Ethiopia doesn't have the capacity or the resources to colonize Somalia. Infact, Somalia(united) is more a threat to her than she is to us. Only thing is that Somali subclans have colonized each other. It doesn't take a genius to work out why her army can travel for miles upon end inside Somalia and face no resistance.Furthermore, Ehiopia is not in Somalia to America's dirty work. Actually the Yanks have been more reluctant to give them the green light to invade over the years, despite them constantly alleging the presence of terrorists inside Somalia. They have bigger and more vital interests in Somalia than does uncle Sam. I would even go as far as saying Somali clans and regions are keeping the Tigray regime in power.........

. "The primary locus of politics in Somalia is not the mosque. Meles Zenawi

Originally posted by Geel_Jire12: The unofficial madaxweynad of Somalia, Jeenday Frazer", has pleged a further $60 million to the Trojan Fedh-ruled Government in Baidoa. We suspect this money is for "reconstructing", that is, after the "destruction" phase. Geel Jire12!

Somaliweyn has been dealt a terrible blow by Menhisti and almost killed by Meles Zenawi and his cohorts Geedi, Qeybdiid, Dheere, Hiraale, Yusuf and all the other warlords and all the other subclan leaders who became national spies for Ethiopia. One wonders how the supporters of these creatures can even mention Somaliweyn.

We have some unfinished Busines from Ahmad Gran times, so we'll go all the way to Tigray region once again, inshallah......

Maybe one day we see a Farax on the moon Eatin bariis with his spoon Have the whole watchin like a bride and groom Macawiss and sandles for shoes United, imagine what we can do..........

@Nabad, try this or just google the title! http://www.somaliawatch.org/archivemar03/040629602.htm

Maxaa intaas oo rag isku tagayaan Horn? Mayey toolkiisi?lolllll

Is this for real? I see Habash study Somali subclans. They probably know more than me........

Edit: This was very good read from brother SOS, in the following thread: http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002523;p=2 Brother Xinfaniin, first of all let me apologise for not replying sooner, I'm at the moment preoccupied with too many things. Also, I sincerely hope that this is not going to be one of those "let's agree not to agree" scenarios again as was the case last time we discussed the course of the Islamic Courts! Again I failed to read your comments, but found the title you gave this thread more than qualified, in relation to my statement, to conduct a serious challenge (unqualified admittedly with reference to my answer) on the presupposition of your question (i.e. something went wrong). Now let me present you first with the rationale of my thinking in relation to this cause célèbre ensue the military setback of the courts and you be the judge afterwards. There are three options that can be derived from the title of this thread, knowing you , there's only one option for me to answer and dismiss the other two with ease. One thing you cannot possibly be saying is that they didn't win, therefore something went wrong (option 1). I think that your analytical mind leaves you with many doubts as to the necessity of the war that had occurred and induces you to suspect that it might have been avoidable all together, was it not for the ill-advised ranks among the leadership of the courts (option 2). I will come back to that shortly in detail, as I assume to be the only option fitting of your intelligence, but on the list of "logic" options deductible from the title, one more suggestion remains: namely, the uberhaupt existence of the Islamic Courts with their ideological standing and ambition was a provocation for a war in essence (option 3). To answer option 2, we need to ask ourselves this question: Were the Islamic Courts ever in a negotiating position to avert the war from happening? If the answer to that is yes, then we can conclude that something went wrong. However, I do not accept that to be the case. The full-scale invasion of Ethiopian army was planned in the first month after the birth of the Islamic Courts while they were still confined within Muqdisho, let alone their subsequent assuming of power in many places outside the capital. Numerous mainstream media sources in the UK (who also directly participated in that war and indeed continue to do so along with many other European countries for that matter) have already reported that the United States masterminded and planned with Ethiopia the war in Somalia as far back as July/August 2006 on the back of then a humiliating defeat of US backed warlords by the courts. That's an open secret reported in The Independent and the Guardian newspapers, Channel 4 did a better job by obtaining the minutes taken at that meeting outlining the agreement between the two countries. The delay in the execution was the result of Allah opening the sky with heavy rains which flooded many parts of the country (to what purpose will become clear shortly). In fact, I was in Ethiopia in July 2006 travelling on land for more than 1000 km by bus and sometimes even by foot, and I can attest to the fact that Ethiopia went to war back in July 2006 judging by the movement of huge numbers military personnel and equipment towards the border of Somalia. I remember one morning walking from Jigjiga to Qabribayax just after praying Salatul-Fajr, when I saw more than 100 cargo and army personnel trucks full of soldiers, equipments and heavy artillery headed towards Somalia. I managed to get a lift from Qabribayax and arrived in Dhagaxbuur later that day where the convoy also passed through; I knew then that Ethiopia was preparing for war. If I knew in my private capacity, the Islamic Courts must have known that too in their organisational capacity, and all indicates that they knew very well. Many things will become irrelevant with that presupposition, but let me give you another one. Ethiopia was planning for many years to invade and occupy Somalia even before the rise of the courts, it only happened ahead of their agenda. They showed a lot of patience, perseverance and painful determination in their efforts to fertilise the soil before they could sow anything. They succeeded in the creation of chaos, killing and mayhem among the less receptive regions of their domination by funding warlords. Imagine that the Islamic Courts had never been there, how do you think people would have reacted upon the sight of Ethiopian troops arriving on their tanks in Muqdisho, claiming to be bringing peace, stability and security to Somalia; how many people would have believed and supported them? Instead Allah (swt) in His Mercy decreed to ruin their evil plans by showing THE solution, an alternative path to salvation and justice, to purity and tranquillity, in short, to Allah (swt) and His Messenger (saw). In light to my latter presupposition of stretching the timescale in order to increase the significance value of my answer to your question, far from concluding that something went wrong; I choose to conclude the opposite Before I go any further, I'll give you the chance to challenge and dismiss all of the above... Brother Xiinfaniin, let's not yet mix the actual battles that took place with the events that lead to the war. The examples cited in your post only refer to the war, its technicalities and deliverance, and not dare I say, the prelude thereof! You ask "how could it be a sensible choice to go to a war in four different fronts given Courts logistical reach?" Again let me repeat the central presupposition referring to the inevitably of the war irrespective of whatever sensible choices made by the courts. It was simply not their choice. Accordingly I opine that they tried by all means to prevent a full war from happening. They made long nights on many flights trying to reason with mindless puppets who don't think for themselves, presenting only the shameless dictums of their of their masters. I don't have to tell how no efforts were spared to invest time and energy in the public relations exercise, both domestically and diplomatically. Even "cut out the middleman" strategy was adopted and tested with Ethiopia (United States played deaf and then produced a dodgy dossier through the UN), and it became clear they were intend upon stifling any productive attempts to settle the issue peacefully vide the presupposition. If any, the courts were guilty of wasting too much valuable time with preventing an inevitable war. What rational choice did they fail to make, I ask you!? Of course the option of unconditional surrender was on table as demanded by Ethiopia in their last face-to-face meeting, which included full denunciation of all our irredentist historical rights to occupied territories, distancing from the central religious ambition to self-determination per rule by the Qur'an and Sunnah, full disarmament and acceptance of Ethiopia troops occupying Somalia. That was the only other alternative choice available, and I really mean it when I say death is a more honourable rational choice. As Shakespeare ones wrote: If we are mark'd to die, we are enow To do our country loss; and if to live, The fewer men, the greater share of honour. God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more. I have no doubt that you "wanted them to win" but winning is costly in terms of lives, time and material; let's not judge in haste without paying the price and conclude that all is lost. You're aware of more than anyone else that the courts rose on the back of oppression and proxy wars initiated by external powers which made life near impossible, and as a reaction, provoked a social/popular movement which grew into previously unimaginable magnitude. Similarly, the Ittixaad movement of the 90's was born out of necessity after the Americans and others under the guise of UN flags were occupying Somalia. Many people erroneously assume that it was Caydiid and his intoxicated militia who heroically fought the Americans single-handedly. In fact, the men who fought most fiercely were not under narcotics and later became the heartbeat of the before mentioned movement; again a necessary reaction to an oppression which lead to events that's history now. Soon there'll be an even bigger movement than the two previous movements, as each is improved by a factor of porportionate increase in experience and lessons learned which's going to thrive on the next reactionary conditions. One thing is for sure, it's a mater of time; another thing is for sure too, the so-called TFG will never succeed! The Ethiopians can't even rule the ****** region where in many parts that I've been to, the ONLF was ruling during the night and the "Wayano" only seemed to rule during the day by fear. The MJXSG was growing and the number of ONLF resistance fighters doubled in the short period that I was there. I cannot think of a situation where Ethiopia is still together as a country in its current form and shape, and with its current policies towards Somalia for many years to come. Provided of course, that we get our acts together very soon (we should discuss that from now on).

Daraawiish nationalism endured in a period when Somali society was widely dispersed and lacked the necessary organisations to form a single political unit, and at a time when colonial powers such as Britain, Italy, and France were expanding their hegemony over the country. As the clan was and still is the most important political unit in the traditional system, Somalis rejected the replacement of their traditional system with that of a state system as offered to them by Sayid Maxamed. Somalis preferred to live in clanism rather than a system that they did not know. I will discuss in this paper the conflict of the Daraawiish state and Somali clans. http://www.somaliawatch.org/archivemar03/040629602.htm

9. According to Brother/sister? Biixi, the I.C.U is a CIA founded operational tool! http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000832

Did Riyaale tell the people what he discussed with Abdullahi Yusuf at Adiss Ababa or is that top secret?

This is like the 10th Kismaayo thread. War Meesha tolow ma dahab ba ku aasan?

@Peacenow, even when there are famines and wars it is they that suffer the most.Walahi, some of the scenes i saw in 2001, when i went on holiday to Somalia were unbelievable. I thought i was in the deep south for a moment.

Ilahow wadaadi so celi, Amiin!

Alxamdulilah......

The corrupt Muslim leaders have their fair share of supporters.Just click on the politics section on sol.

DP

Quote:The United States has made a clear declaration in 2001 that it will go after any nation/group that was responsible or linked to those that attacked its soil and embassies. It made that declaration true when it learned that those responsible the Kenya and Tanzania bombings were in Somalia and were part of the ICU. And that is what happened it went after those that attacked it. ICU itself has made numerous threats against Ethiopia and other parts of Somalia not under their control and even carried out suicide bombings in Somalia and attacks in Ethiopia. What resulted since then is the response of those attacked. So yes wherever terrorists are the US military will be there no one tried to hide. The Prophet (saw) said "Whoever can guarantee me two things I can guarantee them Paradise." The companions asked "What O Messenger of Allah?" He replied "What is between his jaws (his tongue) and his legs (private parts)." (Bukhari) The Messenger of Allah (saw) said "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last day, LET HIM EITHER SPEAK GOOD OR KEEP SILENT" (Agreed upon)

Did you paste that from the C.N.N script?

Xoogsade. where have you been? The persecution has already started. How many people/ulema have killed or sent to Ethiopian jail?

Bixii, Xabashida nagu soo duushey, ma muslim baa?

Adigu maxaad uu maagaysa niin dhaan oo mutcalim Somaliyeed ah? Madaa bhaadhay maskaxdisa iin uu buufis qabo?

So the U.S had no role in Somalia, Biixi? Maybe we imagined their gunships bombarding Somali civilians? Maybe we imagined them authorising North Korea to sell weapons to Ethiopia? Maybe, Ethiopia, a poor country, has all the satelite, military and technological knowhow to conduct an invasion? Maybe, the C.I.A aren't interrogating hundreds of people in makeshift prisons located in East Africa? Maybe, the U.S.A doesn't have troops operatin in the North Kenya region? Or, just maybe, we imagined the U.S blocking of the ocean to Somalia during the war? Maybe, Maybe, the U.S.A isn't providing the armour for the so called peacekeeping mission! Maybe it wasn't the U.S.A that legislated the motion in the U.N that removed the arms embargo! Maybe, the C.I.A didn't back Somali warlords against the Islamic Courts union? Maybe, I could just go on and on, with so many maybes........but i'll leabe you to ponder on this