Ahhhhhhhh ,Naden, the culture club, islamically? , lovely 80s..

^Even more intresting is the way a belief is painted as something that least needs evidence. Just , claim that you do everything in a BELIEF and you're excused for beeing patently irrational. In Somaliland i believe !! How can they deny ??

Yeah, hit that button before my clan joins forces with her clan and ....... wait a minute. Xanthus, all your clan can do is force Ngonge to pay you few of his .. as a compensation for " aflgado". Now, Would you trade me for Ngonge's spitting Lamas? i've difficulties believing that.

Originally posted by Ms Dhucdhuc & Dheylo: I dont think there is a Somalilander pushing for unity..unless iney wax ku qasanyihiin. Habryar, you too need to see Xiin and urgently. ( Xiin, as of late ,runs a " how to vote against your caln intrests classes" ) Originally posted by Ms Dhucdhuc & Dheylo: Ngonge..do try again. Ganbar still by the fence. Eh.. Just say Buroa suckss and see if he stays at the fence. little you know about which flag is placed on the right side of the billow. Originally posted by Ms Dhucdhuc & Dheylo: JB..You do suprise me. eh.. enough about you , let us talk about ME. Xanthus Bless your A*ss horta, but don't get me or my 'cimamad'wrong , I cherish any development Somaliland has made , and all credit goes to the people of Somaliland,specially the people of Borama, I adore NGONGE , NORF and the likes for the Hospitals and schools they build in Buroa, and i woulden't even care to question your claim of Somaliland beeing more or slightly more developed than the rest of Somalia. I could even think of myself going the extra meter to aprove a Secession, was it in my hands,so to speak. Now ,will you help me push Ngonge over the fence? or you'll keep showing up on every 18th may festival wearing that green/red/white T-shirt? As for closing the door behind me , eh , who are we kidding , are you any better than your mom? my mom? i know you don't eat " hambo" , and i'm ready to give up my right of beeing served first.

I Just don't see the point of joining an out of control, falied state. For that , one has to NOT BE or CONSIDERED TO BE part of the failed state. In another words to JOIN or to SECEDE. For you it's the latter you're striving after, somaha?. Now, since i'm wearing Pragon's 'cimamad'today, get me some tea,will ya?.

lol @Peru !! Of all possible places Peru is where you choose, God safe Peru's fences from your butt. As a morphin injection for the fading topic,to support the Somaliland issue i'd say , Somaliland writes upon the blackboard of the Unionists a question mark, it writes that question mark for the purpose of stating that there is a question yet to be answered. and on my way to Ganglow in Borama ,I'd continue arguing, Is it not better to place a question mark upon a problem while seeking an answer than to put the label "United" there and consider the matter solved? To question the Somaliland Secession issue i'd say ,Somaliland Secessionists need to bring a better argument for their claimed disunity with Somalia, Somalia had a dictator who was extra ruthless against Hargeisa doesn't sell well,nor does the idea of beeing a old British colony justify an illigal Secession. I think both Khashafa and Me belong to the Uinionists but both for the wrong reasons, A Uinion for the sake of it is not an option , nor is a Secession for the sake of allegedly victimhood is justified. Now where we go from here to push Ngonge over the fence?

Khalf, even you need to see Xiin, and its more urgent !!

Originally posted by Xanthus: Market :rolleyes: I hate that word. Yes religion is the end of your road, but...but... Oh never mind. I give up. Pragon, Can i borrow your "cimamad" ?

Ngonge, QL is back with capital B, Neither the pages you stole from my black book nor the last pages of Sheh's red book for that matter will help you upgrade your Halima to "raliyo" v3.1 . QL seems to be presuaded that our girls are naturally rebels for the sake of it, and to be frank , judging Xanthus's 'ishing' sentiment he got a solid point. My favoritie spot is that loung-chair, and it takes more than a girl like Puuja to shake this manly man off that chair.

Originally posted by Zafir: You're the Kayzer Soze of suspects JB. ARKDASHHHH ....

Hmmmm, the usual suspects? Now i'm very concerned here,What am i suspected for? eh,skip it , don't bother, i know we pose the wrong questions.

We affirm our belief that the practice and promotion of homosexuality is forbidden according to the teachings of Islam. It is in the gray zone and there is a thin line between not promoting and discriminating, in religious terms the latter almost always equals the first. Only time will tell if we'll be successful in securing the rights of Muslim Gays,as We've yet to see a 'publicly' Gay Imam.

^^ And who is stupd enough to support a Muslim "GAY" at the presence of Norf and DD ?

Originally posted by Biixi: 10 + 10 + 10 = 30 check !! Originally posted by Biixi: After complaint 5-2 = 3 check !! Originally posted by Biixi: 3/3 = 1 Check!! Originally posted by Biixi: so 10 -1 = 9 and 9*3 = 27 check!! Originally posted by Biixi: 27 + 2 = 29 The last addition is wrong. The 2 beeing added to the 27 is wrong , the 2 is already included in the 27. what should be added to the 27 is the sum of the 1 dollar in each man's pocket, namely the 3. Who said we don't do homeworks on SOL ?

Revive !!

Originally posted by General Duke: Xiin, so you admit everyone is improvising with this "esistance"in order to address a naked ambition. So Horns group have failed in your opinion with aligning with the resistance in order to keep hold of your house. Like Ahmed Diriye has done so wonderfully to keep other peoples homes? I wonder what you get out of keeping your old foes in power. Let me guess another day to argue your case Abti, your impressive impertinence is devoid of factual drips, you have been in the buisiness of keeping/looting houses for too long , too long that you gave away the whole country to save Xiin's looted house. Abti, Do you speak Amharic?

Originally posted by Xanthus: are you forget that you are "skinny, short, retreating hair line" I hate myself for having sent that pic of mine to you.

Jac , you heard the lady , gimme a Hargeisa girl. No, no ,not that drak one,she is so dark she spits chocolate milk.

Come on Xanthus, don't use that line on me, you know how much i adore both Hargeisa and your feet. if this is so not me, its becouse you haven't seen me mad on JB, as always , maybe itchy but never sassy. wan is bedlay o ilbaxay noh !!

Hey Yo JB , don't force me to use these lethal hands of mine , oooowah , Yeaaaw, Hyyy , ho. Man, these Karete lessons paid off. Xanthus,sweet thing, miss ya too, u know even though i failed to become your #1 main squeeze,i never failed to become your Balius.

And who said Xanthus was not a typical Hargeisa girl?

Elysian Am i losing you or is your point of contention getting blured and blured?. Earlier when you said Perhaps the Omniscient, Omnipotent and morally just God had preordained this discussion of yours, and hence preordained us praying to him, and hence you JB questioning the meaning of the prayer etc. etc. And concluded, firmly stating: "If there is no higher deity, then our actions and thoughts would solely be the consequence of the chemical reactions occurring in our brain." I thought it was obvious that you had clearly taken a theological stance regarding the existence of a Deity and were inline with that Deity's predestination of future events, nevertheless, now you're intrested in free-will in a the scientific context. Since you want us to intentionally digress, hopefully for a good reason,i don't see why i should hold you back, Here we go , Determinism VS free-will in science. First of all unlike you i beleive in science defining the subject of matter is vital to any future result regarding that particular subject matter,and since you nowhere defined what you mean by free-will, let me again define what it scientifically implies, namely, the actions of the body, including the brain and the mind, are not wholly determined by physical causality,while the defination of determinism is more complex, let me define the nomological determinism which i assume is what you had in mind, it implies that all current and future events are necessitated by past events combined with the laws of nature, hence the delima. fair enough?, Go hold it right there , You further stated that "I most certainly don’t believe it, but if I would use logic thinking isn’t this the rational conclusion?" , what are we trying to acomplish here when you most certainly don't beleive in our actions beeing the mere product of chemical reactions.? Elysian, Du är kanske äldre men inte det minsta dum, Katter är så smarta at de serveras när de jamar istället för att jaga. Att prata om närliggande ämne gör ju inget,men, jag var chockad att du nästan insisterade på att byta Ämne,suck och bederövelse tänkte jag, vad sträffas jag för tro?!

Originally posted by Elysian: Well first of all I could easily explain this in terms of cause and consequence. Without going into details... the cause would be the text I read “think about JB’s hair color”– visual input, triggering a thought process which resulted in a mental picture of JB’s hair – red curls that is So my thought did not come from nowhere, your writing caused me to think about your hair... there was no free-will involved here, only physics and chemistry. Lol....there you needed to go to details, atleast for the sake of clarity and openness,to be frank you even needed to define what a free will is in your context, but now that you intentionally/unintentionally skipped, let me make take a shot. Free-will in scientific context is different from free-will in religious or theological context,in science the concept of free-will is at odds with the concept of Determinism(all current and future events are necessitated by past events combined with the laws of nature). Free-will in Religious/theological context is at odds with Predestination(The preordainment of events by a Deity(mind you,not by the natural laws) who later punishes or rewards human beeings for their actions ). The problem with your stance is, to defend your Religious stance you're taking a naturally deterministic stance, in an attempt to disarm the concept of Free-Will scientifically in order to boost or reconcile it with your otherwise irrational stance of accepting both (A) there is an omniscient,omnipotent,infalliable and morally just Deity that not only knows the future, but predestines all futures. (B)We (human beeings) have a free will of own in the strong sense, hence are accountable for our actions. You'd be contributing more if you either supported your religious stance to the best of your knowledge or your naturally deterministic stance, as one can not harmoniously reconcile them. Originally posted by Elysian: Honestly, JB I’m not trying to be sarcastic. It’s just that I use logics as a tool to understand this reality, but not for explaining existential questions (so calling me irrational is in place), while you come across to me as someone who relies entirely on logics to understand everything, and if not possible fence-sitting is a good resort. So when you say a big no to the statement that our thoughts are only the product of chemical reactions, I simply don’t see the argument for your conclusion... that our thoughts would arise from nothing, as an isolated event, that initially triggers the rest of the thought cascade. I’m wondering then where and of what the “original” thought was made, if chemistry is not involved? This reminds me of my chemistry class back in College where a freind asked the Professor if there was difference between asking a permision to process the chemical substance C9H9N and a permision to vissit the toilet?. Cause & Effect describe a relationship between chain of events,while a thought is the product of a thinking process,what causes us to THINK in the first place is totally different subject. To claim that we're conscious beeings should suffice for now. Originally posted by Elysian: quote: Originally posted by JB If you meant to say that our thoughts and actions are all derived merely from the chemical reactions in our brains, hence, they,per se lack genuine meaning , so is your thought that there is a God that answeres your prayers, or even more concretely , so is your very thought that this is the case. I most certainly don’t believe it, but if I would use logic thinking isn’t this the rational conclusion?Um...i think by answering why don't you believe it would be of great help !! Originally posted by Elysian: I must say I’m a bit shocked to hear this from you. I thought you were a true evolutionist... you know the kind that argues we originate from a cocktail of amino acids without even blinking. You’re starting to sound religious JB. You know there’s this swedish saying “när fan blir gammal blir han religiös”... are you getting old sxb The universal knowledge that human beeings don't get younger compels you to conclude so , but i've secretly removed my aging gens with age-resistant ones. En farbror ( Olle Larsson) sa en gång "Vem fan vill förbli ung och dum !?"

Thanks Puuja for the detailed explanations !! I could be wrong but it seems that you're saying everything is preordained by Alah, including both our prayes and eventual answers to them. if so, then how do you reconcile that with the notion that you in the coming seconds /hours/days/months..etc etc will answer to this post of mine of your OWN free will.? ps.. I wish you well.

Originally posted by Legend of Zu: Let me start while you cohesively trying to put some reasonable scenarios, you have made the error to mix the order of things as well as not understanding the concept of prayers in Islam (I can only speak about Islam since it is my religion and I would be lying if I try to view holistically across religions) saying that... Oh My Legend, and i'm not worth to be corrected? It'd be a great honour to get corrected by my Legend, i say. Originally posted by Legend of Zu: I will reiterate that you can not understand predestination without first admitting the relationship between time and predestination and knowledge [sorry I have to point out the obvious, something I have been avoiding in my past posts]… Here if you remove time from the equation then you would agree the whole predestinations won’t make any sense since the act of pre-destination requires to happen before an act of free will takes place i.e. it is foreordained before you commit any act, no? In this case you would understand that GOD’s (Allah’s) omnisciency precedes time itself, simply GOD knows even before it is predestined are you with me? To show it in a very simplistic way [and here I am admitting with this analogy I may agitate some folks] – at a human level, if you were to record a historical event, lets say you video taped a football match, memorised it, and later when your mates are watching you (we assume they don't kow about the game), you predict all the acts that would happen what would your mates say about it? See in my silly and simple example I am trying to demonstrate the relationship between time, predestination and knowledge! My Legend, maybe you think i'm still that sharp guy i used to be , but good times and a demanding girlfreind had taken their toll on me lately, so don't spare me an explanation no matter how obvious. Predestination in theological terms is the action of an omniscient and infalliable God in foreordaining from eternity whatever comes to pass, i'm afraid you almost lost me in your above explanations regarding the relationshp between time , predestination and God's omnisciency, maybe my Legend wants to expound more!. Originally posted by Legend of Zu: Another thing I like to point out to you is, without free will, Predestination won’t make any sense contrary to the belief “predestination and free will are at odds!!” How so, if there is no free will what is there to predestine, without free will any act can only happen one way. Does that make any sense? Um... I don't know if we're on the same page , the above compels me to doubt, perhaps we're talking on different predestinations and free wills, My Legend, The theological fatalist argument goes like this : (A) there is an omniscient,omnipotent,infalliable and morally just Deity that not only knows the future, but predestines all futures. (B)We (human beeings) have a free will of own in the strong sense, sometimes reffered to as libertarian. Now ,my argument is, to maintain both A and B we've a dilemma, to consistently accept B we'll be att odds with A. Is that reconcileable with your above stance? Originally posted by Legend of Zu: you Also have mentioned several times how GOD has to change the status quo to accept my prayers! Is that the right assumption here? As for why people have to bother to if they accept GOD’s omnisciency, well they don’t know, do they? It’s like saying, why do I need to take any action if it is predestined! Cheers My legend, in the begining of the thread i'd an Example where Alle-Ubaahne makes the simple PRAYER ,that God saves him a parking place near the Mosque, Now let us say God decides to answer Alle-Ubaahne's prayers positively,that means, God intervenes a situation that would yield everybody but Alle-Ubahne and turns it to yield Alle-Ubahne and thus answers Alle-Ubahne's prayers. What is the right assumption here? As for why people bother Pray despite knowing that God is omniscient, they don't know ? they don't know what ? Originally posted by Legend of Zu: Oh One more thing, I haven't explained some parts of the concept of prayers in Islam relating to this topic i.e. what makes a prayer answered and types of answers. to do that, why don't you think of a scenario where the status quo has to changed as a result of a prayer. Then I will lay down the rules of prayers according to Islam and then see if predestination and prayers conflict! You will be surprised how they all fit together. [smile] Cheers Um... An ideal scenario where the status quo has to be (aught be) changed as a result of a prayer would be when you announced for a baby-sitter and a disguised baby-beater turns at your door, as that would endanger your child's life, you make a genuine prayer that God help me not hire a child-beater.. Now , its your turn to surprise me .