North-ka, Any man who stands with A/Y and the Ethos sold out his Somalinimo together with his Islamnimo a long time ago. That should be no suprise. Mida kele, these A/Y-worshipping animals know that they can't speak like that in real life in front of other Somalis. Small matter of gettin their traitorous teeth knocked out. So they come here and vent on SOL. Waxay isku dharsadeen dhulinimo and cowardice. Victory always come after great hardship. Ilaahow Umadaada oo gar-gaar. Ilaahow nimanka awood gaalo ku faanaayo oo adoomahaaga ku laynaayo, tosi gudradaatha iyo jabarootkaatha. Ilaahow Nasrigaatha aa balanqaaday soo dadaji. Wal Caaqibatu lil Mutaqeeen.

Just like in Hargeysa, tens of thousands of civillians have to be wiped out by a sadistic gaal clan dictator, right ? Only difference is, Siad Barre wasn't a scum-of-the-earth traitor. Btw, who would you nominate to ethnically cleanse Mogadisho ? Perhaps Cousin Morgan ?

^^ Ethiopian helicopters are bombarding civillian neighborhoods and you gloat, yaa mukhanath ? You know, there's a widespread rumour that the Ethiopians sexually 'molested' Cabdullahi Amxaar, when he was their prisoner. Hence, his obedient bending over for their interests and agenda. It all makes sense now on why certain people support him.

Welcome back, Nurka I go with 2. The Swift Retreat of the Islamic Courts, Reading The Results along Historical lines. A lil bit of constructive criticism: This is the umpteennth time you roll out an impressive list of would-be topics. However, most of the time, they don't materialise. It's like they're perpetually stuck in brain-storming mode Marka, my suggestion would be to simply focus on one popular topic(looks like #2 to me) and sprinkle that E-Nuri magic dust all over it! Culamada xataa walaa waaninkaraa nooh

Inalilahi wa inaa ilayhi raajicoon. I hope Kamilat and her sisters are able to get the best reconstruction treatment money can buy. A million Jazaaks to the brother who's funding their medical treatment abroad. And a major wake-up call for everybody who takes beauty and health for granted. Look at what's NOT happening to you. Kan camal wuxuu kuu fiicanyahay, to be slowly cooked in boiling water, starting from the feet and heading up. Slowly.

Point-ka, I'm lil short on time, gotta roll out. But re-read Faarax's posts. He got what I meant by emphasisig Liam Bailey(white man) and his article. lol@overwhelming concensus. My mistake, Grammer alert ! but you know what I mean.

Point-ka, My point was intentionally simple: I was showing how that in the face of overwhelming local, national, and international(Liam is just but one, I can quote you many organisations, journalists, and analysts who are making the same exact case) consensus about the nature, agenda, and and unsurpassed achievements of the ICU, there will ALWAYS be some who driven primarily by a naked tribal agenda or in support of One Strong Man(Yey, Hiraale, Gheedi etc), will seek to a)distort, b)fabricate c)discredit and d) deny the record and historical accomplishments of the Islamic Courts. I don't mind legitimate criticism and debate, and Allah(SWT) knows there are many areas one can target, but what I've been seeing time and again since Decemeber is people throwing some pathetic "get a reaction" talking points and hope for the best from the back-up chorus line. Talk about intellectual dishonesty. Take the fool who called the ICU, "murtadiin". LOL. Hol' up, that needs another LOL. Dude prolly doesn't even know what the word means. He might've thought it was a good 'demonising' phrase. Xooooooox. "Dey is da bad guys, dey is da "murtadiin" Its istupidh ish like that turns the politics section into a cesspool(your own observation). I hope a few more posts will illustrate the madness thats been taken by some as 'normal'. Horn, Duqa, I do reason comprehensively. Just because I've been shining the spotlight on what I consider the crucial areas of the this conflict, doesn't mean I'm disregarding the utter complexity of all things Somali. You asked: Is Mogadishu resisting Ethiopia or the clan perceived to be empowered by the TFG? Perhaps Mogadishu is resiting Ethiopian, the clan perceived to be empowered, and in favor of Islam and Shareecada? Do you think is a more centralist stance? First of all, you cannot say Mogadisho and expect it to mean one entity/thing. There are two parts to Mogadisho. The clan(Beesha dagan). And the Muqaawama(Shabaab, Courts etc) Lets agree on that horta. Cool ? Cool. Before these recent clashes, MOST(key word) of the attacks against the Tikrey/TFG alliance were being carried out by the thoroughbreds of the Muqaawama represented by all Somalis. To say otherwise(Clan Courts etc) is a simple denial of reality. Not only is it a denial, but it's a insult to the men currently fighting against the Etho occupation of Somalia. It's a insult to say: No, you're not fighting for Islamic idealogy, you're fighting for Clan purposes) Let's be clear on that. Intellectual honesty demands it, if nothing else. NOW(ie, these past few days), the conflict took a turn to the tribal side. A clan leader from Mogadisho's house was raided by a Yey's militia, next thing you know, the Beesha(not the Muqaawama) named a spokesman, organised formally, and started fighting as a tribal unit against Yey and the Ethiopians. On their(Beesha Moga) side, yes this is clearly a clan conflict. They have a list of grievances trigerred by what they view as Yey's lording over them by way of Etho might Muqaawamada aa kuu soo hartay. What do you expect them to do since the clashes turned tribal ? Sit on their hands and say "Ok, we'll wait untill the dust settles and then continue our fight against the Tikrey/TFG alliance ?" Heck no. If their interests converge(kicking the Ethos out), it would be a strategical error on the Muqaawama's part to refuse to fight. However, They did fight as a distinct unit and as matter of fact, were responsible for most of the casualties that happened to the TFG/Tikreys. Isku mid ma ahan somebody fighting on principle, and somebody fighting on tribal allegiance I hope that clears up your confusion and lumping up Mogadisho as one single entity. As to why isn't the insurgents active in Kismayo, that's a moot point. The fight for Somalia's survival is now a-happening in many places but is concentrated in Moga. Trust and believe that it will reach K-town soon. Edit: Btw, to those who are tryna 'figure me out' and twist my words to fit them in a tribal slot, er ahem don't try, you'll fail. Born and bred abroad all my life, my parents hail from Jigjiga and Gedo(keep y'all bums guessing ) , as far removed from Mogadisho as possible. Unlike many here, I didn't dial 1-800-Tolka to find out my position, Unlike say, Kooshin Balaqbalaq. Principled men cleaned out the filth of Mogadisho and I promise you principled men will clean out the filth of Yey/Gheedi, Inc

Xiin, What you're saying is all good in theory. But will it fly in practical terms ? It goes without saying that we are actually conversing in English, not Somali, not Arabic. In English, the term extremist = authentic muslim, in Arabic. Example: My cousin applied for this job and the dude interviewing him asked him, conversationally: You're not one of them serious Muslims(ie, extremist) are you ? Cousin asked what he meant, Dude says: Like you don't fast or pray five times and do all that extremist stuff, Of course, Cousin goes on to give macalinka a lecture about what Islam and Muslim means. I just don't think it's pragmatic. By the way, when you use the word 'moderate', you're opening up a unneccasery door for debate: Moderate, relative to whom ??. So, I just use Muslim. Period. Or Islamist to describe my political outlook. Whussup Ngonge dawg A bit short on time here but lemme say this. If you think that your academic detachment about the crucial situation in Somalia passes for wisdom or anything else, you're mucho deluded. Stoicism, adeerow, does not equal masculinity. Nor does principled passion(your dig at me) equal hot air. Well-equipped with an foriegn passport, well-established(or so you think) in the Diaspora, anything happening back in the homeland to you is simply an academic exercise in futility. Something to entertain you while you pen one of your 'Somalis-are-so-illiogical' diatribes. See what I did up there ^^. That's called a false assumption. You could very well be engaged and helpin' out back home. Even tho I don't know you, I went ahead and labelled you. Not cool. Take your false flagrant charges against young men back and I'll retract my speculation Nice n' easy now.

Hey guys, Came across this dude, Liam Bailey, over at Hiiraan Online. You won't believe the balls on this guy. With one well-written article, he's tearing down the entire premise of our position: supporting the TFG, come hell or high water. And I don't know about you guys, but it sucks to be disillusioned :mad: Now I know why they say ignorance and hate are bliss. Dammit, it hurts. I hope you guys can help cure my momentary confusion, I missed the feeling of being part of the Tolka. Dang, Sho' loved them Starbucks meetings where we gathered around and hated on Reer Qurac. Ha Ha, twas the good times, B. Nway, here's what he said that got me trippin': The Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) did something that many before them had tried and failed. They brought peace and security from complete chaos and total violence in areas under their control in southern and central Somalia after July 2006. For the first time in fifteen years children could go to school safely and hospital's could treat the sick instead of wounded. And with no gunmen on the streets to charge truck drivers fees for safe passage food prices dropped. The Islamic Courts within the union that were predominant in their sweep to power followed Salafism, a hard-line strain of Islam widely associated with extremism and terrorism. Thus the UIC became another target under the War on Terror. But perhaps with Somalia's history of inter-clan violence an extreme faith in the country's religion is needed to supersede the tribal traditions of warlord rule. It is a farce to expect rival warlords and clansmen cobbled together in Kenya as the TFG to govern Somalia without any unification , after years of inter-clan violence. The UIC is of course made up of rival clans but they have their extremist belief in the Islamic faith in common, giving them a unity which they have proven capable of governance. At any rate Somalis have a history of anger against foreign forces on their soil , as they showed with protests at the outset of the Ethiopian invasion. Their feelings toward the foreign intervention were displayed again in Mogadishu Mar 21., as an angry mob of militiamen and civilians, including women burned the bodies of uniformed soldiers and dragged their corpses through the streets in barbaric jubilation. The UIC have proven they can stabilize and govern Somalia. The insurgency's growing popularity among Somalis proves the Somali people didn't resent the UIC's strict rule as much as they do the current government. Umm, Say somethin' guys. Why do I suddenly hear crickets chirping ? Oh wait, Oh wait, the latest reports coming in says that Liam Bailey(writer of this piece) is actually , check this out, a due-paying member of the Clan Courts. Indocade's 3rd cousin twice removed. I knew it !! Something wasn't right about this Liam guy. It's like, he's actually telling the truth , till I found out he was part of the wicked evil baddie-bad-bad Clan Courts. LOL Phew, Hamdulilah. Ileen he was just brainwashing me using his sophisticated easily verfiable fact-based article I mean, even tho he's making a lotta sense. He's somehow gotta be inherently evil right ? Thats what Adeer Jaamac told me. In his own words: Never trust Reer Qansax. Dammit, they stole 4 chickens and the last 2 remaining peices of muufo while they were marti to us us last night. Aight, y'all. Peace out, and um tell Adeer that I'm droppin out outa school to help with the cause and all, na'mean. Can he, like, hook me up with a Ambassadorship or somethin'. Yo boy, Kooshin Maxamed Balalaq I get a kick outa watching the lengths some people go to in order to twist reality(reality of Ethiopia, reality of the TFG, reality of the Islamic Courts of Somalia) and make it conform to their prejudices and perception. Heer waxay gaartay that Liam Bailey , of the Fightin' Irish, suddenly became a drug-runnin, land-lootin', wannabe-journalist who writes the truth with one hand, but ummm it doesn't count....yeah, his truth just doesn't count, aight. Let's leave it at that. Keep on smokin' that good tribal green, y'all. Proud to say that I never tried it. Virgin lungs, as they call it in the streets :cool:

Xiin, I'm with T on this one. In todays universal terminology, being 'moderate' entails everything you mentioned Khat chewing tobacco smoking wine drinking sbaaro-profeteering war-lord supporting hijab bashing and more: Traitordom and selling out are now bywords for being the consummate statesman Whereas the label extremist or Islamist signifies someone who will not compromise an inch on his faith. In todays world, men of principle = Islamists. "Extremist" has negative connotations, so I say we embrace the term, Islamist.

Yo CT, Just took a look at your website and the online menu. If the food tastes half as good as it sounds, then you got a great business oppurtunity. Also wanted to give you props on your pricing: VERY affordable. That means high school kids, college students, and other people working on a low budget can frequent there anytime they want some halaal food. Eating out is overrated anyway, the whole 'dining experience' bull is a trapping used to pick your wallet. Keep your prices low, the restraunt immacuately clean, and the service friendly, and people will come in droves inshallah. Now in return for all this expert business advice, I want in. Partnership ? Seriously tho, is it possible for you to give us any hard numbers and a brief outline on how you setup the restraunt ? It'd be great exposure for any budding nomad entrepreneurs out there. No need to give out your trade secrets, just general info on how, when, you formed the restraunts and any specific obstacles you might've faced. If you refuse, I'll pull your license. I got connections, dawg

Originally posted by Pi: Raadmiir, duqa, I've heard El-Presidente say time and time again that this goverment is Dib Uheshiisiin. That's why it never bothered to fight the ICU in the begginning. It was more than able to confront those moooryaan. To the government, human life is sacred. Compare them with those savages from the ICU turned clan who burn dead bodies. You know what's funny, they think that if you talk and civilize with them that you're weak. The only thing they understand is raw force. Once you slaughter a few hundred of them they wake up from their deep slumber. Case in point: the battles in Bay and Bakool, even though the most hardcore clannists fled and never fought. Clannists like Dahir Aweys, Indhacadde, Cayrow and their petty sub-clan militias. Oh boy. I see that we're back to boasting about other men's xaniinyos. In case you've forgotten, the entire international arena and media were characterising the TFG as weak and the Islamic Courts of Somalia as powerful. Hmmm, maybe news outlets like BBC, MSNBC, and Al-Jazeera are partially owned by Indocade ? Minor but influential stockholder maybe ? LOOL. Without the Etho-American intervention, Yey would be eating anjeero in Addis, chump. And thats a concensus opinion. Wipe that milkshake off your moustache. And stop boasting about the strength of other men, it only exposes a prime character flaw: insecurity.

I have a special gift (Al-hamdulillaah) and that is a good memory, the ability to read between the lines and remember what one side previously and then connect the dots to get a indefinite picture what people really think and avoid telling it here honestly ^ Yaa Sakhar, as soon as you come to grips with the fact that you have offically entered SOL folklore as a vainglorious cartoon, kinda like Don Quixote , you'll be OK. 50 years down the line, 3rd generation SOLers will be telling the tales of Awoowe Sakhar. Not bad at all, duqa.

Nice try, Pi. You came to Sakhars rescue, but it was too weak an effort(your answer is fulla holes) and too late. This evasive maneuvering is becoming something of a trademark amongst the TFG camp. I had to chase down Khalaf for 12 pages in the other thread and still didn't get an answer. What's the question that caused his panic attack ? Very simple: Are you happy, sad, or indifferent about the killing(not the burning) of the Ethiopian(not the TFG militia) soldiers ? The routine is now getting pathetic to a point that it’s not amusing anymore. And I, and everybody else here, can clearly see whats causing you to run around, scared $hitless, about getting pinned down: It's simply impossible to reconcile your pro-Ethiopian stance with Islam. 'Cuz if you buy whatever Cabdullahi Amxaar is selling, you also get Meles Zenawi and the Tikray boys thrown in. Talk about a Catch-22. No wonder they're sweating hard and ducking down. Here’s their formula to respond to any deserved and withering criticism A) Shout out Clan Courts/Clown Courts and hope for the best from the chorus line(All together now: CLAN COURTS, INDOCADE, CLAN COURTS INDOCADE) B) If that doesn’t work, yell:SECESSIONIST even harder. Discount any legitimate viewpoint as 'Secessionistic', ie since you're from the North, you cannot speak about Yey/Gheedi, Inc's war crimes and wholesale treachery. C) When all else fails, claim that the question is ‘loaded’ and duck under the thinly-vieiled guise of daacidnimo. What a farce. Who do they take us for ? Insult me all you want, but do not insult my intelligence with such brazen intellectual dishonesty. Xalane, You are one confused soul, my noble would-be destroyer-of-Hargeisa-and-Mogadisho-if-he-had-a chance comrade. Just for you, I'm preparing a series of posts that will shut you and your packet of lies up for good. For too long have you and your fellow hacks peddeled your ware of fabrications, distortions, and reigonal politics here on SOL, backed up by the group-thinking chorus line. No more. The jig is up. You will be held accountable to every word you say and every unspoken idea you imply.

Why are you afraid to answer Paragon's simple, direct question ? It's not like you have any credibility left that might be damaged. You have been exposed and your posts in this thread confirm that you are one of the foremost tribal’istic people on SOL (it's tough to beat you, but there are some that would give you strong competition). I couldn't care less, your kind is a dime a dozen, hanging in front of Starbucks around the world, but whats really sad and exclusive is that you choose to couch your support for Adeer Yey and Adeer Zenawi in Islamic terms, invoking Allah(SWT)'s name. I have never seen somebody attempt to pull that impossible feat off. Never. Until I saw your posts. The more you speak, the more you hang yourself with your own words. I'm not surprised at you; I'm surprised at the people who give you credibility. I guess that reflects on them as well. I would also like to remind you and reiterate that due to your unshakeable support for the Ethiopian forces, you have become a indivisible part of them. Thus, it is no hyperbole on my part when I call you and your kind names like Amxaar Orphan or Dhabo-dhilif as they are descriptions (creative but accurate nevertheless) of your reality, and not unwarranted insults. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding, or are completely ignorant, of the Islamic concept of Al-Walaa wal Baraaa. If you are able fix that defect, you will be able to see, if not understand, the depths you've lowered yourself in the name of A/Y-support. Ilaahay ha ku soo hanooniyo. Btw, do not act like you represent Puntland. Neither does Yey, Cade Muse, or any other Tikrey appeaser. The men who represent Puntland painted the grounds of Idaale and Diinsoor red with the most expensive thing they had: Their lives. You and your ilk are an abomination to them and all other Somalis. They(the thoroughbreds) will never be forgotten. Neither will the Dhabo-dhilfs.

^ You wish it was a clan-war, then you'd be right at home, my brave Amxaar Orphan, wouldn't you ? I'll have you know that there are Rijaal-ul-Islam from all over Somalia currently waging war against the Tikrey hordes and Dhabo-Dhilif, Inc. Their Clan is called: Laa ilaaha ilalaah. You are welcome to join us anytime. Our clan membership is open to all who say, believe, and apply that phrase. But you gotta be happy: the fighting in the past two days did include clannish elements from both sides. After all, what else to expect from a government blatantly built along tribal lines with the fowr-boint-fife formula. I wonder where Aideed and Qeybdiid(you know, the guys we chased outa Xamar and came running to the Amxaaro) stood on the latest clashes, with their Amxaaro Sugar Daddies, or with their clannish relatives. Interesting dillema, don't ya think ?

Soo dhawaaw, Oday Paragon. Maanta oo kale aa loo baahanyahay voices of Islamnimo and integrity. Sidaas oo kale, Taliban. Ain't much happenin in the General section. You could be of much help here.

Sakhar, Violet, Xalane, and Taako Man, For once, I'll hold back on mockery(cuz thats what you really deserve in this thread) and try to speak calmly and rationally. Nothing infuriates me like a shameless wanton display of hypocrisy and selective victimization, but I'll do my best for the record. Bismillah. 1- Let's get a few things out of the way first: You stand with the Ethiopian army, I promise you, you will fall down with it. In this conflict, there are two sides, The Tikrey/TFG alliance and Everybody Else. Those who choose to side with the Ethiopians, regardless of their purported reasons will not get preferential treatment (ie, not targeted and killed) just because they happen to be Somalis or Muslims. This is a battlefield, not a tea party. I hope you're able to understand this concept. When I look at the Etho/TFG enemy, I don't see tribes or regions. I see the military uniform their wearing, I see their purpose; I see a single unified enemy that has come to do me and my country and my faith great harm. If after all of this you still want to play the Qabil/Reigon card, be my guest. Just understand nobody on these boards is buying it and you're simply exposing yourself. 2- Another thing that’s evident on these recent threads is how desperate you are to politicize the barbarity that happened in Mogadishu. Not one single nomad condoned the burning of the bodies, so you had to fabricate and invent non-existent people who supported what happened. Some of you found in it, a ripe opportunity to revive old hatreds, to cough up all that clannist rhetoric inside. Do not think for a moment that nomads do not see through your contrived anguish and tears. Only the lowest of the low peddle so shamelessly in human tragedy like this. 3- Finally, you’re not even remotely qualified to speak about an incident like this. Why ? ‘Cuz it’s screaming selective victimization. Throughout the Ethiopian invasion and subsequent occupation, you were cheerleading for Zenawi’s war, and at best, you were silent about all the atrocities committed. Who the flying frack are you to chime up now ? Be frank with yourself and us: The only reason you’re burning up inside now is because the desecrated victims were supposedly from Puntland. What a $hitty mind-set in 2007. Where was that affected anguish when AC-130 planes were cutting up civilian bodies? Where was the chorus line when Xalane still believes that leveling Hargeisa to the ground was the right thing to do and others are advocating nuking Xamar ? I can condemn this incident, I have my track record. Xiin can condemn this incident, he has his track record. Ditto North. Ditto MMA. And many others. But those who are silent, and worse, are cheerleading when Somalia is invaded and occupied for the first time since the colonial days, have no right to speak up. The charge against you is a heavy and unrelenting one: Selective victimization by way of prejudice and regional pride. Your crime is compounded by trying to politicize(more like tribal-ise) this human tragedy. Yet you still manage to keep a straight face amidst your suffocating stench of hypocrisy. Incredible. Simply incredible. Professionals, dheh. And I thought General Duke or Oodweyne were something. Watch them come back with a pathetic line like "Oh, you hate Puntland". Howsabout if I tell you that if all goes right, I might become a xithid with Puntland I may have spoken harshly, but don't take it personally, it had to be said. The politics section is being plauged by group-think and is getting divided along reigonal lines. Stand up and be counted if you consider yourself a sincere independent-minded Somali.

Originally posted by ThePoint: quote:Originally posted by Paragon: The world's end is neigh when the inhabitants of Planet of Apes speak of preserving civilization. It is like humanized barbarity advocating for the preservation of civilization 'cos it serves them best. I don't see posts like this adding to the 'quality' of the Politics section yaa Paragon. I thought you initimated that you had thoughts you wished to share rather than this delightful paragon of debate. There's a small problem, Point. And this what I mean that people should have a clear stand or risk being lumped together with those they associate with. By you ignoring the venom drivel of Azmaya, that Xiin, Faarax, and Paragon have commented on, and choosing to question Paragon's post, you're implicitly saying you agree with her. You may not intend to, but thats how it will be read. If the integrity of the Politics section is to be maintained, nomads must take a clear stand and call out those who are prejudiced or hateful(for whatever reasons).

Point, At this point, the TFG and the Ethos are one single entity that cannot be divided. You can't differentiate between Zenaawi and Yey/Gheedi, Inc. We all know that. You know that. If the Ethos left this very second, they would be leaving behind a proxy government. By virtue of this invasion, anybody that stood/stands with the Etho is an Ethiopian by association. That's the principle. Now we come to the practicality: What to do ? I will never recognise this unelected sham of a government composed of men with blood on their hands, but they're there and must be dealt with. How ? There are two options: a) force and an insurgency where the aim is to reverse the gains made by the Etho-led TFG or b) negotiations, where the Islamists are fully incorporated in a newly-convened government with Islamic Sharia being the undisputed law of the land, and all warlords being subject to it, while the Shabaab/Courts still maintain their miltary structure to keep the newly-formed government in check, so that a Siad Barre secular strongman type doesn't emerge. Kinda like the role of the military in Turkey. I am man enough to say that I don't know which path is the right one to take, since the ground conditions are so murky now, but then again, what you're asking me is an hypothetical unrealistic question. The Ethos leave = bye-bye TFG. It will self-collapse without one gunshot. As far as the process to make up a government, I envision a United Islamic Somalia, but that is a long-term process. In the meantime, hopefully all reigons of Somalia will be able to marginalise men with blood in their hands and render them ineffective like the ICU did in Moga. All it takes is for good strong men to rise up and challenge the prevalent power structure of their community, the groundwork is already there. People all across Somalia instinctively trust the 'wadaads'. Throughout the civil war and even out here in the Diaspora, they have proven time and again, that they're the only Somalis that can bridge our differences. Change is a-foot, I say. Hope that answers your Q. About the absolute'ism charge. Do you have some non-negotiable values/principles or is it all relative ? See, you're as an absolutist as I am when push comes to shove. Point proven. Baashi, You're catchin' feelings, dawg. Keep in mind that I'm critising your 'neutrality' position, and not you, your motives, or your values. I still maintain that your 'neutrality' position is built on shaky ground, assailable from many angles. I'll address that and your mismash criticism of the ICU in another thread. For the millionth time, Indhocade is not a reason to jump ship straight into the TFG's lap(I know you don't intend to support them, but thats where you land with your approach. ka gudub). The popular Indhocade Fallacy needs it own thread. Sure. I agree to your ground rules. Notice I'm conversing with you and The Point differently than I am with other nomads(who are begging to be lampooned) Respect gets respect. Let's see a plan.

TFG is one faction of this civil strife. It is more inclusive than the other. The conflict is no longer about Islam nor is it about nationalism A few months ago when the TFG and the ICU were lined up on the battlefield and the conflict was an idealogical one: Will the country be ruled with Islam or will a warlord-made goverenment be allowed to impose its will on Somalia thanks to Etho-American might, you waffled(and I'm being generous here). In essence, it looked like you were saying that you supported the ICU in principle and spirit, but practicalities forced your hand, and you couldn't commit to them all the way. Now, the conflict has taken on a clan-war flavor, again thanks to the TFG, yet you want peace to come at their terms ? There's a reason why diverse people keep on attacking your 'neutrality' position: it's bogus. There simply can be no ambivalence in a situation like this. I don't doubt that you're being sincere in your reasoning, but it's your flawed reasoning that's damning you to the TFG side and the Etho occupation, along with whatever civilian disasters that happen, like it or not. All because of your default position of not appreciating the enormity of what happened here: Invading Ethiopian troops fighting side by side by an unelected unrecognised goverment composed of warlords. That's the pink elephant in the room, as soon as we come to terms on that, everything else will(can) fall in place or be negotiated. Ka gudub. You say you want to foucs on the issues, fine. I'd like to hear your plan that will get Ethiopian troops out of Somalia in short order. That's the only way peace can even be contemplated at this point. Any Ethiopian or foreign troops staying for a protracted period of time won't be accepted by any of the parties in the now muddied water. If you're familiar with American history, I'm sure you know of the Loyalists that sided with Britain. They too had compelling arguements for peace. However, they ended up fighting side by side with the Brits against their brethern. I wait for your plan. Edit: By the way, no group in Somali history save for Axmed Guray, Sayyid-ka, and now the ICU, can claim the title Mujahid or Jihad. The USC, the SNM, SSDF, the SPM, the XYZ, the JVA were tribal in nature and predominately, if not exclusively secular. Just wanted to clear that up.

^ I meant those who are able to speak, either overseas, or on this very forum. There will soon be a day in all of Somalia when a man can freely say "Rabbi Allah, and I support his Laws(Sharia)" without fearing persecution, inshallah. It'll take time, for sure, but it's inevitable.

That's my brothaman akhi right there. Rag rag dhaafay dheh. For those of you still mired in the swamp of regional pride, let these youngster be an example of Princples-in-Action. Came from thousands of miles away to answer the call of Jihaad. Falaa naamat acyunul jubanaa Wait a sec, was he fighting on the side of the Courts or on the side of government ?

^ . Aight, I'll pay up but can you do one thing ? Ditch the Qabiil-talk and clarify where you stand. I'm running out of 72 excuses, day by day you're sounding more like Sakhar instead of a G-haadi who's clan is Islam. See camal, duqa.. :confused: new word: orahdeyda...meaning signature ?

You people talk as if the Puntland leadership has a choice in the matter. I can also tell you that not everyone from Puntland supports A/Y and his clowns Then they should stand up and be counted. I know for a fact that any ahlu-deen person in Puntland is rooting for the Courts against the Tikrey-TFG alliance. It's simple: Anybody who has a ounce of Imaan would not root for accursed Xabashi against his Muslim brethern. Not to mention that a large portion of the heroic throughbreds of Al-Shabaab were from Puntland. As it's evident on SOL, only clannists-in-denial or secular intellectuals are pro-TFG. It also worries me that when this govt falls apart, that he will return to Puntland and resume his old position. This concerns me It's up to the people to stand up against him like that brave elder who spoke out against the TFG and declared Sharia in December. Inshallah, they will be successful.