Originally posted by J.a.c.a.y.l.b.a.r.o: I remember Siad Barre crossing the border to Kenya and shouting "I'm still the legal president" .... Yes, you can still say "Somaliland is ours" but reality will always be different. I have seen some who still consider him the legitimate president of Somalia.

Originally posted by *Ibtisam*: ^^Mogadishu Society. A new concept championed by nomad “Me” iyo Mija. I see. Thanks for the clarification. Best of luck to the Mogadishu Society in their struggle against the anti-peace forces and their quisling allies.

Originally posted by J.a.c.a.y.l.b.a.r.o: Yeah, i know the M Society rules Africa and Europe ,,, What does "M Society mean?" Sorry I am not well-versed in these new names

Originally posted by Meiji: Abu, Foreign = Foreign Also, foreign Jihadi who blow themselves up in heavy population centre cause the same bloodshed and terror as the bombardements of foreign soldiers of AMISOM. Foreign terrorists who plant roadside bombs, blow themselves up,and launch mortar attacks from population centre's are as bad as AMISOM troops. These power-hungry factions do not care for Somalia and its people, why else would they bring in foreign soldiers to Somali soil? Not just that Abu Mansur wants them to settle in Somalia, marry Somali women and produce more children...all these while burning the Somali Flag :confused:

Originally posted by Gabbal: quote:Originally posted by Paragon: ^Adeer Dhih Dhagaxeed haddaad tahay maxaa caqli oo ku gelaya? Waa waxba! Halkaa ha inoo joogto. Wise of you Paragon. The whole topic seems very juvenile at best. If there are some juvenile things being said in this discussion, it sure ain't coming from me. General-Duke and his gang have been spewing endless vicious lies against the Aideed and USC and even reality and i have punctured them with facts instead of following them in their fantasy journey. I am using this forum to inform people on substantive issues and on the facts and why should I stop doing this simply because it scares some people?

Originally posted by wacdaraha_aduunka: Duke war maxaa ku helay? Ciyaal cusub oo malaha af soomaliga iyo taariiikhda soomaaliyeed waxba ka ogeeyn baa ku helay Ciyaal saqiirka meeshan iskugu timid halkaan bey siyaasad cirsaaqad ka dhigteen intey caano cabi lahaayeen. You are a useless twat in this discussion. Try getting education first and then aim to having a debate. Your useless insults just prove what a useless twat you really are

Originally posted by Emperor: Mr me is one confused fella, now he's mistaking Puntland for Somaliland... Saaxib Puntland spilled blood and spent gold for the return of the Republic, a unionist to the core, land of the free and the home of the brave... As for your point regarding Mogadishu, how did Mogadishu safe-gaurded the unity or paid any effort for the return of the republic, contrary to that I thought it was the black mark of the nation that kept the rest walk in limbo... Which Mogadishu are you talking about, the confused multi-faction, multi-ideology, half-maxakim, some Alshabab, Ahl-Sunna waiting here, clan elders group, multi-dimentional civil soceity groups, half-PM Nur Ade of TFG, half-Yey others like Bakara market Business men of no no to all and nothing but null and void, all this post 2006... And don't even mention the two decades before 2006, the city of death, hell bent and the save-haven of the most brutal warlords and Moryaaan Somalia ever witnessed.... me, bal come back and tell us how Mogadishu did better in helping the return of the Somali unity, governance law and order and overall the well being of the former republic than Puntland and Somaliland.... Oh boy! I am startled at the endless absurdities Only somebody with a very superficial understanding will make such incongruous statement. History is awash with endless tales of the North-eastern people cooperating with the entire legion of Somalia’s enemies, from the Italians, British and lately the Ethiopians. Apparently, your glorious Puntland has once again done a very poor job of educating you of these very basic facts and realities. Just ask for the evidence and I will drown you in a sea of shame. I will never have you get a free pass on history. You can count on that. The entire culture of warlordism you seem to criticize was engineered and created by people who call Puntland home. The SSDF was Somalia’s first rebel group after-all and Abdullahi Yusuf, that humiliated quisling, the founder of Puntland State, was its head. Considering the fact that your beloved Puntland houses the biggest Piracy movement in the world and an inflation rate that can compete with Zimbabwe, it is always laughable to see Puntland psychos acting all self-righteous about their condition. Delusions of grandeur don’t change the utter misery in which thousands of Puntlanders live. Instead of trying to lecture the “South,” it would be helpful for you to look into these facts. Why look at the “South” in isolation when this immoral lust for criminality and evilness is so wide-spread? In what universe is Puntland “free and brave” You empty fantasies are just that. Don’t mix them with reality. In the real world, Puntland can’t even take one step without consulting the Ethiopian regime. The endless extraditions of innocent Women and children from occupied Western Somalia, arrests of Islamic Scholars and monthly visits to Addis Ababa flouts your weak reasoning. Try being masters of your own destiny first. :confused: Things aren’t as black and white as you make them out to be- there are indeed some very entrenched problems in the Mogadishu and multiple interpretations of what the future holds and how to get there. Of course there are violence and division and they have made some very bad decisions in the last 18 years. But then there are also some equally entrenched shared sympathies for common causes such as the defeat of the warlords and the successful resistance against the Ethiopian invasion and the gang of quislings, certainly the people of Benadir has shown during the last 2 years that they understand their destinies are tied and have similar aspirations and so forth. Things are rarely so simplistic that they can be reduced to one angle. Being realistic/proud means being well-informed-about both the good and the bad about your people, not to think of it in fantasy terms. Puntland/Somaliland being able to live in relatively peaceful compared to Mogadishu is not some sort of metaphysical reality of the universe; it is the result of concrete factors. Intelligent humans question their “leaders” and their situation. Not cheerlead for them blindly

Originally posted by Meiji: Xiin and co, Its widely known: Aweys and his Al Itixiad side fought Aideeds USC forces at the battle of Araare. Why are people denying him that? Of course, the USC offensive against the fleeing regime was a just war and this is proved by the quick victory of the USC and the humiliation of the regime evinced by their admission to Kenyan refugee camps as refugees God is a just God and he administers justice against those who commit injustice

Originally posted by General Duke: Twisted Logis adeer : Mr looter never had issues with Ethiopia his was about a clan politics and Ahmed AbdiSalaan was Ethiopias main agent. Anyhow as long as you are now on board and willing to stand up for the interest of the people. Peace, governance, property rights and dignity even then Ahmed Diriye himself will have to return the looted home he lived in these two long decades. With all due respect, your laughable simplistic H4wiye-Bashing conspiracy theories and on Nabadoon Ahmed Dirie are plainly a product of a diseased mind. When Siyad Barre gave other peoples’ lands to his own group and looted the national treasury, it was a development scheme. Your arguments are always simplistic and infinity dim-witted ps I strongly object to you calling me "Adeer," I expect you to not use the term on me again :eek:

Nabad X3, Your pigeon-holed reasoning continue to humiliate you further. Here are some more education for you: 1) President Aden Abdulle Osman AUN and the Civilian government built the Army and the National Airline 2) President Aden Abdulle Osman was the first African President to be flown to an African Conference with his own jet and operated by his own people (Somalis) 3) They increased the National Army to 500% to a strength of around 20 thousand. Know your history before you parade around your childish arguments

Originally posted by General Duke: Twisted Logic: Ahmed Diriye is self appointed clan clown and your sentiment are his in every way. As for Ahmed Abdi-Salaan you the one who mentined his name and he was Ethiopias puppet in Somalia as you are aware. These two individuals and yourself represent an axis of nothingness. I do have hope if you are now gonna support the state without anymore fake clan outcry masked as religious fervour, even today Xasam Dahir Aways admited his little warlord Indacde knows nothing of the faith. A breath of fresh air, I hope he would stop his saber rattling from Asmara. Of course Ahmed Dirie is to you a clan clown because he exposed the evil propensities of the Ethiopians and their Somali political prostitutes and even faced torture and detention in Ethiopian camps in Mogadishu. I don't expect you to ever praise him. In all honesty, the people of Mogadishu can do without your fake tears. We are not interested in them, disorganized we might be, but we are a proud race and we don't bend over to Ethiopian pressure like your glorious Puntland. Instead of whining about Mogadishu, you will be better off trying to change the mafia group that controls your glorious Putland

Meiji, Their group historiography has indoctrinated them with tales of Aideed and the USC stealing justly and honestly earned properties and farms and thus the endless cries about the people of Mogadishu. Aideed destroyed their group’s devious and scheming ploys and dislodged the dictator. This historic defeat still rings loud and clear in this group’s hearts. Spewing venom against any-one who shares klan name with Aideed and the USC is natural for those disillusioned forever by the defeat and humiliation of the evil regime and its base.

Originally posted by NABAD x 3: Bluh Bluh Blah Blah. Just answer the question, Which one of the two pictures is better? A) Top one (Siyaad Barre era) or B) Bottom one (Uncle Aideed's era) So pls say your answer full stop. :eek: Yawn! poor guy. This creature thinks that by repeating the same decimated lines over and over he might actually convince somebody. What a sad and lonely quest of a never ending defeat and self- humiliation. Siyad Barre shot Somalia in the beaches of Jazira and the cities of Somaliland . Aideed buried a dead body.

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^loool. You are twisting yourself saxib, I never said Mogadishu is not ready, because the average man was ready for peace in 1991. Its the special interest your who destroyed the capital and the south. I am interested in peace and governance, have been all along when you have ans still are fighting for anti government and looters Inc, and using clan issues, for you opposed Yusuf for nothing else other than clan and that cost many lives, your Ahmed Diriye tendencies are clear and we dont need to waste time on them. Its good if you are now ready for peace and governance. I know that you dont have any more stake in our capital than anyone else here. Thus you support my stance that we should give support to the government for the sake of the people As I have in 2004 untill now, lets support the government. Hahaha, dragging Ahmed Dirie and Ahmed abdisalan and the people of Mogadishu in every statement you make shows your klan fixations. Beyond that it proves nothing And by the way, twisting facts is something you do on habitual basis. In fact, your approach is outright lying and falsehood. The entire demographic spectrum of Mogadishu is united and fully supports this government and in the final analysis this is what really matters. In the future, the Ethiopians will pay the price for their evil incursions into our holy lands and as will the groups that have cheerleaded for them.

Originally posted by NABAD x 3: quote: the 21 years of the former dictator stands out like a Dutch girl in bikini in the Riyadh Mr very Twistet logic. Adeer Isku xishoo, its an insult to compare Siyaad Barre with Uncle Aideed and Co. Show me something they built for the last 20 years and I will show you a big lier, I can not believe in these day and age we have people comparing Siyaad to the USC era, one has built, the other one dimolished it, one has decorated the other one looted it, one built roads, Universities, Hospitals, Army, the other built Isbaro, Ku nasiibso, and Mory4n. look at these pic and tell me what it says. This is the Xamar Siyaad Barre left. Ant this is the Xamar Uncle Aideed left. Which one is better? First off all, I take strong exception with you calling me 'adeer." In the future, I expect you to discontinue it. Now, Siyad Barre started this culture of brutality , nepotism, corruption, massacre and injustice. Aideed AUN was simply a reaction to such brutalities albeit counterproductive. By the way, on the picture you have posted: 1) The Church was built by the Italians 2) The Arch was also built by the Italians 3) The building in front of the white one was built by the Sultan of Zanzibar and later finished by the Italians What exactly did Siyad Barre built

Originally posted by Paragon: ^For once I must say I agree with the General. He makes alot of sense. The government must be given the chance to succeed. Or there will be no government and further civil war on the people of Xamar. No-one disagrees with General-Duke that this government must be given a chance, what I disagree is with his crass generalizations of the people of Mogadishu as some sort anarchist bacteriods who can't function in a modern state. It is important to understand the trajectory of the discussion.

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^Twisted logic: your tepifies your response. I am not bothered what you say about the Duke, he is not the topic. 1. If Yusuf was bad, Abdiqasin was bad, Ali Mahdi was bad must Sharif Ahmed also be bad. This whole war against AU and international community does not help Mogadishu and its people, they mever declared war on the AU, they dont care, its a political group who find never ending excuses. The children and women will die and property destroyed Now you offer what? The same old twisted logic, my intention here is simple lets all support this government, lets give them a chance to succeed and lets hope the capital returns to normal. No more Al Shabaab, Hizbul Islam, Clan elders and so on. Replace them with local government, police, civil servicem, central bank. All staffed by the local poulations young and educated. Let the government return the Airport, Seaport to local hands and create jobs for the young and unemployed. This is my position and one held for a long time You are living in fantasy, you fought no one, defeated no one just killed more of your people. What say you Twisted one You are trying to have it both ways man. Yesterday, you were cheerleading for the Ethiopian troops in their massacre operations in Mogadishu and today all of a sudden you have grown a human heart. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You lost all credibility when you supported quislings and Enemy-Number-One of the Somali people. Nevertheless, I will still reason with you. Almost the entire population of Mogadishu supports this government and have done numerous protests in support of the current leadership. The business-class, educated elite and average Joes in Mogadishu are firmly behind this government and this explains the sharp reduction in violence and the return of the Somali parliament and other minimal institution back to the capital city. Just yesterday, the opposition has proved that it is willing to accept this government if some very reasonable conditions are made. The road ahead is indeed paved with hope and optimism. So, clearly, your arguments that the people of Mogadishu are not ready for peace or stability is unfounded and come from a very shadowy corner of your mind. The opposite is in fact very true. And talking of facts keep in mind that they won’ become any less factual because you try to smear the people of Mogadishu.

Originally posted by NABAD x 3: This is why stability is feared. 1) lots of people will have to handover the houses they occupied and called home for the last 18 years. 2) Many powerful people will have to handover the farms and government premises they called home for the last 18 years. 3) Mogadishu will again become a multicultural, cosmopolitan city, and that makes alot of people shifty and nervouse. 4) There will be no private airports, ports, Isbaaro, and saqajaanimo. ...the emotional/psychologi cal constipation continues Same can be said about the elaborate campaign to use state money to build houses and appropriate farms belonging to poor people and handing them over to groups that came from Gedo and Bari. The selective choosing of specific episodes in Somalia’s history to highlight injustice is quite hilarious. Yes, some people in Mogadishu have arbitrarily engaged in vigilante missions to win back some of the lands and properties usurped by the former regime. In the history of injustice in Somalia, the 21 years of the former dictator stands out like a Dutch girl in bikini in the Riyadh. :cool:

Originally posted by General Duke: There are some here who are promoting the line that AU peacekeepers and the governments agenda for restoring security is bad for Mogadishu society. Why ? For one if Mogadishu stabalises who will get the jobs, the reconstruction contracts, who will get educational programms, health and other benefits from a stable recognised government? The people of Mogadishu. Thus stop the fake cries all you are doing is keeping this population in bondage. In 1991 it was That clan In 1993 it was the Americans and UN Then it was Ethiopia now its AU Every time these clowns prolonge the agony of the people. Its time to let the government do its job and let the people be free to work and live. Typical example of General-Duke’s weak reasoning. Once again the disciple of falsehood makes crass generalization to push forth an agenda of division that is inherently rooted in hatred and fear. His argument is simple-if the people of Mogadishu make a progressive step criticize it and call the cup half full. If a political/social opportunist makes a political miscalculation, use it as a weapon to make sweeping statements on entire group and shed false tears. Such tactics are stup!d and hilarious at best. African Union troops based in Mogadishu are simply an extension of the brutal Ethiopian occupation of our country and engineered originally to supplement the Ethiopian troops. Their original mission was never to re-build Somalia. Essentially, these troops are in Somalia for 2 major reasons: 1)To raise their international profile 2)To get much needed cash-flow to their economy Somalia should not be begging bowl of regional countries with some very devious plans/agendas. Somalia does not need help from Burundi and Uganda, countries that are home to some of the poorest populations in the World. Somalis have proved that they can effectively tackle their problems as the 6 months of peace engineered by the Islamic Courts, Mogadishu Business-people and the public have shown. Going back in history, your melodramatic arguments aside, there is no evidence that these sorts of “peace-keeping” missions work. Just because your tunnel vision can’t see beyond one angle doesn’t mean that others should share your crippling constraints.

How do you defend a government that is hell-bent on shooting itself in the foot? You can't.

Originally posted by Abdinasir Kadawo: quote:Originally posted by Meiji: Layzie, What wounds? Again, this topic is about Aweys and Indha adde, and religious warlords in general. Why on earth would someone involve Gen.Aideed, USC, 1991 in this topic? Please, get help because this is not healthy. What is upsetting you my friend? Basically goodir agrees with you; you call Aweys and Indhocadde for warlords and also his remarks suggest me that he is in same line as you. So what is the problem? Is it the association with Aideed, USC? com'n, don't tell me you are one of those ppl who call Aideed a Mujaahid. What an irony of fate! Sh Dahir Aweys, the man who took up arms against the USC and Gen Aided AUN during the battle of Kismayo when the MSB regime was on the run, is now being touted around as a cohort of Gen.Aideed and the USC, by the same people he helped rescue. People almost always bite the hand that feeds them

Originally posted by rudy-Diiriye: layzie, 90% of nomads are still suffering from the 90s drama!! how do u explain the spineless addictions to dispicable warlord uncles. It is called emotional constipation. A generation of certain groups were raised with the fear of the "USC/people of Mogadishu," and brought up with some very nasty notions of good and evil. Seen in this light, some of the actions of these certain groups makes much sense.

Originally posted by [Waranle]: quote:Originally posted by Twisted_Logic: Gen Duke, As a staunch supporter of the former Somali quisling Abdullahi Yusuf you are catching at straws and that is expected. Up until the last minute of his 15 seconds of fame, Abdullahi Yusuf and his supporters were pulling off one stunt after another. He refused to accept Nur Ade’s cabinet, refused to endorse the firing of the Mogadishu mayor, refused to accept the outcome of the Djibouti Peace Talks and went as far as to call it a gathering of one clan and in the end “fired” his Prime Minister and named another one. Until the last day of his expected official booting and fall from grace, he was making retarded illogical claims of going back to Mogadishu and working with his “new” Prime Minister. In the end, like all quislings he came back to reality and had to accept the utter reversal of fortunes, courtesy of the tactical political maneuverings of Ahmed AbdiSalan and PM Nur Ade. Still, Abdullahi Yusuf “resigned” because of health issues eh? Try challenging me on that and I will dump articles from both local and international press here with tones so poisonous that it will humiliate you just as much as your idol. ( For Example) Unlike you, I can distinguish important real concrete facts/news from fluff and deranged fantasies ( you know your fantasies about Abdullahi Yusuf resigning because of health issues and “Yusuf’s acolytes in the cabinet”) Once again, the facts are making a mockery of your claims. Abdullahi Yusuf’s sudden fall from grace and ensuing humiliation whereby he was forced to become a refugee in Yemen and the sudden rise to power by the man he called a terrorist in 2006 keeps him and his supporters in permanent emotional constipation. It is not just the infinite retarded teenagers on Somali Forums but also his base-group’s political leaders and media that can’t stop crying about Ahmed AbdiSalan and Nur Ade. But make no mistake about it, Nur Ade will either go back to his home in London and retire with grace and honor or re-join the UN and Ahmed AbdiSalan will either become the Somali ambassador to the UN or wait for his ultimate ascend to the top echelons in Somali politics in the future. He has time by his side. Ps, I am still waiting for you to tell me what power “ these many key players” have in this government. Ps, Somalia is today in the right hands and for that I am immensely proud and happy for the work done by Ahmed AbdiSalan and Nur Ade and the work that will be done by this new administration. Twisted logic; you deserve a better nickname; may I propose "intelligent mind"?. On a second thought never argue with tribalists aka quislings aka laughing stock on SOL because some may not notice the difference between thee and them. This brady bunch has been on record defending the amxaaro lackeys at the behest of innocent somalis. They don't care about somalia(s). They have been seduced by tribalism. They are intellectually challenged to understand the fact that we live in anno 2009. In their minds their somalia is one that will be based on tyrany. They deviate from truths and facts. They cannot independently analyse a phenomenon without seeking the mandate of their sick tribal warlords inept on committing gross human rights abuses. If you oppose them (using classic argument techniques) you are termed as somebody who wants to leave somalia (notice how good old somalinimo points of view are called somaliland stance), supporting warlordism, looting and moryanimo (this is how those from somali proper are called). Thanks for the kind remarks Gen Duke and Emperor sweet-coat the political and personal failure of Abdullahi Yusuf and expect us to see him as a great savior of the Somali race, no matter how hilarious their expectations are. I will continue to take apart their ridiculous interpretations.

Gen. Duke and Emperor, With all due respect, your reasoning is based on a very questionable logic and members should be aware of your desperate disingenuous tactics. You are so desperate that you are willing to go against your very own statements in order to paint a non-existing reality. For example, throughout the Abdullahi Yusuf and Nur Ade feud, you have run around every-corner of SOL littering every-where articles and opinions that claimed that Abdullahi Yusuf will have his way and burst into a joyous celebration when Abdullahi Yusuf named a new Prime Minister just days before his own resignation. Yet you are forcing us to believe now that Abdullahi Yusuf resigned because of “health” and “international pressure.” Yet Gen.Duke was insistent that the International Community had no role in the Somali process while the power struggle was going on. Here is a snippet of a bold misleading statement he made in this very thread: “it was the international community that put pressure on the former President” Yet few months ago, while the power-struggle was going on, this is a statement he has made: “The international community does not care for Somalia and is not involved as much as many belive. It has its won problems for now, with the slide of the world economy and the fight against terror.” http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/t opic/9/16715 “It has been done, Ethiopia, Al Shabaab, EU, NYT Can do nothing. The Presdient has delivered on his promise and the new PM is a popular figure within the Parliment and will get many things done insha Allah.” http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/t opic/9/16715/2 One can see how self-conflicting and contradicting these statements are. Emperor is on record on this very thread too questioning the abilities of the former Prime Minister Nur Ade yet when he was appointed, he celebrated it calling it a great hope: A Shining CV out there, may be a good reason to be optimistic about the future... http://www.somaliaonline.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/t opic/9/13208/2 The failure of such simplistic logic is quite obvious Personally, the status of their reasoning and logic is of ZERO interest to me. People change views and reasoning quite often and I make no judgments on them. Yet, I think, members should recognize the psychology of these 2 individuals. Abdullahi Yusuf was a criminal quisling and a shameful proponent of using enemies of the Somali people to accomplish his political goals no matter the long term consequences. Such tactics has led him to languish in Ethiopian jails during Mengistu’s regime and has capped his 40-years of political prostitution as a refugee in Yemen in a virtual house arrest. Gen. Duke and Emperor can wage endless collective assault on facts to dictate their version of history to us. Members should understand the importance of this discourse and place it in its proper context.

Emperor, You and the rest of the supporters of the Somali quisling have to come to terms with the fact that Abdullahi Yusuf is spending his last days in this world as a refugee in Yemen without any accomplishment or achievement to show for his 40+ years of political prostitution; meanwhile Ahmed AbdiSalan has time on his side and as it stands now his resume is quite impregnable and has earned the respect of the Somali people….(those that really matter ) Abdullahi Yusuf and his supporters on the other hand will remain being emotionally constipated over their sudden fall from grace and humiliation and will continue to moan about their fortunes for-ever….such is your fate. You can sweet-coat a piss all you want...in the end it will still be a piss