^^^Rudeboy and Abu Hamza in the same cell? I can just imagine it, blud. Rudeboy: So what you saying, Abu? Why dem guys put you in da jail like dat, blud? Abu Hamza: It’s a Jewish conspiracy to demean Islam and deprive me of my freedom of speech, son. Rudeboy: seen, blud, seen. You knows what you can do, blud? You should start writing hip-hop lyrics in prison, blud. Dere was dis rap artist once, famous one, blud. Dey sent him to prison because he was smoking weed day said, but really it was because he was black, ya get me? Amyways, dis rapper wrote a great hip-hop song, blud. It was about police brutality and the white man’s continued oppression of da black man, blud. You is like Rodney King, innit? Write a song, blud. Abu Hamza: I don’t write songs, son. Sit down and keep quiet, you’re giving me a headache. Rudeboy: Sorry, Abo. I’s only giving you advice, blud. You’s got to write a song so da world can hear about your problems, blud. Amyways, we in prison now, right? We should become Muslim again like Mike Tyson, blud. Dat will put our faces in the newpaypars, ya get me? Den when da television guys come to interview us, we can lick dem wid our new tune, ya understand? We’ll be well famous, blud. But we have to change our names you know. Abdi and Abu Hamza is not a good name for a band, ya get me? How’s about “Rudeboy and Hookhandâ€, blud? Dat’s a wicked name, man. when we get nuff fans to listen to our songs, we can tell dem all about da brutality and you can do some preachin, blud. I know you tink I’m a Rudeboy and know nothing about Islam but da youth of today will listen to me, blud. Da girls tink I’s buff and da boys tink I’s cool, ya get me? Dey will listen. I will help you spread da message, blud. Now lets start writin dose lyrics, blud. Do ya want me to do a hip-hop beat, blud? Bom bush bom bush..dey put hookhand in pri son..dem guys did it for no rea son...he told me just listen to me s on..we’re on earth to fulfil a missi on..Bom bush bom bush..we’re not jewish or Christ ian...we already made our decisi on..Bom bush bom bush.. Come on Abu sing it wid me, blud...Bom bush bom bush...

The conspiracy theories are all good and well, saaxib. But, who exactly is killing whom? Are there any American soldiers fighting in Darfur? The same applies to the Bin Saud and Attaturk analogies you made! Lawrence of Arabia did not go and plant the idea of Arab nationalism in the mind of the Sharif of Mecca. These ideas, differences and squabbles existed for years prior to the arrival of the Brits. The British only helped them along for political gain. Both sides were getting something back from each other. Similarly, in Turkey, Sudan, Egypt, Kuwait and Iraq, the leaders of these lands all had their own agendas and were happy to grovel to the west for help. How long before someone somewhere starts blaming the tribal problems in Somalia on the West?

Who is on the offensive? Peace? In the Lebanon conference the participants (Arab League) adopted a resolution put forward by Saudis, in it they offered peace to Israel and vowed that they will normalize relations with Israel. Brother, you sound as if the Muslims are on the offensive! Baashi, It’s not a case of being on the offensive or not, saaxib. Yes, Israel occupied Muslim lands, yes they continue to humiliate and kill our fellow Muslims and yes they are backed up by the biggest super power the world has ever known. But, despite all of this, their “attacks†on the Muslims are very subtle and follow international conventions and laws. We on the other hand, keep on beating that loud drum of war while making no gains whatsoever! Like you, I don’t have any concrete solutions. But, I believe it’s time we changed our methods and tried to play the game differently for a while. What’s there to lose? Dignity? Pride? Power? We’ve lost all of that more than two centuries ago. Truth Seeker, You’re still not saying anything new or different to what the Imams in mosques up and down the Muslim world have been saying every single Friday for decades now. Yours though, is a bit more confused than theirs. They at least preach unity and ask Allah for victory and strength. Their “sermons†are more educational and are performed as a reminder for people rather than being a blue print for future conduct and action. To have a Khalifa is a great idea. It means that we’ll have a untied ummah, means that our decisions will be made by one god-fearing person and that those decisions will be made to the benefit of the entire ummah. Alas, I fear that you’re putting the cart before the horse again. For in order to have a Khalifa, you’ll need to have a consensus amongst Muslims to choose that Khalifa and give him the “baicaâ€(loosely translated as “electing himâ€), wouldn’t you agree? Now lets assume you agree to the idea that in order to establish a Khalifa we will need to have the majority of Muslims agreeing and willing to forfeit their national sovereignties for such a noble aim. If these are the conditions whereby a Khilafa can be established, wouldn’t it be better for Hezb Et Tahrir and others working towards the establishment of the Khilafa to focus their energies on bringing the Muslims together rather than wasting their time “exposing†the West? This is the only solution to our problems, it is radical but then when Islam first came it was seen as radical we as Muslims need to stop looking to the west for the solution but rather the Islamic soltiuon. I agree with that point. We really should start looking for an Islamic solution to our self-inflicted Islamic problems. We also need to stop blaming the West for all our ills. The slogans, war cries and continues shifting of blame have been going on for years (still goes on in most “intellectual†Muslim media). We know it’s broke, when know it needs fixing, we know Islam is the answer, what’s the next STEP?

Heh. Love the use of the word “allow†there. :rolleyes:

Kowneyn: If you disagree with everything they write, find it offensive and are shocked by their "ignorance", why are you replying to their threads? Why not just ignore it. You and many others have already stated your view points on many previous threads. With all due respect to all concerned, this topic is tiresome. Topics can be silly ones, gossipy ones, educational ones or childish and idiotic ones; This one is beyond childish. Nur, do you actually do this to antagonise people? YOU KNOW THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LISTEN OR AGREE WITH YOU, GIVE IT A BREAK PLEASE. I always enjoy your topics Nur but in this instance I think you're trying to flog a dead horse. Nobody is going to benefit from this topic and many people are going to get offended. Why be responsible for such trouble? Saaxib, you're not going to be judged on other people's beliefs. If you felt you needed to preach and show people the "true way", I think you've done more than that in the past few days, now it would be wise to let them make up their own minds. Having read the news about your business partner (raximaho allah), I actually think you need to take time out from SOL for a while, saaxib. Come on, people, agree to disagree and move on, don't drag us all down the dreadful swamp of insults and counter insults. Baashi, good luck with your peacemaking efforts, saaxib. ** Thinks about faking a tantrum and pretending to exit SOL **

As to what we can do in the meantime, again Islam goiverns this, it is not for us to decide. There is a concept in Islam called sbar and tawakkul, as painful as it is this is what is rquired whilst working for the return of Al Khilafah - patience and trust in Allah (swt). Words are great, saaxib but how do you turn those words into action? You describe the concept of “Sabar and Tawakkulâ€; I’ll agree with the Sabar part but what we have here is Tawaaakkul (as in thinking of solutions then hoping that they’ll happen on their own without any input from us) rather than Tawakkul! Like I said, we’ve got a problem that needs to be dealt with urgently , sitting and waiting while lamenting lost pride and dreaming of future victories will not solve our current predicament. Although I don’t agree with anything Osama Bin Laden and his follower’s do/did I can at least see that they’ve tried to bring about a solution to this problem. What is your practical solution to this quandary?

Well, by all means, we should work towards establishing a united Muslim nation (call it Khilafah if you will). But, this is a process that is likely to take decades (if not centuries) to achieve. In the meantime, we are still weak, the West is still controlling us and Israel still rains supreme. We’ve already tried fighting them in 1948 and 1967, we lost! I know that not every Muslim country took part in those wars but those that did were more than enough to deal with a small nation like Israel and raze it to the ground. They didn’t. For the past 50 years the Palestinians did all they can to dislodge this virus in our midst, they too did not succeed either! Like they say, “To the victor the spoilsâ€. So, what’s wrong with peace with Israel? The Palestinians, those closest to the action seem to have accepted it now. They saw that the stalemate benefits Israel more than it benefits any of the Muslim nations. Because while we’re busy fighting losing battles, the Israelis are building up their nuclear arsenal, crying to the world about Muslim (and Arab) bullying and painting themselves as the victims of this conflict. Wars are not always won by brute force, cunning and diplomacy also wins you wars. Today we’re weak, we might as well submit, act meek and bide our time while pretending to cooperate. Don’t call it peace; call it a Hudna (temporary ceasing of hostilities). One thing is for sure, if we carry on down the same path we’ve been on for the past 100 years, nothing is likely to change.

The solution to Israel is Jihad and this will not be waged until we have a sincere leader that rules with the kitab of Allah and the sunnah of his messenger. So, what you’re saying is that we first have to sort out the Khilafa then turn our attentions to Israel? Fine, What’s to be done in the meantime? Attempt to do peace with Israel and ease the burden on our brothers and sisters there or keep things as they are and stay as a thorn in the side of Israel? I like your ideas and agree with most of them but they’re only words that don’t offer anything to deal with situations as they currently stand.

Today, RudeBoy is outside the Masaajid with his boys standing around him in a circle. A few passers by see the scene and decide to join in out of curiosity. Rudeboy is trying to preach to his friends. He starts by saying: Bismillahi al raxmani al raxeem, listen to me, blud. I’s used to be a big time thug, blud. I’s used to break into houses, bully Indian boys in Southall and steal sweets in shops, ya get me? But alxamduliallahi, I’s stopped all a dat, blud. I’s fixed myself and straightened up my ways, blud. I’s still a thug but only wid people who are not wadaads like me, blud. Now I’s pray five times a day, you get me? Sometimes, I’s want to pray fifty times a day but Xaaji Abukur told me I’s don’t have to do dat and dat only five is enough. Today, I’s want to show you da right way, blud. Da way to be a good muslin, blud. You’s got to stop being ceyal sooq, you’s got to stop smoking and chewing jaat, blud. You’s got to start praying, being nice to people and fighting for Islam, blud. You’s all big boys, ya get me? You’s got to start acting like big boys, ninyaho! I’s was watching CNN on TV last night and in da news, dey showed some Arab girl wid xijaab, blowing herself up like a firework and killing enough yahoodis, blud! I’s was shocked, ya get me! Why is a nice girl wid xijaab, killing people, blud? I’s asked Xaaji Abukur and he said she did dat because she was defending her country from da yehooda, blud. He told me dat every muslim has to fight da yahooda and da cadaan people to defend our deenta, man. I’s said to him, “but how can we fight gaalada when dey is stronger dan us, blud? We only have old qori when dey have big bazooka, man!†I didn’t have to wait for his answer, blud. I remembed da guy in the Matrix and how he fought da strong agents and mashed dem up. Dat girl dat blew herself up was like dat guy in the Matrix, blud. I’s hope you’ve been listening to my advice, blud. Da next time a gaalo or cadaan people come to attack our town we have to fight back, blud. Blow yourself up, man. Kill dem invaders, kill dem dead, ya get me? Wa salaamo caleekom, blud. Rudeboy says: if da commamad fits, wear it blud.

508, is it that much different from working in Cambodia? Or New York? Or, or, or.... If you feel “safe†go for it and if not, stay put. Good luck either way.

The Ummah needs a sincere leader that holds fast to the truth, implements Islam and allows its dignity to be returned. ?Indeed, the Imam is a shield, behind whom you fight, and are protected?. Forget about dignity, saaxib. A drowning man never worries about his clothes getting wet. Whether we like it or not, the state of Israel EXISTS. The Muslims are weak and divided. The dispute amongst ourselves and with Israel only serves to make matters worse. Thus Muslim countries therefore should clearly reject this call to disarm and rather develop and advance their military capabilities. This reality however will not happen as the Muslim world is led by puppet rulers and dictators that take their orders from the West; they will clearly gladly accept Israel as President Musharraf of Pakistan stated "The debate should be serious. There should be no emotionalism of the extremists. What is our dispute with Israel? We should think." (on the possibility of recognising Israel). 'O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies (i.e. disbelievers and polytheists, etc.) as friends, showing affection towards them' [TMQ 60: 1]. 'So be not weak and ask not for peace (from the enemies of Islam), while you are having the upper hand. Allah is with you, and will never decrease the reward of your good deeds' [TMQ 47:35]. General Musharraf, despite being a servant of the West does ask a valid question. Any chance of trying to answer it?

The ducking and diving in this argument is amazing! It reminds me of the opinions the American Nu-conservatives keep putting forward every time they’re challenged. Are we talking from a political viewpoint or an Islamic one? As I said earlier, the capturing and killing of civilians has no political gains for Iraq. Now, if these guys were kidnapping people, killing them, beheading them and blowing up every little building in Iraq to have some long lasting political advantage, things will at least make sense. But, what advantage do they seek? They want to eject the Americans out of Iraq but they don’t advance any alternatives for when the Americans leave. They have no visible plans, no obvious leaders that will take over and no apparent public support. So, when you look at things from a political angle, you can see that these guys’ aims are only short-term ones and are of no use for the Iraqi people. Pride seems to keep them going not a sense of responsibility. If we look at it from an Islamic point of view things start getting muddled up a bit. Are they doing it for the Sunnis, the Shicas or the Kurds? Why are they kidnapping and killing “Muslims†when there is 200,000 “infidels†right there in the middle of them? As with the discussions we’ve read here about Shica/Sunna and the differences between the two, people don’t take the time to think; Are you a Muslim that truthfully FEARS Allah? Can you quantify that fear? Are you always right and do you have some sort of receipt that guarantees you entry to JANNA once you die? I suspect most of those reading the above questions and attempting to answer them will probably reply YES to the first and NO to all the rest. I also suspect that you already know what the point I’m trying to make is! But, just in case you don’t, the POINT is, if you’re not sure of your own fate and know that this fate rests on your ability to avoid making sins and mistakes, why are you risking it all for the sake of a pointless contention? If you were right in your argument, your gains will be very small (since those you disagree with are not likely to change their beliefs), but if you’re wrong (and don’t be too stubborn please), your LOSS will be beyond measure! I believe the above applies to simple arguments on discussion boards and serious wars in distant lands. The principles are the same; are you 100% sure that you’re not committing a major sin?

I was looking forward to his story, Sue! Why did you have to go and spoil it now? :mad: Somebody has to tell me a story.

I stand corrected.

Cajeeb! Very interesting, saaxib. Don't expect me to join in though. Waxaad ka fahmayso ba eska yar. gaalada markay yedhaahdan caroorto mala'ekday(angels) hadalkeed ayaay fahmaan so mad maqlin? anba af somaligaan qoro caroorta kaleya fahanta.

Hi Curly Sue, I'm not sure what stage you're on now but I'm way way ahead of you. I'm trying to suck my boobs but this silly plastic tin keeps getting in the way. If I have to guess, and following the same theme, I'd say you've got a plastic bag attached to your feet. :rolleyes:

'waxaasi waa been cad' I'm probably about to display my ignorance here (enjoy this rare occasion while it lasts, people) but wouldn't you equally use a similar phrase when trying to say that an item of news is correct or clear? Waa war cad? :rolleyes:

Ther by NO means will b a way for you to drag us( spectators )into this mess of yours. I always said that when I grew up I want to be like Johnny. Johnny is my role model. Oh MOMMA!!

Surely you realise that this is not an option determined by Somali truck drivers in Iraq, saaxib!

Heh. Waar he was a truck driver working for a Kuwaiti company. His links to the Americans would have been very distant (to say the least). He’s not the only one working in Iraq. What is your alternative? For people not to go to work in Iraq at all so we can score some weak points against the Americans? Saaxib, forget the Americans for a second. Lets talk about the Iraqis and the fact that despite the occupation, life still has to go on. Electricity still needs to be put back to pre-war levels. Running water still needs to be provided. Food items, medicine, oil and a million and one other items that we usually take for granted will still need to be brought into the country. If all these guys stop working there, the Iraqis will starve and be in a worse state. What are they supposed to do? Leave these things at the border so that they will not be accused of supporting the Americans?

I have no plastic can on my head! :mad:

^^^ Of course I’m not going to see you going to drive a truck in Iraq, saaxib. You’re a European fat cat. You don’t need to drive a truck in Iraq. But, what if you were back in Somaliland and you failed to get your dream job in the “hay’ad†and your local Dhabshiil branch told you that your usually generous inadeero in Bolivia had stopped sending you your monthly “biilâ€, what will you do then? $200 day driving a truck in Baghdad city would not sound that bad, would it? :rolleyes:

We also need to mount our own ideological counteroffensive. The commissioners recommend that the United States should be much more critical of autocratic regimes, even friendly ones, simply to demonstrate our principles. They suggest we set up a fund to build secondary schools across Muslim states, and admit many more students into our own. If you are a philanthropist, here is how you can contribute: We need to set up the sort of intellectual mobilization we had during the cold war, with modern equivalents of the Congress for Cultural Freedom, to give an international platform to modernist Muslims and to introduce them to Western intellectuals. They’re planning to write the agenda for us to follow. Are there any realistic hopes of resisting such an onslaught when it happens? How?

I’m really starting to get scared by some of the arbitrary fatwas being dished out on here! I’m not particarly bothered about the nationality of this guy, I suppose his capture gave us a chance to address and talk about the situation in Iraq (probably wouldn’t have happened if he was of another nationality). I feel sorry for him and his family in the same way that I would feel sorry for all those innocent people being caught out in the conflict in Iraq. May Allah ease their pain. Now we come to the topic of these insurgents! As is the norm in the Islamic world, whenever something major happens, we resort to conspiracy theories. It’s a Jewish conspiracy, the Mosad has sent its agents to Iraq and instructed them to kidnap Muslim workers (and behead them if necessary) to muddy the water and turn people against the noble Iraqi resistance! Or, maybe it’s not the Mosad it’s the CIA! Far-fetched stories, wouldn’t you say? Now lets try another tack, lets look at those “sympathising†with these groups and condemning Muslim workers who go to make a living in Iraq (How does that differ from seeking work in America?). The argument being, that if you’re a Muslim then you should not be working for and helping the occupying forces. Their belief in this point is strong their resolve is unmovable! Imagine a thousand of these guys finding themselves in Iraq right now, how many would still have that opinion? How many would change their minds? And, more importantly, how many will take up arms and use force to deter fellow Muslims from “assisting†the occupying forces and their henchmen? We’re all frustrated by the situation in Iraq (and the whole Islamic world). We can’t stomach our obvious impotence and weakness. It’s natural to feel some form of elation when the underdogs strike a blow through the hearts of tyrants. An example of that was the dancing Palestinian woman and children in the streets of Gaza and the West Bank when they heard about the events of the eleventh of September! Those events didn’t really do anything to change their situation. They didn’t impact on them favourably at all! Yet, they were “happy†that it happened because according to some warped logic, it showed that the “Muslims†were finally hitting back! “Taste some of your own medicine,†they were saying. But, is this way of thinking helpful to our cause? Do you hit back just for the sake of hitting back and temporarily restoring our hurt pride? What is the long-term plan here? What do these insurgents/resistance fighters and Mujahidin aim to achieve apart from ejecting the Americans out of Iraq? Is there a long-term vision here? Is there a short-term one? The Iraqi people wouldn’t apply to work for the police force, American companies or the army if they had any other alternatives. Right now, and it’s really a sad thing to admit, the Americans are their only hope. In a practical day-to-day sense it’s the Americans (and their “collaboratorsâ€) who are fighting crime and tackling looters and thieves. They’re the ones keeping the “peace†amongst ordinary citizens and attempting to make the place look as if it has some form of governance. Why are these insurgents not doing more in those areas? Hamas, Fatah and the guys from Al Aqsa Brigade manage to do all of that in the occupied territories even though the Palestinian Authority has it’s own police force. If these “insurgents†have a bigger goal and plan they need to display it in their actions pretty soon. So far, they’ve been wielding the stick but where is the damn carrot? :mad:

Welcome saaxib. Since you're able to post on here already it sounds to me that your application has already been accepted! The only rule in this site when new people arrive is for them to tell us all a very interesting story. Choose a day and a time to tell your story and tell us the details in advance so we can all gather round the SOL fire and hear you out. Few pointers: If you want to get into the good books of people on here try to vary your style..sometimes add a couple of Sawahili words here, a couple of Arabic ones there and when you're really being deep and meaningful, end your threads with a somali proverb. This is not me talking, saaxib. It's the voices in my head! Shut up, shut up and let me tell he guy a few things. No, you shut up and get out of my head. We each decided to talk to you privatly, saaxib. I need some sleep