How they earn their income isn't particularly important here, but seeing as you are so interested, perhaps you can research if for us? They are refugees, Sheikhs who are doing a vital job in giving dacwah to their community in the West. If all the Somalis Sheikhs left the West, who would give dacwah in Somali to the masses? As for the Surah concerning Awliyah, they are talking completely different. They are talking about the Islamic Xukum on the people who lead an non Muslim force to invade their county that declared war on Shariah such as Zenawi in this case. Perhaps in your understanding there is a different xukum on such a person? And there are etiquettes to observe when talking about Ulema, ya ikhwani?

Originally posted by peacenow: I'm telling you what I see now. The country is under occupation. Only 20% literacy rate and we have more people studying Quranic studies that have no use and benefit in a modern state. The country has no Oil. Nothing. Women walking the streets dressed even worse than Arabs. The Arabs have oil, they camn sleep all day if they want, Somalis can't afford to take in their thought system and apply it here, when it will not work. But Islam has not existed in Somalia only during the civil war. So I again I ask if you can prove that Islam specefically and not any othe cause made Somalia what it is today? Arabs having oil or women walking the streets dressed as Arabs is irrelevant to the issue. You even said Somalis had never established a rule of law, but again that is nothing but another one of your unsubstantiated facts.

Arabs didn't start slavery as it was practised by many previous empires such as the Greeks, Romans etc... Arabic culture can be called inherently biased against ppl with dark skin. This is a historical fact. But if I was a Somali Bantu today, I would rather live in Saudi Arabia then any major Somali city. When I went to Northern Somalia there was this muscular Somali Bantu Guy who couldn't even walk outside any day without ppl laughing at his features or calling him deragatory words such as Jareerka or Adoonka. Sometimes he used to stop and say, "Muslim ma ihi? Salad ma tukado? Xita one day we had a feast in my aunties house and after everyone had finished waxa loo yeedhay the Somali Bantu kids and mothers in ay baaco ku gurtaan cuntaadi laa so hanbeeyey. And while they were putting the leftover in plastic bags like animals, wali waa la cayey! Inalilahi Wa Inaleyhi Rajicun. anyway this thread is about the future champions a.k.a xabadaha f.c! we lick gunzhots u hear wa me say rudeboyz? me nat play wit lickle utz like dem ras a chelsea and liverboul! erboul!just jokin

Has this shame existed in Somalia throughout it's 100 years of Islamic history?Or did it only exist during the last 17 years of enlightened secular rule? You do make alot of statements and unproven facts without backing them up with an historical facts. Can you prove that Islam made Somalia backwards? How do you know Somali people weren't at their most powerful during their Islamic era?

IMG]http://centerholdsit.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/arsenal.png[/img] BRAP BRAP BAC BAC QAC QAC GUNSHOTS [/QB]

Nur, some would say the biggest single or collective crime was commited against the indegenous people of South America by European Christians. The figures for that genocide are unknown, but it runs into the hundreds of millions!

Portugal attacked during the time of Ahmad Gurey but he(Menelik) got a hand from the British during Menelik's era. If that is what you mean by your question?

http://tazkiyah.net/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=&task=videodirectlink&id=99

I think the Sheikh makes a mistake when he says Menelik attacked Harar with Portugal, Allahu Yaclam!

http://tazkiyah.net/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=&task=videodirectlink&id=99

quote:Lets face it, anytime that the so called "infidels" as you put it show slight respect to a political figure who is a muslim, y'all hate on him or her, is that simple. Because what usually happen is that this "respectful" person ends being used and then discarded. They are used to fight against their own peoples and serve the interests of others. So they(so called Infidels) themselves have no respect for this person, other then seeing them as a tool. Bhuto was a forgotten all of these years and then all of a sudden she starts making threats if she got in power she would allow bombing of the Wazistan province and allow the Americans more of a role in Pakistan's affairs. Next thing you know, the women is on every t.v outlet being heralded as the saviour of Pakistan. The fact that she met with that wretched individual named Hamid Karzai just before her death what type of leaders she was being groomed to be. People who scream to the international media that slighter lighter bombs should have been used against their own civilians. Even Osama Bin Laden was once respected and heralded as a hero and freedom fighter..

or in some cases they will replace them...

The Point,There will be a new hero in a few years time. He's/She is receiving the script for the show somewhere in London or Washington. I think the next candidate might be in the mould of a "practising" Muslim type political figure, if you know what I mean!

Old news saxiib, find the thread, there's already been a heated discussion I believe on this matter! And she was beaten up by some guys she was frequenting a bar with, not Sheikh Osama's clique. But I can see being developed as a future role model and saviour of Muslim women..somewhere along the line...

quote:Benazir Bhutto wexey aheed naag naagteeda eh. I think Khayr an co prefer more of this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8v35mn3FWR0

jus ask duke for a list of pro t.f.g websites......

Juje, even worser than that is that these "Mujahideen"( modern day Khawarij) are willing to blow themselves against their political rivals, but they are also willing to take with them anyone that is within a a kilomtere of that area. It doesn't matter if these are women, children or enemies! I mean how many Pakistanis have they sacrificed to kill this women? One could say Alqaeda and Ayman Al Zawahiri is probably responsible for the destruction of the Islamic movements in Afghanistan, Iraq and possibly some other countries.

The actions of politicians have to discusses and scrutinized. Otherwise we won't learn anything about were they went wrong and what good they did. Of course it is good to let the "dead rest in peace". But the Quran is full of stories about the deeds and feats of dead leaders. These are lessons to mankind...

The rule of law has never been established in Somalia? Who told you that? Secondly, uneducated and nomadic Somalis still rules and regulations that governed their way of life. One doesn't need to be educated to have rules of law. Various nomadic tribes across the world who couldn't read or write had systems of representative governments and rules of law... Europeans travellers could travel from one Somali clan territory to another relatively peacefully due the Somali clan system which had rules of law. Somalis have also had various Emirates, Sultantes and Garad systems which we governed by rules of law.So it is a bit misleading to say that Somalis have never the rule of law.

The Somali state wasn't founded by an Arab Sultanate. Ibn Batuta amongst others said the Berberi(Soomaali) live from Zeylac to Muqdishaw. But what happened is that European scholars theorized that all the coastal and historic Islamic emirates of the Horn were built by Arabs. So I think we should be slightly careful with ideas such as this: quote:Early history traces the development of the Somali state to an Arab sultanate, which was founded in the seventh century A.D. by Koreishite immigrants from Yemen

Originally posted by General Duke: Islamisam is important, these people are terror groups hiding behind the religion just like those clowns in Somalia. They should be dealt with. No nation is ever too important. Great empires and civilizations have been destroyed, defeated and ceased to exist. Only difference in this case is the N word is at stake( Nuclear) and Pakistan has the privileg of supposedly hosting that rather illman who apparently plans major operations in London and New York from a cave somewhere in.... Some people are trying to bring about the descent of Pakistan into Chao, in order to entice the Americans to launch a full scale invasion, thereby starting another international and region Jihad or Insurgency.....

Originally posted by peacenow: This should really be a lesson to those of us on here that have been saying for a long time, that religion and politics does not mix. That Islamism is a fundamental threat to the development and well being of everyone and a threat that must be defeated. Some people have little understanding, sensitivity or any real historical learning of the backgrounds, religion and culture of their native countries. They read something in a book or magazine like, " Islamism must be defeated" or " religion must be seperated from politics". And then they treat it like a universal revelation which can be imposed on all the peoples of the world. Only when they go back to their home countries they are out of touch with reality and they actually excerbate the situation rather than developing any problem solving skills. This occured in Iraq when secular, liberal and antireligous politicians were sent from exile in London to run affairs in Iraq, but of course as one Western Journalist noted, governing countries doesn't come from simply reading textbook isssues such as the seperate of religion and state, liberal economics and civil society and then regurgitating it like a parrot. These people in Iraq had little idea of the religous and cultural indentity of the ordinary folks of that country. They were just had Iraqi bodies but European minds! Clearly Baghdad was not Brussels! Bombing countries to the oblivion and making harsh threats like "Islamism must defeated at any means" only increases support for these groups. It has been historically shown that foreign domination by others always increases Islamic indentity and resistance to the imposition of foreign values. As I said before, clearly sitting in the halls of Western universities and mingling with White European elites makes some develop a sort of aloofness and what can only be termed as an approach of being "more European than the Europeans", when they go back to the "civilize" the natives on behalf of their masters. A bit similar to a Somali man who is said to have returned to Somalia and apparently told the natives " Don't touch me I'm Italian". So the question is: if indeed we are adopting truths such as, "religion must be seperated from politics in the Muslim world; who, where and how exactly will this seperation occur? Surely it can't be millitant anti-Islamic secularism? Which has failed in every Muslim state which has adopted it. Including the dicatorship in Tunisia, who's old leader once famously tried to stop business and local citizens from observing the fast in Ramadan because he felt the country was in an "economic development Jihad, which apparently meant that there was no obligation on them to fast... He tried to get a fatawa from the Ulema declaring this issue to be correct, but they all protested and refused issue such a Fatawa. In the end he relented.What was I talking about again?

Libaaxow, how did work that one out, ie Bin Laden, Alqaeda and Musharaf are all in cohorts? I mean the fact Osama hasn't be caught could well be explained by the tribal support and the allegiance to the Taliban in the NWF. I also seem to remember several hits on Musharaf by Alqaeda. Mullah Mohamed Umar was actually pleased that Musharaf had allied himself with the Americans, because he felt it would disprove the myth the the Taliban were just puppets of Pakistan. They might have been a time when the political leaders of Pakistan were allied to the millitants like the Taliban, but they are probably regreting that know and those days are likely to be over( in my opinion).