion here is, girls please donnot treat us like you were treated by your female friends. We are guys and all we picture when we talk of a girl is "kindness" and sweetness, we dont get that these days lol.

Salaam kashualty: Thanks for 4 ur input bro....I think I now understand wat Mr J's point was (I thought he was just putting us down b4). However, now that u boys hav made ur case....isn't it time to look at the 'problem' from a girl's (MY) point of view? In THEORY we should treat ppl how we want to be treated...right?....well THAT is just in theory.....in reality u treat ppl the way U HAVE BEEN TREATED. In other words....in this little sh*tty world we live in, concern 4 each other isn't very high on the agenda. This is not a problem betw guys and gals only....its betw everyone. I would say Somali women r more horrible to each other than they r to men. My point?....if u've been mistreated, then u tend to mistreat other ppl and vice versa. The other point is 'Kibir', lack of manners and plain nastiness r not limited to girls only....guys exercise their rights in this field too.....lol. They give back as good as they get....so when some Xalimo mistreats u....kno that somewhere...some Faarax is mistreating a poor girl. Lastly but not least....u guys r putting too much on our shoulders....why should we be responsible 4 maintaining ur happiness? can't u do that urself? Why should we be the ones to make u strong? can't u do that urself? Brothers we already hav too many problems of our own and too much to do....wihout being saddled wit ur affairs....so hav pity on us..ok? give us some leniency...Don't be so harsh on us....after all we r only human. In conclusion.....this is a world of give and take....and to expect sooo much from one side only leads to heartbreak for both sides. So boys...next time rather than thinking about wat u want from her....think about wat u can do 4 her. And be nice to us......eventually we will learn to be nice to u too!....lol [This message has been edited by BARWAAQO (edited 02-19-2002).]

Ismahan: Wow, am I glad to see someone in the same situation as myself. I too was born and raised outside of the horn. Though my parents did an excellent job in raising me, I felt as thought there was this large gap in me that I just couldn't fill in. Though i lived in a predominately Somali community, I went to school in an outside area and befriended those of other races. It wasn't until my cousins from Somalia came to live with us that i learned of my true identity, i.e, my language, and culture. Don't get me wrong, most can tell that i wasn't raised in Somalia, but I am in the learning process and picking up new things everyday. My next aim is to go and visit the motherland........hopefully!

Appologies to all those who got offended by the word @dump@ i used in the first posting. I have been criticised for using that word to discribe all somali women. I think most of them are, though few of them reason well and are somhow understanding. I still have many questions to ask and criticism to bring forward lol. I am not done yet, i paused coz i could sense there was some kind of tension between 2 individuals.

Ismahaan, u r dding very well, your parents are niot the only parents who encouraged their kids to speak foreign language (AF QALAAD) unfortunately, there are many similliar parents who thought the (af qalaad) a civilisaion, keep your efforts to learn your language,religion and culture, i don't want to say to your parents what they deserve, but to be honesty they humilated you, so you may play now the parents role and tell them that they are somalis etc. to not humilate your younger bros and sisters.

LOLL@LF

Sis it's great that you are making the effort to learn your language and culture, well done keep it up. I too have never been taught how to write the Somali language, I learned it all by my self through socializing with somalian people...My parents always talk to me in Somali and my friends too. So that way we are motivating one another to not forget our language and our true identity ... It helps when you are being surround by your own people, you can really learn a lot from them. I advise you to watch the somalian riwaayadooyinka, read somalian websites and books.. and socialize with your own kind... with time inshallah you will see improvement with in your self. Salaamz

Height & smile... everything else negotiatable!! ------------------ Each one of us is a masterpiece in progress

My pet peeve is guys wit wandering hands.....girls I am sure u kno wat I am talking about!....There r some guys who think that just because u talk to them....or...just because they know u...then it must be OK to touch u! Can u imagine? I HATE THAT!

LF, It is haram to masterbate but halal to have sex with slaves and prisoners? The Ayah you gave doesnot say anything with masterbation, it talks about sex between man and woman. pls stop giving wrong answers about the reliogion!

what I have expressed here is a fantasy of mine......if u guys felt like i was preaching than that is upto u... n for ur information... all the ppl that do log in here r old enough to make up their own minds about what they think is right or wrong. So Qof aan hadeeyo meesha ma joogo.. ee keep ur thoughts to urself...It called "Freedom of expression".. incase u guys missed out on it... its my natural nlegal right...so ZIP IT!! Ayaanick.. thnx sis.. Bakar; Love is life.. n without it..there is nothing!!