quote:On Ethiopian troops, the Prime Minister said the opposition does not have the leverage to demand an Ethiopian withdrawal without first achieving victory in the reconciliation process. He reiterated his stance that the Ethiopian army will leave Somali soil “only when Somalis make peace among themselves,” at which point Ethiopian troops will withdraw “within 24 hours

OO Islamistska T.F.G iskama celin karaan Ethiopia la'anteed miya? Ethiopians have to leave sooner or later. The long the stay, the more the T.F.G is discredited( as if they haven't already). Ethiopia in Somalia is a blessing to Islamists in Somalia! As for Americans: they have enemies in Somalia. If I was them, amaba waan tageeri laha qofki la dagalama. If it wasn't for Iraq perhaps marines would be patrolling some SOmali cities!

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080312/somalia_talks_080312/20080312?hub=World &s_name=

I don't believe that the FutUH aL Habasha or any other medieval text names the clan of Imam AHmad or Nur ibn Mujahid? So where did you get that infro from Mr Horn!

http://shabelle.net/english/2008/03/12/stabbed-teenager-dies-hospital

I smell wadaniyad....from two nomads on this thread Dubai's national anthem ne1?

M.M.I: Habashi's came to quell a clan rebellion and some rowdy Mullahs. The T.F.G is a perfect entity which is being threatened by destructive forces. There is no occupation in Muqdisho....Habashis haven't killed anyone, they haven't raped anyone, and the T.F.G militias don't make it a habit to loot and rob the public. I tell ya these are all lies being made up by the clanists and the men with red scarfs. Meles Zenawi used to wear a Macawis and even chews khat! Haven't seen his forehead? It looks kind of Somali! We must mobilise our clans and warriors to defend our sacred land and the land our ancestors against the invading army. We will free Kismaayo and L.A and save our people from the ethnic cleansing. Yours sincerely, All committed Yusufites!

May Allah have mercy on him and his family!Ameen

His grandfather was a Muslim turk U work for ken? or just like hIs bolatigis?

Originally posted by me: There are other ways of finding out how old the clan system is in Somalia. The clan system could have had other function. Clan could have started of as a way of organizing the population of regions for the war against the xabash. Horta which one was first islam or clan in Somalia? Clans have existed for thousands and thousands of years. In the case of Somalia, Islam came very early, but it's hard to give a date for the appearence of the clan structure. For all we know it could have gone as far as back as time of Egyptians........ pity Somali lacks a government and stability.......places such as Zeilac and Muqdisho deserve to be explored extensively......

Whether or not Arabs constructed the clan system in Somalia can be hardly proven, due to the lack of real written evidence. I would probably say the clan system existed before the Arabs came to Somalia.....but it might have been accelerated and further engraiend in Somali culture by them. Either that or Somalis were maternalistic people whom took lineage from their mothers( seems highly unlikely). To say the Somali clan system came into existence in the 16/17th century, is a bit late and it ignores the prior references to Somali clans by Arab travellers, as early as the 13th century. Al Idrisi's writings and travels around 1150 names the influence a specific Somali clan that lives around 50 villages, centered around Marka. The clan still lives there today. Ibn Said also attests to this fact as early as the 13th century! As you can see below: quote :on the seacoast is found Marka whose inhabitants are Muslim. It is the Capital of the country of the Hawiya which contains more then 50 villages on the banks of the river branching out from the Nil Maqdishu 69 degrees 30 min longitude 1 degrees 10 min North latitude It is placed on the side of a river that comes out of the Nile of Magdachou and has its mouth at 2 marhala to the east of the town.Out of that river comes an arm that forms close to Meurka a sort of gulf. At the east of Meurka is the Muslim town of Magdachou (madinat al Islam) celebrated in this region whose name Maqdishu occurs frequently on the lips of travelers.... 72 degrees longitude, 2 degrees latitude at the Indian Ocean shore, its harbor offers little security. You can also see during the time of Ahmad Gurey that the clan system is fairly developed, thus making it's development far earlier then the period you claimed. Most of his influence stems from the wide support and allegiance of Somali leaders and their warriors. Subclans of the major clans that you said only came to existence in the 16th/17th century are mentioned by the Yemeni writer of the Futuh Al Habasha. How can those subclan exist before the 16th/17century and the major clan come into existence in the in the period you mentioned?

wats wrong with Oromo? Can u dispute what I say? Clan existeD at that time and way before. I belive some 13th/14 century Arab travellers named a specefic somali clan as inhabiting 50 villages near the city of Marka. So the clan system was already developed at the time of Ahmad Gurey.......

Waxaasi waa ciyaal talk:> Kismaayo and L.A are occupied and Muqdisho is not.............

http://allafrica.com/stories/200803110073.html

Originally posted by Garaad Bari: This clearly shows that the issue is not abt the HABASHI, but qabiilism, tribalism and hatred among the somalis them selves......the p/land, s/land/ G/land, makhir etc are all trying to win the heart of the Habashi rather getting united against them... Any way for the record, does any one has or came a cross the pic of this so called G Gabre???????????????? i just wanna see his face THat is a simplistic and convenient execuse that T.F.G supporters make, in order to rationalise their support for the animals that were used by Ethiopians to occupy southern Somalia.

I wuld luv to stay home and sleep all day.....but I have no choice but 2 go 2 librariga...as somalis call it....

damn.....how bad is the rain and wind in London 2 day? I suppose the trains will well slow 2 day.....

No this time he wasn't( apparently) slapped! The moral of the story is that he is so low, tribalist and incompetent that a None Somali( habashi) is more humane, merciful and caring towards Muqdisho residents. The moral,as I see it is: the habashi general is more understanding towards, " the one clan", then the Somali opponent. You see dhibaatada Somalia...that's how they thinking..Intey is lahayeen odayga wax ka sheega bey habashigi amaneen!... quote:“our Ethiopian forces are not here to oppress Somali civilians, but they are here to fight those who want any order to get established in Somalia” quote:Ethiopian general responded that no businessman would set his money on fire and he told that the public property in the market should not be destroyed

Kan baa ugu daran : During this argument, the sources told Shabelle that Gabre accused the Somali president that he is tribalism calling the forces from the government in the market as tribal militias who want to loot the market and he told the president that the Ethiopian forces can’t be shields to such forces.

quote:while Gabre himself will guarantee that nothing violent will come from the insurgents and the businessmen but Yusuf rejected that. lollllllll@ this report....Gabre was going to stop the insurgency...but the old man somehow stopped him......... They appear to be praising the Habashi general, in order to get on over the old man poor( and sad) journalism I say!

Secret details over a prompt withdrawal of Ethiopian forces from main road in Mogadishu revealed Shabelle Mogadishu (09/03/08) Ethiopian forces who withdrew from Jidka Soddonka, a main road around Bakaaraha Market came after there was row between Somalia’s president Abdullahi Yusuf and General Gabre, the Ethiopian commander in Somalia over a demand by premier Nur ade that forces from the transitional government should withdraw from Bakaraha Market and president Yusuf ruled out that demand according to reliable sources who spoke to Shabelle. These reliable sources confirmed to Shabelle that there was a meeing between Yusuf and Gabre at the presidential place and the meeting was about how police forces recently deployed to bakara market be withdrawn from there though the talks between the two men ended in failure after the president insisted that Bakaraha is a stronghold for the insurgents who oppose his rule and he also alleged businessmen in the market fund the insurgency. However according to these sources, The Ethiopian general responded that no businessman would set his money on fire and he told that the public property in the market should not be destroyed. During this argument, the sources told Shabelle that Gabre accused the Somali president that he is tribalism calling the forces from the government in the market as tribal militias who want to loot the market and he told the president that the Ethiopian forces can’t be shields to such forces. Gabre said, “our Ethiopian forces are not here to oppress Somali civilians, but they are here to fight those who want any order to get established in Somalia” The sources went on that Gabre has told that the business people have a major role in reaching solution in the Somali conflict even mentioning that it was ill-advised to disarm the business people in the first place. Soon after the government took over Mogadishu, its forces have disarmed the businessmen in Mogadishu earlier 2007. These confidential but reliable sources have told Shabelle that Gabre angrily accused the president of waging hostility against one clan. Col Gabre once asked the president during their argument over the demand by prime minister Nur Ade if he can take the full responsibility of the Somali forces while Gabre himself will guarantee that nothing violent will come from the insurgents and the businessmen but Yusuf rejected that. Col Gabre also told that they (the Ethiopians) know the efforts of Prime Minister Nur Ade are part of the reconciliation process and that there is no need to keep forces in Bakara Market. However president Yusuf rejected all suggestion by Geeneral Gabre and that has led Gabre to order his Ethiopian forces the prompt withdrawal from Jidka Soddonka road in Mogadishu where they had been guarding the Somali forces in the market for almost a week. After the Ethiopian forces vacated from Jidka Soddonka, insurgents immediately launched on the Somali forces in Bakara market which led the forces from the government to retreat back after they lost two of their men. Other reliable sources say now that president Yusuf accepted too late the suggestions of General Gabre after government forces were kicked out of the market. http://shabelle.net/english/2008/03/09/secret-details-over-a-prompt-withdrawal-ethiopian-forces-main -road-mogadishu-reve

Somali nationalism and Islamic identity are hard to separate and can often easily converge. This is probably the same with most Arabs. This is logical as Somalis are 100% Muslim (some say 99.8 these days). The notion of defending Arabnimo and Islanimo are invoked at the same times. Turki, Aweys and co would indeed and have described themselves as Somali Nationalists. These men fought defending Somali land in 1964 and 77. But their are considerable differences between this viewpoint and nationalism based on the narrow concept of defending lands, frontiers and borders which were constructed by Westerners. Refer to the misunderstanding between the Asmara group and the some members of Alshabaab. Some members of the Asmara disagree with the notion of inviting foreigner Muslims to Somalia to fight Jihad. Turki and co would argue that there is no such thing as foreigners and all Muslims are one. That is to say a Pakistani, Arab or Chechnyan all have the right to fight and live inside Somalia. The latter is more close to the position of Imam Ahmad Gurey. If Turki and co ever triumph in liberating Somalia, then they would pursue an agressive policy of trying to liberate the Somali ****** region and also all the Muslims within Ethiopia. Those that met Asmara respect the borders of the international community and didn't even mention the occupied ****** region (politically understandable move). Simarly, the ONLF limits its political goals to liberating that particular region and constantly denies attempting to form a state with the Somalia Republic or any other Muslims within the Horn. Turki and co see Ocadenia( and beyond) and the SOmali republic as an extension of Islamic lands. Their aim is to construct a Pan Islamic force in Somalia and the Horn...hence why they carry the Black Islamic Flag as opposed to the Somali National flag and pose themselves with Non Somali Muslims on Aljazeera T.V. Though Turki and Aweys are older, politically wiser and understand the dual historical linkages of Somalinimo and Islamnimo, unlike the new kids on the block, whom see everything associated with SOmalinimo as Paganism! Anyhow, that wasn't what I was referring to. I was talking about the moves to link to him a particular clan/s and modern day Somali nationalism during the late Somali government. Somewhat similar to how some Kurdish seperatists associated themselves with Kurdish Salahudeen AYubi. Jacalybro, some people claim he wasn't a Somali, wuxu aha SOmalilander, the man was born in Awdal de

I didn't say he wasn't a Somali. I said the portrayal of him as a SOmali nationailist or a clan hero( as the last SOmali regime tried to do) was inaccurate. The concept of creating states based on ethnicity didn't exist( to a degree) at that time. Ahmed Gurey was trying to create a super Islamic state which compromised multi-ethnic Muslims and possibly Harar as it's capital. His forces contained Somalis, Afars, Yemenis and Turks.

Much of the evidence indicates he might have been a Somali...though he might have been a descendant of Carab( oo Soomaalida ku dhex barbaray).

Some Somalis tried to reconstruct the image of Ahmed Gurey as Somali Nationalist( in the modern sense), or a clan hero for their respective clan; neither are true!The nonsense above is a good example of that. Also, Richard Burton's writings on Somalia are misleading, inaccurate and fanciful. ps. you're not allowed to mention clan names On this forum!