Is threesome forbidden if the man is married to BOTH women? if so why? what is the significance of sharing your husband if not with the very person whom you're supposed to share with?

38 degreez and a beach at sight , yet go hungery and dull , only Rahima can withstand the temptations of warm hot-dogs on winter nights.

Originally posted by Mutakalim: Faylasuufow, adeer, pay no attention to the orthodox dogmatist who discourages skepticsim; in the same vein, do not be beguiled by the shameless sophist who dwells in the wasteland of unmitigated skepticism . P.S. Will anyone summarise the content of the program for us? Mutakalimow Adeer, thanks for the wise-words , and was it not for your valueable words i'd not consider Bashi (my Graad) a formidable contender, not becouse he proved to be less than capable in cyber debatements but he promised to join me for a "fika" and never showed up. Fika for life Graad Bashow , Odagi mar hadad kentay meel an kaga baxsanayo uma jeedo noh. Gradow horta cilmi iyo falsafadi halkoda ha ahaden, lakin shirib ma taqaan? " Miney faturo fiq tira ninki fadhayo ma fiyow " Seriously Grad Bashow, is Somali so rich that it could cover all those ingenious, mystical and helluv(a)ous but never hellacious thoughts of yours that you'll need to paint ? mise ana i bacsane noh? I could be wrong but the general hint is "Somaligu waa yaryahay", but i'm all in for learning all you got in store for me. Wa ku kaa Graad!!

Good viking , though we've more ground to cover i respect and appreciate your cincerity in our discussion and the way you delivered so let me conclude .... I've difficulties accepting but i respect your stance that Muslims societies practiced Slavery for centuries though it was(is) "un-islamic" due to whatever reason you give. But i can neither accept nor respect that "Someone"'s patently fallacious conclusion when he says : The author quotes Muslim scholar Ibn al-Qayyim who said about the Prophet, “His purchases of slaves were more then he sold.†This is correct because he used to purchase slaves in order to free them, not to sell them. As i understand it Ibn Qayyim is clearly comparing the number of purchased slaves to the number of sold slaves by Muhammad (pbuh) when he says : “His purchases of slaves were more than he sold.â€,but our "Someone"' is denying the selling of a single Slave which basically disagrees (not agrees) with Ibn Qayyim's statement. All in all , i can assure ya that it's been instructive all the way as much as as i can asuure you that there is more to Human rights in Islam that we can cover on this thread. Once again thank you

^ If they only knew what " Caano geel" means ! Seriously, naming a human beeing is a complicated issue, a college once told me that a pastor at the parish office has to choose his name ( Fredrik) cause his parents coulden't decide weather it should be Jonas or Fredrik, an experience most mothers might acknowledge.

I think Modesty deserves more respect for daring to tackle dark issues, i just hope she skips the sputtering of some Dragons here!

Garaad, I sure can understand someone who uses "noh" in every other sentence of his Somali to an extent but i don't think i can parttake a discussion of a densy subjec in Somali lingo. JB's language arsenal looks like ,Somali through parents, Swedish through enviroment,scholing,living etc etc, English, French and Latin through Swedish through school. We can roll on Somali lingo as long as it can word our thoughts noh?

Good Viking, normally one would flag for re-iterating the same point on n on , actually some would get exhausted and flag for comprehension but i know my good Viking better so here i'm whining again. as i told you earlier the propensity to engage you in this is so irresistable, so i'd like you to deliver my good Viking, In my post i quoted the book "Zad al-Ma'ad" (Part I, p. 160), (part 1, pp. 114, 115, and 116), now , my knowledge about Islam no matter how futile,weather i own the book or which sites use that book is of little or no importance to the point of contention here, it is a sidekick if u like. And yes, there are things to deliver my good Viking, either you disagree with what i've presented and provide us with the correct, exact words of Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya in his book "Zad al-Ma'ad" preferably from the reffered pages (Part I, p. 160), (part 1, pp. 114, 115, and 116) irrespective of language or you could claim and preferably prove the non-existance of that book altogether, but that there're Christians, Orientalists and what not who are non-Moslims won't get you off the hook,we all know that the record of Christianity on this question has been hardly any better if not worse, given that you're intrested in discussing the human rights in Islam in general and the Islamic account of Slavery in particular . As you've agreed, Muslims practiced slavery both during Muhammad (pbuh )'s liftime and centuries after his death, and that is definitely why the traces of Slavery untill today lingers in the Muslim world, specefically in Arabia where it enshrined what the believers of Islam considered to be an eternal principle. Since you haven't found any name in the list of Muhammad( pbuh )'s slaves that doesen't belong there , but claimed his sole purpose of buying the slaves or accepting them as gifts was to set them free, you leave me with no choice but to accept the fact that these human beeings actually were slaves he bought or accepted them as gifts , sold or gave them away as gifts both during and after he was empowered by "the message", that per se speaks volumes of its own and would make me or any sinsible human beeing not only shed crocodile tears but cry a river. Good Viking, I find it very hard to belive that you diden't encounter in the Quran the Islamic stance of "the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female", For the humble questioning eye the mere mention of these three categories quite casually indicates that slavery was an accepted category in Islam along with the other two categories as an acceptable state for a human being and for a Muslim ( a slave one ). At issue is HUMAN RIGHTS IN ISLAM.

^ haa noh

Good viking, even i of all people can understand that a non-Moslim or an Orientalist (as you label some) with an ulterior motive might give an invalid account of Islam and slavery, Be that as it may, Naturally speaking my good Viking all you needed was to educate me ( and Salahh for that matter) and share that solid account of yours regarding Mohammed (pbuh) 's relation to slavery in general and his relation to the slaves he owned ( as you've affirmed) in particular, given that there is one and you were willing to share. It really saddens me to know that you of all Nomads think that i'm here to discredit Islam with few rubbish quotes from an Orientalists, but it is more saddening to see that you've yet to deliver to me, Salahh and the world . resorting to my intentions and depicting them as ill might help you blurr my point of contention but it never removes the question mark of why slavery mysteriously survived in Islam and why Muhammad (pbuh) owned slaves, whose names i don't have to have heard of to grant them their intrinsic human value, namely their dignity, that they were human beeings should be more than enough for any self-respecting one . For the last time good Viking , that Muhammad(pbuh) bought slaves have you agreed with me ( though you mentioned the sole purpose behind it beeing to FREE them) , but disprove to us that he sold or rented slaves and as a result forbad his wives , relatives and followers to enslave and own a human beeing . Good Viking, don't disappoint us and resort to stating the obvious, that there are people on this earth who don't beleive in Islam for different reasons is and should not be the mere reason as to why Islam is the only correct path , to be the only correct path Islam should show why and do it crystally clear. no? With that , i'm trying to say , the Issue is not about those who don't beleive in Islam , at issue is human rights in Islam , hence the Islamic account of slavery. Atheer Xiin, is there anyway better than to study the very ones who beleive in it?

Originally posted by Baashi: Waa biciid jabanoo ban yuurara! Innaba caadi ma aha abtigaa Now what does that mean my boy JB? Do u understand the gist of that phrase? Yes my Garaad, i think i do understand that gist. It is something in the direction of " there you are, helpless and weak, waiting to be defeated". He used to say that whenever he thought he was in a winner position, speciallÿ when leading with a piece or two and had some sort of advantage. If i'm off the mark , please do help.

Originally posted by Viking: I would reiterate that it is better for you to learn about Islam from direct sources instead of engaging in discussions with scant knowledge on the subject or relying on the utterances of inept non-Muslims [on Islam] like JB. Good Viking , Though you've tried hard to discredit the words of Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya you have fallen short in providing contrary words of another Islamic scholar ( direct source, as you call it ) that clarifies the Islamic stance regarding Slavery and furthermore states that Muhhamed (pbuh) never bought,sold or rented slaves , neither did you good Viking provide the TRUE words of Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya regarding his book "Zad al-Ma'ad " ( given that the book exists only in another language), specifically those refered pages be it in English or Arabic, unless you do that or prove the non-existance of a book by that name of that Author , your attempt fails regardless whose shelf the book "Zad al-Ma'ad" is laying on. Good Viking this is everything but anti-Islamic, unless you regard every point of view that disagrees with your point of view anti-Islamic, please provide us with the TRUE account of the number and names of the slaves of Muhammed (pbuh), preferably from one of your " direct sources". That something about Islam is not true becouse a Muslim scholar wrote about it, but it was brought forward by a non-Moslim is like saying the Pie tastes bad becouse i diden't make it. Good Viking , unless you provide another account of Islamic slavery that alots Muhammad(pbuh) a role that is diffrent than an Owner, Seller and Renter, i , Salahh and anybody with a little or no knowledge about the Islamic account of Slavery will be having difficulties to beleive otherwise, The propensity to engage you in this is so irresistable,so deliver my good Viking.

Thanks (Garaad)Bashi, It is true that the Theory of Everything (TOE) as we call it nails it's feet on the microscopic level just where the other two it unifies collide, there things get into the loop of vibrating strings, all the while the diffrent naming of it becouse it has it's feet on a reconciliation between the quantum and relativity theoroies. Neither geek nor Nerd , just curious, aren't all the particles in the System Xiin zero-dimensional point ? If The String Theory turns out to be wrong then my Abtio's slogan whenever he beated me in Chess " waa biciid jabano ban yurara" is substantiated.

^Nope ! I've Mom,Sis n kids comming over this year, so all am left with was , one week in Turku (Finland) last week

Bro Djib, beleiving in God might or might not be a blind act of faith in the sense of brainwashing, and you've yet to teach us what it is, As for intelligence a rationality the yardstick is everything but the ability to beleive or to doubt. If an overwhelming evidence of God's existance is to be found in the complexities of the uvinerse and the decisive factor in taking those complexities as an EDIDENCE of God's existance is their contribution to mankind needs and well-beeing ,such as the complex athmospheric composition that gives us 'rain' then the contrary would yeild the nonexistance of God or the existance of an evil God, namely all those naturally poisonous berries out there which are part of the complexities of the universe could be claimed to be contributing to everything but mankind needs. no? It seems as if you're trying to put me ( humanity ) in the center and condition the existance of a Deity by the contribution it makes to my vital needs and well-beeing and since it rains , you're telling me to thank the Lord. What i'm trying to say is those who claim the possession of knowledge regarding the existance of God opt for a knowledge that is more accurate and precise than your complex complexity evidence. they claim an absolute knowledge of a truth a reality , hence their belif. Metaphysics has as of late became the scpaegoat for everyone with an unproveable or undismisable assertion, so let's look at it without assigning an extra sense to it. Ta Meta ta Physkia in Greek means simply the books after the books on nature. Originally, this wasn’t even a subject at all — it was a collection of notes on different topics, but specifically topics removed from normal sense perception and empirical observation. From the hints i've garthered from my discussions with fellow SOLers that they seem to regard metaphysics as the study of higher reality or the study of an invisible nature that is behind everything, ofcourse that is wrong and it is everything but lucid and it assigns a specefic sense to the term . Metaphysics is the study of the fundamental nature of all reality (realities) Today, the popular sense of metaphysics is the study of any question which cannot be answered by scientific observation and experimentation, such questions are many and the question of the existance of God is one among many, namely ,What is out there?What is a reality?Does Free Will exist?Is there such a process as cause and effect?Do abstract concepts (like numbers) really exist?. Because everything in metaphysics is more controversial than other topics,for some people , metaphysics is largely pointless and will never accomplish anything natural, According to them, metaphysical statements cannot be traced either true or false and as a result, those statements don’t really carry any valueable meaning and shouldn’t be given any serious consideration. consquently ,we all have a metaphysical perspective because we all have some opinions about the nature of every reality, some of us beleive that Castro is an Angel sent to SOL by God ( that is as controversial as it gets). Aristotle ( Mr laga ficnow)’s book on metaphysics was divided into three sections: ontology, theology, and universal science. Because of this, those are the three traditional branches of metaphysical inquiry. Ontology ,deals with the study of the nature of reality: what is it, how many “realities†are there, what are its properties, etc. The word is derived from the Greek terms on, which means “reality†and logos, which means “study of.†Theology, of course, is the study of gods and deals with questions like does a god exist, what a god is, what a god wants, etc. The branch of “universal science†is a bit harder to understand, but it involves the search for “first principles†things like the origin of the universe, fundamental laws of logic and reasoning, etc. After beeing so depressed in your hedonistic bliss where in your study of Gods(theology) have you answered the theological question of "What is a God-"? and went past the stinky, dummy and irrelivant science that deals with the low senses of mankind , thus made to bedrock, or is it simply that you too killed your muslim brother but prayed "janazh prayers" on his body , thus claim the upper hand of morality?, as Salahh put it all you need is deliver bro Djib. Salahh... Since God knows everything , he already knows that we're ni99erly brothers .

Some brothers are as usual trying to make excuses for islamic slavery by pointing to the fact that Islam diden't introduce slavery or the rate with which it was abolished in Arabia , or asking cheap rhetoric questions, but In the words of Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, one of the greatest scholars and chroniclers of Islam, Slavery was practiced by Mohammed(pbuh) himself, his wives and all his family and relatives. "Zad al-Ma'ad" (Part I, p. 160), (part 1, pp. 114, 115, and 116), Here , we're not talking about the bounties(today's POWs), we're talking about trading slaves, buying and selling a human beeing. "Muhammad had many male and female slaves. He used to buy and sell them, but he purchased (more slaves) than he sold, especially after God empowered him by His message, as well as after his immigration from Mecca. He (once) sold one black slave for two. His name was Jacob al-Mudbir. His purchases of slaves were more (than he sold). He was used to renting out and hiring many slaves, but he hired more slaves than he rented out." Here are the names of Mohammed (pbum)'s slaves. Radwa,Yakan Abu Sharh, Aflah,Salma Um Rafi', 'Ubayd, Dhakwan, Tahman, Mirwan, Hunayn, Sanad, Fadala Yamamin, Anjasha al-Hadi,Rayhana, Mad'am, Karkara, Abu Rafi', Thawban, Ab Kabsha, Salih, Rabah,Khadra, Yara Nubyan, Fadila, Waqid, Mabur, Abu Waqid, Kasam, Abu 'Ayb,Maymuna daughter of Abu Asib,Razina, Abu Muwayhiba,Um Damira, Zayd Ibn Haritha,Maymuna daughter of Sa'd,Mary the Coptic, and also a black slave called Mahran, who was re-named (by Muhammad) Safina (`ship'),in addition to two other maid-slaves, one of them given to him as a present by his cousin, Zaynab, and the other one captured in a war.

Cara mia. There is only one way to find out if your beautiful hirsute palms contributes to steady grib , and as where to attach those bits to make you more aerodynamic, am gonna take to a sky diving , so grab that bag and get ready , and if worse comes to worst and our parachautes never open, Xiin's kind angels might save us. Good Xiin, becouse of 'your absence' or the absence of anybody with the claim of definite knowledge of what is beyond the grave, we don't have to necessarily opt for wild shots , all we did was ,let our brains storm , and inso doing not only did we realize the limit of our igronarce/knowledge of what is beyond the grave, we even realized that we coulden't reasonably find actual ways and means to increase the probability of your loaded assumptions compared to to what anyone of us has opted for. Good Xiin, plain speech may be your Achilles’ heel, but not substantiatng your loaded statements ,definitely is, given the permision to utter myself, that is, but then that is why i appreciate and respect your standpoints, affirmations and all that has to do with beeing so determined. A flaming Atheist as i were, neither did i turn a possibility away nor did i neglect any sphere of reality without the engulfing natural reality that dictates the contrary, while most theists hold to their guns infront of every overwhelming indication of diffrent nature , and sometimes get intellectually dishonest, needlessly to mention all the killings and distructions caused by the crusades of the diffrent good faiths. In denial is man only if and when one is confronted with a truth that correspondes to some sort of reality, but for this flaming atheist good Xiin-ow it is the other way around , i've yet to deny the existance of coherently, cogently and naturally presented diety who is naturally real , be it yours or mother Goose' , ofcourse , here i'm disregarding your dazed statement of "something whose absence you can’t prove" ploy. Placing a hope beyond the grave might be a good wishful thinking , but closing humanity in solitary prayers and dreaming of death as a door opening unto an eternal bliss condemns man in this life as a crawling worm, and it's a way too fetching that futile hope at best . *It may take me weeks to respond as my vocation starts today , but am sure the thread is crowded and loaded enough to shelter more intresting posts. * wishing you all , the best of summer !!

Atheer Xiin, so dhawow, gather more but fear no more. and as you coulden't have missed, due to the absence of someone with certain claim of having monopoly on the absolute truth beyond our Death ,we've developed our own imaginary wings. Look at Cara, isen't she wonderful in those wings ( think of one of those Philadelphia cream cheese commercials) . Look at SB in white, isen't he irresistable heartbreaker ofcourse without beard . look at the superp job Zafir does in his Bohemian garden,he is the kind of guy who cosiders one Ant's death a loss of life. look at Naden and her brilliant job on the larvae at Zafir's Garden, she knows the secrets of the caterpillars and all the colorful butterflies, isen't she too sophisticated n to die for?, dare you miss Salahh playing with the numbers as he shows that substraction is hidden under the other side of the addition coin.and vice versa. and while you're on it ,take a great look at me, Man , i look pretty . All that and still i woulden't be judgemental and class those intellectuals as faithless team. what i gather is a rather naturally well equipped exploration team, given that exploring beyond death is not considered a " no go zone " for explorers who lack or have much of a belif in certain faith. Guessing whatever comes after death and beyond is an equal oportiunity endeavour, and since we human beeings are certain and only know about this life , prefferably an extension of this life is a forte. It sure is natural for man to fear a threat,specially a threat that he knows where it is coming from, and the damage it can do to one or his beloved ones or properties, but to fear a threat that you don't know where it is comming from is special for some people , thus , a fear is everything but a faithless' vulnerable heel. It never is a bliss or favorable to see a fellow mankind in trouble, but in a natural and just world the damage of what one threatens with brings about is (should be) proportional to the sin (or wrong-doing) that ha been commited against one,needlessly to mention that wrong-doing is relative and human nature. Since Xiin found himself alive , Xiin can't and won't influence what will happen to him after his death , becouse Xiin is incapable of increasing the percentage when he is 100% dead, but while Xiin is alive , Xiin might as well enjoy life and disregard a threat that he doesen't know where it is coming from.

Originally posted by Naden: Don't you wish you could hang out with us . And if you abandon the rest of your houris (63), you will get worse treatment than the gatekeepers you're threatening my friend SB with . Besides, if you leave, we leave, goddammit . Oh Naden ,though out of good-will, you just killed me softly , eh, skip it, no one dies there on the other side. ooooooh mama, one's brain sure goes haywire trying to figure out what to do with the 63 brunette houris. Worse is ,coming to terms with 63 supressed emotions. Cara mia, i'd like to be a Cat in my next life , get spoiled and forget how to hunt mouse. My old man once told me ,Whatever is not discharged is internalized,so,instead of venting my emotions and thoughts onto those demanding houris, who're afraid of the dark, i'm sane enough to grab that hairy hand of yours and vanish in the dark.

Since Viking is originally a Swede lemme serve him some Swedish meatballs and get him onboard. you know , we Swedish are a slightly retarded ! Isaid slightly darn it. !! Viking , det SB säger och du verker har ( troligen ) missat är att , Allah som är all-vetande och skaparen av mänskligheten vet ju vad vi kommer att göra i varenda situation i vårt lilla liv, vilket innebär om Allah vet att den 10de juli 2006 Kl: 21:30 jag ska tafsa på en Amelia som är 8 år yngre än mig och får det på käften, måste(borde , sjävfallet....saknar ord) Allah genom sin kunskap av mitt agerande skapa en Amelia 8 år efter att jag föddes, bland annat ,för att Jag skall få det på käften av henne den 10de juli 2006 Kl: 21:30 , därmed blev Amelia's öde (någolunda)förbestämd. Hoppas att du ser den religösa relationen mellan Allah's vetande och Amelia's fria villjan. Here is a slight translation the nosy ones , Viking , what SB is saying that you seem to be ( probabaly ) missing is that an Allah who is omnicient and creator of mankind knows what we'll do in every given situation in our little life, that entails If Allah knows that July 10th 2006 at 21:30 , i'm gonna handle an Amelia who is younger than me 8 years clumsily and get beaten, then Allah must ( aught, should,..... i'm running out of words here ) create that Amelia 8 years after i was born becouse i among other things had to get beaten by just her,July 10th 2006 at 21:30. thus Amelia's destiny is (somehow) predestined. I hope you see the religious relationshp between an Omniscient Allah and Amelia's free-will. I happen to have other confusions , but let's deal with Warsan's first .

Xiin, Atheer, would it be fair to say ,Nothing sticks your pinata argument ? no? :cool:

^^^knowing that SB is already there and Naden is coming along , i don't know if i wanna stay. too crowded for my aloof a$$. Though it is hard to give up on the unique chance of experiencing the exclussive wrath of the almighty at first hand, i can think of becoming a meek mouse, falling for zipping from the rivers of wine, picking one of my 7 hot houris, aaaah what a frolicsome romp, it's extremely enjoyable knowing that Cara is on the other side taking notes of SB's reaction to the looks of the Dungeon gatekeeprs.

Originally posted by Viking: Pre-determination and free-will do not go together; if Allah SWT pre-determined you to be a killer (meaning He has mad you a killer and not you who made the choice) then it would be unfair for you to be punished for your actions. But Allah is Just and would not punish you for something you didn't do out of your free-will. Originally posted by Nur: ...Allah knows beforehand our choices and paths that we will take, and thus he records it in the Book of Qader, as the Book of Qadar is in a different domain of time-space than ours, ....Nur This reminds me of The Problem of Evil ! If God exists, then he is an omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect. [Edit] It sure was becouse of ' Calaf ' i wrote this post ! :rolleyes:

Warsan, you've raised a fundamentally logical question , and for that i've to blame ya . Correct me if i'm wrong but the reason why you raise the question is obviously that a conclusion you so often hear around you doesen't just add up. well, i'm not capable of viewing things from Allah's perspective as Sheikh Nur does, but what people reffer to as ' calaf ' or destiny can be simply rationally understood and naturally explained, but not always. Firstly, the concept of 'Calaf' is based on our need to know and explain things, you might have heard phrases like ' clafkeda maheyn', or that her marriage prospects were doomed etc etc. Simply what people are trying to say is " what happened happened ", meaning , what took place took place even though a diffrent outcome was more likely becouse rationally the circumstances in place should entail a diffrent outcome. Actually that is not often the case,hence the lunacy and the confusion, what happens happens becouse of different reasons, and hardly becouse of ' Calaf'. now this might sound like ' calaf majiro ' or nothing is an absolute destiny, but that is not the point, becouse if ' Calaf ' is the result of any given course then everything is ' Calaf ' , but if 'Calaf ' is only the odd result of any given course then ' calaf wa jira '. Simply put, Odd results are reffered to as ' calaf ' more often then not, and normal ( expected ) results are often reffered to as the obvious. Now having understood ' Calaf ' in that light ,we can understand the logical fallacy in the examples given by the abouve posters. As for crossing roads, it simply is impossible to be run over, given that you absolutely possitively made sure that no vehicle was moving towards you from any direction and any near distance. if you get run over then it is not ' Calaf ' or Fate / destiny, unless we somehow deny the fact that we underestimated or overlooked an approching vehicle. Actually very often people blame on 'Calaf' for their misacheivements and thus take the easy way out apeasing their ego. As for the Students , actually the professor's chances of accuracy doesn't necessarily increase or decrease for that matter , given that the circumstances around the Students including the variations in their capabilities are cosntant, what increases or decreases is relative to those other factors including the professor himself. in some contexts people reffer to 'calaf ' as luck , you sure have heard phrases likes ' Calaf uma lahayn ', again ,people are trying to rationalize an unreasonable outcome of a probably reasonable course. Most of the time luck is considered as a must have ingredience to any endeavour, and that might or might not necessarily be the case, depending often on the complexity of the task at hand. Trying to answer your main question i'd say , There're different reasons as to why people blame ' Calaf ' for choosing the wrong partner etc etc , one is human beeings are not always rational in their thinking let alone critical, more often than not we get carried away by our emotions , and inso doing we stop thinking critically and instead think wishfully, thus we distance ourselves from undisered facts and realities, hence the blame on calaf ' for our own shortcommings , which is sometimes to prefer for spycological reasons. As for the notion " I know that everything we are going to do is already written when we are in the womb" , mind sharing with us , how do you know?

Nice Article Sheikh Nur! Though the Topic somehow gives a poisoned image of what to come , as one trickles into the contents in context, one realizes that Westren Liberalism is a progressive Ideology which is mainly and deeply intertwined with individualism. Now there is a diffrence between free indivitual choice and slave choice, these women/girls trafficked throughout the West from East Europe, Asia and even Africa are lured (forced) into their situations and that makes the liberal Westren Machanism in place a teethless Tiger. Even though westren governments slightly differ in their implementation of Liberalism , no single westren country has legalized torture in general let alone a special one for Women. The Delimma for Liberalism is how to clarify the thin line between the individual choice of a woman/girl to have sex and have sex and get paid. To be frank and a culturally competent communicator, i've to share with you what recently happened in Sweden, a country where prostitution is forbidden by law. Due to the increased prostitution of Women in Germany becouse of the World cup event, The Swedish fotboll association was considering to boycott the games if the government of Germany diden't stop it while (according to a german local newswire )the organization and the players of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia( a Muslim Nation ruled by the Sharia ) were looking forward to every free second they could get to hit the street and hopefully get hooked. Westren Liberalism is far from beeing supereme, but the alternatives of Muslim men's view about Women or Far-eastren cultures are in my view WORSE.