^^^ I don’t think there is a better way of doing it, sister. The whole topic is about the deficiency of the Islamic scholars of Saudi Arabia. Those starting it have it in mind to besmirch the characters of these scholars. Just step back and hope for the best I say. Salafi seems to be doing a good job of holding the fort for now.

^^They should just cancel one of the two words and save us all the hassle, man. This topic is full of young optimism it makes me sick. Friends? Friends for life? Arrggggggghhhhhhhh. :eek: Why is this always a case with the female of the species? They all swear undying love for their friends then they get married and the others drift away. Or, worse still, get jealous and cancel the long held pledge of not *****ing about their “best” ever friend behind her back. That’s when the saying that “ a dog is man’s best friend” comes true. Heh. Makes me matag matag. :mad:

Cech Czech Republic Goalkeeper (2) Silvestre France Defender £5.0m (1) Mellberg Sweden Defender £4.0m (8) R Kovac Croatia Defender £3.5m (0) Bridge England Defender £4.0m (0) Did not play Gravesen Denmark Midfielder £3.0m (8) Luis Figo Portugal Midfielder £6.5m (3) Ronaldo Portugal Midfielder £5.0m (5) Zidane France Midfielder £6.5m (29) Allback Sweden Striker £3.5m (5) Morientes Spain Striker (8) A total of 69 I do hope Steve G is sold, man. With the money we get we can buy three or four better players. :rolleyes:

Ah well, the boy didn’t receive a yellow card and he actually played well. But, I’ll still insist that England will not win this championship. If they do win it, it will only be out of luck (lots and lots of it). They scored four goals last night yet their game was not as exciting as the Portugal versus Spain game (and that was a boring game and all!). On the creative part, again, I’ll still say Scholes is the most creative in that team and because of last night’s performance, I’ll add Rooney - to make a total of two living creative English players. Frank Lampard and Steve Gerrard are as creative as my granny, saaxib. They’re both bulls that think being skilful means spraying around forty yard passes all over the pitch and running around like headless chicken! I hope Chelsea pay the money and we (Liverpool) manage to finally offload Gerrard and get back to playing our famous game of pass and move. Enough of all this posh root one football already. :mad:

Heh. O ye of little faith. On their form so far, it’s very feasible that the Greeks, should they meet the English or the French, will trounce either till kingdom come, saaxib. Both teams have been short on inventiveness and endeavour. The French strikers keep getting on each other’s way and hardly get a touch of the ball. Zidane is going to run out of steam sooner or later, while Pires needs one good crunching tackle to make him shy away from the game. The English too have their own problems. They have no creative players apart from Scholes (who keeps getting substituted because of his asthma) and their attack consists of Wayne Roony only. He’s very likely to receive a yellow card tonight (if not a red as the Croatians already promised). If either team meets the Greeks in the next round, I’ll be rooting for the Greeks to give these prima donnas a through thrashing. :rolleyes:

^^ What part?

The point that you both miss in your analysis is the childcare part. If both the husband and wife work, then someone will have to care for the children. Childcare costs are as much as most people’s average salaries these days. Now, unless the wife works and earns much more than the husband earns, the logical thing for her here is to stay at home and look after the children rather than squandering that money on some nursery or child minder that will fill your child’s mind up with all sorts of Western hocus pocus! On the other hand, and I’m talking about myself here, if my wife goes out to work and earns more than I do, I’ll be more than happy to sit at home and look after the kids. How hard could it be? As long as we’re not talking about an infant less than a year old of course (I’m not designed to breastfeed)! :rolleyes: As for the house buying bits, where does the “usury” part fit into all of this? Better play it safe and rent you a council house.

The Holland versus the Czech Republic game was one of the best I’ve ever watched. It’ll go down in history as a great game. It was end-to-end stuff. It had five goals, thirty-five attempts on target (and many more off target), great runs from midfield, last ditch defending and a few superstar players at the peak of their game. Even the referee was great for once! I’ll be surprised if such a spectacle is repeated again in this tournament. In that game alone we’ve seen why Pavel Nedved is the European player of the year and why Chelsea had paid that much money for the Dutch winger Arjen Robben (sp?). I’m not a betting man but if I were, then I would bet that both teams would not make it to the final. Heh. I’m going for Greece to make it to at least the semis (they’re in route to face the English or the French – neither had set the world alight so far). They’ve finally won a game in the European Championships (their first win ever), they’re staging the Olympic games and hopefully they’ll go far in this tournament (has to come in threes – like Buses, right?).

It’s a term favoured by psychologists, scientists and many others (Charles Darwin is an example). I’m not sure I’ve used the exact expression and it’s not certain that such a phrase can be ascribed to anyone. So, lower that cynical eyebrow and halt your suspicion. :mad: As for being a vague or ill-defined sage, rest assured that I pride myself on that small fact (ill-defined being the operative word here of course). :cool:

At least this kid loved my joke.

A man suspected his wife was seeing another man, so he hired the famous Chinese detective, Chen Lee, to watch and report any activities while he was gone. A few days later, he received this report: MOST HONORABLE SIR: YOU LEAVE HOUSE. I WATCH HOUSE. HE COME TO HOUSE. I WATCH. HE AND SHE LEAVE HOUSE. I FOLLOW. HE AND SHE GO IN HOTEL. I CLIMB TREE. I LOOK IN WINDOW. HE KISS SHE. SHE KISS HE. HE STRIP SHE. SHE STRIP HE. HE PLAY WITH SHE. SHE PLAY WITH HE. I PLAY WITH ME. I FALL OUT OF TREE. I NOT SEE. NO FEE, CHEN LEE. Maybe I should have posted this on the poetry section.

Good coherent article this time but in no way does it address the scholars and their shortcomings! Still, lets stick with the House of Saudi and the various gripes we have with them for now. It seems that the West also have a problem with the Al Saud’s government. In every documentary and every news report we see we hear them criticising the way the Saudi government is run. They want to enforce Western ideas on the kingdom and are encouraging different dissident factions to rebel against Al Saud. I know and you know that the Saudi method of government is not ideal and is not serving the people well. In fact, strike that, it’s adequate for its people but the foreign policy is what’s being contested here, right? Fine, lets assume there is a coup and the House of Saud is no more, what sort of alternative will we have? Remember, if there is ever going to be any kind of coup in Saudi Arabia, it’s not going to be a random thing perpetrated by a few disgruntled soldiers. It’s going to come from within. It’s likely to be one of the many princes of that kingdom who will organise this revolt. Which one is it going to be? Is it going to be one of the religious princes that disagree with the government’s foreign policy (and there are many of those) or is it going to be one of the “modernises”? When change does occur, as it must, what sort of political landscape is it going to resemble? Will Saudi Arabia withdraw and isolate itself from the world or will it become an Arab liberal democracy in the mould of America and Israel? Do we actually want any of that? In this world of political games, treachery and splinter Islamic movements, who’s right and who’s wrong and why are the Saudis being singled out?

^^ Why am I leaning to his side or why I’d want him to cut down on the rage? Not sure what you’re question is, brother! I find myself agreeing with him because he seems to back his arguments up with sound evidence while yours, without wanting to sound patronising or anything, are meagre opinions with no back up at all. Not wanting him to display his anger and disgust (I’ve noticed that he’s very short tempered) needs no explanation. But, what the hell, I’m going to lecture away anyway. What he forgets when he’s arguing with someone on this site, that this argument is not a one-to-one type of argument, there are others reading and watching these exchanges. Others that might not be on the same level of understanding and knowledge as he is (I believe I’m one of those)! Using angry words and an aggressive style of argument will make those people turn their backs on him even though he’s right. I’m more than sure he can think of several ahaadeeth and ayaat that address anger and its influence on the listeners. PS I assumed the question was directed at me.

Stop walking on eggshells guys. Some guys like to marry a stay-at-home type of wife. They’ll tell her in advance what their idea of a marriage is and she’ll either agree or disagree. Some women also like to be a stay-at-home wife and they usually meet their match in the man they marry. On the other hand, some women don’t approve of staying at home. They want to fulfil their ambitions and have a successful career. They usually marry men that agree with that way of life. Birds of a feather flock together, different strokes for different folks and all that. I personally I’m more than happy for my wife to stay home and look after my kids. I told her this on the day I married her and even though she was working at the time, she still agreed to it. Go on girls, work and have your fun while you’re single but on your wedding day, you’ve got to present your husband with your P45 as proof of your dedication to that marriage. PS For those not in the UK, a P45 is a form that gives details of an employee leaving work.

It is a very precarious volition. What shall be your abode should your instincts err? Many Zen-Buddhist practitioners can proclaim the self-same reason. Heh. Here we go again down those dark alleys! I’m a simplistic kind of guy, I trust my instincts and my instincts all strongly point to an existence of a higher being (like I already said, could not find a better translation for the word FETRA, maybe you could help here). Where I differ from the Zen-Buddhists is in the fact that I’ve accepted and submitted to the will of Allah (swt). All the questions regarding the existence of a god, which might follow this “submission”, become worthless and superfluous in my opinion. Told you it was a tricky topic.

I’ve got to admit that in this particular debate I seem to be leaning towards Salafi’s side (if only he’ll cut down on the anger – not for the sake of his adversary but rather for the sake of his audience).

Darman, I’m not questioning your “hadeeth” or anything but it would have been more helpful if you tried to attribute it, saaxib. Had it been an article from a website, the moderators on here would have been worried about copyright laws, plagiarism, etc..(Well, maybe not the guys here but most other websites would). Sahal, what’s with the obsession with the Saudi government? Sometimes it’s good to criticise things in the hope that your criticism will lead to some sort of change. But, in this case, the Saudis can’t read your words and it all comes across as the grumblings and gripes of an angry man, saaxib. Why RISK falling into sin over something you’re not 100% sure of and have no power to change? No offence intended (to both of you).

Sahal, the Saudis did condemn this war even if they had prior knowledge of it. The points the brother made above all stand. If in doubt, I think we better say nothing on wheatear some of these guys are traitors or not. Salafi, if we’re being ignorant saaxib maybe a little gentle persuasion will be more beneficial to us than mere rants! Most people shut their ears when they feel they’re being attacked.

Again, my original question still stands; what exactly will that achieve? A withdrawal of American and British troops from Iraq? What next? Civil war? It’s Catch22; those troops will have to stay now. There is no other choice.

This jalbaabis you speak of, is that the Indian twirly sweet or are you talking about something else? ** hopes it’s something else** North. You’re right he was born and raised there but left school before finishing the eighth grade! He learned all knew in prison (including Latin!!).

But you're so young, dear. No need to die for freedom. He was only talking.

Whoever gets that job will have to invite me for lunch sometime. I’m round the corner from Victoria Street. Mine's a large Pizza please :rolleyes:

^^ He was one hell of a speaker. Amazing when you consider his lack of any form of schooling!

The many Arab satellite stations are falling over themselves trying to report all the American abuses and expose them to all and sundry. The fact that most of the American media have their own agendas does not mean that there aren’t any other mediums of news coverage that don’t work and strive to show all these abuses. Still, even when the truth is reported it does not make an ounce of a difference to anyone. Humans in general suffer from severe bouts of apathy. You’ll hear the news, you’ll rejoice or weep and then you’ll switch the channel to watch the next episode of whatever reality show being broadcast at the time. This happens even in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those that work hard and campaign to improve things have their voices drowned out by the bandwagon crew who attempt to hijack things and use them to their advantage. In all of this though, what I can’t get nor tolerate is the idea that by better informing those in the West, things are going to improve! Why should they? Their main interest is in keeping these countries in check. Human rights, morality and consciences are tools they use only when it’s beneficial to them. You want them to stop all these abuses? Renounce your identity and embrace their religions, saaxib (thought not!). ** Switches channel to check on the latest Big Brother bust ups **

As the wise Bob Marly once said “ Don’t you rock my boat ‘cause I don’t like my boat to be rockin”.