Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: Not so fast Johnny. Your urgency to end this is understandable but its time to put Atheism and it’s fallacies under the spotlight. And This is what? the can-you-answer-my-question debate? You've been pulling my legs for too long now, parttaking in a can-you-answer-my-question debate is not that giving, woulden't you say?! Oh,please do put Atheism and it’s fallacies under the spotlight as i've been in total loss finding those fallacies whole my life ( am still trying), please don't hold back. why am i entertaining the possibility that this is another of your wanting bravados? Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: I asked the question to highlight the bankruptcy of the whole atheist argument about creation. I'd really be slow in the up-take if i thought an unknowable Deity 'created' Human-beeings as is, by blowing life into a piece of mud ( poooooooof ). Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: You believe that there is no creator with the sorry excuse of there being no evidence (or not enough evidence) but then in the same breath state that you believe in human evolution without being prepared to question it’s short-comings! I’m I missing something here? You're not only missing alot,but displaying a poverity in rational thinking. Since when asking for evidence became an excuse, a 'sorry' one at that?. Do you accept everything at face-value or you're just making an exception when it comes to all 'creators', Gods, or you just do it for this special God? As for questioning evolution, its about time i let you in on this little secret, There is no alternative to evolution as history that withstands critical examination. The idea of ( pooooof ) was too frail long before man got enlighted. Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: LoL ‘scientific’ theory, tell me what is ‘scientific’ about it JB Are you implying that evolutionary theory is not scientific? Do you 'know' what a Scientific theory is? Do you understand what 'theory' means in the world Science? To judge your question,i don't think you do. Normally, laymen think of 'theory' as an imperfect truth, in a line of thinking where 'theory' is part of a hierarchy of confidence that runs down a hill,it goes from 'fact' to 'theory' to 'hypothesis',fact beeing absolute truth,'theory' beeing half-or-less truth and hypothesis beeing least truth. The wonderful thing about Science is it's progressive,the Data in the world is our fact and the Scientific Theories are our structures of ideas that explain and interpret that fact, and most importantly 'fact' in Science means,only confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent. Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: It’s well known that there is a severe lack of evidence on human evolution and I’m yet to come across ANY 'evidence' in support of it. It’s the old trick of repeating it over and over again and having it in the school curriculum that got millions thinking along those line. I’m sure JB was ‘enlightened’ in those early days in Sweden. You may want to believe that you’re the descendent of animals if you want to though You've yet to see a convincing evolution evidence after exhausting the fossil record but convinced that the 'theory' of mud-blowing (pooooooooof) is robust?. Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: Why do you ignore the evidence AGAINST evolution JB? Be prepared for more questions You've presented one? Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: ps the 'introductory presents everything as fact and not theory. Maybe this is hwo they presented to you Now that we've covered the 'theory', 'fact' in Science, can i savely assume that you got it? Now, Again, lest you want to continue with the JB interrogation without putting more wood into the fire, can we call it a day?!

Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: Again, you have understood wrong. I’m not here to tell you who created you and how (that’s not what this thread is about). This is exactly the kind of intellectual dishonesty that disgusts one. Where is the true religious Norf with the true blue belief in the one and only TRUTH about the Universe? All of a sudden it's neither attarctive nor safe to be the knowledgeable 'Mutawa´', instead one tries hiding behind an existential question " how man originated on earth ?", a question one believes to be un-answerabele by any other way than the 'creationistic' way, as one was indoctrinated in to believe just that. Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: As I’m ‘Agnostic about Atheism’, You really got me laughing there! Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: I would like for you to expand on your following statement; quote: the only plausible answer is Human-beeings evolved to their current state of beeing from another less-fit state of beeing * what was the less fit state of being? * how did we evolve? * how long did it take? * why is this the only 'plausible' answer? (are you merely opting for this because you have no other 'agreeable' alternative?) ps I'm assuming you can 'rationally' and 'intellectually' explain away the above Don't disappoint now To judge your questions regarding human evolution , its crystal clear that you were not ( or did not allow yourself to be ) exposed to the Scientific theory of evolution in its Entirety, maybe the disinformation those who did not like it spread( Darwin says man descends from Apes ) was enough to scare one. Nevertheless, you're in for a crush-course regarding human knowledge about Human origins scientifically, no superstition, mind you. Since i can't turn this thread into Q&A thread,i let you read about the answers to those questions you listed and many more, right there as an introduction ,and get myself ready for more difficult questions after you've acquainted yourself with the alternative answer to your old question, namely, the origins of humanity. I'm tempted to suggest reading few books that i've in mind , but i guess i wait with that for now. Well, i think lest we find more fuel for this thread we've covered your Article and it's 'nettled' theists at the churchs of Atheism. And you're off the hook.

^Of Course the answer, the only plausible answer is Human-beeings evolved to their current state of beeing from another less-fit state of beeing, but then that is not something you're ready to rationally counter or intellectually consider, becouse it's not what you were indoctrinated in. so let us for arguendo say, you're right and we don't know the answer. Now,I assume your answer to the question is 'Allah' created human-beeing,as is, from a mud that he blowed 'life' into,'poooooof' right? you may correct me if i'm wrong here. Now, please,help us Atheists/Agnostics get enlighted. A: Help us define 'Allah',help us answer the question 'what is an Allah?', since you claim to know that its HIM that is behind our 'creation', don't you dare back off now, go the straight line with us, don't you dare tell us that you don't or can't know him/her, remember the agnostic stance of " we can't know about God " is not your stance. By answering this you'll probably once and for all understand why its the religious that developped facial hair and willingness to easily get 'nettled' than its out of discomfort among the Agnostics/atheists. the floor is all yours.

^You merciless Critic of Somaliland , get away. Achievement 1: a very deep well in Borama. Achievement 2: an even deeper well in Borama. Achievement 3: a deeply deep well in Borama.

^Much do i feel to spell out on you but then how do i avoid that trap of 'nettling' you? You post an Article, you even 'highlight' what you find outstanding in the Article, called it " a good read" but end up with having a question. How so? Of course i knew you were pulling my legs,with the puff of Smoke,that was so obvious one'd be extremely retarded to miss that, but what i diden't know was that you're stuck there, pulling my legs , that is, by shifting your question to how we were 'created'

^Have you by any chance got a demanding 'menyaro'? Where is Sheikh Xiin when you need him. waar kalay ha sheikh sharif leyne , ka yar caawi.

Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: JB, A little slow on the up-take I see. It’s always a sight to see someone blow their own trumpet long before a debate has started let alone ended (reminds me of my teens). I’m not interested in quoting you one line at a time ya JB as it can get very tedious and tends to divert the topic. Your ever predictable comments about religion/belief have been noted along with your urgency to try and divert it towards such a debate. But, this is not about MY beliefs and how I came to such a conclusion Johnny, its about YOUR beliefs and how YOU reconcile them with what you (and many of your Atheist friends) have been shouting off the rooftops all along ie ‘research’, ‘findings’, ‘empirical data’ etc etc. Is there a chance that this same methodology you champion when questioning a believer is not being used by yourself when making such decisions as there being no deity? Is there only one form of research result you’re willing to accept (the absolute form I mentioned earlier)? Of course everybody who thinks Superstition is wrong is little slow on the up-take, what can i say? Are you telling me that i've a belief in another God-like figure, becouse Atheism is lack of belief in Gods? Your meager knowledge about Atheism is suffocating you, so much so you think it's another sort of Belief. The idea of an existing Deity is a possitive claim made by the Theists,and that they fail to support their claim is a universal reality. You haven't been debating Al Burcawi, you posted a "good read" Article, and we're done with it. What is the debate that haven't started that you talking about? Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: I have been asking you a question which can easily be reconciled with the article. The title being ‘Agnostic about Atheism’. When I asked you if we were created ‘from a puff of smoke’ I was pulling your leg (with the ‘puff of smoke’ bit) but I still expect you to answer the question on what you believe is how we were created. If the answer is you don’t know then don’t you think you’re having your cake and eating it? Think long and hard now,,,,,,,,,,, Again, you haven't asked me if we were 'created' ‘from a puff of smoke’ as there is a slight difference between coming into beeing and beeing 'created', and you can't expect me to answer the question on what i 'believe' on how we were created, becouse i don't share with you the assumption that we're created in the first place. What is worth rediculing, but i however won't,is your conclusion that if a person doesen't know how human-beeings were 'created', s/he must accept the idea that Human-beeings are created by God(Allah) from a peice of mud that 'S/He' blowed life into, otherwise s/he will be eating his/her cake and keeping it at the same time. And there you've your exit-point.

Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: JB, Pointing at other people’s beliefs and dismissing them is all well and good (and expected) No,it is not well and absolutely not good, actually the whole Article you posted is about just that, namely, dismissing credulous beliefs equals nettling the religious, which in turn means a discomfort in non-belief. Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: but by using such reasoning (there being a lack of evidence) one is expected to apply the same thought process when making his/her views clear to others on their own beliefs or lack thereof. Or is it a one way street? What is not so clear about not believing in things so easily or readily? Are you asking for evidence that Superstition is wrong? Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: There are many ways of conducting research and results either point to a ‘likely’ outcome or make recommendations on something absolute. In this case (is there a creator?) we are dealing with the former. We will get onto that later (God willing ) Does your religion allow the conducting of researchs,normally religious dogmas forbid questioning,but encourage what we normally refer to 'baking the result'. Originally posted by Al Burcaawi: Back to my earlier question. I did ask you how we (humans) came into being. Now, without the usual merry dance routine, can you answer the question? Enlighten us Are we loosing some cincerity here?, you did not ask me that question, you asked me if i do believe that We all came to being from a puff of smoke. Now that you single handedly decided to abandon the original topic and turn this into Q&A about existentialism, i'm satisfied having countered the original topic about Albert Einstein's letter, namely 'Agnostic about Atheism'.

^Who owned the trade mark of BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA?

^And where is the issue/concept/methodology in believing on a Spagahetti monster? So what do you 'believe' JB? We all came to being from a puff of smoke? I believe in many things, but unlike you i know a belief is not an action, it cannot be attained by command and most importantly,belief is based on evidence, with some amount of intuition, it is not a matter of will or cost-benefit analysis. Becouse that we all did not came to being from a puff of smoke, you can't just choose to believe that yo're created by an unknown power and then attribute to it all the things you find suitable. A Belief based on choice such the above leaves much to be desired, so does Credulity based on choice. To believe in things much too easily or much too readily than reason or logic can justify 'almost' borders a deficiency in Sanity woulden't you say my credulous Al-Burcawi?

As a "cafeteria" atheist and secular Catholic, I don't share that impulse. Such words are the music of the theists. The intellectual dishonesty among the theists has no boundery, how often have we not seen theists getting out of thier way blostering irrational religious commandments. Its not about nettling the religious, it has always been about the religious people's attempts of shoving questionable Axioms down people's throats, getting 'nettled' if and when questioned. That people like Al Burcaawi(Norf) rejoice the Article's futile hint of Atheists too not beeing comfortable in thier non-belief is but expected for the simple reason that the theistic stance is in dire need of constant approval from Reality which it lacks, so poisoning the well and accusing the Atheists of discomfort in their non-belief is a psycologically must do thing. EndSit, He's not calling for co-existence, he's accusing Atheists of beeing snobs.

^You guyz are two decades late, We're not Ahmed. I still remember a vissit to the first Athero in Carlsund( a reugee camp ).

Originally posted by Castro: ^^^^ lol. NGONGE is not a secessionist, he's a self-loathing Burcaawi. ^^^^ Accusing NGONGE of pedantry?

^Is it more like Xidigo placing a magnifying glass over his tiny Somaliland-flag.

Originally posted by Khayr: How ironic - Johnny Boy giving advice on reading about the Prophet who's sayings and teachings he rejects? Not so fast Khayr, actually the irony is your meager attemp at beeing rational human-beeing by trying to point out an alleged irony. I can advice you to read Ibn Ishaq, no, i actually DO advice you to read Ibn Ishaq, and i don't have to necessarily agree with your stances. Disagreeing the validity of what Mohammed( pbuh ) is claimed to have said is one thing, reading about which (historian)writer best biographically depicts Mohammed is another. DUH. Brother Nur, You're right about giving up on people, i too wish and work hard to hopefully help you fight the enemy that made posts on your head (probably through child-indoctrination ),namely Superstition. Getting you realize that, no angel is occupying your shoulders. no woman can get pregnant without human-male sperms. no God (if exists)can be both omnicient , omnipotent and has the will to inform humanity about his/her presence yet can't do that. is not an easy task but not impossible.

Read Ibn Ishaq,an Arab Muslim historian. He collected oral traditions that formed the basis of first biography of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.

Viva president Riyaale !! If Somaliland will ever be a recognized soverign State, it'll happen under Riyaale's leadership. 4 more years !! ( or was it 3? ) Anybody who got any valid criticism against President Daahir Riyaale Kaahin has to do with me,be s/he Lander with pretentious dander or Gander from Growe. If you're a Lander with pretentious dander bring all you render under my sander, the man is holding it together from Lawyade to Dukerak so ditto. If you're a Gander From Growe you better get goofier as you can not gauge the man's glorious deeds against Adde's money-making michines.

Is Somalia a tribal name?

Q How do you view the recent meeting in Aden, among Yemen, Somalia, and Ethiopia, as contribution to the peace in Somalia and the Horn of Africa, in general? R: I view the commitment of these two countries very positively. In addition, Yemen is the only country which has the right militarily to intervene in Banaadir, as for example, the English did in the Falkland Islands and the Turks in Cyprus. Banaadir has been created by people from Yemen. There are hundreds of thousands Banaadiri of Yemenite origin, who have fled to that country. Yemen has the duty and the right to bring these people back home and to protect them, until they are capable to look for themselves. In fact, I think Yemen should start mobilizing, preparing, and training a Banaadiri peacekeeping army. Banaadiris are peaceful people. But their peace messages will be taken seriously only when they have their own army. Somalia is a tribal name? Another hidden fact?

Zafir, No Nuune, MMA, Cara, Val, KK, Naden, Castro or Caano Geel in sight. Just Johhny , your mirror dede. Amar iyo tilmaamiyo gudbe, aade iyo jooje Iskudare, xiriiriye, falkaab, ereyadeeniiya Ebyan iyo haddaan magacuyaal ku arkay joornaalka, Mar haddii afkaygii la qoray aabbe iyo hooyo Mar haddaan amaahdii ka baxay lagu agoontoobay Abaal waxaa leh nimankii fartaas soo abaabulaye (Cabdulle Raage Taraawiil: Afkaygii la Qoray, 1972)

Yeah, Where are the (young) male newbies? Malika and i like same things .... ehem... not what u think you dirty minds. Oh, Welcome Cinnamon, and if you're a young commy chick who will paint SOL red with the happening hipster( Castro), i'm more than willing to be held as the brush.

Cadaanka (aka Liban).

The worst thing about the dab0dh!li!fs and secessionists is their insistencies?

^ Ayoub, you befriend strangers? Welcome Abayo123, and to judge from your choice of nick, you joined SOL to get Ngonge concerned with the urgent.

" It's Castro himself who the other day said the President was his "adeero" " information-based uncertainty or uncertainty-based information ?