Waan ku fahmay i know what you mean but there is also the other side of the story too. You wouldn't imagine the shock i felt when someone i am related to(through marriage) got on the phone to mr x from badioa and asked why they hadn't started bombing the living daylights out of clan x.This is when the intial conflict started.Of course this person will tell you he is a diehard Somali nationalist.

Saxib i was making a general point which is " blind following of any political party or government is not good". This includes the islamic courts union and the t.f.g equally.I hope you get my drift.

http://www.hiiraan.com/news2/2007/jan/security_code_breaker_banks_top_young_scientist_prize.aspx

Originally posted by Sheikh Fiqqikhayre: No Geeljire, it won't come from them but the grenade throwers, child abusers and remnants of anarchy profiteers? NO

What benefits do you feel, if there were any, did Somalia gain/gained from membership of the arab league?(economically and politically) Does the rise of Abdullahi Yusuf and the T.F.G mean that somalia will be more inclined towards the African Union and IGAD? And lastly should somalia still be a member of the Arab League?

You seem to have a habit of calling anyone who disagrees with the policies of the t.f.g as "dowladiid" or "anti government".Somali government will come from the consent of the somali people, not Absynian tanks, American Warships or c.i.a wadaad hunters.........

Obviously one forgots that the somali people where also being oppressed by the likes Dheere and Qeybiid amongst others and probably even more-so than the people you have listed.Obviously one forgots the same country that "liberated" somalia has reduced the somali inhabited territory in ethiopia to a military post.Even detaining and killing hundreds of opposition in ethiopia.Obviously one forgots that Ethiopia and the U.S where in cahoots with the warlords to kidnap innoncent somalis for the c.i.a.Obviously this does't matter because the warlords have know reformed and repented to become politicians and Ethiopia has also repented to become our friendly somali loving neighbour.Whereas dahir Aweys and Inhadcade are the worst hitlers of somalia thus they need to be bombarded with American helicopters, right?

The same people who are not willing to criticize Abysnia for her latest enterprise in somalia, are the same ones who told us there was infact no Abysnians troops in somalia, rather an occupation by a local named Yusuf Siyad Indhacade and the "clan courts" where lying about absynian troops.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/14/wethiopia14.xml

Sheikhow brother you have made some excellent points lakin you haven't got to the crux of the issue and answered the questions i posed.I agree with most of what you say.This same message was given long ago by a man called Abdullah Azzam to the muslim brotherhood members such as zawahiri and others whom where tortured in secular prisons thus wanted to overthrow muslim secular governments. Sheikh Azzam simply wanted to concentrate on freeing the muslims lands first such as palestine, afghanistan, and Chechnya etc. However the sheikh was mysteriously killed in a bomb as he walked out of a masjid.After this what you had was confused groups of muslims carrying out acts of terror here and there and justifying it in the name of Islam. Which led to the blood of the muslims being spilled in places such as Algeria.This must be avoided at all costs. However this is completly different from the situation in Somalia. You are right the islamic courts union recognized the T.F.G and even said they would welcome the president in muqdisho.On this i agree with you completely. But what you have not clarified is the involvement of a third party, namely Ethiopia.Was it islamically justified to declare a jihad against the invading Absynian troops?Thus far all you have said is that the T.F.G can make treaties with anyone they like, this is not the issue at hand.When the islamic cours came to the table all they said was remove the ethio troops and we will negotiate with the T.F.G.However the t.f.g refused to remove the ethiopian troops and claimed that the ethio troops where only advisors. This was far from the case thousands of troops had circled Somalia with the help of somali warlords such as Qeybdiid near Galkacyo. During this time General Abizaid of America had met Meles Zenawi for discussions(probably for war).Furthermore Meles Zenawi had reported to the world and his parliament that His State had made "all preparations for war".In addition to this the Ethiopian Parliament had voted overwhelmingly for war against the islamic courts union: http://www.ethiopianreporter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10153 Dr. Negasso Gidada, former president of the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia In essence, are you saying that the Ethiopian government entered a war without a declaration by parliament? Yes, it has already entered into a war. Again, recently the prime minister openly stated that we are technically at war. This is wrong. We just can't go to war by bypassing what the constitution requires. We shouldn't do it again. We must respect the constitutional order. This is a breach of the constitution. Last Thursday, the PM told parliament repeatedly that we are at war with the Islamists even though we didn't respond. In your opinion, does the present situation constitute a war-like situation? And does it warrant the parliament to declare war? Well, four reasons were given to justify it as a war. The first one is that they declared jihad on Ethiopia. But when they declared jihad on Ethiopia, they qualified it to have meant only on Ethiopian soldiers who entered Somalia. As for their declaring jihad on Ethiopia, I don't know: it could be a matter of interpretation . Did they really declare jihad against Ethiopia and crossed the border? Is that the fact? I don't think so. As comparison, if you take the conflict with Eritrea, that country, in fact, crossed the border and took control of parts of our territory. But we don't see similar situation this time around. The other thing that amazes me is that Ethiopia is under repeated attack from the Somali forces and that we are absorbing those attacks according to the prime minister. If that is the truth, then why did the government keep silent? An emergency session of the parliament should have been called and the problem must have been dealt with. The second reason given is that the Islamic Courts are assisting and sending here anti-Ethiopia forces. This was not clearly explained. What kind of anti-Ethiopia forces are these. Are they snicking in Somali or foreign jihadists into Ethiopia? Or are they supporting and sending other local opposition forces such as the ****** National Liberation Front (ONLF)? These local opposition forces have long existed. Did they train and send fresh forces during the summer? Despite this, I believe that going to the extent of declaring war ought to be reconsidered. I don't think there is a situation currently which forces us to go to war. I see a problem with the request forwarded to parliament to give the green light. As you can see from this interview a third party in reality a kafir led state had declared war on an islamic party of sorts(Islamic Courts Union). This means that the T.F.G where deceiving the I.C.U and the somali public as the "advisors" they had brought into somalia had been preparing for war all along.Furthermore the Ethiopian Parliament not the Somali Parliament had voted for war against the Islamic Courts.Technically this can be interprted as meaning that the Ethiopian Troops on Somalia soil where at war with the islamic courts as their superiors had ordered them to prepare for war. What do you think sheikh should have been the response of the islamic courts union?Put down their weapons and give them all to the T.F.G whilst their friends across the border and the somali warlors had made "all preparation for war"? At this point my opinion is that issue had surpassed the t.f.g and the i.c.u, rather it was that a third party had declared war on the islamic courts. Where the islamic courts not jusitified in resisting the Ethiopian troops on somali soil whom they had asked to peacefully leave all along?Should they have hid in the mosques and quietly preach dawa? What is the true islamic response when a kafir led state declares war on you(islamic courts union) and sends thousands of troops across the border?

double post

Good topic sheikh..Firstly let me say this is an overdue debate and one we somalis need to think very seriously about.The disbelievers could set the trap of pitting muslim against muslims as they have done in Iraq resulting in the blood of the muslims becoming halal for one another.This is what the late Abudallah Azzam warned the followers of the muslim brotherhood(Bin Laden and co) about ie fighting muslims government thus spilling the blood of the muslims. We pray inshallah that this is averted in somalia.Although we have already made our blood halal in the last sixteen years(qabil). Regarding somalia firstly we must ask what exactly is the definition of a "muslim ruler"?In the case of the the islamic courts and the transitional federal government could we not argue that the islamic courts where infact the rulers as they controlled a larger stretch of land?This is why the defintion of a ruler is neccesary, because, islamically speaking who where the legitimate rulers of somalia? Secondly there are two further issues which need to be clarified. Firstly it is regarding the somali warlords whom are know part of the government. They kidnapped ulema,spilled the blood of the muslims and even used some mosques as rubbish sites.In reality they where an obstacle to Islam.Thus the people of southern somalia rebelled against them.Is it permissable again, islamically speaking to rebel against them once again?Secondly in this particular instance, somalia has been invaded by a predominantly non muslim state Ethiopia.What is the islamic ruling on A.a "muslim" government suposedly inviting a non muslim army to invade other muslims and even bomb them in the case of America?B. Do the islamic courts have a right to resist the invasion of the Ethiopians,T.F.G and somali warlords, is this a rebelion or a legitimate struggle in the path of Allah swt? Quote:Educate yourself brother from the culuma of this religion the likes of Sheikh Bin Baz, Sheikh Albani, Sheikh Al-Cuthaymiin, Sheikh Muqbil and Sheikh Rabici! Aren't these the same people who made fatwas allowing the invasion of iraq and promote the teachings of a rebellious group(Abdul Wahab and the followers of Saud) who themselves came to power in the arabian Peninsula by the sword and rebbeling againt the Calipha at that time?

Quote:My condolences to the ordinary Somalis back home which are caught up in this war, it’s a shame really. I am no fan of the government or foreign troops in Somalia, BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Quote:but can you imagine if the icu were not stopped? The khat withdrawl symptons would have got out of hand?

http://subsaharansufis.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22

Tukaale his name is Qabil.

Xoogsade, nobody buyed our country, we auctioned it to the highest bidders over the last 100 years.One individual was responsible for this tragedy 95% of somalis took him as their leader.Do you know his name?

Doodan waxaan u leeyahay dumarkiyo caruurtoo Dadkii idinka waynaa hadday idin duleeyeen Dambi kama ay yaabine cuntay idinka doorteen Duunyaa la dhaafsaday dugsigaad galeeyseen Dameerkuna ma yeelen halkay talo ku daysteen Dab intay shideen bay dalaq idinku siiyeen Doox intay qodeen bay ciid idinku daadsheen Nin idiin damqanayaa idinkama dambeeyee Hadaydaan digtoonaan daad bay idin qaadiye Duleedada kufaartaa dacas idinku laynoo Naf dalkaaga doonaysaa firaash looma daadshee Dabkan aan shidaayaa daawadiina weeyee Dariiqii rasuulkiyo dawga ha ka baydhina The mad mullah

Originally posted by HornAfrique: [QB] Wadaad- Not in Kismaayo adeer, not in Kismaayo. The CIA and the Americans never met face to face with the willing warlords of Mogadishu, but they had met with Barre Hiiraale and he had always declined their offers of even millions. Then he was betrayed. And know he is working/for with the c.i.a.........

We can ask the u.n for a spare one........

I heard the fbi got the most wanted camel in somalia which had been evading them for years.

One of the five points in the somali flag should be cut in half, then you would have 4.5 stars. Remember that 4.5 clannish forumula nonsense.On serious note i find absolutely no relevance in the five points of the somali flag. N.F.D, ******IA, DJIBOUTI are distant dreams of greater somalia and inside somalia you have the breakaway republic of Somaliland,Puntland and in the south you have ethiopian occupation.Has the time not come to change the somali flag.

The article is spot and touches on many of flaws and the contradiction in the islamic courts union.Which where at times indefensible.But the word "crusader" is also a bit of an irony as the self proclaimed "crusade" of George Bush and his allies have to come to haunt the innoncent somali nomads and their livestock.

"So many dead people were lying in the area. We do not know who is who, "So many dead people were lying in the area. We do not know who is who, but the raid was a success," interim government spokesman Abdirahman Dinari told AFP news agency about Monday's raids. " interim government spokesman Abdirahman Dinari told AFP news agency about Monday's raids. Mr. Yusuf said he only heard the news from local radios. "America has the right to hunt down and air bombard wherever those who were responsible for bombing its embassies in East Africa are staying or hiding," he stressed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3891715.stm Members of the Ugandan army (UPDF) undergo military drills at the Singo military training school, 42 miles (68 km) north of Kampala in this undated photograph. Uganda's strategic objective in sending peacekeepers to help pacify chaotic Somalia is to halt the flood of weapons fuelling conflict and banditry in other east African nations like itself, the army said on January 10, 2007.

To fight warlords who used mosques as rubbish sites and started to kidnap innoncent people and ulema for the cia, are these the "other somalis" you are refering to?