I like how they always finish with a religous prayer after glorifying the massacre in SOuthern Somalia. Only thing missing from the piece was a reminder that Meles Zenawi is a possible descendant of the King that helped the Prophet!

^^ Please, do tell us how these acts are just mere " propoganda from insurgents"? Why should deem the Somali women, children and elders from Jigjiga and Muqdisho, the ones who reported these attrocities, as liars? Tell us why Xabashi soldiers wouldn't do such things?

Originally posted by MARC: There needs to be a demographic transition. We need to take people from the heavily populated parts of Somaliland, i.e. Hargesia and Burco and other urban centres and relocate them to these disputed territories. We need to put in place a policy of displacement and make sure that somalilanders constitute the majority of the populations in these regions. That way there will be no calls for these regions to secede into their own federated governments. We must not compromise the territorial integrity of Somaliland. A video of this topic will be posted soon. Firstly, if you want start a war on sol, as this thread will shorty will become: post it on the political section. Secondly, did i read that right? " we need a policy of displacement"? I hope that was a slip of the keyboard. That's called genocide in some peoples books! You want to displace poor Somalis, for what? For a line drawn by a white man? ALso, how will you determine who and is an who is not a Somalilander,if ever( god forbid), you get to enact your genocidal policy? war dadyahow, Xita, the ones raised in the West and educated in some of the worlds most prestigious universities baa sida warlord u fakaraya! Soomaaliyey!

Wa nimaanka who said that they had 50 trainers in Somalia........and funny some SOmalis tried to sell us that story on here......another classic one was that the ethio soldiers were really Somali soldiers who had been donated uniforms.... But this is probably the MOST classical : Quote: To furnish him with a bit of history lesson without implying anything else besides straightening the historical record, the Somalia he favors over his own country, was a part and parcel of the Ethiopian Empire as far back as 2000 years ago. 2000 years ago when Somalia was not yet called Somalia, and ****** was called ?Awlat?, Somalia and ****** were ruled as one entity by an Ethiopian king named Mogadishi who reigned under Emperor Bazzen whose capital was in Ethiopia proper. The capital of Somalia , Mogadisho, which bears his name to this day, is a proof for this. King Mogadishi was one of the twelve great Ethiopian kings and prophets who took gifts for the baby Jesus and traveled for two years as far as Jerusalem and Bethlehem , following the star which signaled His birth. Dr. Fikre Tolossa

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Clearly Sharif has made headways and uttered very important words whether he succeeds enlisting as much support as possible from the nay sayers is another matter... AKhi, now the good Sheikh is saying that HE will never talk to the " Dabodhilifs-Mujrims". Rather he's gonna talk to the UN. Another day in Soomaali bolitikz!

Originally posted by Peace Action: Abu, You were defending beheading yesterday, why condemn it now? Answer the question, please. You should admit that shabaab is as bad as TFG/Ethiopia when it comes to serious violation of human rights and worse because they claim to be muslims following Islamic rule of warfare. There are rules of war in Islam and there are rules of war in the world today and you guys brainwashed by shabaab subscribe to neither. So what do you believe. Saxiib, I supported the beheading of the warlord militia? You have any evidence for that? I think you'll find that your confusing me with some other posters, namely: Geel Jire, Kashafa, etc! Secondly, I haven't been brainwashed by any group, since my criticism of all groups in the Somali conflict are well noted and has such I have no blind allegiance to any political group. In fact, Blind following is constantly mocking the Somalis who were massacred by Xabashis troops and dismissing it as " propoganda" and/or " insurgent lies". This is the lowest form of political communication that a Somali could possibly descend to. And, as I have said before attempting to deny what Xabashi troops have done/are doing is actually undermining and giving a bad name to the TFG. Some things are just indefensible! As for "Alshabaab" being as bad as the Ethiopians and TFG when it comes to rules of war: I will not admit that? why? because I don't hold it to be true. You can accuse them of carrying out the Bosaso Bombings, beheading warlord militia, assisinating tfg officials and Ethiopian sympathisers and fighting from civilian neighbourhoods. But nobody( not even Alshabaab) can match the level of looting, checkpoint warlordism,raping and killing of innocent civilians done by the Xabashi troops and their warlord allies. Read the amnesty report or any other it clearly states that rapes and killing of innocent civilians is " notably" or " predominantly" done by Ethiopians troops and warlord militias. I have never heard of any resistance groups looting hospitals, beheading farmer/sheikhs or establishing checkpoints to tax poor Somalis! Koore, everybody is lying because they are clanists and everybodies receiving feeds from Alshabaab terrorists! They're all seccesionists, SOuth-central liars and wacko Islamists. Xabahis troops are our African brothers, and thus would dream of harming innocent Somalis! right? It's all the Wahabis and Arabs, I tell ya! Right? Well, there are w thousands of Somalis in the SOmali Galbeed region and inside Muqdisho, who daily report these attrocities! I'll glady take their word of yours anyday! No amount of waffle or semantics can cover up the brutality of the Woyane troops and their warlord mecenaries! That( defending/denying Xabashi troops massacres) is the lowest form of tribalism and nepotism, and I have no reservations of saying that!

quote:Qorran, another 56-year-old woman from Mogadishu, described how after her family went to bed, she went out to collect charcoal. While she was out, a rocket-propelled grenade was fired at her home, completely destroying it. She said, 'When I came back, I couldn't find my house.' Her husband and sons were all killed in the attack. She told Amnesty International, 'If grief is going to kill anyone it's going to kill me.' Guled, aged 32, who said that he saw his neighbours 'slaughtered'. Guled said he saw many men whose throats were slit and whose bodies were left in the street. Some had been castrated. He also saw women being raped. In one incident, more than 20 Ethiopian soldiers raped his newly-married neighbour when her husband was not home. "Deer Hunting Knife?" quote:In one case, a 15-year-old girl found her father with his throat cut when she returned home from school after Ethiopian security forces had swept through her neighbourhood. Deer Hunting Knife? Other cases in the report include: A 56-year-old woman from Mogadishu called Haboon said Ethiopian troops had raped her neighbour's 17-year-old daughter. When the young woman's 13 and 14 year old brothers tried to protect their sister, the soldiers beat them and gouged out their eyes with a bayonet. The mother fled. It is not known what happened to the boys. This girl is in a coma as a result of the injuries she sustained during the attack. New PR from the Insurgents? quote:Ceeblaa, a 63-year-old woman from the capital's Wardhigley district told AI she saw three men from her neighbourhood being rounded up by Ethiopian troops. "The next morning, she saw the bodies of the three men on the street," the report said. "One was strangled with electrical wire. The second had his throat cut. The third had been chained ankle to wrist, and his testicles had been smashed." More "PR" from the insurgents?

^^ So you're not denying it does does happen? But in effect your saying Somalis used to do it, so heck Xabashis can do it know as well? BTW, it's not just Xabashis that loot and rape: the TFG Soomaali moryaans are also @ it. And inshallah, whoever his doing rape and looting, Somali or Xabashis: waa lala xisaab-tami doona! @Kore, Woyane troops "slaughter", rape and loot Somalis both in the Soomaali Galbeed region. There's no denying it, no matter how much waffle one regurgitates about insurgents and "government". And your denial( of clear facts) rather than your condemnation is indeed good PR for the other side! @Peace-action, Alshabaab slaughtered prisoners of war who happen to be soldiers- road bandits. Wrong as that may be, there's no comparison between that and Ethiopian forces taking women, children and young men from their houses and hacking them to death!

So it's cuz he's black( ot at least mixed race)?

I still don't understand the difference( policy wise) between Hilary and Obama? Why all the fuss about Obama( particularly from Somalis)?

I though u were talking about Somaliland!

@Baashi, a rather simplistic reading of the events that occured in those sorry summer nights of 2006, wouldn't you say! Many people say ICU should have stayed confined to "Muqdisho", not even Benadir! I'm looking for someone to clearly " analyse from all angles, the wisdom of staying confined to Muqdisho and how this would have prevented the subsequent war that would have occured! To me it seems like a non-event! As for making a peace deal with one wing of the TFG, clearly that would have been utterly useless and irrelvant. The hawks of the T.F.G, Warlords and Ethiopians, don't forget Uncle Sam and UN, all decided that Ethiopians soldiers would invade SOmalia en masse. Thousands of Ethiopian troops were gearing up for a full scale war and had made bases in major Somali cities. Even the Ethiopian parliament authorised a war against the ICU. Meanwhile, Alshabaab and others were entertaining the idea of a long guerilla war in Somalia! How can agreeing a peace deal with one wing of the TFG compensate for the fact that 40 000 or more troops had entered your country in preperation for war? Clearly, no one in the T.F.G had the strength( many wante them there) to tell the Ethiopian forces to leave! So any hopes of the TFG and ICU reaching an understanding were out of the window! The crux of the matter is that the " Islamists" in SOmalia could have never won over the Ethiopian or Neo-cons( since those entities had decide on war in July 2006). The only thing they could have done was accept foreign troops in Somalia and/or hand over some of the wanted men in Somalia( something Sheikh Shariff couldn't do that)! In other words, they were given the choices of capitulating or surrendering. They chose the latter! As for taking other towns outside of MUQ, one can say that was probably good military thinking on their part, and probably somewhat naive in some aspects. Declaring war on Ethiopian troops? Probably a great deal of wisdom lay behind that decision( militarily and politically). Although Somalis will have to live with the humanitarian consequences of that decision for a very long time! Attacking Badioa? A strategic and military blunder! p.s the seven day ultimatum and the threats about Adiss Ababa were in December 2006! When the war had already started and all peace talks were over!

Going back to the topic: can Baashi or garowe online for that matter explain: 1. How the ICU could have avoided a full scale war with the Ethiopians and their neo-con backers? And how they could have "convinced" the that their Cimamads meant peace? 2. How simply limiting themselves to Muqdisho could have indeed been a good military and political move? Of course, this is all in the past, but it's important that moral philosophers bring forth their evidence and fully explain to the Ummah what paths( for the greater good) could have been taken, rather the merely resorting to the mantra of, " this and this would have happened( if only they took my advice).

Originally posted by Seekknowledge: No they are not lies. Rape, looting, killing..... all true but just wondering are you sorry the ethiopians took over the job the somalis were doing for the last two decades in the name of clan? Feeling nostalgic perhaps? Are you going to punish the people who did that... the victims know them by name so it shouldn't be hard to find them and punish them. Oh no I forgot you crowned them Sheikhs. Immunity achieved. Rape, loot, genocide then just call yourself Sheikh all sins forgiven. You repeat the same argument, again and again! Is it the last 17 years that is making you support the Ethiopian occupiers? What are you saying two wrongs make a right? Or you just using that's as an excuse? Cuz, the way I see it: yall just making tired and endless excuses for waxay xabashiidu sameynayaan! Xabashiis were also killing Somalis in the last 17 years, lakin iga maxaad iga u amanaysaan? It's something cajiib, walahi!

Originally posted by Koora-Tuunshe: quote: and the presence of up to 3,000 Ethiopian troops in the country. 3000 troops, that's what Meles Zenawi said!

Originally posted by somalipride: quote: Anyway this topic is for Puntlanders to name Exactly my point!!! So what you want? a d.n.a test on SOL?

Could the situation have taken a different route? Could the Islamist leadership show the governments of Ethiopia and the West that they were not, in fact.............. As much chance as Saddam Hussein had convincing the yanks that HE never had weapons of mass destruction! The thing is that when empires go to war with little men, its either surrender or war. Of course, the experts, philosophers and intellectuals will tell that is not the case and the world would have been blessed with peace.... if only the world had listened to their ideas before events occur! A classic example of that is the quote above!

Piracy was almost eradicated during the brief rule of the ICU. It returned, along with checkpointism, looting and daylight rapes, since the Ethiopian tanks brought the T.F.G to Muqdisho. In any case, France has no right to take these pirates and try them in our Paris, even though are criminals! No amount of hastily signed deal with the colonial, Sarkozy, can hide this fact!

Somalis chose those people: ex jabhad leaders, clan elders and former warlords to bring success to their fiefdoms and their tol. So it's a case of the chickens coming home to roost! Ignoble actors are removed today, tommorow another "ignoble actors" will replace them. I think it is unfair that these men should be singled out, since the leaders and mentors of the " ignoble actors" are in Muqdisho and hundreds ( possible thousands) of Somalis, not 4 0r 10, have been taken from Southern-Somalia and sent to Xabashi dungeons! The system is at fault, not the people!

^^ apparently he went to France to Bargain for the French to deploy troops.u know.....to help fight the ciyaals with the cimamads of mass destruction. funny thing is that France demands the release of the French "aid workers"..who were caught trying kidnap Africa babies, yet when an African commits a crime off Somalia, they wanna take them to Paris for some sightseeing! Cajiib.......

There was a recent conference in London about youth crime. They have some of the contacts of the friends and families who were victims of youth gang violence....if you write Somali crime on facebook, you'll find the group.........

http://allafrica.com/peaceafrica/resources/view/00011515.pdf read the entire report^^

what's maankaaga? but, seriously, is there a point to this article? We already know what ever1 thinks about the Ethiopian involvement, or should i say dulaan!

All sides have allegedly commited war crimes! But we all know the group that continously rapes women, detains innocents, sets up checkpoints, loots hospitals, cuts innocent peoples throats and opens fire at civilians. THat is, the Ethiopians and their allied soldiers! No amount of hogwash or petty excuses can deny that! As for af Soomaali: adigu maxad shaqo uga dhigatay in aad Xabashida mar kasta difaacdid?

Defending the indefensible again, are we, Mr Kore?