quote:Camel boy, you are off topic. Stick to the topic fella. True there are interest groups making things difficult for all of us. Those include Uncle Sam and AU. The topic is to do with AU saxiib and their role in reconciling Somalis as they put it in their own fancy drawn up list. The poster of the topic asked if they can be successful in reconciling Somalis and perhaps meeting their other objectives. Thus I am saying they can't reconcile or make peace between Somalis because they are taking one side and are essentially American mecenaries. quote:Do Somalis need it now, berrito, saad dambe, saakuun, at all! I mean regardless who did what or who is supporting whom are we better off solving thsi sh*t by ourselves under acacia tree somewhere in the san dunes? The answer is Somalis need reconciliation today, tommorow and saad dambe.However, reconcialition has demands and everybody will come to the table with a set of principles or policy objectives for Somalia. So it's not an issue of Somalis sitting under a tree under making love(not in that way), because all Somali groups have vested interests and foreign backers. Somalia is not at a Civil war like the 1990s and there is no proxy clan war as some would have us believe. This is a different war that has roots of religion, ideology, clanishness, international wars and many other elements. This isn't a traditional Somali conflict by any means. Thus one will not solve the issue in Somalia by collecting Somali clan elders with fat bellies and walking sticks who are only after money. If this is what some mean by reconcialition, then we saw it fail in Muqdisho last year and we have seen it fail for 17 years. Truth be said, reconciliation( to an extent) is at the hands of America, Ethiopians and the fellow warlords they brought to power. The other side has always been open to negotiation, dialogue and compromise with them, but clearly the demands they are making are totally unacceptable. Marka, everybody believes in negotiation and reconcialition, nobody has a monopoly on these phrases. Even Abdullahi Yusuf also firmly believes in reconcialition( when it suits him). Here are the demands that He(Yusuf) would bring to the table: 1. I.C.U should firstly disarm and recognise T.F.G before coming to the table. 2. Americans demand certain men in the ranks of the I.C.U and Alshabaab should be handed over. Furthermore, Ethiopians look likely to be in Somalia so long as those men are around. 3. T.F.G insist that Ethiopians are helping the the recognised Somali government and have a right to be in Somalia. 4. I.C.U in return demand removal of all Ethiopian troops from Somalia( something they wont accept). So on what grounds should I.C.U reconcile, negotiate and compromise on those demands? Should the I.C.U disarm, recognise Ethiopian occupation and come to a qhudac tree? How can the I.C.U hand over wanted men who are armed and have their own militias? How can the I.C.U recognise that Ethiopians have a right to be in Somalia, when it is this very principle that brought them to war in the first place? Marka, there is negotiation and compromise; and there is also handing Somalia over to Ethiopia on a plate with lots of kethcup(Somali blood). Of course SOmalis can hold grand reconciliation meetings, but I doubt the T.F.G officials will make peace with their rivals and go hom to General Gabre to instruct him, " your time is up bro,we Somalis made peace under a qhudac tree, time to go home Gabre". Know that they( Ethiopians) will send their Somali henchmen with a list of their own demands. If you were brought to power by them; guarded by them; and politicall supported for advancing Ethiopians interests, then is most likely would one have to show a certain amount og loyalty to Meles Zenawi. Marka, those are the issues that are causing a stalemate in Somalia. If one can break those points, ie assure I.C.U and other Somalis Ethiopian will leave and secondly assure them(Ethiopians) if they leave T.F.G wont be attacked, you have a chance of at least starting a reconcialition process. Issues concerning Somaliland, Puntland, clan grievances and reconciling Somali clan elders must are of less importance than those key sticking issues. One can't runaway from the reality in Somalia and pretend that Ethiopia's role in minimal whilst Somali clan elders/leaders hold the key to expelling them from a qhudac tree. No point sitting under a tree when some young Somalis are going to toe toe with Ethiopian tanks, when both couldn't be bothered about the outcome of any qhudac tree meeting. So what to compromise and negotiate on exactly? What if those demands are unacceptable to both parties? Who comes to the Qhduac tree : Abu Mansur, Adan Ceyrow, Hassan Turki, Dahir Aweys? Will Americans allow T.F.G to meet with those wanted men and vice versa? Will Gabre Dilla come to the Qhudac tree or will he listen in from a listening device? Should I.C.U allow some presence of EThiopian troops or should they still stick to their original demands of all removal? Should resistance stop for the time being? Should their be resistance at all? Will Ahmad Diriye be allowed to come and are warlords willing to give up their newly found power,extortion, checkpoints and looting? Once one answers those questions, then it will tell you something about the chances of a peace process in Somalia! anyone?

The man is right, grievance doesn't give you the right to blow up trains. But he is also an extremist fanatic himself, who went to war in Ieaq after praying to god and Bush though he received a direct phone call from God. Thus Blair is cunningly tryingly to Muslims with the terrror card. What he really means is that Iraqis, Afghans and others should allow their lands to be occupied, looted and warlords installed. Blowing up a train is clearly extremism, but a kid with a stone challenging Israelis with mass Tanks is also considered an extremist with no legitimate grievance.

It won't work because the agenda of the African Union is decided in Adiss Ababa, by Jenday Frazer( she's a mecenary too) and the US ambassador.Ugandans came on top of war on terror equipment provided by Yanks and then took charge of Muqdisho Prisons were thousands of Somalis were imprisoned by Ethiopians. They also provided political, military and diplomatic cover for an outright Ethiopian Intervention in Somalia. In fact IGAD and AU were the channels used for violating Somalia's sovereignity through her neighbouring states even before I.C.U came to power. You can't streghten political reconcialition by arming and protecting one side against another. Thus Ugandans and Burundians in SOmalia never came to Somalia for peacekeeping; they came to propel, safeguard and protect the security interests of the T.F.G warlords, which as I said have been decided from Adiss via video link to Washington D.C. They can be considered as mecenaries in the War on Terror. I mean who exactly are the Ugandans guarding? the presidential palace, not SOmali civilians against any attacks, violations or war. They are constantly liasing and coordinating and working side by side (although in a covert manner) with the General Gabre himself. So much for the fancy drawn up list and plans to reconcile Somalis.

Northerner, have u tried this? http://livefooty.doctor-serv.com/

' alt='>'> Check out Jenas!

Milton Blahyi, a former feared rebel commander in Liberia's brutal civil war, has admitted to taking part in human sacrifices as part of traditional ceremonies intended to ensure victory in battle. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7200101.stm

I was talking more bout Endurance, Strength and weight training? warya, u play football in your khamees?

Astone Villa have a good manger but they still have a long way 2 go. Everton are probably one of the most improved teams in the premiership and it shows hot sticking with your manager nad building a team over a period of time brings success. David Moyes had one bad season adn they didn't sack him like other teams tend to do. Plus Tottenham are emerging team as well as Mancity, West Ham have all spent more money than Villa and Villa need to strenghten their squad to compete with those teams.

It's called Somaliland not Somalialand. The Somali ethnic group and the Somali state that was formed in 1960 are two different things. So Somaliland has the right to that name as much as any other Somali group.

nothing new in her views, same old, same old........ Islam is peace and better than the Western system, ppl are getting tired of that mantra!

Rageedi fatixada ha ha.

The video is from 1993.

sise 12, font new roman...

quote:have you ever thought of Somalia's ( the ethnic Somalis as a single entity) surname? , yes it's 'Mohammed'. lolllllllll, Saxiib, there are clans in Somalia who don't trace their lineage back to the Prophet Muhammad saw. It seems they existed before Islam came to Somalia. Our good Sheikh Indhacade belongs to a clan( no offense to them) who don't claim Arab lineage but he said to have oppressed some SOmalis with apparent Arab heritage, bal taa nooga waran? how does that fit in to your claims?

quote:We landers have never killed one another so please don't generalize. Southern Somalis or other Somalis have never had in their traits to kill one another. The vast majority of them don't want to slaughter each other. The killing was caused by a major civil war which involved warlords/rebels which took thousands of young men under the wing on the premise of fighting for clan rights. Thus these young men as in many other parts commited gross violations against other human beings. This happened from Sierra Leone, Bosnia to Kosovo. Somalilanders( whatever that means) too particpated in the civil war and some of the clans alleged indicriminate killing. But the issue was solved politically during the clan elder and political conferences. Southern SOmalia didn't get this because the leaders and warlords couldn't agree on power sharing/conflict resolution. Had they done that then perhaps Southern Somalia would have been peaceful like Puntland and Somaliland. The only thing Somaliland and Puntland did was remove the monopoly of power from the people to the government institution and disarm the majority people. The Islamic Courts did this for only six months and look wow Somalis in the SOuth weren't slaughtering each other over clan issues. So again this proves that the slaughtering was being done by warlords and their moryaan militias as oppposed to the average Somali. If people in southern Somalia get a real government they trust they will be ready to hand over the weapons. But if there are warlords roaming around the place, then every subclan will be obliged to hold on to their weapons or if not seek alliances with strong warlords, Ethiopia or armed political Islamist groups. The average Somali young male wouldn't be obliged carry an Ak47 if he saw an instituion that protected him and others from violating their rights. Maybe am too much of an optimist?

quote:Some Somali Clans/subclans are vowed at to act and keep imitating one of those Arab tribes in the Islamic history. It seems that to belong to the prophet's(PBUH) tribe is the Somali clan fuel. You have a point there. One could say Arabs to an extent have influenced us with their tribalism. Plus Somali nomadic lifestyle is very similar to Arab lifestyle. So it somewhat encourages a patriachal lifestyle where one is dependant on simply trying to survive and thus seek protection from a wider family also known as a clan system. I was reading somer research that said Northern Somali Nomads claimed descendancy from the Prophet( saw) family, even though they were least likely to have come in contact with Arabs Muslims than their counterparts in the South. Somalis in the South are said to have come in contact with Arab/Persian Muslims far earlier due to migrations from Arabia during the civil wars over the Caliphate and the Ridda wars. Even though mainstream historians say that Muqdisho was founded by Arabs Persians one of the main subclans in that area still contends that they were the rulers of the city and suprisingly their major clan never claimed Arab descendacy. But your claim that the Somali clan system is fueled by a desire to belong to the Prophets( tribe) is a bit exaggerated. One could say that the true descendants of early Muslim migrants in Somalia are the ones who seem more tolerant, live in multiclan coastal cities and developed a mixed culture which doesn't place a great deal of emphasis on clan organisation than the SOmali nomads and citymen they found in Somalia. There are major clans that don't claim a Somali/Cushitic origin. Thus one would assume that Somalis had a clan system before Islam came to their shores. Whether Islam or Arabs accelerated this would depend on conducting some serious research into the clan system Somalis had before Islam/Arabs came to their shores, something we have very little written information about.

quote:The problem in Somalia today is clan representation, political role models and clan grievances based on previous massacres. We bring the worst of the people to any political conference. A clan won't bring their Sheikh, Doctor or Lawyer to a political conference because he will seem weak compared to the other rival clan who brought along their old hawkish warlord. You see every family wants a nin xoogweyn to represent them. p.s majority of Somalis in Somalia aren't slaughtering each other without mercy.

Intaad dadkii ku tidhi "don't disturb me" ma waxaas baad la soo noqotay?

The Guy is Somal who's been living in Eritrea for past year and picked up their language. So know his penning resistance poetry in the local languages. I am just joking, enjoy

coming ayaan dhow inshallah

hhhhh

Somali clans have existed for thousands of years and I doubt they were in this current state all those years. There isn't a great deal wrong with having clans, there just like extended families. I was watching something on T.V about the crisis in Somalia and one of the aid reps was asked if there was a humanatarian disaster in Somalia and he responded " there isn't a large scale humanatarian disaster because clans are creating networks to feed people and bringing them in their homes". But the problem arises with weaker clans who don't have that support, arms and money. Somalis clanism can be used in a good way and possibly even make Somalis very powerful. See the relationship that Imam Ahmad Gurey had with the Somali clans? Even though he was an Islamic leader, different Somali clans would come to him and pledge allegiance to him. Other times he would liase and sought to discuss events with Somali Elders.During the time of the Prophet saw it was clan elders(in Arabia) who converted to Islam and thus sometimes making large groups of people accesible to the teachings of Islam. The Awz and Kharaj fought hard for the Islamic religion and in Northern Nigeria the Islamic revival and the establishment of the Khilafah in that particular region was established and fought for by the Fulani and Hausa clans. The Ottomans were a group of people from the Othman clan. Knowadays you have young Islamists who think they can bypass the clan system and create some utopian system whereby clans are not even mentioned or accounted for, of course they will probably fail. The problem in Somalia today is clan representation, political role models and clan grievances based on previous massacres. We bring the worst of the people to any political conference. A clan won't bring their Sheikh, Doctor or Lawyer to a political conference because he will seem weak compared to the other rival clan who brought along their old hawkish warlord. You see every family wants a nin xoogweyn to represent them. Today what you have are two approaches: one tries to sweep clans under the rug and tries to portray some utopian culture whereby clanism can be erased, the other bases its lifesupport on tribalism and everything those persons love, hate, kill, destroy and cooperate with is defined by the persons clan. The former is unrealistic and the latter is suicidal. Any future government in Somalia be it Islamic,Secular-Liberal or tribal will have to work through the clan system and account for every clan. I have a dream that one day Somalia will become an Islamic nation of god fearing and brave Clans

Some muslims developed a culture whereby people are introduced to the Quran by going to a bearded man with a stick and a kitaab every weekend. This is the most important stage of a childs development, ie the ages of 7-12, this how they will remember and associate with the Quran. Thus, doesn't this Macalins with sticks defy the purpose of Islam and ultimately introduce a culture which was not part of the Prophet Muhamad saw? I know many people especially those of you(elders ) who studied the Quran will remember macalin dugis giving them good old karabash. If I remember correctly Ayan Hersi was heavily karabaashed by her quran teacher( so she says) and there is another video on the internet of a Somali Brother who was also karbaashed by his quran teacher and then he hated Islam thus converting to Christianity, although he lated came to Islam after spending many years as an evangelical missionary. Even in the West many Somali kids study Quran with a 40 year old macalin who probably doesn't speak a word of english. Also born Muslims from Pakistan, Somalia and Arabia have developed culture whereby one learns/recites the Quran up to his teenage years and then after that Khalas kabiish. You hear people saying "when I used tolearn/recite Quran". These are the same people who shout at their kids to learn and recite Quran, when their hearts have left the recitation of the Quran. In the Somali countryside kids study the Quran for years but never actually learn what it actually means because they can't read or write in the Somali language. So one will recite the quran beutifully and learn many Juz but never understand the words he/she is saying. But then again the Quran was sent down to an unlettered Prophet and nation. check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_6qIdJTD2M What Yall Think?

http://www.hiiraan.com/news2/2008/Jan/uganda_updf_return_from_somalia_mission.aspx Alfred Wasike Saturday, January 19, 2008 Kampala, Uganda (New Vision) - the first contingent of 80 visibly excited soldiers returning from Somalia jetted into the newly refurbished Old Entebbe Airport yesterday. A downpour blessed their safe return from war-torn Mogadishu, one of the most dangerous cities in the world, as it washed away the Somali dust from their boots. The soldiers, clad in brown and green combat fatigues, armed with assault rifles, sleeping bags and other equipment, proudly filed out of the Antonov plane in a single line. They are to be replaced by another 1,600 Ugandan soldiers under the African Union Mission in Somalia, or AMISOM, as the African Union chairman yesterday recommended the peacekeeping mission to be extended for another six months. In a moving ceremony, the 80 marched into parade formation as the army brass played martial music. The contingent's commander, Major Kantinti, raised a large Ugandan flag, saluted and handed it over to the Deputy Chief of Defence Forces, Gen. Ivan Koreta, who in turn handed it over to defence minister Crispus Kiyonga. After the band played the national anthem, Kiyonga passed on the flag to the new commander, clad in bullet-proof vest and crash helmet, Col. Godfrey Golooba. "You are heroes. You have done Uganda very proud. The international community, especially Queen Elizabeth, expressed happiness with your work in Mogadishu", Kiyonga told the incoming group. "As we sacrificed for the stabilisation of Somalia and the liberation of our continent, we lost five troops and eight were injured." He later told journalists in the airport lounge that the Ugandans were deployed to guard the Somali transitional government and government institutions, facilitate reconciliation and help Somalis build their own institutions, especially security. "AMISOM continues. It is pleasing to note that at this time we are being joined by other troops from Burundi. Let me thank our partners like Algeria, Kenya, the UK and France who have been assisting us in this cause," he stressed. Several soldiers recalled that the worst time of their deployment in Somalia was the day when they were hit by an explosion that left five of their colleagues dead and eight injured. "It was a great time serving Uganda abroad," said Maj. Kantinti, tears willing in his eyes. "I am very delighted to be home. I am looking forward to seeing my family again. I am very grateful to my bosses for including me on this contingent. The worst time was when we lost our comrades." Lt. Jamada Mawejje recalled: "It was a very nice feeling being deployed in Somalia to help our brothers and sisters there stabilise their country. It was bad for us to lose our comrades. But as a peace keeper, I know that some people must die for others to live." Cpl Benson Kamukama added that the ordinary Somalis were very nice to them. "They received us well. Working far away from home, the extremely hot climate and the different culture were our greatest challenges." As the AU Commission's chairman, Alpha Oumar Konare, asked for an extension of the force, he criticised member states for failing to honour pledges for troops. Only troops from Uganda and Burundi are in Mogadishu, where Islamist insurgents are fighting the interim-government and its Ethiopian allies. The AU planned a peacekeeping force of 8,000, but has had difficulty getting African nations to deploy soldiers. "To date, the pledges made by member states to contribute troops for AMISOM represent only a little over half of the authorised strength, depriving AMISOM to live up to its responsibilities towards Somalia and its people," said Konare. Burundi yesterday announced it was deploying a contingent of 220 to boost another 192 troops already in Mogadishu. "More than 400 troops have been deployed now, we hope to complete a deployment of one battalion of 850 men by next week," said Burundian army spokesman Adolphe Manirakiza. Konare also accused the international community of failing to support the force financially and asked the United Nations to authorise its own force to replace AMISOM. He asked Somali's transitional government, led by President Abdullahi Yusuf, to adopt an inclusive approach that would appeal to Somalis that reject violence. More than 6.500 civilians were killed and 600,000 people have fled their homes since Yusuf's government, with the aid of Ethiopian troops, unseated an Islamist movement in December 2006. Source: New Vision, Jan 19, 2008

I used the word Bruv all the time, even when I go to my local sikh shopkeeper, "Nice one Bruv". In the case of Africans, they are no different from other people. African tribes fought wars and killed each other, probably even less than Europeans who had a world wide tribal war. We Somalis kept our civil war within our state, but these Europeans brought their tribal war to the entire world on two occasions. Europeans killed each other too and so did all the other peoples in the world. When Japan fought China, who said " Asians are killing their own brothers"? When Jews and Arabs killed each other, who said, " hey stop your all semites"? People in the world who are made of different ethnicities, tribes and religions will fight/enslave/conquer each today and tommorow. So why put Africans on a different moral pedastil? even Haillesallese used to lectur on Africans unity.........