Xiin, A somali garad from minesota came back with a laptop, so that was a first i guess. Also a cousin of mine went to a tuulo with a c.d player, it caused quit an amusement among some of the odayaal. Imagine this: Somalia without nomads, only the people we call "beeraley", "tuumalo" and others. Would it be more prosperous and peaceful?

Buy you wish "strong men" like Qeybdiid and Dheere on the Muqdisho populace. Why not a doctor for Muqdisho too?

Xiin, meesha waxaan islaha diplomaciyad ka bilow. I am modern day 21st century GeelJire, probably take a laptop with me back to the hood.

Forget T.F.G, the anti terror alliance has been returned to Muqdisho!

What is wrong with eating fish? If it was any other people in the world, they would have seen fish as a healthy diet.

Quote:"Some of the remnants of the Islamic Courts have been caught wearing veils. During the war, these remnants, pretending to be women, killed so many government troops." Somalis are generally moderate Muslims and most women traditionally cover their heads but not faces. Officials say some suicide attacks have been carried out by men disguised under full face-veils, known as indhasharer in Somali. I know you highlighted those quotes for a reason. But i think this is a rather pathetic and unacceptable execuse. The second Somali that carried out a suicide operation was dressed in military fatigue( as worn by t.f.g and Ethiopian army)will you stop and arrest people with military uniformers? The first suicide bomber, who's operation can viewed on the internet, was also wearing normal clothing. So tell us what suicide operations have been carried by men dressed as veiled woman? Or tell us which suicide operations were uncovered due to men with veils been captured? One is surpised at these actions, considerign the fact that the former terror alliance of warlords is once again in control of Muqdisho. But this time they have the support of the entire world, to do as they wish.

as Suldaanka said the disafication about the union from Somalilanders was clear from the get go, when the South took both posts, the Presidency and PM spot, Are you saying certain clans were angry? because as i have said before there was never a group of people called "Somalilanders" at that time.

Two hand grenades have gone off in the Somali capital, Mogadishu, where government soldiers were confiscating and burning face veils worn by women. A BBC correspondent says one woman was injured in the explosions at a junction near the city's main Bakara market. Eyewitnesses say soldiers were ordering women in burkas to remove their face veils on Tuesday, but the operation was later stopped by their superiors. Wearing of face veils was encouraged by the Islamists ousted last December. Correspondents say traditionally Somali women tend to just cover their heads, but in recent years burkas - which cover the entire face and body - and niqabs - a veil for the face that leaves the area around the eyes clear - have become more popular. The Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) which ruled much of southern Somalia for six months last year were driven from power by Ethiopian-backed government forces. Last month, Mogadishu experienced its worst fighting in 16 years as the government soldiers and insurgents battled for control. The government says it has now defeated Islamist fighters and the new mayor of Mogadishu is trying to stamp his authority on the city. Fear Eyewitnesses says people became angry when government soldiers began burning the face veils, saying it was a religious violation. The BBC's Mohammed Olad Hassan in Mogadishu says women were fearful of leaving their homes wearing veils on Wednesday morning. However, as news spread that it was not an officially sanctioned operation, they have felt more confident about going out into the streets. Meanwhile, the demolitions of illegal structures has entered a second day. Mogadishu's mayor, former warlord Mohamed Dheere, said the exercise was to boost security and clean up the city. Last Friday he banned people from carrying weapons on the streets and gave a 15-day ultimatum for illegal buildings to be removed. Our correspondent says piles of rubble and corrugated iron sheets can be seen in the city. Some people have begun demolishing their own buildings. "I have been running a small tea-shop but I have destroyed it," a widow with four children told the BBC. "Now I have nothing to support my family," she said. Thousands of people who make a living from similar small-scale businesses in the city are being affected by the demolitions, our reporter says.

Religion is a Judeo-Christian concept. Islam is called a deen( a way of life) and the word for religion in Arabic is completely different. Anway, the debate turned religious when Mr Khalaf asked a question about Ocadenia and Palestine. But i will answer your points, when i get the time.

Suldaanka, there was no absolutely no such thing ad a group of people calling themselves Somalilanders before 1991. Unless you want to tell us that the colonial protectorate of Somaliland and the current day Somaliland are the same thing. Furthermore, how could the bad feelings towards the union have been there in the 1960s, when Somaliland wasn't independent to begin with? And please don't say Somaliland was an independent country for 4 days as some do. The British had different deals with all the subclans which can historically be verified. The modern day Somaliland was born out of a clan rebellion by the S.N.M.Just like there was other clan rebellion against the government. After this the peace process brought in other clans into the process. But what i have never understood is, who intiated the idea that new Somaliland should have the same borders as the one adminstrated by the British colonialists?

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^^ True. But if he manages to pacify Somalia (by force) and rule it, then, as was the case with a million bad men before him, history will be written by the victor (i.e Mr Yusuf). You mean like Siyad Bare?

@lollll @Ngone, you made me laugh, attacking a man outside a masjid ha ha lollll Socod Badane has a valid point. When the I.C.U came to power many Somalis saw them as the X clan wadaado.Also all the sub clans started competing and made their own maxkamado. Remember how many maxkamado started opening up in Muqdisho. This was the same case with Sayid Mohamed, the reason his movement failed was because of the Somali subclan system. Again they saw him as the O clan wadaad. The British, Italians and Ethiopia have found out this tool(sub clan system) to divide Somalis. Even when we tried Socialism/Marxism it was scuppered by the clan system and the regime using Somali clans against one another.

Xiin, i will try to answer your points inshallah! Caamir, Geel_Jire said: " Of course, I don't entirely believe many of the things I have just said".

Excerpt from Shock and Awe: Achieving Rapid Dominance Sons and Daughters of Baghdad Sons and Daughters of Baghdad: The hour of your liberation draws near Stand in shock and awe At the strength of our much-burdened shoulders. Sons and Daughters of Baghdad: The hour of your liberation draws near Watch as your homes and buildings burn Cower as the earth around you shakes Cry as your windows smash and shatter Run and flee as our armored forces gather Sons and Daughters of Baghdad: The hour of your liberation draws near Watch the skies for the first signs of your freedom: Cruise missiles Electricity fizzles Microwave bombs 21,000 pound Laser-guided Radar-guided And God-guided munitions To bring your democracy to fruition. Sons and Daughters of Baghdad: The hour of your liberation draws near We extend towards you our white hand Once embraced by many in vain: Indian, African, Vietnamese, And washed clean of their colored red stain. Sons and Daughters of Baghdad: The hour of your liberation draws near Spread the good news to the hospitals To the cancer wards To the 500,000 Lying quietly in their tiny coffins And to those among you Who will soon join them. Sons and Daughters of Baghdad: The hour of your liberation draws near Rest assured--your fate is secured Prepared by the Messianic and the Chosen Inspired by the liberators of Palestine: By tanks, settlers, bulldozers, By starvation, torture, curfews By occupation, apartheid, ethnic cleansing By 1948 And 1492. Sons and Daughters of Baghdad: Shock and Awe is here Prepare your eulogies, your epitaphs For the hour of your liberation draws near. M. Junaid Alam, Northeastern University, Political Science Undergrad, Member of Northeastern University Campus Against War and Racism, alam.m@neu.edu

Xiin, didn't you know the warlords are being used for the greater cause? That is, to fight warlordism, anarchy and the sacred looted properties! Welcome to the new Berlin, the wall of anarchy has finally fallen!

Quote: If we're going to mathematically/logically sum up wat Somalia has done for individuals here and what their qabil has done for them, the majority would go for Qabil over Somalia. In the turmoil in Somalia, I say my Qabil has fought harder for my families';protection and welfare than any other group. That's what comes first in my identity. Simple format, think it through before sounding like hippy douchebags with the whole "unity" thing. This was written by Somali youth on another forum. Does he have a point? Is he wrong/right?

Sheikh Xiinow, Why would Somalilanders want to come back to the unity, when there is no unity in the first place? Why would they want to preserve the people whom they say commited genocide against them? Furthermore, why should they take the ambitions of Ethiopia seriously? When the Ethiopian regime took care of them, whilst Somalis were fighting against them and allegedly commited a genocide against their people.Moreover, Ethiopia gave them food, shelter and safety when they were in their hardest time. Thus to them Ethiopia has been a key ally during the good and the bad times. One could even the rival Somali subclan poses more of a threat to them than Ethiopia does. This could equally be said of many a Somali clans and sub-clan, whom don't mind having a healthy relationship with Ethiopia or even asking them assist them against the threat of reer Bakayle-Weyne, who are intent(as they imagine) on taking their wells, cities and revenging the deaths of 1970 codh-codh. Of course, I don't entirely belive many of the things I have just said.Nevertheless, the questions is: What can we offer Somaliland? If it is unity don't we need to get unity first and make it work? Don't we need to show them what their missing out on? It's a like a premiership footbal team right at the bottom of the table that is about to be relegated, asking a player who's team is just safe(above) from relegation, to come and join them. They promise him that more money will come into the team(and him) time in the near future and more better players will be bought, thus making them better than his former club. The dillema of the player is, " Does he join the poorer club and hope for better things in the future than he has now? This could mean relegation to the poorer division! Or " Does he stick safe with the team that is just above the relegation and doing better than the club that is making the offer? In other words, why should Somaliland give up what it is earned and for what?

Bokero, lol we seem to be going around circles. I will explain my stance better soon! Khalaf, Falestin will only be liberated through the collective ummah( as prophecised by the Nabi), as was done in the past. The black flags will and must come from all over( if you know what i mean). Abdullah Azam dwelged into this strategy during the soviet war, but he was mysteriously killed(shaheed)in a car bomb in Pakistan. The return of the Bani Israel to Al Quds is also an Islamic prophecy/Biblical prophecy.Thus, occupation or fitnahs/trials doesn't mean that you are on the wrong path. Also don't forget that some our Palestine muslim brothers welcomed the Jewish immigrants to their land. It was handful of people that realised the danger, whislt some said Jews should be welcomed as "People of the book".Moreover, they had been fighting as Arabists and so on and so forth. Infact, it was common place(according to Sheikhs) for Palestinians to curse god in the every day language. The resistance was always lead by secularists such as Fatah. The Islamic movements have also materialised in the last twenty years. Hamas was strangely enough supported by Israeli at first to counter the threat of Fatah. Which mean they weren't neccesarily on the "Xaq". As one observer said, "Palestine was an Islamic struggle, then it became and Arab strugglle and then a Palestinians struggle". Even inside the secular and Islamic movements, you have layers and layers of factions and competing ideologies. This is also the case with the Ocadenia struggle. Which was an Islamic struggle against the conquests and plunderers of Menelik, after that it became a "Somali struggle" under Siyad Bare and finally it has become a secular "Ocadeni" struggle for the indepedence and self determination of those people in that region. I don't have much time, but i hope you get the jist of wait i am saying.

You really shouldn't give much credit to this little general.During the last Muqdisho battle, his own troops were lying injured on the floor pleading for help in Af xabashi and they(Ethiopian army) couldn't even collect their injured men. The confident face is designed to conceal the mass casualties inflicted on his troops by the Somali resistance. Even during the first war near Badioa, it was the American Airfoce and helicopters that won the war for them.

Quote:His foreign policy is likely to break the mould of French diplomacy and be more supportive of the US and more pro-Israeli than any previous French leaders. He reminds of Tony Blair although more right wing........

@Khalaf, i will try to answer your query inshallah.

Tomorrow they will find Osama in Muqdisho. Only to to say that he was a Somali lookalike!

Quote:Geel, your preoccupation with religion and conspiracy, clouds you ability to see the bigger picture... 1. Ethiopia occupies and terrorises a large portion of Somali territory(Somali Galbeed) 2. Kenya also holds a portion of Somali inhabited land( although not as bad as Ethiopia) 3. Both of these countries have a combined defence pact against Somalia! 4. Ethiopia government was instrumental in supporting Somali warlords over the last 16 years!Also it armed many of the rebel groups that overthrew the Somali government! 5. Ethiopia currently occupies and invaded Somalia, on the pretext of fighting Islamists(a.k.a Islam) 6. Meles Zenawi(apparently) said that he would not allow Somalia to be ruled by the Quran and Shariah! 7. Hundreds of Somalis and Muslims have been sent to the Guantanomos of Ethiopia, why? because they are (terrorists( a.k.a Islamists). 8.Ethiopian regime( according to some organizations) commited what amounted to a genocide in Muqdisho. 9. Kenya has taken a huge role in combating terrorists in Somalia( a.k.a Islamsists). 10.Kenya has also closed it's borders, again reaffirming the role it's playing alongside Ethiopia in the current conflict! 11. Kenya played apart in the detention and transfering of Muslims and Somali suspects to C.I.A agents! 12.When Somalis want to build a government they go to Adiss Ababa or Nairobi! 13.All our historical military bases in Muqdisho are currently occupied by Ethiopia. Don't you think we have done enough integrating already? My simple knowledge leads me to believe that our two neighbouring countries are frightened of a strong and nationalistic Islamic/Nationalistic Somalia neighbour in Somalia.Therefore, they have and still are attempting to place dictators, warlords and puppets who serve their interests and not the Somalia peoples. So we need a Somali solution to Somali problems. Our neighbours are playing to much of a role in running the affairs our country, whilst turning sub clan against sub clan. So we are already integrated to the extent our politicians are handpicked and bribed by Adiss and Nairobi. If they want integration let them respect our religious, sovereign and nationalistic principles.Otherwise they will be more and more people that will start to believe in these "conspiracy theories", which will only breed more violence in the horn.

Juje, there was never really anything to agree on. Both sides were demanding thngs that were deemed unacceptable by both the other.

Granted their will be C.I.A operatives in any Islamic organisation.But the hypocrites will disperse and been found out when the going gets tough. As for Sheikh Shariff meeting U.S in Kenya, there was no point in killing him, detaining him or harming hin any way. Because they would make him into martyr. This would create negative feeling from the Somali people for the U.S.A. They knew full well, he was a respected "moderate figure". They tried to use him in order to break the unity of the Islamic Courts. They thought if the moderate Sheikh Shariff negotiates and surrenders to Ethiopian wishes, whilst denouncing his comrades in the I.C.U as terrorists, they would score a political victory. Because it would be seen as a extreme Alitixaad( Ceyrow/Aweys) affair. But the good Sheikh rejected their demands just as he did in Yemen. He held firmly to his believes that he would never accept Ethiopia presence in Somalia. Nor would he desribe his comrades as terrorists and denounce them, as their was no evidence to do so. Thus they where left with no choice to release the Sheikh. What if makes this claim more absurd, is the fact that the I.C.U fought the Somali warlors, whom were C.I.A agents. So we now full well who are the C.I.A agents in Somalia. However, we are not Allah swt and he knows best who is he. But we believe in the innonce of our brothers until we have evidenc to prove otherwise. These doubts are created by shaytan and the people who sectretly and openly support the Ethiopian invasion of Somalia. They want to demonize the muslims, in order that people stop supporting and start supporting the enemies of the Muslims and Somali people. Therefore, they make accusations of clanism, terrorism, spies and other allegatiosn to justify and legitimaze the awful massacres and humans rights abuses that occured in Somalia. Moreover, they use it as a distraction tool to cover up these abuses.