This thread wasn't really about economics rather about Somalis trying to regain the lands that are under illegal occupation. Therefore, religion has a great deal to do with it. That is, the politics side of things. What crime have all those people who are been sent to the Guntanomos of Ethiopia done other then being Muslims? Why has the Western nations historically favoured Kenya and Ethiopia over Somalia? It doesn't take a genius to work out.

It's just general advice to the U.N, as they claim to be protectors of the weak in the world. I am sure the good Sheikh(raximullah) will be back, bigger and stronger than before. I say there aren't many people like him in Somali politics. Matter of fact, there aren't many Somalis like him.

Did the letter contain an Address?

Bokero, i was referring moreso to the regime in Ethiopia((than Kenya) which occupies and discriminates against a large group of Somalis. Therefore, we support and admire those Somalis that are fighting for self determination and independence from that regime. Our neighbouring countries have also shown a desire to implement( with the help of America) governments and warlords that help their interests.The recent bias in the IGAD and the invasion of Somalia shows this clear bias.One must also not forget that Kenya and Ethiopia still have a defence pact against any agression from Somalia. I believe that Arab league negotiations and meeting would be more honest and frutiful than any meetings set up by IGAD. I understand full well the need for integration and economic mutua cooperation. However, it is slighlty naive to suggest that all is well with our African Christian neighbours. One only has to look at the historical and current roles they are playing in the Somalia conflict.

Sayid Mohamed Abdullah Hassan was probably one of the first Somali nationalists....... But i don't buy the idea that "Islamnimo" and "Somalinimo" are inseperable. One could be an atheist, marxist etc and still be a staunch supporter of "Somalinimo".

It was always clear the Islamic courts were never going to acceot the conditions(surrender or else) laid to them by Ethiopia. Nor was Ethiopia ever going to accept an Islamic group(Alitixaad) with a history of combat against Ethiopia on her doorstep. Which even laid claims to region of Somali Galbeed. This was even less likely given the history of combat between key players in the crisis( Abdullahi Yusuf vs Dahir Aweys). Therefore, there was always one solution, that is, the bullet and gun, as cold as it may sound. The Courts declared Jihad because they knew full well that the Ethiopians would attack sooner or later. Thus they needed to prepare their gurmads and finances for the war effort. So i fail to see how they broke any peace.

. My conclusion is that you guys simply cant think/imagine of a normally functioning Somalia (without foreign military presence) and with an ordinary government. Just what I thought. I think the words you are looking for are accept,morally justify, legitimize, condone, support, cheerleader, praise etc....(Ethiopia and Somali Warlords) Just look through the archives, you will find most people supported the T.F.G when it came to power and no have qualms as to why or how it was formed. The problem we have is the root it has taken, which are not ideologically acceptable for people like myself. Thus the phrase "Anti T.F.G" is a little of the mark. Do you think we are anarchists whom sit in the West and desire no government for Somalia? I think you will find the problem wiht the T.F.G is the baggage that comes with it, which some Somalis can't take!

lolllllllll@nuune or it could have gone like this: Dahir Riyaale with loud speakers: War waa kuma? War bal is-sheeg cidaad tahay? Waxa kula hadlaya madaxweynihi jamuriyada Somaliland! War ninyahow baad joogtid! War hooy is sheeg abtirsiyadada! Qolama tahay adeer? War tolow ma Puntlandkigi baa? Cirkiina maa hadaad nagu qabsateen? Misee wa Abdullahu Yusuf. Ileen wa kii la-laha Hargeysu imaanaya de? Cidaanki Somaliland wa diyaar! Riyaale to troops: Hubkaaaaa! Troops: Waa diyaar! Riyaale:Mar labaad! Troops: Waa diyaar! Riyaale:Mar sadexaad! Troops: Mudane waxba ma aragno! Riyaale: Walee wa ruuntood, war ninyahow wixii cirka ka quxayey xagu ka dhacay!War wuxu ma Jiin mise Shaydan buu aha?

Maybe it was the Maxakamado?

Off topic GeelJire Why is potential or actual investment in the homeland dependant upon the " post T.F.G"? I think the vanishing of the insurgents and the proclamations of victory by Geedi and co are have slighlty raised your hopes to new levels.Your enthusiasm is quite similar to that of Iraqis whom returned to "liberated Iraq". Only to find that they didn't quite understand the homeland they had left.Nor had their economic education in Western universities prepared them for it. As one author put it, "many were convinced that liberlization of markets and free trade would solve all problems". Of course we know the reality turned different. Adeer, ciyaari wa gelin dambee, ha deg degin!Xabashiduna meel uma socdaan, waa inay Somalida is bartaan(si fiican) Somali people have been investing in their homeland in the past 16 years without any real support from government institutions or local groups.I have some business plans in Somalia inshallah, like all Somalis in the diaspoara. Lakin marke hore waa iin hakbaadi la soo uruuriyo, ma fahantey?

Actually it is complete and utter hypocracy. On the one hand those that oppose Ethiopia and the Somali warlords are labeled as dowladiid, anarchists, savages and looters. Whilst on the other hand those that looted and destroyed Somalia for the past 16 years are given new suits and branded as the good guys. Men like Dheere and Qeybdiid have no respect among the Somali population at large. Except for those who are completly driven clanish paranoia and hatred. I fail to understand the reasoning that says, the Islamic courts were warlords and hypocrites just because of one man, namely Indhacade. Whilst it is acceptable as a "smart tactical strategy" when the real anarchists and looters are given power of the Somali populace once again.I also remember the same people who are hailing the today, were the ones who cursing them yesterday because they were opposing Abdullahi Yusuf. I wouldn't even be surprised if these brutal warlords somehow end up winning a large percentage of the vote.Moreover, i wouldn't except of them to set up any accountable legitmate elections. The four months they have been in power, has thus far been charachterised by nepotism, clanism, corruption and many of the ills which this warlord government has been set up to counter. But i accept the blind supporters of these groups to carry on believing that these men are saviours of Somalia and that Somalis apparently putting pieces of paper(2009) in a box for their favourite clan representative will solve all our ills. Nor do i believe that Tigray juntas patrolling Muqdisho along with their warlord alliance, signals the beginning of a rosy patch for Somalia.

Bokero, so why has this so called regionalism and mutual economic benefits left the Somalis whom live in Ethiopia and Kenya in appaling political and socio economic conditions?

Ethiopia came to Somalia to keep it's part of the five points of the Somali flag. Thus anyone who acknowledges and legitimizes their presence in Somalia automatically supports their claims and occupation of the region formerly known as Somalia Galbeed!

The so called government forces who are apparently being trained are nothing more than sub clan militias and former warlords. When one sees former brutal warlords such as Qeybdiid and Dheere being given lavish suits, whilst releasing the moryaan militias on the populace, it really does make reconciliation and federalism look like a sham.

Somaliland wants to part from Somalia. Djibouti is no more and Somali Governments have given up their claims over the Ocaden regions and the N.F.D.Which leaves a tribal fiefdom in Puntland and a Warlords/Ethiopian playground in Southern Somalia. What is the all fuss the flag about?

@Bokero, how can we integrate and unite with one who occupies and treats our fellw brothers as animals? This like asking South Lebanon to integrate with Israel and forgot about all their problems. Firstly they must grant equal rights to Somalia. Otherwise one day down the lines, if the correct leadership and economic situation arises we will have to do it ourselves.

I would have thought Jacaylbro would have a copy in his bedroom?

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: and i need the definition of the WAR LORD ,,,,, Translation: Why are you calling Riyaale a warlord?

Bokero, i think the title of the thread is wrong and misleading. Because the land belongs to our forefathers and their descendants. The people who occupy them descend from people who originate in the highlands of Tigray region. They have been subjected to the most gross forms of humans rights possible. The objective of freeing these lands in the future, is not to start more wars or creat mischief in the land. Moreover, i don't entertain the idea of any Somalis carrying such feats in the near future. We are divided and amongst the low of the low, thus these adventures would bring more suffering to us. However, if an Islamic orientated leadership or governnship were to arise in Somalia, which united people and economic development were to occur. It would be the duty of the leader to assist the people in this land. Ofcourse those oppressing them would be given plenty of chances to give them more freedom and gurantee their safety. if they were to refuse than we would be compelled to march and free our brothers. Also even go beyond the territory of our brothers and sisters inhabited to the land inhabited by other Muslim groups and free them also. Just as they come to our shores and march to foot of the indian ocean. They say the best form of defence is attack. Hence the reason why Somalia has been decreasing in size and its Christian neighbours have been increasing in size. Of-course these are the utopian rumblings of a young bwelidered refugee in the West. Who acknowledges that no Somali is capable of this feat anytime soon. Nor would i encourage anyone to do so.

Baashi, the Islamic courts shababs tc..... had a common enemy with the clan elders and insurgents. One suspects that the clan orientated people and clan elders will negotiate with Ethiopia and Abdullahi Yusuf if the right concessions and incentives are offered($?). Whilst the people whom are termed as "Islamists" knowadays will never negotiate with them or surrender to their wishes. This is due to gross ideological differences.

@Dhubad, waxaan maqlay iin ay naaxeen(Tigraygi) sidii loo sinaayey bariis iyo hilib iyo muuski Somaliya!

Remember my brothers and sisters how these brutal warlords used to prey on the weak?Remember how they fought against the deen of Allah? Then Allah swt sent his forces against them and they were the ones that were humilated. They had all the money and weapons from the world, but a few wadaads took all their weapons and defeated them time and time again. Allah swt also exposed to us in a true daylight, who these satanic warlords were working for, when they went to regroup with their masters in Adiss Ababa. Know they are back and even bigger and stronger. They have more guns than before even better suits and titles than before. Inshallahu they will be humilated once again for fighting against the deen of Allah.swt...

Quote:Informed people know that Somaliland, the British protectorate that existed prior the independence and the Somaliland of today are two different entities. Exactly and moreover, the British had different agreements with the various different subclans. Some assisted them and others fought them brutally for 2o years. Today you have people in 2007 that believe that all these different subclans should be adminstred by Somaliland, all because they were claimed by her Majesty!

Originally posted by Mj. bada Cas: [QB] ^ Secndly, those folks in Somali galbeed need to handle their own business, since offcourse they named the whole area under one tribe, then you are on your own peeps. They didn't name it, it was the British colonialists and others who gave the name to the region. Besides your "country" is also named after the name given by the British colonialists. Also the same borders you are trying to redraw! Quote:There are many things for me to worry about in Somaliland. The why are so concerned about "Ethiopian Invasion" of Muqdisho?Surely you have more things to worry about in Somaliland? Quote:Such as making sure folks get better education, better health facilities and care. And all around good system of government which Insha Allah I hope follows the Islamic guidlines. How can you follow Islamic guidlines, when you advocate abandoning your Muslims brothers for small wordly gains?How can you follow Islamic guidlines when you advocate nationalism amongst Muslim peoples and splitting up into seperate nations?This sounds very much like how Arabs speak of Palestine.....Don't get me wrong am not against Somaliland peoples self determination etc.....But i fail to understand how one has more things to worry about than the people in Somalia Galbeed.....but constantly worry and lecture about Muqdisho.....

Next they might pass the patriot act bill like Uncle Same.