^ Atehism 101? aight, here it is . 1: There is no God = there is no Atheist. 2: God as defined by you(theist) ,an Atheist don't won't can't (you may pick your verb) beleive you, not becouse he hates you or likes you , but becouse you and your claim get absurd. any better now?

Val , I don't wear that irresistable blond fringe anymore, Afro and 70s is in again. Had Ibtis seen the pic of me wearing those Ray-Ban and my Dad's 'Romer'(to be winded) watch had she taken me for an old man, eh today's kids!

^Yes, i do , but then as an expression, as an exclamatory phrase if you like, O tempore o mores. Just like you, except that you claim to know whom you´re addressing , i don't.

Val , Serinity J.lee ,Ibtis and many more will sure be punished for looking good on those Jeans, or was it for showing it off? or was it for loving who they are? i really don't know for what , i just want them punished. Repent to your God girls and swap those Jeans for an ugly garment. by ugly i mean , unattractive.

Originally posted by Valenteenah: ^ Yeah? Says who? Isn't ' Ridwaan' a female name? Says Ibtisam , eh , what does it take to tell if someone woke up alone this morning ?, exactly , not much, look at yourself. I can almost hear Val's tittering laugh, but Hey, Pets , specially cats are not counted . and Yes,i too thought Ridwaan sounds feminine, heck we know about those disguised 'Ukhtis' on mission.

Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: We don't have a culture,if we have one,it's evident that it's bad one.Islam should be the way we do everything in life,because it's complete system which suits well everything. Mr.Me..huh,wah? I am confused here. A person with such a mentality is not only ridiculously sanctimonious , he needs loads of reality doses, be happy that you're not related.

^ I don't think your husband is younger than hers. Who woulden't want a never aging Husband ? , having seperate beds or bedrooms is a sign for older husband.

Originally posted by Northerner: ps i once heard an athiest say "thank god i'm an athiest" what did he mean by that? I woulden't know what he meant by that , but i've a feeling that you're about to tell me.

Originally posted by Pi: The thing is how do ppl who dont believe in God rationalize their morals. For the sake of it? But why. Basically, the system of ethics of an athiest is based on emotion. That's my two cents, dude. Mr 3.14 , What you disguised as a question there is plainly flawed statement of yours, nobody does things normally for the sake of it. So, let me ask you the question you beg to answer. As a religious person ,how do you rationalize your morals? why do you act morally? becouse God says so or becouse God will punish you if you don't or reward you if you do? Are you of the idea that religious people's morality and system of ethics are based on Reason? As you can see it Mr PI, you seem to have brought the cleverness of the teenage Solipsist who thought he had stumbled on a way to refute every argument or belief against his position by adopting extreme skepticism. Khayr, no need for grandstandings Atheer, this was not , is not and won't be the last time you throw the towel in and scream " moral relativism ".

The reason i'm back on this thread is Socod_Badne's wish to see a genuine discussion of Morality , Xiin's claim of having throughly dealt with the subject had be another good reason to hang on, but my disappointment with Northren's sluggishness in terms of contributing and expostulating his stance has been a source of disapointment. I dare assert that human moral values don't need religions or Gods , a simple emperical proof for that is the millions of agnostics/atheists who live and lead a moral life every single day. A genuine moral act "always" constitutes the desire that others do well , without that an action fails to qualify beeing moral, that we eat our dinner is not particularly moral , neither is grudgingly helping NGONGE whom we otherwise wish to drop dead is a moral act, and it is absolutely not morality to help someone besouce that someone or someone else on his behalf either threatens you with punishment or promises you a reward.

Oy vey !

Originally posted by Khalaf: JB, why dont you go to a masjid and talk with an imam one on one? Why the heck would i wanna do that?

Hi m Janna, what do you mean by weakens the heart? my heart gets stronger and pumbs more blood whenever i listen to a nice piece of Music. Northener, If everything that is enjoyable is Haram, and you can't enjoy being alive, what's the point of living? The more one is able to experience pleasure the more one appreciates life, no?

I know i hold a not so common view , theologically that is,and i take and accept all sorts of punishments from Deities whose existance and messages my humble view disregards, such, can only my view entail. Therefore it follows, or so i think, that those who claim to adhere to a specefic religion yet find their Deity's wrath on me somehow not enough and feel the need to bring their own on me, are the real Agnostics/Skeptics. As a freind put it, "there's none louder, less significant or more sanctimonious than our ilk".

Sophist Atheer , what does "Murtad" mean ? and why this uncalled for hostility ? For me you're all good, and i wish you were a freind.

So he chickened out? What could have he meant that diden't hold is of no importance anymore. I'm gonna share Caano Geel's "sorry saaxiib"

Why is music haram? becouse it is enjoyable?

It is a tempting comparation , but Somalis who immagirated are not of the clibre of the lebanease.

Nice to see you back Atheer Xiin-, that i for one have missed your posts is an understatement. Atheer, That my stance always triggers some fireworks in you psyche is something i take happily credit for, though most of the time what i get in turn is just as stimulating, sometimes even more intellectually tickling, this one time, your post had the scent of a flaring Xiin, in the spirit of "évacuer ses soucis", rathen than the usually chocolate-coated nuggets of wisedoms as Castro would have put it. Atheer , horta ma nabadaa? Better Xiin-ow, 'Support your claims', have became a phrase that is worn out in my exchanges with you,so please this only one time do the substantiating and spare us a thought. a thought that'd be unbecoming of us , that is. Your post vococously paws at subjects like Homosexuality and Abortion ,subjects of different magnitude and sphere that we can in no way cover here,so let me concentrate on following points. 1: The Furqan . 2: Your claims of what Furqan is ,and does for it's adherents. 3: morality for the religious person, morality for the areligious person. Firstly, my witty remark on Sophist's introduction of the Furqan while addressing Socod_badne's question and your absolute certainity of my failure to appreciate it's contrybution are of diffrent intentions ,nevertheless, i'll go ahead and address your apologetic attitude towards Furqan and your pretentious projection of it's moral codes as Supereme. I say Furqan borrows almost all it's moral teachings from the other Abrahamic religions it is not mentionably diffrent , it actually does provide just as little, incomplete and unsofisticated moral codes for its adherents, Only in an ideal Furqanic environment can you mentally and physically abuse and beat up your life-partner (wife) legally and get applauds for it ,that is to mention few, but that is not just Furqan's fault so to speak, there are other factors. Morality has to do with our Social-beeing, every society including the Animal societies have to have a set of moral rules that safeguard the well beeing of that species as a group and individuals in that group as an individ, some sort of "rule of the game " if u like, the more a society or a group puts morally supportable and pragmatic fuctioning rules in place the more that society or group thrives. In constrast , your unsupported projection of the people of Furqan as immune to ambiguous morality, doesen't hold water against my abouve inference , and i woulden't need to mention how thriving the people of Furqan are compared to others of diffrent moral codes. As for the rigidity of a morality that gives 40 lashes to a raped girl for beeing vulnerable in the first place while giving less lashes to a pedophile is not a rigidity that i would like to judge , but i'd like you to explain for us what is an assessable purpose? Implying anything implyable is an equal opertunity Xiin-ow, and i don't doubt your intellectual capability to cut that Swath. Good Xiin, You've reiterated my to be amusement over the lot of sercularly educated that opt to choose Faith over Reason, implying that their choice per se proofs something, that it is safe to have Faith ,but we both know that it is your little strawman . Furqan morality blossomed between 7th century to the Ottoman Empire, but has been on the decline ever since, all that is left of that Dynasty is a legacy of ruins attempting to evolve and regroup to popup again. an attempt that shows beeing almost impossible. Good Xiin, that you have no clue of what a grilled hotdog tastes like is and can be a source of pride as much as it is and can be out of ignorance and self righteouness,and i don't mind having the previlege to always tell you what it's like having a ham for breakfast. Xiinow, that people of the faith have defficulties beeing moral without a guiding God is a known shortcomming,And that as a faithful person you're of the Furqan morality is normal, but that you even as a Pagan would like to act and immitate an Arab, is beyond me , burying your daughter that is. talk about beeing so indoctrinated. Atheer Xiin, You may so want to punish every girl or women who aborts , but would you like to punish a girl or women who smokes during her pregnancy to just deliver a cancer sick baby? now, go and punish women on your way to saving born or unborn kids life. Sophist , Atheer , " subaalatu dihnihii " cay maha ? if not please explain .

Zafir , don't you dare lash out , remember , if balls ever meant balls, manhood/malehood meant anything, ending up like a single-fathers is no choice, so fight the power, delicates are delicates , dry or wet.

I'd love to tell your Husband that he is one hell of a lucky bästard , yes, n i mean it. As for you, i'd ask you if you got a sister. Congrats Bishy !!

From what i gather of the definations of Jin or Jinn , they can take many diffrent forms including the form of animals and human beeings, but my question is(was) what basically are they? before they take other forms or turn into other beeings.

^ Had i my moral police dress on had i busted Sophist for his newly developed manner ,a moral shortcomming of sort, an ounce of dishonesty if u like. "Then Furqan was revealed " Even two years ago when he said "Without God morality would have no meaning", he seemd to have cincerely a good point ,but he diden't. It's an otherwise well known stance of the people of Faith,a simile of , " Taking my God away you're taking my sanity away". They'd tell you ,it is a dog eat dog world, and there woulden't be a need to be moral. Ofcourse that is not true. Our morality has to do with our Social-beeing than it has to do with a Deity whose sake we get Altruistic.

Originally posted by Cambarro: ^^ The prophet Mohamed (saw) did. The prophet Mohamed (pbah) was a special peron, Does that mean those powerful people can only be seen by prophets? Can Ordinary people like me and Nubia see them , meet them?

Sophist , how can i beleive or don't in Something i don't know what it is ? Nubia ,just like me n you? Wow, How do you know that ? ever met any? i've never met a person with such powers.